TL, funny I never read about it. The link you gave is dead on my computer, am I doing something wrong.

InnocentByStander did.

StrawMan........I was not referring to that statement. You switched the argument. Newport said to name one case of oral rape that did not involve a weapon such as a gun or a knife and I did it. People say, "Name one. Just name one." and even if you do they won't admit it.

Obviously, IMHO, you have never been the victim of a police setup.

Obviously you have never actually worked on the inside directly with police officers over a long period of years.

The fact that you "don't believe ANY of the players would be in a worse position" for having coöperated just shows that you have never personally seen what actually can happen -- sometimes -- to naïve people who think just like you do.

You can pontificate about this all you want, IMHO, but it is obvious that you've never seen it from the inside. You don't know what everybody who has ever worked on the inside knows from long personal experience -- that there are just about as many cops and robbers among cops as anybody else. And that goes for DA's too.

It's not about hiring strippers, it's about how they reacted when the stripper party went bad. The whole team's reputation is sullied from the broomstick joke/threat and the racial slurs because the players who made those remarks are cowardly hiding behind the Blue Wall. The code of silence they adopted in protection of one another is what led many people to conclude the players are morally deficient.

But how, then, can you defend Nifong's behavior, conduct, speaking, and the lack thereof since the election? If he has half the faith in her that all of you have shown on this board, he should do something, say something, NOW.

But do you have a son? If so, have you asked yourself how you would feel if he had been wrongly accused of rape, and particularly the rape charged in this case? If you don't have a son, how about a brother, or father, or husband? Would you want any male in your life to have to go through what the accused are going through, based on the AV's accusations, and damnall little more?

Actually, I am well aware of the workings of law enforcement - from the inside. If the people with whom you have experience are the norm, we'd be seeing a lot more suspected wrongful convictions than we do. The truth is most people plead to lesser crimes than not only they are charged with, but than what they actually, often by their own admission, committed. Look at the accuser's "night on the town." She fully cooperated [once the police chase was over ;)] and was treated more than fairly. She made a wise decision.

Look at the accuser's "night on the town." She fully cooperated [once the police chase was over ;)] and was treated more than fairly. She made a wise decision.

I don't want to keep talking about this, because it is off topic and nit-picky, but niether InnocentByStander nor you ever pointed out an oral rape carried out without a weapon.

If you and InnocentByStander want to play that game, fine. Sodomy is not rape. Sexual abuse is not rape. Once again, no one was charged, plead guilty, or was convicted of rape in the McDonald's case.

I am dropping this subject at this point as it has nothing to do with the Duke case.

Newport said to name one case of oral rape that did not involve a weapon such as a gun or a knife and I did it.

People say, "Name one. Just name one." and even if you do they won't admit it.

The State of Ohio, Appellant, v. Jones, Appellee.

[Cite as State v. Jones (1997), ______ Ohio St.3d ______.]

Appeal from the Court of Appeals for Montgomery County, No. 14649.

In the early morning hours of February 3, 1994, Teressa Robinson found herself abandoned by friends in an unfamiliar neighborhood of Dayton. While searching for a telephone, she encountered Andre Jones, defendant-appellee, who offered to help. Instead, he led her to a nearby park, struck her in the face, and commanded her to perform oral sex. Robinson complied out of fear.

..... again forced Robinson to perform oral sex.

..... Jones contended at trial that all the sexual contact was consensual.

The jury found Jones guilty of two counts of oral rape, ...

The court of appeals affirmed the convictions.

Bissey said he saw the "skimpily dressed" accuser leave the house between 12:20 and 12:30 a.m., but then heard her say she was going back inside to retrieve a missing shoe.

The Durham AV's forced-blowjob story is harder to swallow (heh) because she alleges that she put up a fighting resistance.

The incident in the McDonald's is irrelevant because the guy didn't put his dick at risk. (So I gather from comments here; I haven't viewed the video.)

The Ohio case *is* relevant, but note that the victim submitted under duress without a struggle. The Durham AV's forced-blowjob story is harder to swallow (heh) because she alleges that she put up a fighting resistance.

Instead, he led her to a nearby park, struck her in the face, and commanded her to perform oral sex. Robinson complied out of fear.

"The victim's four red polished fingernails were recovered inside the residence consistent to her version of the attack. She claimed she was clawing at one of the suspect's arms in an attempt to breath (sic) while being strangled. During that time the nails broke off," the police statement said.

COSBY: What did she say that the men said to her in that house?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE [accuser's father]: She said they were making racial slurs. They was calling her (BLANK) you know and all of that. She says she remember that while they were beating her.

COSBY: What else did she describe about what it was like in the house?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did tell me she thought she was going to die. She said she thought they were going to kill her.

The crime of oral copulation doesn't require the victim deep throat the guy. It depends on the laws of the state. In California, penis pass the lips is sufficient evidence for a conviction.

If I were a wouldbe rapist confronting a resistant victim who is being held down by two accessories because she is unwilling to submit, I wouldn't want to put my naked penis anywhere within snapping distance of her mouth.

Yet, rapists do it all the time.

Yet, rapists do it all the time. It's commonplace for a rapist to stick his penis in the mouth of a resistant victim while others are forcibly restraining her?! What makes you think so?

Even if the guy in the McDonald's put his thing in her mouth, it's not analogous.

If a woman is being forced, by only one man, to orally copulate him, she could chance biting him and running for her life. If she is trapped in a bathroom with two more attackers, I doubt many women would consider the "bite and run" tactic a viable option.

The incident in the McDonald's is irrelevant because the guy didn't put his dick at risk. (So I gather from comments here; I haven't viewed the video.) The Ohio case *is* relevant, but note that the victim submitted under duress without a struggle. The Durham AV's forced-blowjob story is harder to swallow (heh) because she alleges that she put up a fighting resistance.

Even if the guy in the McDonald's put his thing in her mouth, it's not analogous. The distinguishing circumstances are: 1)she was compliant; the culprit did not need to have her forcibly restrained; 2)she was duped into believing that the guy in the room with her was acting under color of authority, following orders from a police officer.

I didn't say it was commonplace, you did.

And I'm not in the mood for word games.

You implied that a rapist would not forceably orally cop a victim because the victim might bite them.

I suggest you read more case facts.

So I'll ask: What could the players have done differently to be better off than their current situation?

If she is trapped in a bathroom with two more attackers, I doubt many women would consider the "bite and run" tactic a viable option.

From the defense motion: Investigator Himan omitted from his probable cause affidavit that in this written statement, Ms. Pittman informs the investigators that [redacted] never went back in the house. The affidavit also omitted that once [redacted] got to Ms. Pittman's automobile, she stayed there;... Defense motion with [typos] corrected: Investigator Himan omitted from his probable cause affidavit that in this written statement, Ms. Pittman [does not] inform the investigators that [redacted] never went back in the house. The affidavit also omitted that once [redacted] got to Ms. Pittman's automobile, she [did not] stay there;... hahahha! Yeah, typos. Osborn needs a new legal secretary. Weird how a few well placed [typos] can change the whole impact of the defense arguement.

TL and others, I wonder why the defense has not yet filed a motion to suppress the photo id's. That seems to me to be the strongest dispositive motion to be filed. It will obviously take some work, not a quickie like the recent motion, but they are no doubt going to file it soon. I suspect they are waiting for discovery to understand the full scope of ALL the attempts at obtaining an ID and description of these alleged to be involved. In the article re Professor Coleman requesting a special prosecutor, he states that it was the photographic ID that caused him the most concern in this case. I really don't understand the motivation of the Durham PD not to include fillers in the photo lineup to challenge the accuser's credibility. I understand Nifong's motivations, but I do not understand what the Durham PD and especially this Himan has to not perform proper police work. Wasn't Himan the investigator they sent after the poor cabbie. The police department doesn't answer to the DA as far as I know, but it sure seems like they do in this case.

The defense filed a motion to suppress the photo lineup weeks ago. You can read it here.

I do not buy the argument that a rapist would be afraid of a bite because they are raping by force and have the victim concerned about how much farther they would be willing to take it.

In my opinion, no male would put his penis in the mouth of a struggling female.

Why stick it in an orifice that has lots of teeth that can be accidentally used when a vagina or an anus has no teeth.

Yep, I be a man. And being that rape is about power and control and a great deal of victims are in shock or beaten into submission, I can clearly see how a woman would be afraid to bite. If a man can commit rape, what is to stop him from killing? Ridiculous argument.

By the way, you two sound as if you have never had your arse kicked.

I run outside and lock my car doors

I went to the bathroom with Precious and told her I wanted to leave. Precious felt we could get more money and that we shouldn't leave yet. She was uncontrollable at this point and was yelling at the boys who were knocking on the door to leave us alone. I finally decided to leave the house. I left the bathroom and exited the house w/ my dancing gear on. I went to the car wanting to leave, but not wanting to leave the girl in the house alone.

Racially motivated insults are never appropriate, but how do they equate with what is alleged in this case? Are the accused boys the ones that hurled insults? Seligman wasn't even there.

You don't know who called who what and what was said by the dancers.

They have a facility at Halsted and North avenue and you name the day and we can go 3 rounds of course,

Come on now Newport all I want is 3 rounds. I am much more refined these days, don't need to square off in the street like pond scum, I prefer laces and leather. I am game.

IMHO,

what about my typo correction? You didn't like it?

I got side-tracked, but I'm on it. While you're waiting, maybe you could comment on that Ohio oral rape case. Convicted on two counts of oral rape. No weapon. It wasn't hard to find, though maybe I just got lucky. It was the first result on my first google search.

But then again, I have never raped anyone, do you have some special insight we should know about?

Ahhh, you have fallen for those silly feminist myths about rape being about power and control.

Posted by inmyhumbleopinion June 14, 2006 02:12 PM Painstakingly transcribed by imho:

As Newport said, you have to look at it from the guy's point of view, because it's his decision. I wouldn't want to risk *my* penis on an assumption that a struggling victim who wasn't afraid to stratch her assailants would draw the line at biting. Moving right along: I don't find it hard to believe that a struggling victim might be afraid to bite a wouldbe rapist's dick. But would she be afraid to keep her mouth closed? A blowjob requires *active cooperation.* To allege that one was struggling yet gave someone a blowjob doesn't jibe.

Moving right along: I don't find it hard to believe that a struggling victim might be afraid to bite a wouldbe rapist's dick. But would she be afraid to keep her mouth closed? A blowjob requires *active cooperation.* To allege that one was struggling yet gave someone a blowjob doesn't jibe.

Try this on for size IMHO:

Defense motion with [typos] corrected:

Investigator Himan omitted from his probable cause affidavit that in his typed summary of this written statement, Ms. Pittman informs the investigators that [redacted] never went back in the house. The affidavit also omitted that once [redacted] got to Ms. Pittman's automobile, she stayed there;...

How's that? You happy now that the typos are corrected?

extrapolations

Newport, you missed my point

If you work, I hope you are self-employed and painstakingly transcribing on your own dime.

I think it is pretty easy for a man to say, I would refuse and kick some arse, because men are not generally raped outside of prison.

I do not think an assault happened here, however, when considering the alternative i.e. ending up in a coma or dead, I would have to side with having a penis in my mouth. I will live to fight another day or do anything to get it over with. Again, being afraid of serious bodily harm can do wonders for what you are willing and unwilling to do.