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Death and the Fifth Circuit

By TChris, Section Death Penalty
Posted on Wed May 31, 2006 at 08:47:01 PM EST
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by TChris

Andrew Cohen sums up the Fifth Circuit:

This appellate court and many of the judges on it are simply hostile to the rights of criminal defendants and have been for many years.

Case in point: a 2-1 death penalty affirmance that upheld a judge's refusal to allow the jury to hear how the defendant's death would affect his family and friends.

What possible justification could there be to refuse to allow a capital defendant to offer to jurors his friends and family to discuss the ramifications of his death? Why in the world would a trial judge refuse to permit such testimony in a case that obviously was going to ultimately result in a capital sentence anyway? And if by some chance the testimony from the defendant's family and friends were to sway jurors into a life sentence rather than a death penalty then wouldn't that switch be proof alone of the materiality and relevancy of the evidence?

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    Death and the Fifth Circuit | 26 comments (26 topical)
    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#1)
    by Patrick on Wed May 31, 2006 at 09:07:15 PM EST
    OK, lets trade. I'll give you a 9th circuit for the fifth. How 'bout that?

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 31, 2006 at 10:01:31 PM EST
    rogan: Do courts let weeping wives and kids affect how many years in jail rapists and other criminals, or is it based on sentencing guidelines and character/likelihood to commit another crime? I know it may upset your sense of fairness to learn this, but -- yes, they do. I guess you must have missed the recent trial of Zacarias Moussaoui:
    The prosecutors, who are seeking the death penalty, presented 15 witnesses, nearly all of whom testified at some point through sobs and tears. By the time the Justice Department ends its case Wednesday, some three dozen such witnesses will have testified as part of an effort to impress on the jurors the enduring pain and grief the terror attacks produced.
    Or did you discount that, because it was just a show trial?

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 31, 2006 at 10:03:34 PM EST
    ...The man, James Jackson, confessed to murdering his wife and two children...
    I guess they wouldn't be affected much, since he already killed them.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#4)
    by cpinva on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 12:03:50 AM EST
    i think TC was a tad confused, since clearly mr. jackson's wife and children are still dead, by his hand apparently. it was the friends and family who's testimony was disallowed, as not relevant. as the dissenting judge noted, if their's isn't relevant, than that of the family/friends of victims aren't either. the 5th circuit does seem to have difficulty with the basic concepts involved here. on the other hand, this may well be done intentionally, to force the hand of the USC. hey, it's a thought.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 04:41:06 AM EST
    I live in Maryland and we can't get the public interest lawyers to sue the state over conditions in our juvenile jails becasue of the dreaded fifth circuit. The laywers won't take a case that they know will never be upheld even tho the conditions in the juvenile detetnion centers are clearly unconstitutional with loads of documentation to boot.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 06:34:12 AM EST
    One of the most comic posts I've seen in the short time I've been watching this blog. Although there are some excellent examples out there that illustrate the deficienices of our judicial system in death penalty cases, this is clearly not one of them. Even pretending as much should draw a chuckle. And Baltimoremom, the public interest lawyers in your state must be reluctant to sue for some other reason: Maryland isn't even in the Fifth Circuit.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 08:15:52 AM EST
    The guy killed his wife and two kids- fu*k him- he deserves to die and I don't care how that affects the family members that he didn't kill. It is crap like this that put makes the left look so ridiculous- all the worrying about the rights of murderers, terrorists and child molestors.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#8)
    by Strick on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 08:46:26 AM EST
    I do think sentencing give at least as much consideration to the impact on family members as the convicted murderer gave his victim's. Frankly, the murderer made the decision to incur the impact, not the courts. This particular case does sound a little like the old one about the man who murdered his parents and asked the judge to go easy on him since he was an orphan. The judge should have ruled the way he did because it would have been a waste of the court's time to do otherwise.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#9)
    by Steven Sanderson on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:12:12 AM EST
    Some individuals seem to get agressively aroused by the thought that an accused individual may cheat them out of seeing the death penalty imposed. These same deep thinkers probably also believe that the canons of American jurisprudence are firearms.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:15:24 AM EST
    Exercise for the left, who said: "It is crap like this that put makes the left look so ridiculous- all the worrying about the rights of murderers, terrorists and child molestors." And, who said: "Whatever you did to the least of these, you did to Me, whatever you neglected to do for the least of these, you neglected to do it for Me."

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#11)
    by Dadler on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:34:25 AM EST
    "Faster Pussycat, Kill Kill" oughtta be the fifth circuit's motto.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:38:14 AM EST
    MIDad, there's no contradiction unless JRT claims to be a follower of the second speaker, which hardly seems likely based on his posts.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 10:05:54 AM EST
    Dadler, what about this case makes you think that should be their motto?

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#14)
    by txpublicdefender on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 10:38:21 AM EST
    This is just par for the course for the 5th Circuit, but I agree with those who don't see this case as particularly egregious. The Supremes have already berated them on more than one occasion for their death penalty and criminal law jurisprudence. This is the circuit that had a 2-1 panel decision upholding a death sentence where the defendant's lawyer repeatedly slept during the trial. This is the circuit that was reversed by the Supremes, and then, on remand, still upheld their previous opinion, going so far as to cite the dissenting opinion in the Supreme Court case that had reversed their earlier decision.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 11:08:31 AM EST
    Posted by MIDad June 1, 2006 10:15 AM Exercise for the left, who said: "It is crap like this that put makes the left look so ridiculous- all the worrying about the rights of murderers, terrorists and child molestors." And, who said: "Whatever you did to the least of these, you did to Me, whatever you neglected to do for the least of these, you neglected to do it for Me."
    It is interesting how the left embraces Jesus when they find it convenient.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#16)
    by narius on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 11:23:35 AM EST
    This appellate court and many of the judges on it are simply hostile to the rights of criminal defendants and have been for many years. Good! Finally someone stood up to criminals and killers for the normal people. I am happy. BTW, these are CONVICTED killers. There is no doubt about their guilt.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#17)
    by Peaches on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 11:29:51 AM EST
    It is interesting how the left embraces Jesus when they find it convenient.
    It is even more interesting how many christians choose to ignore the most basic and important teachings of Jesus

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#18)
    by aw on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 12:13:57 PM EST
    It is interesting how the left embraces Jesus when they find it convenient.
    Anybody can play!

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 12:19:25 PM EST
    Which brings up the original point: If you categorically oppose the death penalty, say so instead of using using shoddy law to chip away at it (victim statements are as bogus as family/friend statements in this). Jesus also said to turn the other cheek, so I guess in his world we wouldn't need to arrest people because no one would file charges.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 12:41:46 PM EST
    "It is crap like this that put makes the left look so ridiculous- all the worrying about the rights of murderers, terrorists and child molestors" This coming from a supporter of the children murderers iun Iraq. JRT, why aren't you in Iraq, they allow bedwetters.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 01:03:23 PM EST
    JRT:
    It is interesting how the left embraces Jesus when they find it convenient.
    Embracing the teachings of Jesus does not involve joining the Christian Right -- see Christian Left. And it most certainly does not involve seeking revenge and making statements like "he deserves to die and I don't care how that affects the family members that he didn't kill". Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the New Testament knows that.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 05:45:29 PM EST
    JRT: It is remarkable how the right emraces Jesus, but ignores pretty much everything he ever said. Paul wrote the following, very much to the point: "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord" (Romans 12:19). Capitol punishment is nothing more than revenge. We should leave revenge (vengeance) to God. For more, click here and scroll down to the section about the teachings of Jesus.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:16:24 PM EST
    Wow!- it is a regular bible study group in here. "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death." -Exodus 21:12

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#24)
    by aw on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 09:30:38 PM EST
    JRT, you brought up Jesus, then you refer to Exodus, which is Old Testament. Guess you know your stuff, huh?

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 11:23:00 PM EST
    "JRT, you brought up Jesus, then you refer to Exodus, which is Old Testament. Guess you know your stuff, huh?" That's so typical of the right wing Christians. They claim to "know" Jesus, but when they quote the Bible they only seem to know the Old Testament. They are cherry picking. They would never find support for their policies and goals in the New Testament. Indeed, if they actually followed the teachings of Jesus, they'd be forced to be, uh, (gag) librulz. Example: Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, much less decried it. Not once. Apparently it wasn't important enough to preach about. So the Christian right resorts to passages from the Old Testament - or their interpretations of Paul's interpretations of Jesus - for support for their homophobia. Then ponder this paradox: The Jews don't have a New Testament. I don't know about you, maybe I'm selective -- but the Jewish people I know tend to be among the most liberal and tolerant people I know. How is that? Are there two Old Testaments? Or are there two ways of understanding the same Old Testament? Strange.

    Re: Death and the Fifth Circuit (none / 0) (#26)
    by Johnny on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 04:36:34 AM EST
    That's why I just tossed the whole concept of "revealed religion" into the ditch and started worshiping the dirt it fell on. The framers of the bible left it purposefully ambiguous to placate as many powers as possible-something for everyone to use for justification in everything from murdering millions of brown people to stoning women to suppressing any kind of real choice in a human beings life. BOT-and why shouldn't the criminals family be taken into consideration? I am absoultely against the DP, but I also recognize that revenge is a major theme in "civilized" cultures, the DP will be present in this coutnry forever. As long as there are people who foam at the mouth at the thought of somebody getting rubbed out by the state, it will exist.

    Death and the Fifth Circuit | 26 comments (26 topical)