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Remember the Dead, Honor the Living

By TChris, Section Legislation
Posted on Mon May 29, 2006 at 09:28:55 AM EST
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by TChris

Congressman James Oberstar argues that the best way to remember those in the military who sacrified their lives is to "keep our promises to those still with us."

The U.S. government must once again fulfill our moral obligation to those who have fought for freedom and democracy. ... The comprehensive New GI Bill of Rights for the 21st Century will strengthen benefits for our men and women in uniform today, and it will provide long overdue benefits for the veterans and military retirees who have already served. For those returning from the front lines - 18,000 troops have been wounded in Iraq alone - we are continuing our efforts to invest adequately in veterans' health care. Our New GI Bill of Rights for the 21st Century focuses on improving veterans' health care, including mental health care, to meet the needs of our returning troops. More than 30,000 veterans are waiting in line for their first appointment with the Veterans Administration (VA), and that problem will only worsen with the growing numbers of returning service men and women.

Rep. Allen Boyd shares that goal. Instead of moving forward, Republicans this month approved a budget resolution that would underfund veterans' health care in the future, despite evidence that veterans' access to health care is already severely underfunded.

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    Remember the Dead, Honor the Living | 19 comments (19 topical)
    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#1)
    by aw on Mon May 29, 2006 at 10:27:35 AM EST
    Why should our troops take precedence over funding tax cuts for the wealthy? Don't we support them enough? They should have invested in the companies that produce those yellow ribbon magnets in China. They should be responsible for their own damn health instead of looking for handouts.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 29, 2006 at 11:12:54 AM EST
    Dirge for two veterans THE last sunbeam Lightly falls from the finish'd Sabbath, On the pavement here--and there beyond, it is looking, Down a new-made double grave. 2 Lo! the moon ascending! 5 Up from the east, the silvery round moon; Beautiful over the house tops, ghastly phantom moon; Immense and silent moon. 3 I see a sad procession, And I hear the sound of coming full-key'd bugles; 10 All the channels of the city streets they're flooding, As with voices and with tears. 4 I hear the great drums pounding, And the small drums steady whirring; And every blow of the great convulsive drums, 15 Strikes me through and through. 5 For the son is brought with the father; In the foremost ranks of the fierce assault they fell; Two veterans, son and father, dropt together, And the double grave awaits them. 20 6 Now nearer blow the bugles, And the drums strike more convulsive; And the day-light o'er the pavement quite has faded, And the strong dead-march enwraps me. 7 In the eastern sky up-buoying, 25 The sorrowful vast phantom moves illumin'd; ('Tis some mother's large, transparent face, In heaven brighter growing.) 8 O strong dead-march, you please me! O moon immense, with your silvery face you soothe me! 30 O my soldiers twain! O my veterans, passing to burial! What I have I also give you. 9 The moon gives you light, And the bugles and the drums give you music; And my heart, O my soldiers, my veterans, 35 My heart gives you love. Walt Whitman

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 29, 2006 at 11:50:39 AM EST
    The need to stop treating veterans like some old shoes you'd tossed out was a recurrent theme in the neighborhood observance we had here too. In fact, I'll bet some comment on the shoddy treatment veterans (AND current military) get from this administration is part of pretty much every Memorial Day celebration today. I don't see how a thinking person could talk about the point of this holiday without mentioning it.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#4)
    by Rational on Mon May 29, 2006 at 12:50:34 PM EST
    Lets see we have a bunch of voleenteer thugs who in 2000 voted 80% + for a war monger and after they got the war they wanted voted over 70%+ for him again in 2004. They are obeting illegal orders to pursue an illegal war. On top of that they are ignoring the Geneva conventions, International treaties against torture and massacreing the occassional nationals they encounter on a whim. All in all they have totally trashed the honor of our country and disgraced the flag that so many before them had fought, with honor, to defend. But now we are suppose to reward these war criminials!!!???? Gee why don't we give Berkowitz the keys to New York while we are at it. Or maybe rename Oklahoma city after one of these "honorable" vets and let become McViegh town. Get real the only reward thes people deserve is a term in leavenworth. They are a disgrace to humanity, a blot upon our history and shame that will take americans a 100 years to atone for.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 29, 2006 at 03:12:20 PM EST
    "Rational" (yeah, right)--If you want to troll, go to freerepublic. They're more your style.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Mon May 29, 2006 at 03:50:05 PM EST
    From Larry Johnson: Here's an excerpt from "Hello, David":
    Hello, David--my name is Dusty. I'm your night nurse. I will stay with you. I will check your vitals every 15 minutes. I will document inevitability. I will hang more blood and give you something for your pain. I will stay with you and I will touch your face. Yes, of course, I will write your mother and tell her you were brave. I will write your mother and tell her how much you loved her. ...
    And Larry reminded me of legendary war reporter Joey Galloway's video reading at C&L. War reporting taught him how to cry.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#7)
    by Rational on Mon May 29, 2006 at 03:50:27 PM EST
    How am I trolling? Do we have an all volunteer force? Did they vote for a war monger? Yes Is it an illegal war? Preventative wars are illegal under the UN charter. Is the Nuremberg Defense accepted? No under the UCMJ it specifically states that obeying an illegal order to commit/participate in an illegal act does not waive personal responsibility. So obeying orders to fight in an illegal war is a crime. Tactics employed at fallujah were illegal. Taking hostages is illegal. Torture is illegal.We are told that this is suppose to be the most "professional" force the US has ever had. Professionals know the rules. They have no excuse for the violation of the Geneva Conventions and a myriad of other laws/treaty's/agreements that they are violating. Have they brought honor to the country by thier behavior? Abu Ghabil, Fallujah, Haditha, murdering prisoners, Gitmo. These are all stains on the national honor of the US committed by the US military. Do repeated, consistent and flagrent violations of the UCMJ, the UN Charter, the Geneva Conventions, The Treaty on Torture make one a War Criminial? Yes. If not what does? But I guess ugly reality is trolling in your book. Are any of my arguements wrong or just aunacceptable truths that challenge your fantasies?

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#8)
    by Sailor on Mon May 29, 2006 at 04:46:57 PM EST
    rational and Molly, I think 'what we have here is a failure to comminicate' [/Strother Martin] But I have to admit, the 1st timne I read rational's comment I was wonderin' just what he meant.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 29, 2006 at 04:52:02 PM EST
    Rational:
    Is it an illegal war? Preventative wars are illegal under the UN charter.
    Can you point out where in the UN charter it states so?

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#10)
    by jondee on Mon May 29, 2006 at 05:18:27 PM EST
    Who here expects the minds that view the U.S labor force primarily as an expense that detracts from the bottom-line to view vets as anything more precious or substantial than "old pair of shoes"? F*ck you Jack, you shoulda gotten your MBA when you had the chance. This is the world that the Norquists and the Scaifes want to bequeath to us; the question is, how can you be a whole human being and buy into it?

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Mon May 29, 2006 at 05:26:02 PM EST
    If the vets want a better shake, they should hire a better lobbying firm. Its a time-honored institution thats just another example of why we're the envy of the free world. Jim and Rush said to say that.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#12)
    by Rational on Mon May 29, 2006 at 05:43:39 PM EST
    Here is a reference. http://www.globelaw.com/Iraq/Preventive_war_after_iraq.htm#_Toc41379597 A number of international lawyers have written opinions stating that it would be a violation of international law if the United States, United Kingdom and other States were to use military force against Iraq without specific, new Security Council authorization. These arguments will not be repeated here and reference should be made to those opinions. Notable are the opinions by Rabinder Singh and Charlotte Kilroy of Matrix Chambers.[25] The International Commission of Jurists denounced the attack as an illegal invasion of Iraq which amounts to a war of aggression.[26] Sixteen senior teachers of international law from the United Kingdom and France[27] wrote a statement stating that "[o]n the basis of the information publicly available, there is no justification under international law for the use of military force against Iraq.... Before military action can lawfully be undertaken against Iraq, the security council must have indicated its clearly expressed assent. It has not yet done so. A decision to undertake military action in Iraq without proper security council authorisation will seriously undermine the international rule of law." 31 Canadian law professors said that US attack "would be a fundamental breach of international law and would seriously threaten the integrity of the international legal order that has been in place since the end of the Second World War,"[28] and 43 Australian legal experts said that the initiation of a war against Iraq by the self-styled 'coalition of the willing' would be a fundamental violation of international law and said that the United States doctrine or preemptive self defence contradicts the cardinal principle of the modern international legal order and the primary rationale for the founding of the UN after World War II - the prohibition of the unilateral use of force to settle disputes.[29] On March 11, United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan said that "[i]f the U.S. and others were to go outside the Council and take military action it would not be in conformity with the Charter."[30] Briefly stated, it is clear from Article 2(4), Article 42 and Article 51 of the UN Charter that Member States are to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State. Force may only be used if specifically approved by the Security Council or proportionate force may be used in self defence when a threat is imminent. In the latter case, in the words of the Nuremberg Tribunal, "preventive action in foreign territory is justified only in case of 'an instant and overwhelming necessity for self-defense, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation'."[31]

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 29, 2006 at 05:57:28 PM EST
    Rational - So the answer is you can't. Sorry Wile, couldn't resist.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#14)
    by soccerdad on Mon May 29, 2006 at 06:03:12 PM EST
    soo ppj you're an idiot - sorry couldn't resist

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#15)
    by Rational on Mon May 29, 2006 at 06:04:18 PM EST
    Here it is Sorry if by having it so far down you didn't get to it. "Briefly stated, it is clear from Article 2(4), Article 42 and Article 51 of the UN Charter that Member States are to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State. Force may only be used if specifically approved by the Security Council or proportionate force may be used" in self defence when a threat is imminent.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#16)
    by Rational on Mon May 29, 2006 at 06:14:01 PM EST
    US military does this in Fallujah and they get medals. Somali's do it and they are accused of war crimes. Both of them should be prosecuted for war crimes. Thugs are thugs. Criminials are criminials. http://nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Somalia-Fighting.html Somali Militias May Face War Crime Charges By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: May 29, 2006 Filed at 7:36 p.m. ET MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- Militias fighting for control of the Somali capital could face war crimes charges for attempting to prevent the wounded and other civilians from receiving assistance, a U.N. official warned Monday.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Mon May 29, 2006 at 08:05:54 PM EST
    Clearly the president lied during his west point speech.
    .) When the United Nations Security Council gave him one final chance to disclose and disarm, or face serious consequences, he refused to take that final opportunity. So coalition forces went into Iraq and removed his cruel regime.
    link The Iraq war is clearly against international law as the UN Security Council voted against it. Remember all the talk about 'Old Europe'? Freedom fries. 'World's Only Superpower' syndrome: it is like a mania. Symptoms such as ignoring International and national laws, flaming world opinion, are endemic.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#18)
    by cpinva on Mon May 29, 2006 at 09:02:27 PM EST
    that this was an unprovoked war of smoke and mirrors isn't even an issue for discussion. the whole administration lied about wmd's, period. anything after that is dross. i understood you the first time rational, even if jim didn't. am i surprised that jim didn't? no, of course not. sadly, jim suffers from "cotton brain", a little known condition, which enables the sufferer to completely ignore data not supporting his pre-ordained conclusions. i understand jerry lewis is going to start a new telethon, to raise funds for research, and to raise awareness of this disease. it turns out that a good 48% of the voting population suffers from it. with such a huge market, i feel certain there's money to be made, by the first drug company that comes up with a cure.

    Re: Remember the Dead, Honor the Living (none / 0) (#19)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Mon May 29, 2006 at 11:09:52 PM EST
    Back on topic...the Republican's support of the troops is purely non-monetary, i.e., they won't put their money from where their bullsheeit spews out of.

    Remember the Dead, Honor the Living | 19 comments (19 topical)