Perhaps if someone told Nancy Grace that Enron employees were gang-raped out of their inheritance by Skilling, Lay et al?

I kept thinking Nifong was going to pull a rabbit out of his hat. No rabbit. No hat.

Here, I would lean towards an estimate of 9 ozs given the pours I saw in college. It would be even worse if on an empty stomach. Regardless, that is a sh*tload of booze in 5 minutes for anyone!!! As for the drugs she could have taken....valium, xanex, oxycontin, percocet, vicodin. Mix any of these with that much booze and lights out quickly!!

"I asked her questions trying to follow up on a better description of the suspects, she was unable to remember anything further about the suspects [Detective's notes]"

As for the drugs she could have taken....valium, xanex, oxycontin, percocet, vicodin. Mix any of these with that much booze and lights out quickly!!

On that note, I'm asking those of you who are doing this (and you know who you are) to stop taking pot shots at Duke. If it was your school, your friends, your sport, your family, and your achievements, you would be hurt as we Dukies are (but do not discount our loyalty). And it is irrelevant to this case, unless you want to perpetuate stereotypes.

"The state is not aware of any additional material or information which may be exculpatory in nature with respect to the defendant," Nifong wrote in a court filing.

I've been reading this board now for quite a while, but each time I feel the urge to comment, the level of personal animosity has made me hesitate to throw my hat into the fray. That being said, I don't think that those who are more inclined to believe the AV are either more or less likely to resort to shrill pettiness than those more inclined to believe the ARs. I rather feel bad for the few caught in the middle, as they seem genuinely willing to go through the processes of analysis and reasonable skepticism before choosing to believe or disbelieve either side. They seem to be the ones most likely to end up snarked at by both sides. The fate, I suppose of compromisers everywhere.

Do any lawyers have experience with this?

What a shock - as I've said before, I have personal experience with a prosecutor witholding evidence. It was a shock when it happened. My opinion of prosecutors tanked. Do any lawyers have experience with this?

I believe you have enough outrage for all of us. How about outrage for Finnerty's unprovoked assault on a man in Georgetown?

I know he is paraphrased as saying he turned over everything, and 1300 pages would seem to be, but I'm still wondering if he had to turn it all over, or only whatever might be exculpatory.

I hope you stay. You are one of the most reasoned and reasonable and courteous commenters of these threads. I would hate to think you might leave because of snarkiness. Emotions run high over this case and it's difficult to always keep snark out of posts, but you do it with grace every time.

Bloxgom said Finnerty and the other young men "punched him in the face and body" after he told them to "stop calling him gay and other derogatory names," according to the complaint. He added "that when he tried to walk away, the subjects without provocation attacked him, busting his lip and bruising his chin."

My understanding was that it was a late night, Georgetown, inebriated young men talking smack, and the AV ended up with a split lip.

Man, this whole thing is like a bad theme park. We've got the shifting facts ride, the lawyerly spin zone, and the conflicting loyalties battering ram.

noname, Sorry if I'm being dense here...I'm not sure I understand. Nifong said, before discovery, that the defense didn't know his timeline, correct? I would conclude that he thinks that the defense timeline is wrong, and his is right. Therefore, he doesn't agree with what they've been saying is exculpatory: the time stamped photos, the ATM receipt, the alleged restaurant receipt, etc. Right?"

"I can reasonably say these injuries are consistent with the story she told," Arico said.

It's not clear to me that she was the Duke nurse who examined the AV. She does confirm that a SANE nurse cannot determine whether a rape has occurred. She says that is for the State Bureau of Investigation. I wonder whether such a determination is really required, and if so, was it made.

But even if she wasn't raped, I feel sympathy and empathy for the AV

My question is, if Nifong believes the accused were present for the rape, how can he claim they do not know the correct timeline? If they raped her, then they were there. Of course they would know the timeline. I can see if he wants to claim they have fabricated a timeline, but he doesn't. He says that they do not "know" it. These do not sound to me like the words of a man who thinks the accused are guilty.

I never said she examined the AV. She is an expert familiar with the case. I don't know if she examined her.

A DNA link is not clear cut with the type of test used in this case, DNA experts told ABC News. ABC News spoke with DNA analysts, including Brian Meehan, head of DNA Security, the Burlington, N.C. laboratory that conducted the set of tests used in the case. All of the analysts agreed that the most one could say about Evans was that he could not be ruled out, but also could not be definitively ruled in.

"I asked her questions trying to follow up on a better description of the suspects, she was unable to remember anything further about the suspects," the note from Durham police investigator B.W. Himan says, according to the motion filed by lawyers Bill Cotter and Wade Smith.

"At some point in their interviews and investigations, one or more of these officers asked (the accuser) to describe the men who she claims sexually assaulted her, and (she) provided some answer to that question," the motion says. Her "response to that question is critical to the defense of the case and the state may not withhold that evidence from the defendant."

7. Date and Race of Last Voluntary Coitus when analyzing semen specimens in sex-related crimes, forensic analysts sometimes find genetic markers which are inconsistent with a mixture from only the patient and the offender. A mixture of semen from an offender and the patient's previous male sexual partner could lead to blood grouping results which, if unexplained, could conflict with the patient's own account of the assault.

Patients are asked if they engaged in voluntary sexual intercourse with a male within a week prior to the assault. If so, patients are then asked the date and race of the contact in order to help determine the possible significance of semen remaining from the prior sexual contact.

Legally, the patient's prior sexual activity and/or date of last coitus with a person other than the offender, is information which should be protected from open court by the Texas statute.

This person's identity is not relevant either to the medical examination or for the initial findings of the crime laboratory and should not be sought at time of initial examination. The patient should, however, be instructed to remember the identity of that person and how to reach him should a blood or hair sample be needed later.

The security guard says she smelled alcohol on the driver, but not on the alleged victim.

At the end of the recording, the guard says that police had not returned to talk with her since the night of the incident.

Most people go through life and their relationship to booze and drugs aren't exposed to the public.

I also had not realized that the guard said that Kim and the AV got to the Kroger around 1 am and not later.

Again, this is just one witness' recollection, but one with no apparent axe to grind, a "sister" if you will.

Finnerty brought more beer to the party and then left for dinner w/plans to come back....Maybe she saw him when he re-arrived and she was falling down the steps in a stupor?

The security guard says she smelled alcohol on the driver, but not on the alleged victim.

I don't deny it was said, it was wrong and it was racist.

As such, it would be very significant if Kim threw out the first racial insult, right?

I'm sorry, but both of those women make their living in an illegal profession. Take the arguments, both social and legislative, about prostitution: it IS illegal. And if any of you is naive enough to think that a woman working for an escort service in Durham, NC is not offering sex for money, then I've got some low level, swamp land, flood plain property here in FL for sale. Both women have committed chargeable felony acts. One is, in fact, a convicted felon, one committed felonies but was allowed to plead (rightly to my mind) to lesser offenses. The AV had a 1.9 blood alcohol, driving a stolen cab the wrong way on a highway. Kim stole $25,000 from her employer, even though she said she "didn't need it." These are your witnesses?

I may be in the minority on that, I know, but I wonder how many of the posters on this board have any familiarity with 18 or 19 year old boys/young men/men in the year 2006? Trust me. It is not always a pretty sight.

Imagine how thrilled the player that was photographed "asleep" with a wet spot on his pants feels.

Re: the broom comment. Both Kim and the AV, despite the horror that they both felt, the degradation, the danger, the disgust WENT BACK IN.

Everyone is racist because, as pathetic as it is, it is ultimately means of self-definition against another. Have you seen "Crash"? If not, I suggest you see it.

I love hearing the female commentators discussing artificial nails - the cost, the durability, the pain of removal. As if the AV had paid $40+ at a salon or spa. No, no, no. This I will bet anyone here: the AV bought some press-on nails. Those things come off so easily, cost very little, and come ready to . . . press on.

I saw an interview a few weeks back of a former stripper and a former porn star, who both have set up programs to help women get out of stripping/escort/sex careers. The stripper stated (and the porn star agreed) that 99% of the time women in their formers careers use alcohol or drugs before (for courage), during (to remove inhibitions) and after (to forget) house calls/filming.

Kim's credibility is next to nil, so her perceptions are laughable to me. God love her: that email to the PR firm ruined her as a witness, if the embezzlement didn't.

Being hospitalized for a week would indicate being highly suicidal or having a break with reality.

I'm not sure what's so awful about shoving, but even if it is awful, there's been no confirmation that any of the lacrosse players actually said any such thing, AFAIK.

Anyone wonder if the reason why the AV spilled her own drink was that she was already intoxicated?

Roberts' history makes her a pretty unreliable source of truth.

I'm not challenging your source's information, but if Finnerty is 19 or 20, how does he buy beer? Someone else who's 21 go with him? If so, he's got another witness, right?

I'm just thinking about this because of the specific photos images in question. Finnerty is fairly distinctive looking, but if I recall, he might have had an older brother on the team, so there could have been two similar looking pale Irish kids.

As far as I'm concerned, it "started" with the broom comment.

It's a piece of melodramatic tripe that simplifies racism and basically says, "it's okay to be racist because, hey, everybody else probably is!" without getting to the causes/motives, and responsibility. Not to mention how Asians were practically non-existent. It is irritating how many white racists I've seen use that movie to justify their behavior.

I understand that they had to finish a job, anybody who does any type of works knows that deal.

I know two strippers. One of them wouldn't take a single drink of Smirnoff because she was on her way to work.

1. Your quote from my post was NOT an ad hominem attack, it was the kind of thing that is allowed to attack a witness', any witness' credibility.