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Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted

Huge breaking news from Jason Leopold just now at Truthout -- Karl Rove has been indicted.

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald spent more than half a day Friday at the offices of Patton Boggs, the law firm representing Karl Rove.

During the course of that meeting, Fitzgerald served attorneys for former Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove with an indictment charging the embattled White House official with perjury and lying to investigators related to his role in the CIA leak case, and instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 business hours to get his affairs in order, high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning. Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, did not return a call for comment.

Leopold reports the charges include lying to investigators and perjury before the grand jury but it is not yet known if obstruction of justice is one of the charges.

If obstruction is off the table, there's still a chance Karl Rove can avoid prison by pleading guilty and continuing to cooperate with Fitzgerald. Only if prison is unavoidable, do I think Karl Rove will fight.

Update: Jason said the meeting lasted 15 hours. That tells me they were hammering out a plea deal to the charges. Were they successful in coming to terms? Stay tuned.

Update: I'm still thinking out the scenarios. If I had to take bets, I'd say efforts at a plea agreement failed. Why? This line from Jason's report:

[Fitzgerald] instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 hours to get his affairs in order, high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning.

It sounds to me like they went round and round for hours and weren't able to come to a meeting of the minds. So my take is Karl Rove will be fighting the Indictment.

Update: Here's another scenario if Jason's article is accurate, and it's just my speculation as to how this could have played out:

The grand jury indicts Karl Rove Wednesday. On Friday, Fitz meets with Luskin to offer a final plea deal. He tells Luskin what the charges are, but does not provide a copy of the actual Indictment. They haggle and haggle but can't come to a final resolution. Fitz gives his final offer, and tells Luskin either he takes the plea by a certain time over the weekend, or the Indictment is unsealed Monday morning and Rove needs to make arrangements to surrender. Fitzgerald then leaves.

Luskin, Rove and other members of Team Rove then spend many hours, perhaps well into the early morning hours of Saturday (hence Jason's 15 hour statement), debating what Rove should do. Rove finally decides to decline the offer, either not willing either to admit to certain facts or believing that some of the charges in the Indictment are unfair and legally unsupportable.

One question I have is whether Fitz would actually deliver a copy of the Indictment to Luskin in advance of its unsealing in Court. If it's sealed, it seems to me he can't share it. He could, howver, hand over a paper with a list of charges -- or a draft of a proposed plea agreement that contains the charges Rove must plead to to get a deal.

Luskin has always maintained that Rove has cooperated fully with Fitz' investigation. I continue to believe a 5k (sentence reduction for cooperation) has been made available to Rove. It may just be the amount of Fitz' proposed reduction Rove won't accept -- in other words, it's not enough to get him out of a prison sentence.

Update: Larry Johnson reports on Democratic Underground:

It is not just Jason Leopold. Joe Wilson heard the same from other sources. And, more importantly, Jason is reporting based on multiple, more than two, sources.

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  • Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Sat May 13, 2006 at 02:38:52 PM EST
    yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,etc. Next

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Sat May 13, 2006 at 02:43:50 PM EST
    How can he commit perjury and lie to investigators and NOT get an obstruction of justice charge? And I give the wingers two posts to bring up the Clenis.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#3)
    by scribe on Sat May 13, 2006 at 02:49:15 PM EST
    Well, if this is so, I'm glad I lost the Pool*. Couldn't have come soon enough. *N.B. does this article count as the public announcement, or do we wait for Fitz before cameras or FBI guys with hands on Rover? Now, do we get him frog-marched on TV? When the US Attorney gives you 24 hours to get your affairs in order, he's (a) being very generous, and (b) setting up a press chase of every move Rover makes until his arraignment. I'm still of the opinion that Rover should get nailed with at least one obstruction charge, if only for (a) jerking the GJ around through five f'g appearances and/or (b) the suddenly discovered emails. I guess we'll see soon enough. Also wondering how, if at all, this will affect W's speech on Monday night and whether the pundits will even mention it. Anyone?

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#4)
    by scribe on Sat May 13, 2006 at 02:49:56 PM EST
    Dadler, you lose. Iv'e eaten the two posts.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#5)
    by Dadler on Sat May 13, 2006 at 02:56:12 PM EST
    Scribe, E-gad, man, you better take a Bromo-Seltzer or something, those winger posts don't go down smoothly.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:05:14 PM EST
    In paragraph 1, it says "half the day", but in paragraph 3, it says "15 hours". Is it a typo? Should it be "5 hours"? And, legally speaking, does it make sense for Fitz to "serve an indictment to Rove's lawyers"? This seems quite different from what we've come to expect from the Libby precedent, where the GJ vote and then there was an immediate announcement and press conference. Any thoughts on this?

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:10:11 PM EST
    Well, if this is so, I'm glad I lost the Pool*. Couldn't have come soon enough. I couldn't agree more!!! Wow - this is great news! I thought it would be on Friday, after Chris Matthews said something about it on Imus. Thanks for posting this so soon, TL. I was hoping for your take on all this. It's so appreciated! ps the wonderful poems did not go unnoticed, either. Keep up the great work!

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:11:02 PM EST
    Watching the right wing press spin this is going to be 24 ct.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:12:02 PM EST
    The long meeting makes sense if they were trying to hammer out a plea agreement.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:17:45 PM EST
    obsessed- I think he must mean a 24 hour day not an 8 hour day. ergo: more than half a day= 12 hours +. An 8 hour day would be too few billable hours. (Sorry, for the snark.. too tempting)

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:20:44 PM EST
    Karl is scheduled to speak at the AEI on Monday at 11am (I know this because CNN Pipeline has it in their Monday webcast schedule). If we don't have confirmation on this by Monday it will be very telling if the speech is canceled.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:22:26 PM EST
    Another apparent discrepancy is that the article says Fitz tells the lawyer that Rove has "24 hours to get his affairs in order", and yet the announcement is expected "this week".

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#13)
    by Dadler on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:23:03 PM EST
    Add Scribe, The entire point of Dubya's Monday speech is to DEFLECT, or attempt to, attention away from this mess. And what issue to do that with? Militarizing the border. The chances he talks about Rove are less than nil. Negative nil.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:29:11 PM EST
    If this is not true it is the most cruel gag imaginable. If it is true I want to give a party to celebrate.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#15)
    by annburns on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:35:03 PM EST
    I just don't believe this. It would be great if it were true - but I don't think it is.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 03:53:26 PM EST
    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! And more cautiously, I too hope this isn't just some big trick being pulled on us.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 04:17:27 PM EST
    Oh, I think it's true. Why else would Bush be announcing on Monday that we are deploying troops at the Mexican Border? Hmmmmmmmmmm? Can yer say: 'Wag dat dog..'

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 04:21:41 PM EST
    Rove's scheduled Monday speech has disappeared from the "coming events" at the American Enterprise website.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 04:35:04 PM EST
    It's the source of all liberal's excitement; Karl Rove's finally under indictment! Upside-down by his heels! Now, see how it feels? With his fall, we'll take such delightment.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 04:38:48 PM EST
    Lines cee and dee again! What's a man to do? Nice one.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 04:46:10 PM EST
    emdee, was it there before? I did a google cache and didn't see it posted.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 04:51:19 PM EST
    dwemer: I mentioned the AEI event on Monday as well over on dKos, but instead of typing out the whole thing, you can read what I just commented regarding this event: Here's a curious clue

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 04:53:24 PM EST
    dafonz, I've never been to the AEI website before today. But Rove's Monday talk is still listed at numerous other sites, so it seems odd that it would not be scheduled the AEI site... no? Kinda makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck, doesn't it?

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 04:58:25 PM EST
    TL, I don't think you should post this unless your reader has a defibrillator built-in to his or her browser. And then you should post it, but only with a "click to defibrillate yourself" button.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 05:03:06 PM EST
    Emdee, I agree it should be posted on their website. A Rove speech from December 2001 is listed on their website but this one is not for some reason. Something isn't right here. Here's the link to the 2001 speech: http://www.aei.org/events/eventID.14,filter.all/event_detail.asp

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 05:09:03 PM EST
    This is from THE NOTE: "-- May 15, 2006: White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove addresses selected media members at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, DC" But not a word at the AEI website. First listing there is for May 17. And yet... and yet... if it's members of the MEDIA he's addressing, wouldn't you think one of them should have noticed by now that the event seems to have been cancelled? Curiouser and curiouser.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 05:11:50 PM EST
    correction to my last post... AEI has a scheduled roundtable on "the Fate of the Earth" on Tuesday May 16. Perhaps the two stories are related... :-)

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 05:14:31 PM EST
    off topic - deleted

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Sat May 13, 2006 at 05:26:59 PM EST
    Dream a little dream eh?

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 05:31:57 PM EST
    As for Bush's speech Monday the immigration issue was at a dead standstill for some time. The ongoing investigation of Rove does not parallel the immigration issue which has been a problem for how many years.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#31)
    by orionATL on Sat May 13, 2006 at 05:41:38 PM EST
    congratulations talk left!!! this is a great "scoop" for this weblog. and it follows a year or so of very solid reporting. when reflecting on newspaper and teevee performance, we all might consider this question: with an issue like this, is it better to have a degree from a journalism school? or twenty-to-thirty years as an attorney defending or prosecuting clients? who is likely to understand the goings-on better? reflect on this next time you wonder why "regular" reporters just don't seem to understand the facts or the implications of the stories they are reporting on. again congratulations talk left.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 05:47:04 PM EST
    MonkeyBoy over at dKos just found this link at AEI: A Policy Address by Karl Rove Although there's no mention of it on the main events page.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#33)
    by orionATL on Sat May 13, 2006 at 05:54:18 PM EST
    my god! i just went thru my "a" list of the weblogs i go to first for info and only talk left and washington monthly are reporting about rove. i considered doing a paul revere at the other sites: to the keyboards! to the keyboards! but then, they're probably typing away right now. plus, i already got mine here at talk left.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 06:11:22 PM EST
    Orion, I think it's just because people are wary of Leopold's reporting. He's gotten some things right and some things wrong. I think most people are willing to wait until they hear it from another source before they start celebrating.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 06:12:24 PM EST
    I am cautiously optimistic. Jason Leopold has a youthful tendency to jump the gun a little, and somebody might be messing with him...? It's so weird this isn't up in more places.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#36)
    by Kitt on Sat May 13, 2006 at 06:23:29 PM EST
    yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,etc. Next

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 06:32:51 PM EST
    The other sites aren't reporting because they want confirmation from someone other than Leopold. I have more faith in Leopold's reporting than they do. I'm not vouching for the accuracy of the report any more than I vouch for any other news report. I'm not breaking news, I'm reporting Jason breaking news. But if I thought it was a rumor, I would have labelled it such. Check back, as I am about to update with more thoughts on how this could have played out from a legal perspective.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 06:52:38 PM EST
    Comment over at DailyKos:
    Just got off the phone with (26+ / 0-) NY Daily News Nat'l Desk that says that THEY'RE aware of the story and are trying to verify. by the OTHER rasmussen on Sat May 13, 2006 at 04:13:56 PM PDT


    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#39)
    by orionATL on Sat May 13, 2006 at 07:50:09 PM EST
    talk left: no doubt talk left was just reporting what was written elsewhere. hence the use of the word "scoop" in quotes. but the critical point i wished to emphasize is that the flexibility and "daring" or "risk taking" or "confidence in leopold's reporting" is really the key thing. weblogs simply are the new "guerrilla" forces in news coverage. the wapo or the nytimes may take an hour or a day to check sources to be just right. talk left uses its "editor's judgment, makes a call and "reports". if talk left is wrong, which can and will happen, all hell will not break loose as it would if the la times or nytimes were involved. "guerrilla" reporting from a flexible, small unit, quick to move, risk taking outfit is what most of us appreciate.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#40)
    by scribe on Sat May 13, 2006 at 07:51:09 PM EST
    39 posts and not a winger troll among them. Hmmmm, I guess everyone's off for Saturday? My point on the putative indictment messing with W's Monday speech is the "swamping" effect the announcement would have on the speech. Announce before, and if W doesn't deal with it, he's really out to lunch out-of-touch. Announce after, and the indictment news kills whatever bounce he might have gotten from the speech. And, any pundits commenting on the speech who avoid addressing the indictment show themselves off as shills or incompetent.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 07:56:51 PM EST
    Keeping fingers crossed...waiting for corroboration.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#42)
    by scribe on Sat May 13, 2006 at 08:02:36 PM EST
    TL: While I was commenting, your 2d update posted. I agree with you - a failure to come to an agreement is the most likely explanation for "you have 24 hours" after a 15 hour meeting. That's not the way a successful plea or settlement agreement would end up with - one would most likely negotiate a surrender time and place as a throw-in at the end of the negotiation. Speculation: Rover was holding out for either no obstruction charge and/or a recommendation for no/minimal jail time and Fitz wasn't going to budge after being dragged through however much bullsh*t Rover has already dumped. This time, Rover spun it at least once too much. That, and possibly Fitz recognized that, even if Rover was giving him Deadeye, Rover's cred is so bad/subject to devastating cross (b'ser that he is) that what Rover was offering was not going to get a conviction. Or, possibly, what Rover was offering, Fitz already had from elsewhere, such that Rover's proffer merely confirmed instead of breaking new ground and Fitz didn't need Rover's help.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 08:09:53 PM EST
    I just posted a third update, see what you think.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 08:14:40 PM EST
    Is it possible that Fitzgerald ran out of time on Friday? Doesn't he have to have the indictment signed by the Grand Jury and then present it to the judge?

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#45)
    by scribe on Sat May 13, 2006 at 08:20:40 PM EST
    TL: If we're not on the same sheet of music, we're in the same neighborhood. I think Rover's holding out for no jail and Fitz is not giving in on that point.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 08:21:49 PM EST
    Gemma, that could have been done Wednesday. Fitz could have presented it to the Judge with a motion to seal it and asked that any arrest warrant be stayed or not issued pending his voluntary surrender.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#47)
    by orionATL on Sat May 13, 2006 at 08:24:02 PM EST
    re: third update. but rove, being who and where he is, may have reason to believe that he does not have to accept any deal whatsoever. why except a deal when you may get a pardon and then can claim, for the rest of your life, that the really was no basis for the charges against you?

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#48)
    by Edger on Sat May 13, 2006 at 10:59:29 PM EST
    scribe: 39 posts and not a winger troll among them. Hmmmm, I guess everyone's off for Saturday? ... And, any pundits commenting on the speech who avoid addressing the indictment show themselves off as shills or incompetent. scribe, go easy on the learning impaired. It's hard for them. They're really not having a very good day. They're probably organizing some kind of winger troll convention where they can all work together to collect their thought (singular): Mark Kilmer at RedState May 13th, 2006: 14:15:32
    Jason Leopold at TruthOut.org insists based on nothing substantive that Rove has told the President and Josh Bolten that he will be indicted and then will resign. It's TruthOut.org, folks. Take it at face value.
    ...
    So what do we have? Rove probably won't be indicted soon and might not be indicted ever. If he is indicted, it will be for having a "foggy memory" and won't be for the charges we're actually paying Patrick Fitzgerald to investigate. If he's not indicted soon, a lot of folks on the American Left, who have howled based on naught, will have viscous and expired egg substitute on their faces, and if he is, the world ends for no one. We're fighting a war, not living a never-ending Joe Wilson book tour.
    Powerline is still trying to pull Hinderaker out of his a**rocket, and has no comment. Myself? I can't stop smiling today. :-)

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat May 13, 2006 at 11:23:26 PM EST
    You wrote:
    One question I have is whether Fitz would actually deliver a copy of the Indictment to Luskin in advance of its unsealing in Court. If it's sealed, it seems to me he can't share it. He could, howver, hand over a paper with a list of charges -- or a draft of a proposed plea agreement that contains the charges Rove must plead to to get a deal.
    I have had prosecutors from DOJ's Public Integrity Division seek authroization from the Court to reveal to me a copy of a sealed indictment. Their purpose was to have me talk a client of mine who was in Mexico come back to face charges.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#50)
    by profmarcus on Sun May 14, 2006 at 05:21:10 AM EST
    let me say, one more time, that i do not wish ill or bad times for anyone... i have closely followed karl rove for a little less than two years... i suppose it's accurate to say that he has occupied as much of my political bandwidth as any other member of the bush cabal except, perhaps, for george himself... in the course of my observations, i have come to an inescapable conclusion... karl rove is a major source of fear and darkness in this world... he has carefully and meticulously cultivated his considerable abilities in those two areas and has succeeded, very nearly single-handedly, in twisting our national discourse in ways unimaginable 20 years ago... we desperately need to have karl rove permanently removed from any centers of power, not only in the united states but in the world... maybe karl will take the opportunity, at some point in whatever years he has remaining to him, to realign himself with the forces of good... i sincerely hope that he does... in the meantime, if tomorrow morning dawns on an announcement of his resignation, i, for one, will be dancing in the street... Visit my blog: And, yes, I DO take it personally

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#51)
    by Edger on Sun May 14, 2006 at 06:38:45 AM EST
    Indicting Karl Rove is like jabbing a cornered rabid dog with a pointed stick, let's face it. Dangerous, and not at all likely to roll over and give up, the animal wants out of that corner more than anything else, and will do anything to get out of it. Anything... and rabid animals are not known for remorse or conscience. To mix metaphors, who's Rove going to throw under the train that's bearing down on him? Cheney?
    William Kristol, among the most respected of the conservative commentators--a man embraced by the Right but still on dinner-party guest lists for the center and Left--is untouchable. He is willing to speak. "Karl and I aren't really friends. I have sort of a vague and indirect relationship with him. But we talk pretty regularly. He has always been fair and straight and honest with me, despite the stories that others have about him." He pauses, as though encountering one of those beware falling rocks signs. "I believe Karl is Bush. They're not separate, each of them freestanding, with distinct agendas, as some people say. Karl thinks X. Bush thinks X. ...lots of folks here know Rove well. "Sure, I know Karl," says one man who has worked on several campaigns with him. "At the end of long days, we'd always meet at one bar or another, everybody but Karl. Where's Karl? we'd wonder. The line was always 'Oh, he's out ruining careers.' " --Ron Suskind
    Stolentime, commenting at RawStory:
    This entire administration is going to come completely unglued before this is all over and once the blood is in the water you are going to see a feeding frenzy like we've never seen before in America. There is a lot of pent up whoop ass in this country right now and once Alpa Dog starts to stagger it's gonna get ugly fast. As people start coming forward and spilling the beans on the corruption and treasonous activites of this administration... these guys may well hang.


    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#52)
    by Edger on Sun May 14, 2006 at 06:52:58 AM EST
    Advice for Karl Rove:
    ...the mother of all charges is still on the table, however close to the edge: did anyone involved in the leaks know that Plame was a covert operative? If Fitzgerald can show that someone did, whoever it is could be charged with the original crime that prompted the investigation: violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. And if Rove can help him do that with respect to Libby or Cheney, Fitzgerald might offer the good citizen a pass on jail time. To everything there is a season. Turn, Karl, turn.


    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#53)
    by squeaky on Sun May 14, 2006 at 10:03:39 AM EST
    profmarcus
    we desperately need to have karl rove permanently removed from any centers of power, not only in the united states but in the world...
    You mean like what happened to Poindexter and his pals? Ha ha ha, these guys are like the eveready bunny.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun May 14, 2006 at 10:35:55 AM EST
    Karl Rove, a man for all seasons?

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun May 14, 2006 at 11:09:32 AM EST
    difference between Rove and Col. Kurtz...Kurtz didn't have as much blood on his hands.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Sun May 14, 2006 at 11:14:54 AM EST
    deleted because it could be taken as a suggestion for violence.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#57)
    by Edger on Sun May 14, 2006 at 11:35:24 AM EST
    This is the end
    My only friend, the end
    Of our elaborate plans, the end
    Of everything that stands, the end
    No safety or surprise, the end
    Rove, to whom?

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Sun May 14, 2006 at 11:37:06 AM EST
    TL - I didnt mean literally. It was a movie reference. Ours is a revoloution of love. Sorry 'bout that.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Sun May 14, 2006 at 11:40:01 AM EST
    Karl's just a thlug - thlithering across a thtraight razor. Thats his vision...thats his nightmare.

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#60)
    by Edger on Sun May 14, 2006 at 11:53:17 AM EST
    All across the nation,
    Such a strange vibration
    People in motion
    There's a whole generation
    With a new explanation


    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#61)
    by Edger on Sun May 14, 2006 at 12:26:09 PM EST
    The earth seemed unearthly. We are accustomed to look upon the shackled form of a conquered monster, but there -- there you could look at a thing monstrous and free. It was unearthly, and the men were -- No, they were not inhuman. Well, you know, that was the worst of it -- this suspicion of their not being inhuman. It would come slowly to one. They howled and leaped, and spun, and made horrid faces; but what thrilled you was just the thought of their humanity -- like yours -- the thought of your remote kinship with this wild and passionate uproar. Ugly. Yes, it was ugly enough; but if you were man enough you would admit to yourself that there was in you just the faintest trace of a response to the terrible frankness of that noise, a dim suspicion of there being a meaning in it which you -- you so remote from the night of first ages -- could comprehend. And why not? The mind of man is capable of anything -- because everything is in it, all the past as well as all the future. What was there after all? Joy, fear, sorrow, devotion, valour, rage -- who can tell? -- but truth -- truth stripped of its cloak of time. --Heart of Darkness


    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#62)
    by Edger on Sun May 14, 2006 at 06:38:09 PM EST
    Could Jason's "high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning" have set him up? He's written many good articles skewering many powerful people, and he seems to have sources no one else has access to. Is it possible he was fed a "big lie" to destroy his credibility?

    Re: Breaking Report: Karl Rove Indicted (none / 0) (#63)
    by Edger on Sun May 14, 2006 at 07:11:49 PM EST
    I ask because there has been no corroboration of Jason's story, and so far today I have seen two sites impugning his professionalism, ability and credibility - portraying him as drug damaged and incompetent, which we know from his past writings he is not. One of the sites, Dummie Funnies, is written by someone who calls himself PJ-Comix and describes himself as a "30,000 year old reincarnated being from the 5th dimension who materlializes inside a Vegas hotel room every 6000 years. The other is a National Review article by Byron York linked to by DaveW today in the "Non-Conversation" thread. Neither one has much credibility themselves, I think. But what's going on here?