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Moussaoui Gets Life

By TChris, Section Terror Trials
Posted on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:04:38 PM EST
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Bump and Update: (TL) I just got to my destination. When the driver turned on the radio in the car leaving the airport, I asked about Moussaoui. He told me the jury came back with life and I shouted "Yes!" and threw my arm up in the air. I proceeded to tell him for the next 20 minutes how proud I was of the defense team in this case and what they had to work against -- not only the investment of the country in a death verdict to retaliate against someone for 9/11 -- but their own client who hated them and not only wouldn't assist them, but tried to sabotage them at every turn. Their dedication and professionalism is astounding. I've read every public filing in the case and they did such an incredible job for this crazy, bumbling holy warrior.

I then launched into a lecture about what was facing Moussaoui when he got to Supermax in Florence, where he will spend the rest of his days. Then we listened to the news and I heard that Moussaoui's words after the verdict were something like "America Lost, I Won" and I said to the driver, "He'll eat those words when he gets to Florence." It's not called Alcatraz of the Rockies for nothing. Without lawyers visiting him and sending him pleadings to read, and with virtually no human contact, lights shining on 24/7 as his every move in his tiny, windowless cell is monitored (at least for the first few months), he'll realize he got the short end of the stick pretty quickly.

Had he only cooperated with his lawyers, and not insisted on pleading guilty, perhaps his trial could have been about whether he was a co-conspirator in 9/11 and therefore legally responsible for it. Al Qaeda abandoned him years ago, he doesn't even have them any more. And any hope of martyrdom went down the drain with the life verdict. He will become a footnote in the history of 9/11.

One more thought. This is not a victory for America. Moussaoui had no role in 9/11. Cheering on al Qaeda and hoping they succeed -- and celebrating when they did -- does not make one a co-conspirator.

The scorecard remains: Al Qaeda: 3,000 killed on 9/11. Number of responsible persons brought to justice: None.

Where is Osama? Bush still can't find him.

Analysis of verdict is here. . The jury verdict listing their votes on aggravating and mitigating factors is here (pdf.)

Update:(TL) The verdict form is here (pdf). Interstingly, the martyr argument didn't sway them. 9 jurors found his difficult childhood and abusive father to be a mitigating factor. One juror came up with an additional mitigating factor -- he had minimal knowledge of 9/11.

The defense pointed out after the verdict that one of the reasons for the life verdict may have been their decision to call relatives of victims as defense witnesses. By calling those who did not want the death penalty, even though they couldn't say as much to the jury, their inferences were clear, and jurors may have felt they had "permission" to sentence to life.

**********
Original Post:

by TChris

Zacarias Moussaoui may have hoped to die a martyr's death, but his jury handed him a different fate: life in prison.

On the seventh day of deliberation, the jury of nine men and three women informed Judge Leonie Brinkema that it had reached a decision.

After four years of preparation and a six week trial, the government (with Moussaoui's help) managed to convict Moussaoui, but failed to convince the jury that he should be executed. This is an extraordinary result by dedicated defense lawyers who were challenged by their client as much as (perhaps more than) the government.

TalkLeft's Moussaoui coverage is collected here.

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    Moussaoui Gets Life | 65 comments (65 topical)
    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#1)
    by caramel on Wed May 03, 2006 at 02:50:30 PM EST
    Finally the only possible verdict! I couldn't really talk before the trial was over because I worked closely to this case for the last four years and honestly the manipulation from the prosecution side has been on the level with the defense team's manipulation. The whole case is a shame for the American Justice system. It is sick to see a human being - no matter how disturbing (and disturbed) his beliefs might be - sentenced to LWOP for intentions and words. It's pathetic.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#2)
    by jimcee on Wed May 03, 2006 at 03:01:23 PM EST
    It was a good decision on the part of the jury. Though he might have been a danger if he wasn't arrested he isn't now and it seems as though he has some real issues (or mental problems) but he hasn't actually killed anyone that we know of....so life, solitary confinement, no parole sounds about right. And besides it delays his martyrdom. Kudos to the defense and to the jury.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#3)
    by caramel on Wed May 03, 2006 at 03:06:11 PM EST
    Yes he is probably dangerous but the facts do not warrant an LWOP sentence, if he had been tried in France for assocation to a terrorist organization, he would have gotten 10 years at the most. I agree that it's good thing for him to be behind bars for now, but certainly not for the rest of his life.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 03:16:15 PM EST
    Simplistically, if he is mentally ill, then he should be given treatment, and not be given any chance at parole until that treatment is successful. If he is not mentally ill, then I am okay with this verdict. If you are serious enough about your plans to take flight lessons over a period of time to crash airplanes and you haven't killed anyone because you were caught, I am okay with dropping you into a prison until the end of time. To good verdicts in two days. Moussaoi today, a judgment in my favor in family court yesterday. current m00d: not completely fedup with the judicial system.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#5)
    by squeaky on Wed May 03, 2006 at 04:08:53 PM EST
    Well I guess that makes us the #1 vengeful socitey on the planet. Wasn't all the killing and destruction in Iraq and Afghanistan enough. When does it stop?

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 04:20:21 PM EST
    Squeaky: What kind of verdict did you want? My vote for more vengeful societies would be China, NK, many muslim countries and many African countries.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#7)
    by fry1laurie on Wed May 03, 2006 at 04:21:42 PM EST
    I'm taking bets on which Republican congressman or senator will be the first to introduce legislation which will take death penalty decisions in terror cases away from juries.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Wed May 03, 2006 at 05:20:36 PM EST
    Wylie E. Coyote-There was no choice other than death or life in prison. Irrespective of that everything I have read about him and the case points to a very crazy individual. Too crazy for the terrorists but not too crazy to bear the brunt of the hostility, vengeance and frustration of america for not finding the perpetrators of 9/11. He should have been committed to the looney bin for treatment.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 03, 2006 at 05:48:16 PM EST
    The question now becomes who and how many will die as his buds attempt to ransom him free?

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Wed May 03, 2006 at 05:53:00 PM EST
    ppj-his "buds' cut him loose a long time ago. He was of no use to them.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:11:00 PM EST
    ppj, this thread is about Moussaoui, not you. Instead of trolling, how about commenting?

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:12:59 PM EST
    Squeaky: Too crazy for the terrorists but not too crazy to bear the brunt of the hostility, vengeance and frustration of america for not finding the perpetrators of 9/11. I think you hit the nail on the head there, Squeaky. Too messed up to work with his lawyers to coordinate mounting a proper defence for himself. Too nutty to agree to an insanity plea, which I think is an issue in itself. Why such a plea should require cooperation from an incompetent defendant who cannot understand it is beyond me. He was the perfect scapegoat with his delusional claims and fantasizing of a major role in Al-Qaeda. At least the jury was smart enough to not want to kill a severely handicapped man. Kudos to them for that. Incapable mentally, and obviously ill, he never had a chance, and the saddest part of it all is that there will always be a part of America that perhaps is just as ill as Moussaoui, and will delude themselves that some kind of justice, retribution, and payback has been achieved...

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:40:11 PM EST
    sailor - My comment was dead on the issue of the verdict. How about you minding your own business and let someone else run the blog? And why the attack when TL has asked us repeatedly to not do so?

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:42:20 PM EST
    Squeaky - He wasn't then, he is now. My point has been that we should execute him to demonstrate to the Moslem world that we are strong enough to take need action. That we did not is a failure.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:42:38 PM EST
    Sailor is right. This thread is about Moussaoui.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:45:56 PM EST
    this guy is nut's keep him in prison until he is 90 years old. but also understand one fact the USA Only has about 5 more years as a nation.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#17)
    by Johnny on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:47:59 PM EST
    The question now becomes who and how many will die as his buds attempt to ransom him free?
    So you buying the beer when nothing of the sort happens? Because, you know, the extremes to which Al Qaeda has already gone to demonstrate their desire to free this man... oh wait, never mind. This verdict is a victory for the AntiDP group. It was the right verdict.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:50:00 PM EST
    He wasn't then, he is now.
    ppj magic. poof

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#19)
    by desertswine on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:00:53 PM EST
    "The jury... uhh... convicted him to life in prison where he'll spend the rest of his life." - a very disappointed Georgie

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:03:47 PM EST
    From tristero:
    President Bush said Wednesday the verdict rejecting the death penalty for al-Qaida conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui 'represents the end of this case but not an end to the fight against terror.' Without commenting directly on the jury's decision, Bush declared, 'Evil will not have the final say. This great nation will prevail.'
    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:09:38 PM EST
    Bush declared, 'Evil will not have the final say. This great nation will prevail.' This is maybe the second true public statement bush has made in the past 6 years, though he may not understand in what sense. The nation will be rid of the likes of bush eventually...

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:11:12 PM EST
    Evil will not have the final say, Let us all to god now pray. I thought that you mite, Come down and smite. Guess you're having a merciful day.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:43:28 PM EST
    I'm proud of that jury. Bloodlust does not always trump justice.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:50:10 PM EST
    I'm proud of that jury. Me too. Much as he deserves worse, I hope bush gets the same jury when his turn comes...

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:53:33 PM EST
    Supermax in Florence, ... lights shining on 24/7 as his every move Is Supermax a prison or a big box store?

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:55:14 PM EST
    "My point has been that we should execute him to demonstrate to the Moslem world that we are strong enough to take need action." Sigh, your proposed action would only demonstrate weakness in the Moslem world. Why do you keep trying to do the exact, wrong thing every time? You respond as you think a "man" would, yet observers see a pussy. Enjoy your fantasy.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 08:03:40 PM EST
    My comment was dead on the issue of the verdict. Yes it was, unless you meant this.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#28)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed May 03, 2006 at 08:06:57 PM EST
    Jim, The thought of some group taking hostages or whatever and demanding Moussaoui's release is almost comical. For even one person it would be a tremendous bargain. They would get back a crazy guy that anyone in this country would recognize on sight. Wow. Not that our Govt would ever bargain like that.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 08:23:28 PM EST
    I remember the late Alistair Cooke remarking that he thought the death penalty more merciful than LOP, which is why I support the verdict in this case.
    How about you minding your own business and let someone else run the blog?
    This is risible, coming from someone who makes it 'their business' to tell some of the folks here where they are deficient in their logic, understanding of history, etc. PPJ, from whence came this notion about Moussaoui being 'rescued' by his AQ buddies? It seems a bizzare thought, as an operation to 'commemorate' his 'martyrdom' would be just as likely, so on those grounds, this sentence has probably saved many lives on this basis along.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 09:00:43 PM EST
    The U.S. government has never looked worse. Moussaoui's tangential involvement would not have been grounds for execution in any other criminal case, but the Bushies had to kill someone for the crime, or look utterly impotent. Moussaoui was the only one available so he was it. They call it justice. I call it revenge. It is beneath a civilized country. That circus with all the wailing relatives, what did that have to do with establishing guilt or innocence? Not a damn thing. It was about arousing the jury's lust for blood. Well, you never looked as impotent as now, Bushies!

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#31)
    by BigTex on Thu May 04, 2006 at 12:13:19 AM EST
    No one wins with this verdict. While he didn't deserve death because of his minimal knowledge, coupled with the fact that the FBI/CIA/NSA et al pretty much ignored all warning signs, meant that no difference would have happened if he had come forth. The fact that he didn't get the death penalty doesn't mean that justice was served. Someone who holds that much hatred for the USA should not be allowed to live here. He will never escape, but Poker is right, some equally looney fringe group will kidnap someone and demand the release of all jihad prisoners. This will include him. To hold him in the US means that more innocents will suffer because of him. No there was no victory today.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#32)
    by Edger on Thu May 04, 2006 at 12:42:21 AM EST
    He should have been committed to the looney bin for treatment. Incapable mentally, and obviously ill, he never had a chance, and the saddest part of it all is that there will always be a part of America that perhaps is just as ill as Moussaoui, and will delude themselves that some kind of justice, retribution, and payback has been achieved... ...or would have been, if only he had been given the death penalty. The solution always, of course, is that the more people who die the less problems we'll have...
    The fact that he didn't get the death penalty doesn't mean that justice was served.
    Through the looking glass again...

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#33)
    by Johnny on Thu May 04, 2006 at 12:50:42 AM EST
    but Poker is right, some equally looney fringe group will kidnap someone and demand the release of all jihad prisoners. This will include him.
    That is upping the ante quite a bit from Jims original ludicrous statement isn't it? Why not take it further and put Moussaoui in with every group that has ever been used for ransom? That would virtually assure Jim (and you) are proven correct. Besides, the more you and Jim talk about it, the more confident Al Qaeda will be to attempt such a thing. Why do you and Jim hate America?

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#34)
    by HK on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:54:58 AM EST
    It was madness that the death penalty was ever on the cards for Moussaoui. And that his defence couldn't submit an insanity plea without his permission is laughable. LWOP is not a soft option and I don't think it is necessary or appropriate in many cases. But in this case, the jury made as right a decision as possible in a very wrong situation.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 04:22:59 AM EST
    So much clamour he be put to the sword, A lifetime sentence says the rest of the horde. His sentence be, If up to me. I just get him a crib in the lower ninth ward.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#36)
    by BigTex on Thu May 04, 2006 at 05:59:42 AM EST
    Why do you and Jim hate America?
    Why do you resort to baseless personal attacks that have no bearig on fact or reality? Disagree with someone, and you say they hate America. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they hate this country. In this case it's even worse. Not only does a person have to hold the same view as you, they have to hold the same ideology. Remember, I didn't say he should be executed. I just said that there was no good solution. Your post is a prime example of thought police running amok. You are a disgusting wretch of an individual.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#37)
    by Edger on Thu May 04, 2006 at 06:08:25 AM EST
    Tex, don't be so touchy, man. Johnny was being satirical. An often used tactic of bushco supporters, and of bush himself, has long been to accuse those who oppose them or do not subscribe to their views or ideology of hating America, of giving aid and encouragement to terrorism. And you know it.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 04, 2006 at 06:21:40 AM EST
    Sky Ho writes:
    You respond as you think a "man" would, yet observers see a pussy.
    Nice demonstration of lack of vocabulary and an even nicer demonstration of a lack of understanding of Moslem society. The Moslem world does not respect weakness, and they do not understand us when we do the opposite of what they would. What you see as strength, failure to execute our enemies, they see as weakness. I.e. We have no stomach for a fight. Their belief that we will cut and run is founded on our actions in Vietnam, Lebanon, Somali.... And the terrorists have articulated that belief time and again. So by not executing him, we tell the so-called moderate Moslems that we are weak. This means they will not actively oppose the radicals, but remain on the sidelines.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#39)
    by BigTex on Thu May 04, 2006 at 06:21:53 AM EST
    Tex, don't be so touchy, man. Johnny was being satirical.
    If he was, then I apologise. That didn't have the look or feel of sarcasm though.
    And you know it.
    Yes, but that doesn't mean that I support that type of personal attack not on the issues. It's wrong no matter who makes the statement. Ideas should be discussed on their merits, not on baseless ad hominum attacks.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edger on Thu May 04, 2006 at 06:44:38 AM EST
    Tex: that type of personal attack not on the issues. It's wrong no matter who makes the statement. Yes it is. And it's also often done in a very dishonest manner by sneaking in a thinly disguised redefinition of a word such as "weakness" (see the post above yours), then using that word as the basisi of even more thinly disguised attacks and accusations of encouraging terrorism.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Thu May 04, 2006 at 08:05:28 AM EST
    What a hoot. ppj opining on the Muslim character. He has never met one in his life and is now an expert. Must have taken one of those fox correspondence courses.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 08:48:07 AM EST
    No one has attempted to break Sheik Abdel Rahman (old blue eye) out, nor has anyone tried to break out Ramzi Yusef. Jim defies logic when he tries to make the case that they would do that with Mousasoui

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 08:50:27 AM EST
    I'm awaiting with bated breath PPJ's extensive psychological/sociological analysis of the "Muslim" world, based on his reading and commentary of the latest scholarship in English, Arabic, French, Turkish, Farsi, etc.............

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 08:51:37 AM EST
    The Moslem world does not respect weakness, and they do not understand us when we do the opposite of what they would.
    Look up what happened at the end of the Battle of Manzikert. The Seljik Turk leader, Alp Arslan, had captured the Byzantine Emperor Romanus IV. He treated his captured enemy with respect, offered him the peace treaty he'd offered before the battle (no extra terms even though he'd won), and sent him home with gifts and a military escort to protect him from attack until he reached Byzantium. The conversation the two had was recorded at the time: Alp Arslan: "What would you do if I was brought before you as a prisoner?" Romanus: "Perhaps I'd kill you, or exhibit you in the streets of Constantinople." Alp Arslan: "My punishment is far heavier. I forgive you, and set you free." Yeah, those Muslims just don't know weakness and strength, do they?

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 09:21:55 AM EST
    So by not executing him, we tell the so-called moderate Moslems that we are weak.
    Wrong!!! we showed the moderates that we are SMART!!. All Moslims aren't terrorists. That's a fact, Jim.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 04, 2006 at 10:18:13 AM EST
    KeithM - As history, interesting. Now quote me something a bit more current and reflective of the current ME situation. debbie - You continue to demonstrate your ability to respond to something I never said. My point was that the moderate Moslems will see our respone as a weakness and will not oppose the terrorists among them due to their fear that we will cut and run. edger - Nice sneak in yourself. And show me where I redefined "weakness." I said that the moslem world does not respect what they see as a weakness. Now you disagree that they will consider our actions as a weakness, fine. But why claim I did something I did not? Makes me believe your position is weak. Squeaky - You have no idea as to who I have met, where I have spent time, etc. You remarks are just another smear attempt by you, a trait you have bragged about before. Big Tex - Johnny wasn't being sarcastic, don't let'em kid you. He meant what he said as a snarky, nasty remark. i.e. That if we disagree with his vision, we hate America because his vision is right and ours is wrong.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#47)
    by squeaky on Thu May 04, 2006 at 10:31:40 AM EST
    ppj-
    Squeaky - You have no idea as to who I have met, where I have spent time, etc. You remarks are just another smear attempt by you, a trait you have bragged about before.
    I have asked you five or six times if you know any moslems. Your lack of response means that you do not know any. Do you know any muslims? Where do you get your expertise on the muslim character? As charlie would say: Just as I thought.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#48)
    by Johnny on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:26:11 PM EST
    Disagree with someone, and you say they hate America. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they hate this country. In this case it's even worse. Not only does a person have to hold the same view as you, they have to hold the same ideology. Remember, I didn't say he should be executed. I just said that there was no good solution. Your post is a prime example of thought police running amok. You are a disgusting wretch of an individual.
    Ahem. Get bent Tex. Jim, see above.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#49)
    by Johnny on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:27:34 PM EST
    we hate America because his vision is right and ours is wrong.
    Nice Jim. Coming from you of all people, that is literally a hoot. Why do you hate free speech and by extension, America?

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#50)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:44:26 PM EST
    KeithM - As history, interesting. Now quote me something a bit more current and reflective of the current ME situation. Jill Carroll.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#51)
    by Sailor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:54:50 PM EST
    BigTex, the 'hate America' line was satire, because it is what the wrongwingers constantly accuse anyone who disagrees with them of doing. just like ppj proved, yet again. ppj has attack my service, my patriotism and my honesty, along with almost everyone else here who disagrees with him. It is such a silly accusation by them and has been used so often by them that it has become a catch-phrase for (lack of a better term) lefties. I like that you and Patrick and several others make cogent points, even if I don't agree with them. But I don't think ppj does any honest debate, he constantly attempts to change the subject and he tries to make it 'all about jim.' I think the site would be much better off w/o him. Maybe the rest of us could find some common ground, or at least gain a better understanding of the other fellows POV, if there wasn't so much static to wde thru.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#52)
    by Sailor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 03:10:55 PM EST
    Oh, BTW, Tex meet Johnny, Johnny meet BigTex. There, now you've been properly introduced. Johnny, I think BigTex took your remark seriously, not understanding its origins. His comment was insulting, but he qualified it as being dependent on your being serious about it. I think Tex takes the America hating thing very seriously. He doesn't get accused of it every day like we do. Tex, I think Johnny overreacted to your comment. Once you were made aware of J's satirical bent you qualified it. ppj was just egging you on. So guys, disagree all you want, but don't let a simple misunderstanding get in the way of actually reading each other's comments in the future.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#53)
    by Johnny on Thu May 04, 2006 at 04:13:14 PM EST
    ppj was just egging you on.
    Not the Poker Player! Seriously, the more you guys talk about how weak America is, the more likely the turrists are to attack. Right?

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#54)
    by BigTex on Thu May 04, 2006 at 05:36:15 PM EST
    Tex, I think Johnny overreacted to your comment. Once you were made aware of J's satirical bent you qualified it. ppj was just egging you on. So guys, disagree all you want, but don't let a simple misunderstanding get in the way of actually reading each other's comments in the future.
    Thanks for stepping in and acting as peace broker. You are absloutley correct on what my POV was. This was, as you suggest a simple misunderstanding, Jonny's comments in reply were water off of a duck's back.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 04, 2006 at 07:14:14 PM EST
    Squeaky - Now let me see. If you ask me something and I don't reply, then that means whatever you want it to mean. Have I got that correct? Che - I'll give you Jill Carrol and raise you Daniel Pearl. Plus a very large number of Iraeli citizens. Sailor - I love you too. And I haven't attacked your service, I merely said that you hadn't served, which you instantly and in high dungeon corrected. There is a vast difference in your claim and what I did. Why do you do that? Your problem is that you seem to think that it is your place be the editor. et al - Note that I made a comment that sooner or later someone will be killed as a result of Moussaoui's "friends" attempting to rescue him. Seems simple enough to me, yet Sailor immediately attacks, claiming that:
    ppj, this thread is about Moussaoui, not you. Instead of trolling, how about commenting?
    So a comment about the sentence leaving open the chance that people will be killed because he is still alive is about me? I then made a further comment that our failure to act in a manner that would be recognized as strength by the moderate Moslems....i.e. the "Moslem Street" brings such deep questions as, "How many Moslems do you know?" Tell me. Is anyone here actually willing to posit that the Moslem culture doesn't view defending yourself as "strength" and not doing so "weak?" And that based on that allowing Moussaoui to live has given the terrorist a victory?

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#56)
    by Sailor on Thu May 04, 2006 at 08:51:01 PM EST
    Thanks BigTex, Johnny. I bet in the future we're gonna all disagree;-)

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 03:25:58 AM EST
    When I see or read or hear, Folks all a quaking like frightened dear. Government spin, Has sucked you in. Right where they want you, a climate of fear.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#58)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 03:33:25 AM EST
    Oh dear and deary me, Now it's up for all to see. Poor I spell, Can't you tell. Deer, flunked my spelling B.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 08:13:09 AM EST
    Note that I made a comment that sooner or later someone will be killed as a result of Moussaoui's "friends" attempting to rescue him And of course, you may note that PPJ never states his reasoning behind this wild assertion, why his 'friends' who cut him loose would be willing to kill for someone who would be a hinderance and not a help in their organization, unless PPJ thinks that Al Qaeda believes in helping the handicapped and giving folks a second chance :>) Your death-oriented fantasies are interesting, PPJ, but I'm not sure you've found the right outlet for them yet.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 09:24:37 AM EST
    PPJ, also ignored my comment that no one has tried to "rescue" Sheik Abdel Rahman or Ramzi Yusef, so what does he base his claim on that someone will attempt to "rescue" Moussaoui, a minor figure in all this? My advice: stop renting First Blood and its sequels.

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:27:57 AM EST
    Randy P and Dark Avenger - Heaven forbid that we would have speculation on the Internet. And friends come and friends go. Of course if the French get their hands on him then he may not need to be ransomed... I note that you didn't touch my contention re strength and weakness...

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:28:34 AM EST
    Randy P and Dark Avenger - Heaven forbid that we would have speculation on the Internet. And friends come and friends go. Of course if the French get their hands on him then he may not need to be ransomed... I note that you didn't touch my contention re strength and weakness...

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:29:26 AM EST
    Randy P and Dark Avenger - Heaven forbid that we would have speculation on the Internet. And friends come and friends go. Of course if the French get their hands on him then he may not need to be ransomed... I note that you didn't touch my contention re strength and weakness...

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#64)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 01:31:22 PM EST
    Caramel.... if he had been tried in France for assocation to a terrorist organization, he would have gotten 10 years at the most. LOL...that's a good one. The French are panzies... and will continue to have terrorists problems for the very reason you cite. Squeaky.... Well I guess that makes us the #1 vengeful socitey on the planet. So what are we suppose to do...let everyone go ..? so we're not "Vengeful". Let's hear your squeaky clean plan

    Re: Moussaoui Gets Life (none / 0) (#65)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri May 05, 2006 at 01:55:26 PM EST
    Heaven forbid that we would have speculation on the Internet. Hey, you can speculate all you want, but you have to then be prepared to have the logic and/or reasoning behind such a speculation analyzed and reacted to. Can you show me in this thread where RP or I said that you shouldn't speculate on the Internet? Heaven forbid that anyone respond to speculation on the Internet, that would be just too much! BWT, et al: As Randy Paul noted, they haven't tried to free those terrorists who are incarcerated, and who unlike Moussaoui, would be of operational use to Al Quaeda. And friends come and friends go. Whoever might turn out to be his friends, they'd have to have a minder with him, unless you think watching over someone as crazy as Moussaoui is easy..... Of course if the French get their hands on him then he may not need to be ransomed.. I do wish you would quit speculating that the current malAdministration would do such a thing, PPJ. Have you become a BHAW all of a sudden? I note that you didn't touch my contention re strength and weakness... PPJ, you once stated that you're not obliged to respond to this or that post, don't you think that goes the other way as well?

    Moussaoui Gets Life | 65 comments (65 topical)