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Mission Accomplished II

By TChris, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Tue May 02, 2006 at 12:39:07 PM EST
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by TChris

A "turning point" has finally been reached in Iraq. How do we know? The ever-optimistic president said so yesterday, on the third anniversary of his "Mission Accomplished" speech. Remember "Mission Accomplished"?

It didn't turn out that way.

Violence in Iraq continued instead of ebbed. In the six weeks from the start of the invasion to Bush's speech, 139 U.S. soldiers had died. In the three years since, as of Sunday, there have been another 2,258 U.S. military deaths in Iraq -- an average of 63 each month.

The latest "turning point" may mark a turn from disaster to chaos.

reliable electrical power is scarce, petty corruption is rampant and the government's Interior ministry is blamed for harboring death squads that are helping to drive sectarian violence.

In a frank assessment, the No. 2 U.S. intelligence official, Gen. Michael Hayden, said last week that the war in Iraq currently inspires jihadists, but their failure there would weaken the movement globally. The U.S., he said, must not forget the importance of Iraq.

"The conflict there and -- more importantly -- how it is routinely portrayed in Islamic media continues to cultivate supporters for the global jihadist movement," Hayden told an audience in Texas during a little-noticed speech.

Hayden's reference to the ultimate "failure" of the jihadists may represent wishful thinking, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that the continued presence of U.S. forces in Iraq encourages further violence and assists the recruitment of new insurgents. The mission -- however it might now be defined -- will never be accomplished if the U.S. continues to have a strong military presence in Iraq.

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    Mission Accomplished II | 47 comments (47 topical)
    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Tue May 02, 2006 at 12:59:59 PM EST
    This war has more "turning points" than a perfect circle.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#2)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:21:39 PM EST
    Colbert really ripped Peter Pace, et al when he remarked about how much courage it takes to stand at a bank of computers and order men into battle. Too bad Rummy wasn't there for his ass wooping.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#3)
    by desertswine on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:41:56 PM EST
    More than 2400 American military deaths in Iraq due to George's War. Congratulations George. Iraqi deaths? "We don't do body counts." - Gen. Tommy Franks

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:50:29 PM EST
    When the president says he is staying the course it reminds me of the man who has just jumped from the Empire State Building. Half-way down he says, I am still on course. Well, I would not want to be on course with a man who will lie splattered in the street. I would like to be someone who could change the course... Our invasion of Iraq has made it a homeland for al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups.
    Stay the Crooked Course

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#5)
    by soccerdad on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:22:10 PM EST
    First we know that the US is never going to voluntarily get out of Iraq. They are not building that gigantic embassy and those military bases for nothing. In the twisted world of the neocons the current diaster in Iraq will eventually work in their favor. The more jihadists means more attacks here in the US and Europe. The more attacks the easier it will be to mobalize the sheep behind the imperialistic wars in the ME. As the whole region descends into chaos it will be easier to convince the oil starved [ resulting from the increased chaos] allies to band together and take back their oil. Its like going out in your back yard and hitting a bees nest with a stick, complaining that you got stung and then going out and destroying it. How can it be stopped? I'm not convinced it can be.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:46:42 PM EST
    Yesterday on Hardball, Matthews "misquoted" the number of American soldiers killed in Iraq by about 150. The true number of 2400 is a lot easier to remember than the BS he asserted, which leave me suspicious as to intent. Later in the program Senator Kennedy discretely gave the viewers the correct number, at which time Matthews quickly interrupted. Just another small example of accuracy in reporting.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:47:19 PM EST
    Yesterday on Hardball, Matthews "misquoted" the number of American soldiers killed in Iraq by about 150. The true number of 2400 is a lot easier to remember than the BS he asserted, which leave me suspicious as to intent. Later in the program Senator Kennedy discretely gave the viewers the correct number, at which time Matthews quickly interrupted. Just another small example of accuracy in reporting.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:55:24 PM EST
    Twenty four hundred US, one hundred Brits, countless thousands of Iraqies, all dead. The blood and the buck stop with one man. A short report here of a war criminals reaction to a few unpalatable truths.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#9)
    by desertswine on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:55:34 PM EST
    They are not building that gigantic embassy and those military bases for nothing.
    The embassy is actually a 104-acre fort. No, we're not leaving that, and those huge bases anytime soon, probably not in our lifetimes.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:55:51 PM EST
    The mission -- however it might now be defined -- will never be accomplished if the U.S. continues to have a strong military presence in Iraq.
    Can someone honestly define the mission? What happens when we rapidly pull out troopos?

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:10:29 PM EST
    I think it involves helicopters and roofs, and humiliation. And no matter how high the butchers bill it will be the latter that will dictate policy as much as strategic interest in the area.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:12:24 PM EST
    TChris would have been pulling for withdrawal from Europe in 1944-1945, due to the "clearly resurgent" German forces at the Battle of the Bulge. Likewise, he would have panicked over the raid at Monocacy in early 1865 that nearly reached Washington. He also would have had the vapors over the German offensive that sputtered in early 1918. Has it occurred to you that levels of violence are not necessarily reflective of the military situation on the ground? Heck, if the opposing attorney makes a great speech in his opening statement, do you just pack it in?

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:25:28 PM EST
    Stop please. Come out of your bubble. The situation on the ground is an unmitigated disasster. The world sees it for that, unequivocly. Your President is seen for what he truly is, an incompetent vindictive failure and is deservadly a laughing stock. How much longer will you continue to endorse sending young men to their deaths for a failed policy and a failed little man. Wake up for christs sake.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:31:04 PM EST
    And stop trying to draw parrallels with WW11, it shoots your own arguement down in flames. Try vietnam, because the USA was there for a reason, because it wanted to be. Exactly as it is in Iraq. Totally, totally immoral.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:32:30 PM EST
    What does ww2 have to do with Iraq? Germany attacked multiple countries in Europe and their ally, Japan directly attacked the US. Iraqs only crime was having oil.Why do you make such idiotic statements? Is it your medication?

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#16)
    by Sailor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:36:34 PM EST
    turning a corner last throes mission accomplished great progress WMDs lies, all lies.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:37:23 PM EST
    Agreed the WWII analogy is spent. I think what we're seeing here is the inability of the Army to get a full committment from the Iraqi populace to help us remove terrorists (especially the sunni community sheltering al qaeda types) from their cities and towns. Now most of this is structural in my view (rumsfeld you are truly terrible) but I don't believe we can pull out now, maybe before the Shiite Death Squads got into full swing, but not now. The last thing we as Americans need is more b.s. on how this is like WWII, we're fighting a homegrown insurgency with a dash of civil war, let's take that and try and work something out. Before we go messing with Iran that is.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#18)
    by desertswine on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:49:35 PM EST
    TChris would have been pulling for withdrawal from Europe in 1944-1945, due to the "clearly resurgent" German forces at the Battle of the Bulge. Likewise, he would have panicked over the raid at Monocacy in early 1865 that nearly reached Washington. He also would have had the vapors over the German offensive that sputtered in early 1918.
    I call bullsh*t on this.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:32:32 PM EST
    Before we moralise and pontificate as to what we should expect of the Iraquies, I would ask you in a quiet half hour to read this article by Arthur, for my money the finest writer by far on the internet. For those not familiar, his insight is second to none, and his execution of the written word pearless. It is not a short article, but it is entirely readable. Having had a taste I am sure you will be hooked. Your feedback sometime would be interesting and welcome. Enjoy.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#20)
    by roger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:40:17 PM EST
    In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny: "What a maroon!"

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#21)
    by Repack Rider on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:15:57 PM EST
    JR: TChris would have been pulling for withdrawal from Europe in 1944-1945, due to the "clearly resurgent" German forces at the Battle of the Bulge. Are you saying that Iraq declared war on us like Germany did? I must have missed that. When did it happen? Why has it been kept such a secret? Don't you realize that if the world found out what you know, that Iraq had secretly declared war on the United States, it would change everything? If you are keeping this important news secret, why do you hate America?

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:06:54 PM EST
    Most commenters here have a lot of trouble following a simple argument. I gave a few examples, and said this:
    Has it occurred to you that levels of violence are not necessarily reflective of the military situation on the ground?
    To anyone capable of reading with comprehension, I was not drawing any equivalence between this and any past conflict - not WWII, not WWI, not the US Civil War. What I was pointing out was that large scale spasms of violence are possible - and have happened before - when a particular side has lost a conflict. That was my point. Sadly missed by everyone here.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:17:52 PM EST
    Just read some of the books PNAC signatories like the Kagens and the Podhoretzs write and you begin to understand that these people view the world as one "nasty,brutish and short" ruthless Hobbesian competition for scarce resources in which might essentially makes right, the past is the only reliable template for the future - hence the constant referencing of every bloody debacle from the Peloponnesian War to WWII - and whatever elite noncombatant faction of whatever tribe they've associated themselves with is the only one that matters. These are people so completely identified with thier own cynicism and egoism that faced with temporary lack of foreign oppurtunities to exploit, would probobly not hesitate to cut each others throats if they saw any short-term advantage in it.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:25:55 PM EST
    JR, like usual your point is pointless, because there was no reason for anybody to die in Iraq.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#25)
    by Al on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:27:01 PM EST
    JR, you just don't know when to shut up, do you? What was all that rubbish about the Battle of the Bulge, if not a comparison with World War II? And you even have the gall to criticize the commenters for supposedly missing your point? Your point, JR, is that the US military in Iraq may yet defeat the insurgency. No, they won't. And it's unlikely they will control the oil, either. Whoever steps up and call themselves the government in Iraq know perfectly well that they are far more beholden to the local insurgents who can kill them and their families than to the US forces, who can offer them no protection whatsoever. Don't expect Halliburton to control the Iraqi oilfields any time soon. Now, JR, go back and play with your tin soldiers.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#26)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:32:22 PM EST
    Oscar - Arthur Silber's article is a very good one. Thanks for the link. He also wrote Lunatic World on April 16:
    It is only the doctrine of Western "exceptionalism" (see here and here, for example) that permits this lunacy to go largely unremarked.
    ...
    Note that, to date, not one major voice in the United States or in the West has denounced in absolute, unmistakable terms the moral depravity and monstrousness of an attack on Iran in the current circumstances.
    ...
    We should not be surprised, whatever may happen now. A lunatic ideology rules us, and almost everyone takes it for granted. And practically no one is protesting against it in any serious manner at all.
    The mission is almost accomplished... we're nearly there... just give George a little more time... he has has not only continued a murderous policy that has been pursued by successive US administrations for nearly a century, he has drastically expanded that policy and pushed it so far that we now stand on the edge of an abyss looking into apocalyptic hell.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:33:03 PM EST
    Al, The US has defeated insurgencies before - it's you that knows little of history. Post Spanish-American war, in the Phillipines. Heck, in Korea, the massive numbers of China didn't help them - they came to the negotiation table because the US military was giving them better than an 8-1 loss ratio - which they decided was unsupportable. You haven't wondered why suicide bombings in Iraq have dropped off? It hasn't occurred to you that fewer people are willing to die in a losing cause?

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#28)
    by Sailor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:36:57 PM EST
    jr, it wasn't missed, it just isn't appicable. No snark or insult intended, but the WWII scenario has nothing to do with iraq.
    what we're seeing here is the inability of the Army to get a full committment from the Iraqi populace to help us remove terrorists
    It's a civil war composed of religious factions who fought for a thousand tears* before we invaded. And why would the populace help when we've killed more of their fellows than the 'insurgents' have? *actually, that was a typo, but on second thought, I think it works better;-)

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#29)
    by Sailor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:47:47 PM EST
    You haven't wondered why suicide bombings in Iraq have dropped off? It hasn't occurred to you that fewer people are willing to die in a losing cause?
    No, suiciders are down because now they don't have to die for their cause, they can fight for it. You do know that this April was one of the deadliest months for our troops since the invasion began ... don't you?

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#30)
    by soccerdad on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:50:59 PM EST
    From todays post from Riverbend-Baghdad Burning
    The big question is- what will the US do about Iran? There are the hints of the possibility of bombings, etc. While I hate the Iranian government, the people don't deserve the chaos and damage of air strikes and war. I don't really worry about that though, because if you live in Iraq- you know America's hands are tied. Just as soon as Washington makes a move against Tehran, American troops inside Iraq will come under attack. It's that simple- Washington has big guns and planes... But Iran has 150,000 American hostages.
    Read the rest, especially about the graduation for the Iraqi troops

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:58:07 PM EST
    April was an uptick - after a 5 month decline, I might add. And, as has been the case before, it occurred in conjunction with political wrangling. However, it didn't work - a government is forming.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#32)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 07:05:57 PM EST
    Another Turning Point in Iraq
    American street gangs, taking advantage of the lower recruitment standards made necessary by Bush's abuse of the military, are getting their members enlisted in order to capitalize on their military training and connections when they return to their neighborhoods. As the Chicago Sun-Times reports: The Gangster Disciples, Latin Kings and Vice Lords were born decades ago in Chicago's most violent neighborhoods. Now, their gang graffiti is showing up 6,400 miles away in one of the world's most dangerous neighborhoods - Iraq. Armored vehicles, concrete barricades and bathroom walls all have served as canvasses for their spray-painted gang art. At Camp Cedar II, about 185 miles southeast of Baghdad, a guard shack was recently defaced with "GDN" for Gangster Disciple Nation, along with the gang's six-pointed star and the word "Chitown," a soldier who photographed it said. ... Of paramount concern is whether gang-affiliated soldiers' training will make them deadly urban warriors when they return to civilian life and if some are using their access to military equipment to supply gangs at home, said Barfield and other experts. I tell you, this Iraq war idea has been a winner all around.
    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#33)
    by John Mann on Tue May 02, 2006 at 08:04:55 PM EST
    What I was pointing out was that large scale spasms of violence are possible - and have happened before - when a particular side has lost a conflict.
    Which is exactly why the U.S. launches another major offensive every now and again.
    That was my point. Sadly missed by everyone here.
    Oh, I didn't miss it, James. The U.S. is the "particular side" that has already lost this war. Mr. Bush, like Mr. Goebbels before him, understands the value of the Big Lie. The bigger the lie, the easier it is for people to swallow.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 08:42:17 PM EST
    However, it didn't work - a government is forming.
    JR. I am perhaps not the sharpest chisel in the box, and my opinion is, just that,my opinion. However, I do think it is influenced by reality, and when I read such as the above, there is only one reaction, and that is to groan. Tell me truly, in your heart of hearts, do you really think that this ramshackle collection of men, totaly inexperienced in government, so full of hatred for each other, hatred to such a degree, so reflected in the most inhumane acts of horror that they purpotrate on each other, can ever unite to govern the country called Iraq. Should your answer be yes, then all I can do is despair of you, and others of your ilk that inhabit such a place that is so devoid of realism.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#35)
    by Al on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:18:20 PM EST
    Hey, JR, you must know this. What did Bush mean when he said "Mission accomplished" three years ago?

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:27:47 PM EST
    edger-
    . Of paramount concern is whether gang-affiliated soldiers' training will make them deadly urban warriors when they return to civilian life
    Not to worry, now I feel safer, they will get jobs at homeland security. They don't do >background checks there over there.
    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:14:56 PM EST
    Shorter J.R: A wars a war, an insurgencys an insurgency, and all those niggly little details about geographical locale, terrain, regional history, alliances, and supply lines are all for ye of little faith who know not the annointed one.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:27:50 PM EST
    The US has defeated insurgencies before: Sure. At the Watergate Hotel, in Selma, Alabama, at Kent State University, in Vietnam, and all across the US.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#39)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:36:17 PM EST
    The US has defeated insurgencies before: It'll happen again. We just need to build a few Archie Bunker Buster Bombs, and aim for their hearts and minds.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:19:45 AM EST
    It is absurd to to divide people into good or bad. People are either charming or tedious.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#41)
    by Sailor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:40:32 AM EST
    strawman alert!:
    It was said that Iraq couldn't have elections, they have had two. Then they couldn't form a government, they have done so.
    who said it? provide links.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#42)
    by Al on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:06:49 AM EST
    OK, so finally I understand, from PPJ. Bush's triumphant speech on that ship when he said "Mission accomplished" was that the ship had not been sunk. By Saddam's powerful navy, presumably. And that no crew member of the ship had been killed in an accident on the way back. Heck, considering Bush's proficiency with bicyles and segways, it's a triumph that he managed to get on the ship without falling off. Give credit where credit is due. Similary, we should celebrate the countless bombing runs where the pilots managed to drop their bombs and return safely without crashing their planes or spontaneously combusting. We should also celebrate all the acts of torture carried out successfully without anyone contracting some horrible disease through contact with the prisoner's blood. And here all you skeptics were thinking that the mission had not been accomplished. Well, the scales have fallen from my eyes, I can tell you.

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:10:08 AM EST
    Al - thanks for shining some light on that... ;-)

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#44)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:22:25 AM EST
    Dear Mr. President, First, in case you haven't noticed, the war is not over. Sincerely, PPJ Thanks Jimbo. Couldn't have said it better myself!

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#45)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:33:04 AM EST
    Thirdly, I note that you like to play on "Mission Accomplished." This refers to a singular event. The rescue mission was sucessful. The bombing mission was accomplished. The mission referred was the successful and mostly safe voyage of the ship. Nice selective memory Slappy. Do you remember him saying "MAJOR COMBAT OPERATIONS IN IRAQ HAVE ENDED."? How are you going to twist that one? As Curly Howard would say: "I can hardly wait!"

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#46)
    by jondee on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:58:00 AM EST
    Thank God we've got a person here who always knows what Bush really meant whenever he jams his leg down his throat. Of course, if the ship had sunk Jim would've said mission accomplished refered to the successful landing onboard; and if the landing had been bad, mission accomplished would have been about Bush going potty by himself for the first time. Whenever PeeWee goes ass over tea cup on his bike, he can always count on his loyal field hand Jim to say "He meant to do that."

    Re: Mission Accomplished II (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed May 03, 2006 at 08:22:05 AM EST
    Comments are closing here due to the number of personal attacks on other commenters. It denigrates the discussion and makes for unpleasant, uninformative reading. Those of you who continue to do it will be banned and will have all of your past comments stricken from the site.

    Mission Accomplished II | 47 comments (47 topical)