home

MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's When Outed


Back in February, we wrote about Larisa Alexandrovna's article at Raw Story reporting that at the time Valerie Plame was outed in July, 2003 by Robert Novak, "she was part of an operation tracking distribution and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction technology to and from Iran." Larisa described the import:

The revelation that Iran was the focal point of Plame's work raises new questions as to possible other motivating factors in the White House's decision to reveal the identity of a CIA officer working on tracking a WMD supply network to Iran, particularly when the very topic of Iran's possible WMD capability is of such concern to the Administration.

Today on Hardball, MSNBC reporter David Schuster confirms that Plame was working on Iran. Crooks and Liars has the video.

"Intelligence sources say Valerie Wilson was part of an operation three years ago tracking the proliferation of nuclear weapons material into Iran. And the sources allege that when Mrs. Wilson's cover was blown, the administration's ability to track Iran's nuclear ambitions was damaged as well."

Check out Larissa's latest scoop today, Ahmed Chalabi has been rehired to consult on Iran.

Update: WAPO reporters Walter Pincus and Mike Allen wrote about Plame and Brewster Jennings in October, 2003, confirming it was a CIA front company used as Plame's employer when she was working undercover.

After the name of the company was broadcast yesterday, administration officials confirmed that it was a CIA front. They said the obscure and possibly defunct firm was listed as Plame's employer on her W-2 tax forms in 1999 when she was working undercover for the CIA. Plame's name was first published July 14 in a newspaper column by Robert D. Novak that quoted two senior administration officials. They were critical of her husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, for his handling of a CIA mission that undercut President Bush's claim that Iraq had sought uranium from the African nation of Niger for possible use in developing nuclear weapons.

The Justice Department began a formal criminal investigation of the leak Sept. 26.

The inadvertent disclosure of the name of a business affiliated with the CIA underscores the potential damage to the agency and its operatives caused by the leak of Plame's identity. Intelligence officials have said that once Plame's job as an undercover operative was revealed, other agency secrets could be unraveled and her sources might be compromised or endangered.

A compilation of Wall St. Journal and other articles on Plame and Brewster-Jennings and discussing what "NOC" (non-official cover) means is here. The October 8, 2003 WaPo article says:

Her activities during her years overseas remain classified, but she became the creme de la creme of spies: a "noc," an officer with "nonofficial cover." Nocs have cover jobs that have nothing to do with the U.S. government. They work in business, in social clubs, as scientists or secretaries (they are prohibited from posing as journalists), and if detected or arrested by a foreign government, they do not have diplomatic protection and rights. They are on their own. Even their fellow operatives don't know who they are, and only the strongest and smartest are picked for these assignments.

< "We Are America" Day in Photos | Duke Player's Lawyer Seeks Recusal of DA for Case Improprieties >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#1)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:45:11 PM EST
    Someone is trying to make a point. If she was covert, Fitzgerald would have said so. He didn't. And if losing one agent cripples a project, then the CIA is poorly managed and poorly run. So I don't believe that claim, either. This is an obvious attempt to stir the pot. They need a better spoon.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#2)
    by squeaky on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:50:37 PM EST
    That was the rumor. Also, one theory as to why she was outed was to destroy the CIA conduit for pesky facts about Iran's nuclear program. (that they were at least 10 years away) With Brewster-Jennings out of the way the WH could write their own fictive narrative. Things like "Iran could have the bomb in 16 days" now can go unchallenged.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#3)
    by Punchy on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:18:37 PM EST
    Shorter Jim: (fingers in both ears) lalalallalalalalalallalalalaaCANT HEAR YOUllalalalalalalNOT LISTENING lalallalallalIT'S CLINTON'S FAULTlalal

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#4)
    by Sailor on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:28:06 PM EST
    If she was covert, Fitzgerald would have said so. He didn't.
    ppj, you are a proven liar, and you are lying most egregiously about this.
    special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity
    Sorry TL if I offended you, but I didn't break your guidlines, I just spoke the truth.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#5)
    by jondee on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:57:27 PM EST
    Five'll get you ten he went to the wall for Nixon, Mitchell, Liddy, North, Secor and Casey and probobly whoever got Cheney, Goodman, and Schwerner too. Hey, Jims just a frustrated Criminal Defense Attorney.

    We've known this for sometime, but.. Let's watch and see how much the right wing media attempts to cover this up or side step it ...

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#7)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:09:37 PM EST
    To Jim and the rest of the 33%, it is more important to protect the Bush adminstration than to protect the security of the United States. And if losing one agent cripples a project, then the CIA is poorly managed and poorly run. You don't know what you are talking about. I have no idea whether outing one agent can cripple a particular operation. Neither do you.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:34:31 PM EST
    Sailor, We've already have it from reliable sources that she didn't do covert work, since "If she was covert, Fitzgerald would have said so"...
    Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas"
    Ummm... I've got it... she obviously must have been uncovertly doing this covert work overseas, right? How am I doin' so far? Do I qualify to become a republican or a social liberal now? Anyone have an extra brown shirt they're not using? ;-)

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#9)
    by rMatey on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:35:38 PM EST
    So, if the Presidunce leaked the identity of an American undercover agent, that would be treason. Time to get to ImCHIMpeachment.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:37:28 PM EST
    Sailor - Liar yourself. Doing covert work does not meet the definition of being covert. Quit parsing. Try this straightforward comment.
    "We have not made any allegation that Mr. Libby knowingly and intentionally outed a covert agent," Mr. Fitzgerald contentedly confirmed.
    And from another source:
    In fact, the myth that the Intelligence Identities Protection Act was violated in the Plame case began to unravel in October 2003, when New York Times scribe Nicholas Kristof revealed that she abandoned her covert role a full nine years before the Novak column. "The C.I.A. suspected that Aldrich Ames had given [Plame's] name [along with those of other spies] to the Russians before his espionage arrest in 1994," reported Kristof. "So her undercover security was undermined at that time, and she was brought back to Washington for safety reasons."
    Jondee - Do you have anything to say about the subject? No, just your usual bunch of insults. Tell me. Doesn't demonstrating your complete lack of knowledge get boring? Punchy - Try reading and learning... for a change. charlie - Well, I provided a quote and a link. Got any proof with your claim?

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:38:03 PM EST
    Better warm up the Acme All Purpose Signing Statement Machine again. I think I just fell through the mirror.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:38:57 PM EST
    rMatey - The President gets to say what is, or is not, classified. Kinda one of those "being President" things.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#13)
    by Edger on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:41:19 PM EST
    'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

    I interviewed Larisa recently and she described how Plame's team was only one part of Brewster Jennings - i.e. BJ was a front for not only Plames team, but for other teams as well.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:46:41 PM EST
    Che - You may never have ran a important/major project so your assumpation about yourself may be 100% true. But I know that if you are runnung an important/major project you staff in duplicate and assume that you will lose people as the project continues. That's how it's done.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:51:18 PM EST
    Jondee: just a frustrated Criminal Defense Attorney... ...but he was "loyal to a fault". Ahem.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:21:40 PM EST
    Charlie, Maybe the process could be helped if we all make a donation? ;-)

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#18)
    by orionATL on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:32:45 PM EST
    i have long thought that plame, not wilson, was the target of the white house and ,especially, of the v.p.'s office. but i'm not sure now how to interpret my opinion, in light of the move against iran. was it: 1) a "disciplining" of the cia for interfering tin the iraq invasion propaganda or given current events 2) an effort to shut down cia knowledge about iran nuclear, pre-bombing/invasion. could these dopes think that far ahead?

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:38:19 PM EST
    ppj- written words, evidentially are not to be trusted so, here is the video. The gig is up... time to move on....perhaps you can focus on nuking Iran. C & L BTW- Fitzgerald is not going to make a specially tailored digest for you. With all due respect you are way off his radar.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#20)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:53:46 PM EST
    But I know that if you are runnung an important/major project you staff in duplicate and assume that you will lose people as the project continues. That's how it's done. You were in Intelligence? You have knowledge of the structuring of CIA operations units? Are they all set up the same? You're just Bul88hitting now, Mr. Wizard.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:18:43 PM EST
    Abandon hope all ye who enter here:
    ...Both the indicted and un-indicted co-conspirators in the Valerie Plame case have formed a Sumo team to help pay for their mounting legal fees. The "Codpiece Cronies" will wrestle the "Corporate Shills", a team of mental dwarfs from the American Enterprise Institute, Friday night.


    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:23:48 PM EST
    orionATL -
    1) a "disciplining" of the cia for interfering tin the iraq invasion propaganda 2) an effort to shut down cia knowledge about iran nuclear, pre-bombing/invasion.
    It is all same as long as they can get away with being able to blame the faulty intelligence. The Iraq intelligence was totally wiped out...... so they can honestly say:
    To the best of our knowledge, based on our best Intelligence, bla, bla, bla.....zzzzzzz.......
    Besides, liberating iraq was only a stepping stone to free the Iranian people and the Free World of a radical religious brutal dictatorship. Funny how the christians use the jews on this issue. Best friends, that is until he comes back. After that only 300 jews are allowed into the kingdom of heaven. The rest have to convert or burn in h*ll for eternity.
    could these dopes think that far ahead?
    They have been planning this for 25 years.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:03:42 PM EST
    charlie - Well, let's see a link. Until then, I'll just consider the matter settled. That's how it's done. Squeaky - Written words are fine by me. If you don't have'em, you don't have'em. Che - Nope, but project management is project management, and I have done my share of those. As I said, evidently you haven't or you wouldn't be buying into this BS being passed around.... But wait! You want to believe. Well, like the con artist said, you can't cheat an honest man. Sqeaky writes:
    They have been planning this for 25 years
    Earth to Squeaky! Earth to Squeaky! Come in Squeaky!

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:14:50 PM EST
    That just may be his only hope. What maybe! It is his only hope. No... there's no hope. There never was...

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:23:30 PM EST
    Face it Jim like a good little former sharecropper turned house "n" for massa ('n all them rich folk), you're perfectly willing to help them throw any number of lowly foot soldiers - actual, or C.I.A type - under the bus if it'll make massa happy. Jes keep lyin 'n shuckin 'n jivin. Hope they're throwin you some good kitchen scraps.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:27:47 PM EST
    Are you gonna say "I never defended Rove" in a few months? After the mourning period I mean.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#27)
    by Edger on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:32:34 PM EST
    What, Me Worry?:
    "I never defended Rove"


    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:41:12 PM EST
    Jondee - Glad to see you are playing the race card again. As to poverty, I see that you can add that to the list of things you know nothing about. And a long list it is, too.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:46:25 PM EST
    ppj - As much and probobly more than you. And my soloution to it was solidarity not sucking up to the ones that lap up the poor with a spoon.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#30)
    by jondee on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:49:36 PM EST
    Btw, If I were a poet I might be able to convey how much your words mean to me, but since Im not I'll just go take a wiff of the cat box.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#31)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon May 01, 2006 at 09:32:33 PM EST
    As I said, evidently you haven't or you wouldn't be buying into this BS being passed around.... Yeah the internet is FOS. Glad I checked with you first.

    Double super secret girl called Plame, Nobody ever heard her name. Words from Rover, Career over. Nuclear intel down the drain.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 12:54:51 AM EST
    The gig is up... time to move on....perhaps you can focus on nuking Iran.
    Submitted for your approval: A woefully inadequate little man thrust upon the stage just before the final curtain in the third act of a bad tragedy.


    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#34)
    by ding7777 on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:51:43 AM EST
    Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson's employment status was classified.


    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#35)
    by john horse on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:14:13 AM EST
    PPJ re: "Doing covert work does not meet the definition of being covert." You take the prize PPJ. OK so you are saying that you can be covert without dong any covert work. Can you provide an example of this? Isn't every person who is covert engaged in covert work? I can't think of any exceptions. Since you believe otherwise, please enlighten us. Its our actions that define us and that includes some of comments you post. As Forest Gump once said out "stupid is as stupid does".

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:04:31 AM EST
    charlie - I provided a quote with a link to the source. You have made a claim that, if true, should be, according to you, easy to prove. You haven't done so. So therefor I regard your claim as being not true. That is the way things work in this world charlie. You make a claim, you prove it. Should be easy, according to you. Right there in the transcripts, eh? So show us, charlie. BTW - I am still waiting with a $50.00 contribution to TL, and an apology to Gays everywhere if you can show proof that I have ever attacked Gay Marriage. You didn't do that, either. Blowhard. John Horse - Mrs. Wilson was either covert, or she was not. I have provided sources that say she was not. All I have seen from the Left is claims, plus statements like "she was doing covert work..." I repeat. That means nothing. ding - Exactly. And "classified" is not "covert." And if you take it a bit further, you will find that it was what she was doing that was classified. not the fact that she was employed by the CIA. And that, boys and girls is why, when Rovert Novak called the CIA, they didn't deny she worked there. That is why, girls and boys, Fitzgerald has nailed someone for outing a covert agent. There are thousands of people who work for various government agencies. It is what they do that is classified, not the fact that they work for Agency X.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:04:32 AM EST
    charlie - I provided a quote with a link to the source. You have made a claim that, if true, should be, according to you, easy to prove. You haven't done so. So therefor I regard your claim as being not true. That is the way things work in this world charlie. You make a claim, you prove it. Should be easy, according to you. Right there in the transcripts, eh? So show us, charlie. BTW - I am still waiting with a $50.00 contribution to TL, and an apology to Gays everywhere if you can show proof that I have ever attacked Gay Marriage. You didn't do that, either. Blowhard. John Horse - Mrs. Wilson was either covert, or she was not. I have provided sources that say she was not. All I have seen from the Left is claims, plus statements like "she was doing covert work..." I repeat. That means nothing. ding - Exactly. And "classified" is not "covert." And if you take it a bit further, you will find that it was what she was doing that was classified. not the fact that she was employed by the CIA. And that, boys and girls is why, when Rovert Novak called the CIA, they didn't deny she worked there. That is why, girls and boys, Fitzgerald has nailed someone for outing a covert agent. There are thousands of people who work for various government agencies. It is what they do that is classified, not the fact that they work for Agency X.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:07:28 AM EST
    HoooooHo.... I'm lol at me.... make that "has nailed someone" ...."has not nailed someone..."

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#39)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:32:09 AM EST
    Yep, there's no hope at all. There never was...

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#40)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:40:38 AM EST
    It depends on what your definition of IS...I mean Covert...is, eh Jimbo? I think I'll let the investigators decide whether Plame was covert or not. Somehow Jim, your reassurances are not cutting it.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#41)
    by Sailor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 08:49:54 AM EST
    ppj said: I provided a quote with a link to the source.
    No you didn't. You might try for a bit more truthiness in the future.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:01:54 PM EST
    Oh my goodness, I must have caught charlie's disease. No, I didn't. I left a link, it just didn't work. Sigh. Sailor, you are such a sweethheart. Bless you for noting the problem. Please be so kind as to try this one. See charlie? You can even fix one that doesn't work. And GASP! charlie doesn't love me? Surprise. Surprise! The issue isn't love charlie, the issue is you rant, rave and make claims, but can never walk the walk. Really charlie, do you think you will ever make it out of Single A?? In the meantime you have an opportunity to actually prove something. Show us the link, charlie. Show us the link. But we kbow why you can't. Ding nailed it in his comment. Sorry charlie. How about some baseball trivia??

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#43)
    by Peaches on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:15:07 PM EST
    Jim, What is this argument about? Charlie is right, you are wrong. It is not that hard to find. Just google it. In his Fitzgeralds own words from the Transcript:
    Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community. Valerie Wilson's friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life. The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well- known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us. It's important that a CIA officer's identity be protected, that it be protected not just for the officer, but for the nation's security. Valerie Wilson's cover was blown in July 2003.


    How does this work? She spends years working at a desk in HQ. Somebody says she works for the CIA. The Iranians immediately know it was her--as opposed to somebody else--checking out their nuke program. Or do we presume that, until VP was outed, the Iranians didn't know anybody was checking out their nuke program? What about Plame said "Iranian nuke program" to the Iranians? What had she done to be identified with looking into their progress? Until the Iranians heard her name, they weren't taking precautions? Or, now that they've heard that she works at CIA, they know more accurately which precautions to take? Why? What was her connection to the Iranian nuke program? Was Brewster-Jennings doing some consulting work for the Iranians on nukes or something related and her name was on the letterhead? Major missing link(s) here.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#45)
    by Sailor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:00:38 PM EST
    Major missing link(s) here.
    I agree, many missing links comment on this site. But snark aside, did you consider the links are missing because it's classified!? At least that part of the network that bush didn't destroy for political purposes.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#46)
    by Sailor on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:02:49 PM EST
    jeebus jim, you linked to rw opinion to support your rw opinion. Try a little truthiness* * Apologies to Otis Redding.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 02, 2006 at 08:16:57 PM EST
    Sailor - That was a direct quote, not "opinion." Bit of a difference, you know. Of course, being a vetted memeber of the Left, you probably don't. Peaches - Nonsense. The issue was "covert" not "classified." Two entirely different concepts, subjects, qualifications, status, etc., etc. as Fitzgerald was saying in the quotation I gave of him. Also see Bing's comment. I am still uncertain as to whether or not it was her employment, or her work that was classified. It is my understanding that it was her work, but I can't prove it, so I have acknowledged the conflict. (I trust you understand the differences between covert and classified, and the difference between employment and work within.) BTW - My point with charlie is that he is often wrong, and never provides a link. In the world I live in, if you claim something, you are expected to prove it.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#48)
    by Nowonmai on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:19:51 PM EST
    Jim, What is this argument about? Charlie is right, you are wrong. It is not that hard to find. Just google it. In his Fitzgeralds own words from the Transcript:
    Peaches, hard cold facts will do nothing to dissuade the 33% of blind followers of Bush. I don't know what has to happen before they clue upb to just how corrupt this admin is? Maybe shoot someone in the face? Oh wait..

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:20:06 PM EST
    Yeah Jim, that was a hell of a link. Wolfowitz's boy-toy telling us that if Libby, Rove etc are convicted under the law then its a bad law. And that is supposed to improve your credibility here how? Is this one of the early stages of dementia? You one of the ones that helped the Gipper liberate the Death Camps?

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:29:47 PM EST
    Hitchens seems to be in bad shape these days. I think he has totally lost it.

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#51)
    by Edger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:59:55 PM EST
    There will aways be a core, however small, who will remain intractable professing support of bush in spite of the extreme inner psychic conflicts they must be living with. They'll be angry most of the time, probably suffer boils, back problems, bad digestion and ulcers, erectile disfunction and the whole range of neuroses and stress related diseases. Their pets will run away. Their wives and husbands will leave them, and their children will hate them for the things they love. All because they are unable to admit that bush has been lying to them since the beginning, that they were suckered from the start. Because they think they are too smart to be taken, they have been royally fleeced. They know it in their bones. I feel sorry for them. Once in a while. For a minute or so. Just long enough to wonder why I bother...

    Re: MSNBC: Valerie Plame Was Working on Iran WMD's (none / 0) (#52)
    by jondee on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:04:17 PM EST
    What true believers in the new empire like ppj and Straussian convert Hitchens are so desperatly afraid of is that the closer the scandals come to Bush, and the more he loses credibility in the eyes of the public, the less public support there will be for the PNAC grand scheme jackoff in the M.E. Unfortunately for them, its already happening. Tough sh*t.

    Please stop the name-calling and childish insults and just discuss the issues. Particularly Charlie and Jim.