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TalkLeft Blocked by Library

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 04:34:53 AM EST
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TalkLeft is being blocked at at least one public library, the Camarillo library at 3100 Ponderosa, Camarillo,CA. Here is the message that users receive (pdf). Having been through this before in 2003 when software censors used by law firms blocked TalkLeft at law firms nationally, I know how difficult it will be to get this straightened out. It took me days to track down the software censor company and get them to reinstate TalkLeft. Another time, PayPal froze TalkLeft's account for similar reasons, and it was days before I got the account reinstated.

This is the reason I insist commenters refrain from name-calling and not use profanity, name-calling and crass words in comments. It's the comments, not our posts, that result in the site being blocked. So please, be considerate in your comments. Feel free to disagree with what another commenter writes, but do so civilly without the use of profanity and explicit language. If you can't abide by these restrictions, there are plenty of other sites to comment on.

If I read every comment on TalkLeft, I'd have no time left to blog. Readers need to monitor the comments themselves, and let me know by e-mail if someone has crossed the line. The commenter community on TalkLeft is not huge, as compared to other liberal blogs, but it is a community. Help me protect it by restraining yourselves.

And if you are a tech-savvy person who knows how we can avoid this problem in the future, please let me know.

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    TalkLeft Blocked by Library | 97 comments (97 topical)
    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 01:14:38 AM EST
    Jeez Louise!

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#2)
    by Aaron on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 01:32:09 AM EST
    It doesn't say anything about language or profanity in the message, it says illegal activities. Now I realize that all lawyers are unethical scum :) , but have you guys been doing things that we don't know about?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 02:08:03 AM EST
    Shall we all mail a copy of the first ammendment to the library, censors, and local paper ? Absurd !! software censor company ?? My oh my. I hear Osama laughing everyday.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 03:10:32 AM EST
    Your site is read by a Limey, Of injustice, corruption, 'n things slimey. Of those that would block, Your efforts that rock. What can I say, but "Cor Blimey"

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#5)
    by john horse on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 03:37:41 AM EST
    Thanks for the chuckle Mr. Wild. Regarding the topic, since when does giving one's opinion constitute "illegal activities" in a democratic society?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#6)
    by Aaron on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 04:21:34 AM EST
    ATTENTION TALKLEFT STAFF AND SUPPORT! Please add a link to your comment policy in this story. So that I and others can quickly be remind of exactly how far is too far. Thank you for taking the time to read this and may I just take this opportunity to kiss up to you and show off my fawning sycophantic side. Surely all the faithful will worship at the altar of the talkleft. Seriously this is an extremely professionally run site and I must compliment you on creating something of value on the Internet. And when I say value I mean more than the monetary kind. The kind that makes you thankful, thankful because you realize that there are still sane and rational people out there trying to make people's lives and the world we exist in better for everyone. That is to be applauded and appreciated not just for the time and effort you put in, but for the courage it takes. Simply put you're great. Just keep going the way you're going and I have no doubt others will try to ban you, and that's how you'll know you're really starting to make a difference. In fact when it comes to these issues, If somebody isn't banning you that's when you know you're doing something wrong. Did I say you were great, well just let me reiterate. Talkleft is fine, Talkleft is great, whenever I want to contemplate. Did I say fine did I say great, will just let me reiterate. Talkleft is fine talkleft is great and they never never obfuscate. Did I say fine did I say great, well just let me reiterate. Sh*t I've run out of rhymes. Yeah yeah I know you're all thankful. Anyway, you get the picture, so do I get my free subscription now, because I can't keep paying these exorbitant prices for this magazine. I think all this success has gone to your heads really. I'm serious I want at least 20% off, Heck (substituted for hell just in case) I think we should all get 20% off. No you won't cut me any slack? Well I guess I don't have any reason to kiss up anymore so.... Get a grip you s--k. Sh*t can I say suck?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#7)
    by jen on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 04:41:59 AM EST
    "Illegal activities"? I can't wait to hear this one.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 05:21:03 AM EST
    And if you are a tech-savvy person who knows how we can avoid this problem in the future, please let me know. A CGI script could be written and hooked to the Post Button to scan the comment and compare to a modifiable blacklist of keywords and replace them with ***** or something. Mike Ditto may be able to do this, or can find some one who is able.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 05:31:44 AM EST
    Developing Movable Type Plug-ins by Timothy Appnel:
    the MT plugin framework, its complete API, and the basics of hooking into the core systems operation and its data persistence service. It's assumed that you're somewhat knowledgeable with Perl


    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#10)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 05:33:51 AM EST
    Or all us commenters could just be a bit considerate...

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#11)
    by roger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 05:41:28 AM EST
    Interesting, could TL be censored for opposition to the death penalty? Coverage of criminal trials, or pro-legalization of drugs? I am not so sure that that message concerns cuss words.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 05:48:52 AM EST
    I believe free speech carries a responsibility to self censor according to acceptable guidelines when they apply. It's more a matter of civility and mutual respect rather than a rule of law so the 'illegal activity' is troubling. I consider myself a guest in each community forum and I try to be a good one. What exactly is the offense that triggered the warning? Is it assumed illegal, determined illegal or a simpler policy violation of some sort?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 06:14:50 AM EST
    "illegal activities" is just a meesage that is generated by the WebBalanced Technologies PlugIn that the library is running on their network, that their SysAdmin uses through it's Management Console to filter and/or block internet access by the library computer users. The message has no inherent "legal" connotations. The SysAdmin, or anyone in the library with run permissions on the Management Console can block or allow access to TalkLeft or any other site by setting policies using the console, and the message generated (in this case "illegal activities") depends on the type of block that is set. If you call the SysAdmin at the library he or she can tell you exactly what their concern is and their reasons for blocking access to TalkLeft.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 06:20:08 AM EST
    Good Morning All, While I do not always agree with the POV taken here, I do think that the action by the library and the censor organization is completely without merit. Good Luck getting it cleaned up.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 06:21:52 AM EST
    edger, I sincerely hope that the site is not being blocked because of the POV. That would be wrong....even if your POV's are wrong ;)

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 06:32:17 AM EST
    WebBalance Office (TM) is just simple content filtering software, similar to what a parent might use to manage internet access for their children at home. It lets the admin block or allow access to any sites or IP's. e.g. porn sites, etc. Yes, it could be used to block sites whose POV an administrator disagrees with (flagrant censorship), but that may create legal liabilities for the library. WebBalanced Office allows you to control where your employees may go on the Internet. > Easy to install and manage > One centralized management console > Fully customizable > Easy to read user activity reports > No expensive hardware to buy > Restrict IM and personal email > Runs on your Windows computers > Great for libraries, churches, and schools Would you like to learn more?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#18)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 06:36:25 AM EST
    even if your POV's are wrong ;) Mine, and TalkLefts, work for me. ;-)

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 06:45:26 AM EST
    It's the comments, not our posts, that result in the site being blocked. Without causing more problems, what was the specific violation? Was the warning triggered by a page request made to here from a library patron? Was the warning triggered by monitoring of this site by a third party? Was Talkleft blocked as a pre-emptive action or as a result of someone trying to access the site?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 06:48:06 AM EST
    rumi, access to TalkLeft or at least to that particular page here, was explicitly blocked by someone in the library using the WebBalance console.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 06:50:12 AM EST
    It is also possible I suppose that library policy is to block access to political blogs generally. Libraries generally have public acces computers and they may not want their patrons blogging as it tends to eat up computer time while other people stand in line waiting to use a computer.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 06:56:30 AM EST
    explicitly blocked Correction: probably explicitly blocked. Blocking with WebBalance can also be acomplished by establishing a keyword list that is compared to the pages being opened

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:02:04 AM EST
    It bothers me that PUBLIC libraries censor anything. That being said, I can understand hardcore porn, but politics? Kind of scary.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#24)
    by Lora on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:05:34 AM EST
    TL, Following your link, I found the post with comments on Colin Powell to be the offending one. I'm asking, was the entire site banned, or just certain posts like that one? From reading the majority of all the comments I would say they seemed fairly typical and reasonably restrained when compared to some. So could it have been the topic and all those ref's to terrorists and such? Or was that just one example of censoring of the entire site? And...I expect I'd have a different POV if it was my site being censored...but, yeah, I agree that if someone's not banning you, you're probably not doing your job. I think that I shall never write A nasty comment on TalkLeft's site. For until the Internets fall Our views will crack the zealots' wall.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#25)
    by Peter G on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:12:24 AM EST
    The American Library Association and most librarians are great champions of freedom of speech. The latest ACLU victory over PATRIOT Act censorshop, just yesterday, came as the result of courageous action by a librarian standing up to a "National Security Letter" from the FBI. I wouldn't assume anything malicious, as opposed to a careless setting in a filtering program, until receiving some evidence otherwise.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:18:39 AM EST
    At the bottom of the redirect in the linked pdf it said 'May be disrptive to library environment. Might be the reason but that would apply to many comments. Is this anywhere near Lodi?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#27)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:18:58 AM EST
    I wonder. Does one of our local winger trolls work at this library? ;-)

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:31:20 AM EST
    Matt O. from The Great Society guest posting at FDL addresses this very same issue. Oddly enough the issue arose at the racist wingnut site LGF.
    Some time in 2005, LGF employed a word filter that altered certain words of readers' comments as soon as they submitted their post. The last "raghead" comment was in January 2005 just prior to a post where Charles received an e-mail from a British Muslim that was offended with the racist cesspool. ....The word "raghead" is automatically changed to "Arab" by the filter. In fact, on several occasions, readers complained about their inability to use the word "raghead," test out other slurs, have fun with it and give each other pointers on how to get around the filter.[emphasis mine]
    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:33:58 AM EST
    To make a limerick alive, Lora, I see you do strive. But well to remember, If you are the sender. You must rhyme, lines one two and five. Pray forgive me if a limerick was not your intention.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:53:24 AM EST
    The Ventura County Library Camarillo Library 3100 Ponderosa Drive, Camarillo, CA Services:
    * Want to know how to get a library card and borrow a book? Find out here. * Follow this link to learn how to access the library catalog from home. * Library staff will answer your research questions. * If a book you want is not available at your local library, it can be be ordered from other libraries. * Telephone questions will be answered during open hours. Call (805) 482-1953. * Fifteen computers are available for public Internet use. Computers are filtered for use by customers under 18.
    I suspect the blocking is probably based on keyword filtering of words, though it is curious if complete site access to TalkLeft is being blocked.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:03:52 AM EST
    Camarillo Library: (805) 482-1952 Sandi Banks, City Librarian Mary Goldberg, Children's Librarian

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#32)
    by Lora on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:07:43 AM EST
    Oscar, Limmericks are gimmericks, And Nash's are smashes. (I love your limericks; you just inspired me in a different direction. (With humble apologies to Ogden Nash, both times ;-) )

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:22:29 AM EST
    The reader who e-mailed me the blocked message said that the home page comes up but every time he hits the "more" button on an extended entry, that message comes up. It's blocked on all posts. I think that means the permalinks and comments as well.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:33:57 AM EST
    Comments offensive to me Censored by one you can't see avoiding to scold her this discerning beholder shuts eyes blocking obscenity.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:34:21 AM EST
    I wonder if this problem might be avoided in the future by offloading the comments feature to Haloscan. That way the comments would have a separate haloscan.com URL and this site might not be penalized.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:34:58 AM EST
    Much talk of truth has been said, And fishes that rot from the head. But makes me do wonder, The words of boy blunder. Could he lie straight in his bed. I once did have a wife. Now no more trouble and strife. How sad that I now sit, And scribble political wit. Really I must get a life.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#38)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:44:02 AM EST
    There have been various rather explicit comments re acts against the President and Vice President. Could these be illegal? As soon as they finish dismantling the Constitution, that is certainly the goal. Pretty soon we'll ALL be free to say nothing but nice thing about the president. Do you recall a GOP politician suggesting that Bill Clinton would not be safe if he visited a certain state?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#39)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:50:12 AM EST
    Powell is the obscenity. So now cussing is illegal? Yes, only in Amerika.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:50:21 AM EST
    I wonder if a left and a right had an argument in the library?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:03:15 AM EST
    Testing the filters forsh it well hidden in unlikely wit glib itching to sneeze a waif 'ucked' up keys The bass sturdy keyboarder quit - -> >/test<

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:25:56 AM EST
    No Problemo. Bending is better than breaking. I concur to be civilized is better than being barbaric.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:31:26 AM EST
    Jeralyn: The reader who e-mailed me the blocked message said that the home page comes up but every time he hits the "more" button on an extended entry, that message comes up. The More button and the permalinks and the comments are all under the URL talkleft/new_archives/ The home page is not. They have talkleft/new_archives/ blocked by WebBalance. I would call Sandi Banks, City Librarian @ (805) 482-1952 and talk with her about it. It may be unintentional.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#44)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:36:27 AM EST
    Then again she may want library users to be able to read your articles, but not be able to post comments?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#45)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:46:07 AM EST
    Sandi Banks?!

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:48:16 AM EST
    ohhhh,.....I had trouble not jumping on the 'sandi banks' possibilities.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#47)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:48:29 AM EST
    You'd think a librarian would be better named, say, Paige Turner. I kill me.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#48)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:57:49 AM EST
    ooooh.... saaaaarrrrrrcccc..... get a new writer huh? ;-)

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:58:24 AM EST
    Eileen N. Stackem Anita B Reeding Wanda C Warrant

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 10:00:09 AM EST
    ppj - Youre refering to the suggestion (which I vigorishly second) that certain dyslexic, coke addled boy-kings be introduced to that solemn dame once euphemistically refered to as the Merry Widow?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#51)
    by Al on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 10:00:46 AM EST
    PPJ:
    Hmmmm, just wondering. There have been various rather explicit comments re acts against the President and Vice President. Could these be illegal?
    What, you mean like Cheney telling Senator Leahy to go impregnate himself?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#52)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 10:01:07 AM EST
    Harlequin Romances by Mike Hunt? (delete this comment if you want, Jeralyn!)

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#53)
    by Patrick on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 10:06:36 AM EST
    There once was a man from Nantucket.... What? Oh, this isn't the limerick thread? Nevermind! This must be a winger conspiracy. One of our best. I'm in California but a long way away from Ventura County.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 10:11:54 AM EST
    The newest winger bumpersticker: Bending Over(backwards)for Grover.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 10:46:02 AM EST
      There once was a gal from Nantucket   Who, spotting a trend, would just buck it.   Though not giving offense, her   Words trip the 'bot censor...   And now she must learn how to duck it.   - SB the YDD The notion that a librarian would censor political material is chilling and, I think, unlikely. I've known many librarians; most of them are proactively on the side of free speech... and they're accustomed to dealing with parents who are shocked... shocked! ... by what they find in classic works of literature. Let's assume an innocent mistake, or a winger staffer, before assuming an intent to censor on the part of the librarian.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:06:19 AM EST
    Let's assume an innocent mistake, or a winger staffer, before assuming an intent to censor on the part of the librarian. One could not ask for a better example of the double standard applied here and elsewhere. The librarian is, of course, innocent until proven otherwise, which is exactly as it should be. The possible options then offered? An "honest mistake" or " a winger staffer", implying that "a winger staffer" would have done this on purpose but anyone else, such as "a wanger staffer" would only have done so by mistake. How about we just wait and see what the library has to say about why it did this before we jump to conclusions and delusions about it all being a "rethug" scheme? Yeah, I know, that would leave many here with nothing to say, but it has the merit of being reasonable and prudent.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:15:22 AM EST
    I just talked to the library. They are going to have their tech person check into it. The site is not blocked on the unfiltered computers, only the filtered computers for use by those under 18. They said the blocking kicks in from the censor software, there's nothing they can do to manually change it. That's my understanding from the last time I had this problem....hopefully the tech person can take care of this with the company so I don't have to track them down. Knowing the name of the company is the easy part. The hard part is finding the person in charge of these issues for the company and his or her fax number.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:20:24 AM EST
    I just talked to the library. Cool. At least you're making some progress on it! What a pain though, huh? Good luck, Jeralyn.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:21:04 AM EST
    Just what would be a "reasonable and prudent" non-wing-nut whack-job reason explanation for blocking TalkLeft, JP? I eagerly await my learned colleague's reply.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#60)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:23:20 AM EST
    How about we just wait and see what the library has to say about why it did this before we jump to conclusions and delusions about it all being a "rethug" scheme? Good thinking, JP... since you're the only person here who has even remotely suggested a "rethug" scheme, it's good to see you slamming that paranoid delusion.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:33:17 AM EST
    Posted by JimakaPPJ April 13, 2006 06:57 AM
    Hmmmm, just wondering. There have been various rather explicit comments re acts against the President and Vice President. Could these be illegal?
    Why, did someone call them a couple of ma cheneys? Did they tell them to go cheney themselves and the horses they road in on, Jim? Well, if not, on behalf of my Senator, Patrick Leahy, allow me to be the first. This is still America, Jim. You guys haven't turned it into Amerika yet.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:35:54 AM EST
    charlie writes:
    Just what would be a "reasonable and prudent" non-wing-nut whack-job reason explanation for blocking TalkLeft, JP? I eagerly await my learned colleague's reply.
    Language, charlie. Some people object to their children being exposed to gutter, locker room language. For example, who made the "Exxon whor*s" comment in Tuesday's Open Thread? (Hint: Look in the mirror.) Al, no. And you are as aware of them as anyone else. So, there is no need for you to play dumb. Repack - You also know that I am not referring to saying nasty things about them, but talking about acts against them. Please join Al in the dunce corner. Dark Avenger - As a guest it would not be proper for me to take any action without being requested to do so by TL. I am surprised you are not aware of this concept. Et al - Want a sample? Okay? Aaron 4-10 04:51PM There are many others.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#63)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:37:44 AM EST
    Posted by edger April 13, 2006 08:18 AM I wonder. Does one of our local winger trolls work at this library? ;-) Posted by Repack Rider April 13, 2006 09:44 AM As soon as they finish dismantling the Constitution, that is certainly the goal. Posted by Patrick April 13, 2006 11:06 AM This must be a winger conspiracy. One of our best. I'm in California but a long way away from Ventura County. Posted by Jondee April 13, 2006 11:11 AM The newest winger bumpersticker: Bending Over(backwards)for Grover Splitting hairs, edger? Who are the "they" Repack is referring to? Do you recognize "winger trolls" who are not also "rethugs"? Does Jondee?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#64)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:46:01 AM EST
    j.p - I think you should tell mommy.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#65)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:47:23 AM EST
    And dont worry, we'll all jump to your defense.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#66)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:50:24 AM EST
    ppj - Go ahead and blow little kids to bits; just dont swear while youre doing it. And dont use profanity when youre lying either.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#67)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:50:55 AM EST
    Posted by Jondee April 13, 2006 12:46 PM j.p - I think you should tell mommy. Was that supposed to be another of your "strong" opinions, JD?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#68)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 11:54:48 AM EST
    Jondee, Good idea... JP needs the help I suppose, particularly with understanding the tongue in cheek concept the commenters he quoted used. We can only do our best for him - and hope it's enough. ;-P

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#69)
    by swingvote on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 12:05:04 PM EST
    Jondee, Good idea... JP needs the help I suppose, particularly with understanding the tongue in cheek concept the commenters he quoted used. We can only do our best for him - and hope it's enough. If that were only true, edger, but you know very well that it isn't. This site is a nest of paranoid delusionals always ready to claim that "they" are violating "our" rights, etc.... until it's a Democrat doing it, in which case it's all very understandable and necessary. Witness the general lack of complaint when it was Democrats using "free speech zones" at their conventions, then the recent claim here that this phrase didn't enter the lexicon until the Republicans started doing it. This site is filled with comments from people who blame every problem on "rethugs" "reptiles", and "repugnicans", to cite just three of the favorite derogatories other than the ever-present "winger" and "wingnuts". Very few, if any of them, are made in jest. *** It's been fun guys, but I have to go now, as I have places I have to be and this is quickly becoming yet another Jondee-sponsored two minute hate. Good luck with the library Jeralyn.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#70)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 12:08:31 PM EST
    And ppj, the w*rd w****s *s in the original Mother Goo*e and Shake*peare grow up. Or is it just that Ch*rley tends get under your sk*n and ole blood 'n guts wants somethin done about it?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#71)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 12:10:04 PM EST
    I tend to think it is.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#72)
    by Al on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 12:19:57 PM EST
    PPJ, why is Cheney in your opinion exempt from civilized behavior to others, not to mention shooting them in the face? And moreover, what on Earth are you talking about? Show me where anyone on TL has advocated illegal acts against Bush or Cheney or anyone else in the administration.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#73)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 12:26:11 PM EST
    My I suggest "Exxon trollops","Exxon slatterns", or perhaps "the fallen flowers and soiled doves of Exxon."?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#74)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 01:02:26 PM EST
    My my, our factually-challenged, mama cheneyin' friends on the right sure can dish it out but they have a hard time takin' it. Why, if I had a dollar for every time I got dissed and had my ancestry, species, citizenship and patriotism attacked by one of these recliner rambos, I'd drive a Porsche to my Ferrari.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#75)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 01:08:36 PM EST
    I think they're hoping against hope that madame librarian is some kind of Phyllis Schlafly school marm wif an attitude that'll get the word out about this den of sedition.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#76)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 01:14:08 PM EST
    ..If I stumbled and I fell on my whatchmacallit would I lie on the floor unnoticed till my body had turned to carr---ion? Madame librar---ian?

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#78)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 01:58:19 PM EST
    The possible options then offered? An "honest mistake" or " a winger staffer", ... Double standard, JP? Pshaw! (Is that a polite enough expletive?) If this was deliberately done by an individual staffer, rather than an honest mistake, do you really think anyone left-of-center would arrange to block TalkLeft? C'mon, JP; this was likely an honest mistake, but if it wasn't, it must have been done by a winger. Yes, of course, I'm willing to see how it works out now that TL has queried the library. (BTW, JP, where's your limerick? You forgot your limerick! :)) I've talked with librarians about this subject; those I know say they'd be fired for imposing their own political views, left or right, on the library. Indeed, in some public library systems, it goes beyond that: the acquisitions staff is required, actively, to seek out books showing a range of political opinions. I think it's improbable in the extreme that a trained professional librarian deliberately caused the blockage.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#79)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 02:28:29 PM EST
    Sounds like she could use a little Relaxin at Camarillo (apologies to Bird).

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#77)
    by Aaron on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 02:34:44 PM EST
    deleted

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 02:36:04 PM EST
    deleted

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 02:37:43 PM EST
    deleted

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#80)
    by glanton on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 02:50:49 PM EST
    ppj - Go ahead and blow little kids to bits; just dont swear while youre doing it. And dont use profanity when youre lying either.
    That's beautiful, jondee. Sums up so much, so well, so briefly. I remember watching FOX (know your enemy) News the day those South Dakota crazies got their bill signed. Walking around in expensive suits, shaking hands. Not using profanity. Smiling.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#81)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 03:16:56 PM EST
    I can't believe you can stomach Fox News, Glanton. I've been known to walk over to televisions in the lobbies of Auto Dealerships, Banks, and Circuit Cities -- pretty much anywhere I am waiting or shopping -- and turning off televisions tuned to Fox News. If I visit a restaurant and it is on, I've been known to pester bartenders and waiters until the channel is changed. I've been known to refuse to leave a tip or get up and walk out of restaurants for refusing to do so. Anyway, back to the point. In case anyone here was unaware, blogs are quite often censored by Corporate Networks. You can't even read the homepages on many of the corporate networks I've logged onto. The reason is obvious; Corporations have no interest in allowing their minions to participate in dialogs, express opinions, or have access to alternative ideas. Oddly enough, executives, managers, and IT staff don't seem concerned when their users access sites like CNN, Fox News, ESPN, etc. Only alternative media like Blogs are usually blocked or monitored. Incidentally, the executives themselves seem to have their own Internet Access left Unfettered. This is almost uniformly true in my experience. Funny how that works...

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#82)
    by glanton on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 05:29:28 PM EST
    Tampa, It is an indulgence of mine, admittedly a pretty wasteful one. From time to time, maybe twice a week or so, I just like to see what is passing for reasoning with my enemies. Also I'll visit the website occasionally, along with other Right Propaganda such as Townhall and Powerline and NewsMax occasionally, it's a great way to anticipate by a day or two what scads of people will soon start passing off as their own independently reached "thoughts." A few of the posters on this very website, you can see coming in this way on a strikingly consistent basis. Often they plagiarize outright.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:08:38 PM EST
    Et al - Your problem is simple. You don't have to satisfy me. I don't care how you demonstrate your inability to communicate without using various hate words, messages and locker room language. I have been there, heard that and don't care how ignorant you make yourself look. I dear charlie, jondee, etc., am merely the messenger. The people you have to satisfy are those paying for the library. They are paying the piper and you will either dance to that tune or not be heard.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#84)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:11:36 PM EST
    Good for you Tampa! Though I don't tend to frequent restaurants that play Fox news, I may see it in the waiting room at the car repair shop. Next time I will try your approach. Unfortunately I don't think I will be able to leave without paying! But for the amount they charge, at least they can change the channel.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#85)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:34:29 PM EST
    Posted by glanton April 13, 2006 03:50 PM
    ppj - Go ahead and blow little kids to bits; just dont swear while youre doing it. And dont use profanity when youre lying either. That's beautiful, jondee. Sums up so much, so well, so briefly.
    Well, our Jim doesn't like to like to be confused with the facts. Never mind that nitwit who was walking around postulating his famous " raped, sodomized virgin" possible health exception. Oh, and the fact that the complaints said nothing about language or obscenity as has been mentioned no less than five times aren't gonna slow down our Jim. Now the taliban types in the SDSL and around the Country are faced with the fact that Pine Ridge Indian Reservation - bleak as it may be - is Sovereign Land and if they want to have a Family Planning Clinic serving everyone as well as the Native American Community, there's not a God damned thing they can do about it. They can just bury their little hearts as well as their dreams of religious persecution at Wounded Knee. 'Cause their ain't enough Small Pox-laced blankets in the World for them to do anything about it. Metaphorically speaking, that is.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#86)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:36:07 PM EST
    No one better tell PPJ about an author named Shakespeare, or Joyce. He might tip off the piper.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#87)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:45:03 PM EST
    Well, Jim says he's merely the messenger. Gee, that's swell. If your friends in the nice brown shirts start breaking windows and burning books, does the medium become the message, Jim or am I goin' too fast for ya again? Given the state of shrub's polls, they better check the sprinkler system in the Reichstag. Just a hunch. Now that's what I call obscenity.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#88)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:23:20 PM EST
    glanton - Given that the blocked computers are those for use by people under 18 I would bet money that the issue is language. BTW - You write:
    Now the taliban types in the SDSL and around the Country are faced with the fact that Pine Ridge Indian Reservation - bleak as it may be -
    Have you ever actually beeen there? Squeaky - Are you incapable of understanding the concept of me telling you that I have no problem, but that you have a problem with the people defining what is permitted? I think that is such a simple concept that even you could figure it out. Evidently I am wrong. Or perhaps you want to appear stupid just to be able to make a snarky comment. Hey. Congratulations. You did it! charlie - You? Going fast? Really? When? Was it during one of your daring baseball stories or was it when you were calling MIT professors "Exxon whor*s?"

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#89)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:31:30 PM EST
    We like to refer to them as Exxon strumpets. And then theres the wh*res that love them.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#90)
    by aw on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:35:40 PM EST
    Hmmmm, just wondering. There have been various rather explicit comments re acts against the President and Vice President. Could these be illegal?
    Only if acts of God are illegal, like bolts of lightning some of us have called for or, say, other actions by the fickle finger of fate.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#91)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:07:11 PM EST
    Posted by JimakaPPJ April 13, 2006 09:23 PM
    glanton - Given that the blocked computers are those for use by people under 18 I would bet money that the issue is language. BTW - You write: Now the taliban types in the SDSL and around the Country are faced with the fact that Pine Ridge Indian Reservation - bleak as it may be - Have you ever actually beeen there? Squeaky - Are you incapable of understanding the concept of me telling you that I have no problem, but that you have a problem with the people defining what is permitted? I think that is such a simple concept that even you could figure it out. Evidently I am wrong. Or perhaps you want to appear stupid just to be able to make a snarky comment. Hey. Congratulations. You did it! charlie - You? Going fast? Really? When? Was it during one of your daring baseball stories or was it when you were calling MIT professors "Exxon whor*s?" Now the taliban types in the SDSL and around the Country are faced with the fact that Pine Ridge Indian Reservation - bleak as it may be - Have you ever actually beeen there?
    Actually, I wrote that, Jim. I....guess.....I.....am....goin'...too...fast....for....ya..... No, I've never been to Darfur or Rwanda, either. Ya gonna tell me they're vacation hot spots now, too? What about the MIT Grads that believe in Global Warming? I'll see ya and raise ya. That's what I thought.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#92)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:20:03 PM EST
    I bet he's read The Bell Curve a few times too.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#93)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:31:18 PM EST
    He'd have to be graded on it.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#94)
    by glanton on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:38:05 PM EST
    Charlie, Why bother correcting him? Even when he gets the name right, Jim cites people the same way Sean Hannity and David Horowitz cite Ward Churchill.

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#95)
    by roy on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 09:44:15 PM EST
    Let's hope the library staff takes a more active role in deciding what gets filtered, by reviewing borderline sites, and just sort of skimming this particular page...

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#96)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 10:08:54 PM EST
    As a guest it would not be proper for me to take any action without being requested to do so by TL. I am surprised you are not aware of this concept. As an American citizen, it is your duty to report any illegal activity anywhere, whether you are a 'guest' or you have ownership of wherever the illegal activity was taking place. That you have no concept of your duty as an American citizen doesn't surprise me in the least, YMMV. Please join Al in the dunce corner and you'll be there because Al is just keeping your seat warm? Works for me :>)

    Re: TalkLeft Blocked by Library (none / 0) (#97)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 10:20:41 PM EST
    Comments are reaching 100, thread is being closed. Thanks for your comments.

    TalkLeft Blocked by Library | 97 comments (97 topical)