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Another Tuesday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 01:52:19 AM EST
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    Another Tuesday Open Thread | 99 comments (99 topical)
    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by HK on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:07:11 AM EST
    There has been a lot in the British press about Condoleeza Rice surrounding her recent visit. I seldom agree with her. Although she is clearly clever and capable, as a fellow female from an ethnic minority, I wonder if she has achieved her status because it looks good to have a black woman on side (pity she wasn't also a disabled lesbian and then the Republicans would have all bases covered.) But one thing I read made me feel outrage on her behalf. Apparently, in March 2003 Bush told a reporter after a press conference on Iraq that:
    I had a whole lot of other material about some of the things that Uday and Qusay Hussein do to their girlfriends, rape camps and torture...but I didn't want to say them in front of Condi
    Yep. Because even if we rise through the ranks to one of the most powerful jobs in the world, managing national security in a time of war, we little girlies still don't want to hear about anything icky.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:04:49 AM EST
    Yeah, God forbid clueless condi should have to hear about the awful disgusting consequences of the brain dead policies she helped implement. We wouldn't want to offend her delicate sensibilities, now. Gee, that's just too damned bad. It's about time these nitwits came to grips with the fact that they weren't playin' a game of Stratego or Risk. Christ, we'd be better off with Kramer and Newman callin' the shots at Jerry's table or on the subway than these clowns.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 06:00:18 AM EST
    HK, I suspect that bush probably thinks that the truth would be offensive to condi. He's probably right.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Johnny on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:06:40 AM EST
    Good News!!!!

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Slado on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:30:27 AM EST
    Cynthia McKinny. Wow. First she thinks she doesn't have to bring her security pass with her, then when she's called on it she attacks a capital police guard. Now she's holding press confrences with celebrities playing the race card. Pathetic.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:05:31 AM EST
    Since there's an open thread I'll put this here instead of the Delay thread. It's about the financial indescretions of another repug politician.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:31:29 AM EST
    FEMA is planning to kick out volunteers from New Orleans on April 10 -- see info on my blog and at this post on DailyKos. Let's start spreading this news over the blogopshere, so that FEMA will rescind their decision

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:40:02 AM EST
    I thought TalkLeft readers might be interested in the upcoming Symposium on the Role of Forensic Science in the Evolution of Criminal Justice Reform starting April 20th at Duquesne University. More than 40 of the country's leading criminal justice experts and medical practitioners will be presenting information on topics in forensic science and criminal justice reform. The theme was chosen in response to the waves of exonerations based on forensic scientific advances, which have changed the climate for criminal justice reform dramatically. DNA technology has demonstrated the fallibility of our criminal justice system, and highlights the need for reforms that both harness the growing potential and address the limitations of forensic science in meting out justice for all. A partial list of the presenters is below, but there is more information, including registration forms, on the conference website here.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:53:36 AM EST
    The presenters got cut off, but you can see the list online. It includes William Sessions, Senator Arlan Spector, Kirk Bloodsworth (the first capital conviction to be overturned as a result of DNA testing), Henry Lee, U.S. District Court Judge Jed Rakoff, Chicago Tribune Investigative Journalists Maurice Possley and Steve Mills, Rob Warden (Director of the Center on Wrongful Convictions), and more. We hope you will be able to join us!

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:56:34 AM EST
    Posted by Slado April 4, 2006 08:30 AM
    Cynthia McKinny. Wow. First she thinks she doesn't have to bring her security pass with her, then when she's called on it she attacks a capital police guard. Now she's holding press confrences with celebrities playing the race card.
    Looks like slado's playin' the race card to change the subject from toxic tommy and all the reptiles who are up on serious charges. Notice how many of her fellow CBC members are standin' shoulder to shoulder in solidarity with her, slado? Me either. She didn't have her lapel pin on. A lot of 'em don't wear it. She showed her picture ID. There's plenty of blame to go around here. They don't have to wear the pin. They don't have to stop. They don't have to go through metal detectors. It's a bad policy. It's a wonder this doesn't happen more often.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 09:07:16 AM EST
    They don't have to wear the pin. They don't have to stop. They don't have to go through metal detectors.
    Nice try, but "sorry Charlie, wrong tuna." Wearing the pin permits them to skip the extra security screening (which is, after all, for their own safety). If they chose to not wear the pin, they are going to have to take the time to identify themselves, possibly produce ID if required. Wearing the pin or not, they aren't allowed to hit the policeman or ignore their requests to stop and identify. The Capitol complex is a highly secured area. Much like an airport, no matter who you are, you must comply with the police officers or face the consequences. McKinney is using the most reprehensible defense: crying racism. Anyone who has ever been the victim of actual racism should be outraged. Also on the McKinney front: appears like she misappropriated funds to pay for the flight and hotel of Isaac Hayes (of Scientology-fame) during his attendance at an office opening in Atlanta. Unfortunately, House rules specifically prohibited this. Anyone care to condemn this or is everyone all right with it?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 09:38:16 AM EST
    It was only a matter of time I guess. Air Marshals slingin blow I may have to change my position on the whole air marshal thing:)

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 09:48:19 AM EST
    "Anyone who has ever been a victem of actual racism should be outraged." No doubt youre an expert and long time adovcate in these areas Chase, but, just what exactly are your qualifications that enable you to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that this incident had nothing to do with racism; I mean, aside from the fact that thats what "they" always claim?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:01:37 AM EST
    Check out peggylammforcongress.com. Colorado Congressional candidate Peggy Lamm takes another shot at the President, but this time takes on Republicans such as Dick Cheney and Rick O'Donnell as well.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:16:40 AM EST
    But he'd need one of those shoulder canisters to really do a good job on Rush.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:34:21 AM EST
    Posted by kdog April 4, 2006 10:38 AM It was only a matter of time I guess. Air Marshals slingin blow I may have to change my position on the whole air marshal thing:)
    I wonder if that FAM employee profile type has anything to do with the Rigoberto Alpizar shooting last December.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:46:56 AM EST
    In me news, I've redesigned the site linked to my name. It's basically a feed reader that lets you comment on sites that don't allow commments or that have restrictive commenting policies. For instance, you can read Instapundit's feed and comment on his posts. Likewise with DailyKos, RedState, HuffingtonPost, and a WaPo's politics feed. More feeds on request.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:52:16 AM EST
    Chase - Strictly my opinion, but I think you "give the benefit of a doubt" to bloated, flatulent, oxycotin poping, race baiting, talk show hosts who want to deflect public attention from the sinking ship theyre standing on.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:57:59 AM EST
    Deleted, this commenter is now banned.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 11:06:42 AM EST
    Chase- Six terms in office. Hmmmm... must be a black thing. Race baiters all of them. Bad taste at Kings funeral too.....hmmm...maybe you can do some missionary work in the black slums and teach the folk how to act nice and white. Bet you agree with the other missionaries
    On the March 31 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio program, Neal Boortz said that Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) "looks like a ghetto slut." ....Boortz said that McKinney's "new hair-do" makes her look "like a ghetto slut," like "an explosion at a Brillo pad factory," like "Tina Turner peeing on an electric fence," and like "a shih tzu."
    Wonder if she ever heard that before. Maybe she is sick and tired of being mistaken for the cleaning lady.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 11:11:02 AM EST
    Talk Left closed the Duke Lacrosse Team Rape Allegations thread Her stated reason is that it was nearing the 100 comment mark and the story is lacking for breaking news. Here's an update that hasn't been reported there: It is from charlotte.com (sorry I had to remove the link to fly under the post screening radar) DNA results expected soon in Duke lacrosse case Father says accuser ID'd lacrosse players as attackers from photos Father: "And she ID'd them through the mug shot." Cosby: "Was she able to ID all three?" Father: "Yes." Cosby: "Positively?" Father: "Yes." Cosby: "No doubt in her mind it was those three?" Father: "No, no doubt in her mind, she says those were the three that did it." Cosby: "Were all three members of the lacrosse team?" Father: "Yes, I think they were." When an Observer reporter talked to the father last week, he discussed seeing his daughter the day after the alleged attack and noticing bruising, saying she wouldn't tell him what was wrong. In the MSNBC interview, the father said his daughter's face was bruised and swollen so badly that she could barely open her eyes, she was scratched and her leg was injured so badly she couldn't get out of the car

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 11:16:50 AM EST
    Jondee: Rush is a moron. He's just to the right of McKinney on the Idiot Podium in my eyes. Do not characterize me a fan or supporter of his. Squeaky: It's a shame, isn't it? You would think that a growing city like Atlanta could field better candidates. It's so unfortunate for her constituents that they have no better choice than her. And I take offense at your racist comments, regarding "acting white." I don't know exactly where you get off saying that, but you should be embarrassed to post such words. McKinney should accept responsibility for what she did, a simple assault on an officer tasked with securing her safety. It's not the end of the world I realize, but her refusal to recognize her mistake is inflating this way out of proportion. Neal Boortz's comments were uncharacteristic for him. He's outspoken but, in what I've heard, he keeps it above water. His insensitive comments are deserving of rebuke. I'm pleased he immediately expressed a profuse apology.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 11:27:05 AM EST
    Chase - Sorry about "The Rush Assumption" (sounds like a Robert forsythe book), but I know he's been all over this story like a cheap, extra large, suit and Im getting a little trigger happy.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 11:27:36 AM EST
    Deleted for language. This commenter is limited to four comments a day. All in excess will be deleted. It's not his first violation.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 11:40:32 AM EST
    You would think that a growing city like Atlanta could field better candidates. It's so unfortunate for her constituents that they have no better choice than her. Yes, you would. And in truth, they have had better candidates, but they still choose her. It's just a shame that Denise Majette decided to try for the Senate before she had even two years in the House under her belt. Cynthia McKinney is an amazing example of the worst people rising to the top. She is a racist, an anti-semite, and a coddler of African dictators. I can only hope that her ugly attempt at playing the race card has, at the least, wised up yet one more Atlantan about what they have been sending to represent them in Congress. But it's not likely.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 11:58:02 AM EST
    Chase- You guys love letting it rip and then offer the obligatory apology for making the 'mistake' of saying what you really think. Well apologies do not cut it. Neither do code words. McKinney represents her constituency, a constituency that you obviously would prefer to conveniently disappear. Better choice indeed. You sound like The Chimp in Iraq who wants to get rid of Jafari. BTW WTF do you mean by the words "growing city of Atlanta". Sounds like code to me.
    And I take offense at your racist comments, regarding "acting white." I don't know exactly where you get off saying that, but you should be embarrassed to post such words.
    I am not in the least bit embarrassed. Why is McKinney's action so noteable to you anyway? Does she represent those who are too uppity for you? How would you prefer McKinney to act if not "white"? Bet you she gets reelected. Bet you Delay goes to jail.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:00:30 PM EST
    "she is a racist, an anti-semite, and a coddler of African dictators." And Ted Kennedy and Kerry are socialists. Of course, you accusing her of racism and anti-semitism has nothing to do with "playing the race card" ; only (liberal) minorities can do that. Maybe when they dump her, they can ride that redneck oppurtunist Zell Miller out of the state on a rail too.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:05:04 PM EST
    You've got to love the way the shrub shills are trottin' out that boneheaded Cynthia McKinney to try and change the subject from toxic tommy and the rest of the reptiles who are up for serious crimes and corruption. No other Dems are standing with her, yet they trot this out in hopes of changing the subject. Who's playin' the race card?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:10:41 PM EST
    Jondee, Another typical Jondee post. All venom, no sense. Get a grip. Cynthia McKinney has a long history of blaming white people and jews for every defeat in her life. How is noting this fact "playing the race card"? Once again, you are utterly incoherent. I would say the same thing about any person with her history, regardless of their color or creed. What annoys you is that Cynthia's skin color does not protect her from such justified accusations, probably because you have swallowed the standard liberal mantra that black people cannot be racist, ever. Believe that if you will, but Cynthia McKinney and Louis Farrakhan, to name just two, prove otherwise. I don't know that Zell Miller is a racist (and I have nothing againt rednecks per se, as they come in all political persuasions and beliefs), but if he is, then yes, he too should be "run out of town". As I've said before, but will no doubt find cause to say again: Go back to regurgitating text from other sites as your primary contribution. It wasn't original, but it at least had the merit of occasionally making sense.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:13:55 PM EST
    Squeakster: I didn't apologize for anything I said; I have no need to apologize. And, imbecile, "growing city of Atlanta" means just that: Atlanta is quickly becoming the capital of the South, representative of the impressive growth of the region. So pipe down, little child. Her action in notable to me because she assaulted a Capital policeman. By your shoddy logic (which I can't say surprises me) the actions of a representative should get no play outside their home district. Sorry bucko, it doesn't work that way. Jeralyn: That's pretty weak deleting my comment "for language" as though there was actually questionable language in the post. And limiting my posts? Give me a break. I thought this site was slightly above the likes DailyKos and TP but I guess I'll have to reconsider. Is this really just another collection is closed-off, beyond reproach Angry Leftists? Say it ain't so.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:25:15 PM EST
    Chase-
    .....but I guess I'll have to reconsider.
    yes, what were you thinking?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:34:32 PM EST
    Last week I noted that the demonstrations in LA were designed by America haters. We now know who was behind them."
    The Act Now to Stop War & End Racism (ANSWER) coalition, which organized the Los Angeles march to win "full rights for undocumented workers," is confident its new "national action" will prove successful. ANSWER's steering committee includes the Free Palestine Alliance, the Partnership for Civil Justice, the Nicaragua Network, the Korea Truth Commission, the Muslim Student Association, the Mexico Solidarity Network and the Party for Socialism and Liberation. It denounces as racism attempts to criminalize illegal aliens.


    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:35:11 PM EST
    j.p - I think we've established that I "regurgitate texts from other sites" and now that youve savored that bit of recycled cud once again, lets see some substantive proof for your assertions that McKinney "blames whites and jews for every defeat in her life. And try to keep it to a thousand words or less.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by roy on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:35:38 PM EST
    I would be interesting to check for any commonality in the list of commenters who (justifiably, imho) remind us that politicians are not above the law when Bush & Friends do something sketchy, and the list of those who (humorously, imho) complain about McKinney being required to obey the law.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:45:30 PM EST
    Roy - The difference being we've had years to flesh out the facts of the case with Bush & co and a few weeks for the McKinney case.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Slado on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:47:52 PM EST
    Oh Roy, liberals don't have to obey the law. They are in the minority and should be given special treatment.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:58:48 PM EST
    Nice troll slado. Nobodys saying "liberals dont have to obey the law." As for the minority bit, taken a look at the polls lately? No wonder youre incoherant.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 01:02:57 PM EST
    As for the minority bit, taken a look at the polls lately?
    Can't wait to see how that works out for you this November.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 01:04:10 PM EST
    deleted, commenter banned

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by Slado on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 01:05:27 PM EST
    Jondee, take a look at the last 3 elections. Those are the only polls that count. Kerry won the 2004 poll but lost the election. Howard Dean won the democratic 2004 poll but didn't get the nomination. People poll liberal and vote conservative. We'll see what happens in 2006. Also I apologize for lumping liberals together. Some liberals think the laws don't apply to them because of their preceived minority status. See 1/2 million man march in LA and Mrs. McKinney. Thanks for calling me on the generalization.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by swingvote on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 01:28:25 PM EST
    Okay Jondee, I'll admit I mispoke. I'm sure there is some indicent in her past, possibly a broken fingernail or a stubbed toe, which Cynthia did not blame on white people or jews (but then again, maybe her daddy did it for her that time too). On the other hand, I forgot about the Indians being behind her loss in 2002, as in I am not talking about the Republicans who crossed over to vote for my opponent, but the heavy involvement of Indians in the primary. So Cynthia's daddy says it was the jews, but Cynthia says it was the Indians. Has it occurred to neither of these people that the voters saw Denise Majette as a better choice, perhaps because Cynthia has a history of failing to serve her constituents anything more than another weekly dose of embarassment? Sure they did, and, naturally, it was the evil Republicans, as inWe saw massive Republican crossover into the Democratic primary. Call it however you like, Jondee. Reality has never been your strongpoint. In Cynthia's defense, I will note that this issue IS being blown out of proportion because she is a Representative (then again, if she weren't, she probably would have been arrested on the spot for assaulting a Capitol Hill Police Officer). But so what? Imagine if this had been Tom DeLay, Trent Lott, or even some obscure Republican back bencher. Jondee would be foaming at the mouth, Charlie would be in a coma after his brain had seized in delight, and, in all likelihood, we wouldn't be talking about this on an Open Thread but on a dedicated thread covering all the latest updates. Cynthia McKinney chose to enter politics, and she has to live by the rules of that universe. And the first rule is to not act as if you think you are above the rules everyone else has to follow. How hard is it to put the stupid pin on, OR have your ID out, OR make damn sure you have eye contact and recognition from the officer before you walk around the security checkpoint as if you are above such things. McKinney did none of these things because she's an arrogant twit. Which is also why, I think, the Capitol Police are talking about pressing charges. If she had just apologized for striking for the officer and not made a habit of refusing to follow the rules, I doubt very much they would be doing this and this story would have died by now. Instead we get yet another round of "racism" cries from McKinney and another lame public appearance by Danny Glover and Harry Belafonte, and it looks more and more like charges may be filed. I wonder if, when they are, she'll have to step down from any committees, al la Tom DeLay?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 01:39:58 PM EST
    JP-
    But so what? Imagine if this had been Tom DeLay, Trent Lott, or even some obscure Republican back bencher.
    We wouldnot have heard about and the capitol policeman would have of lost his job. SNOW: Okay, so at this point, you know -- are you willing to let bygones be bygones? DELAY: Absolutely not. Texas should not allow a district attorney from Travis County have this kind of power. And they can take his power away from him because there was the Texas legislature that gave him this power. And I think that will happen in the next session of the Texas legislature. SNOW: Oh, really? DELAY: Yes. think progress

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by Slado on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:01:56 PM EST
    Squeaky, Delay is being prosecuted. So what's your point? He also is not running for re-elections becase he doesn't want to damage his party. So again what's your point? McKinney hasn't even been charged but if she is will that be wrongful or can you only bash republicans in response to everything?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by Slado on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:11:04 PM EST
    CNN-France Does anyone else marvel at this? This is interesting on so many levles. Before you accuse me of France Bashing I only say I'm just interested. If France wants to keep ruining thier economy fine, but this is a story worth comment. Comments?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:15:21 PM EST
    Slado-My point is that anyone who fu*ks with Delay, or moves out of lockstep gets destroyed by his political machine. JP's comparison of Delay et al with McKinney is Apples and Oranges, Slingshot and A-bomb. It is naive at best dishonest at worst. Delay as a parting shot is arranging to get Ronnie Earle, the Texas DA who prosecuted him, fired. Let's see if McKinney even attempts the same with the WH policeman.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by roy on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:32:38 PM EST
    Slado, I've read up on the French law a bit. Sadly, I don't have any definitive sources because I don't read French and don't have a good starting point for researching French law. Best I can figure, it would still be illegal to fire somebody for an arbitrary reason. Thus, you can't fire somebody for being Black, being Muslim, or not laughing at your jokes. The big change is that the burden of proof rests on the ex-employee to prove that the reason was inappropriate, rather than requiring the employer to prove they have an acceptable reason before firing them like they have to now. Articles usually sum that up as "can fire employees without giving a reason", which is true, but incomplete because if the employee can prove the reason was taboo then the employer will face consequences. Not so different from working in an "at-will employment" state in the U.S., which not everybody likes but at least we have single-digit unemployment rates. If that's correct, and I'd love to be proven wrong because I'm reading between a lot of lines, then I can't think of the rioters as anything other than spoiled children. The government told them it would remove employers' rights of property and association in order to protect the children's "right" to a job, and now the children think that's how things are supposed to be instead of just a buy-off executed by mob rule. Optimistically, maybe the children know it's a scam and simply want to continue it.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:37:23 PM EST
    j.p - Im sure with another hefty chunk of bandwidth you could get around eventually to making a substantive arguement for your charge that "McKinney blames whites and jews (and Indians) for her every defeat"; you know, somthing beyond "cuz I say so", but maybe you should save it for another, under utilized thread. Hell, you take up the whole thing and round up (eventually) Mckinney, those pinkos Hillary and Kerry and Fidel Chavez in one (long) fell swoop.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:43:01 PM EST
    Jondee: j.p. just pimpslapped you with McKinney's own words and that's all you have? "Quit proving me wrong because it's just taking up way too much space." Sucka MC.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by roy on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:44:15 PM EST
    Addendum: if French law made it as hard to quit a job as it is to fire somebody, progressives would be justifiably shouting "slavery".

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by swingvote on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 03:04:57 PM EST
    j.p - Im sure with another hefty chunk of bandwidth you could get around eventually to making a substantive arguement for your charge that "McKinney blames whites and jews (and Indians) for her every defeat"; you know, somthing beyond "cuz I say so", but maybe you should save it for another, under utilized thread. Christ, Jondee. I knew you were incoherent. I didn't know you were illiterate. Or is just lazy? Clicking a link too hard for you after a long day of manning the barricades to defend McKinney. Typical.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 03:15:44 PM EST
    So a Denver middle school actually banned clothes with the United States Flag on them. Is that a progressive policy? Nice going Colorado. Funny, but I'm glad to be in California for once.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by BigTex on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 03:21:55 PM EST
    Mass is forcing people to obtain health care.
    If all goes as planned, poor people will be offered free or heavily subsidized coverage; those who can afford insurance but refuse to get it will face increasing tax penalties until they obtain coverage; and those already insured will see a modest drop in their premiums.
    This is a worrisome trend. This is using a tax not to support the needs of the state, but rather to force people to do what the state wants. If someone can afford health insurance but doesn't want it that's their choice. If they want to run the risk of catestrophic health care costs, let them take the risk. It's one thing for the government to offer health care to those without, that's a good idea if done correctly, but to force someone to purchase health insurance seems to be a gross abuse of government power.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 03:29:34 PM EST
    Not that you would ever distort, leave out key elements, or substitute fact for opinion Big Tex.... you wouldn't happen to have a link to your socialism takes hold of the liberal swamp called Massachusetts story, would you?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by BigTex on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 03:48:21 PM EST
    Here you go Squeaky.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 04:00:34 PM EST
    Chase - "Pimp slapped". I knew you were fresh off the streets Chase, that must be why you know so much about victims-of-actual-racism. Btw, one quote dosnt exactly substantiate the claim that she blames whites and jews for her every setback.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 04:20:28 PM EST
    Btw, gotta love that lead character on General Hospital handle.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by BigTex on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 04:21:33 PM EST
    So a Denver middle school actually banned clothes with the United States Flag on them.
    As disgusting as that is P, at least it is better than what happened here. Reagan high school flew the Mexican flag with the US and Texas flags last week. I'm still amazed that a government institution would fly the flag of another country.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 04:29:07 PM EST
    I believe it used to be considered desecration to wear the flag or a facsimile thereof. Is this incident a p.c thing, or, a super patriotism thing?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 04:31:51 PM EST
    " The flag is a symbol of the fact that man is still a herd animal." Albert Einstein

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#60)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 04:35:26 PM EST
    Big Tex- The Plan looks amazing. No raise in taxes with the goal of insuring everyone in the state. The plan was crafted in order...
    ...to protect $385 million pledged by the federal government over each of the next two years if the state can show it is on a path to reducing its number of uninsured.
    Sounds like a real compromise bill. Your problem with the bill? Do you know lots of people who can afford insurance and do not have it? The individual mandate ($1000) seems negligible compared to the benefits and real savings gained by insuring that all are covered.
    Liberals typically support employer mandates, while conservatives generally back individual responsibility. "The novelty of what's happened in this building is that instead of saying 'let's do neither,' leaders are saying 'let's do both,'" said John McDonough of Health Care for All. "This will have a ripple effect across the country."
    The plan -- hailed as a national model and approved just 24 hours after the final details were released -- would dramatically expand access to health care over the next three years.[emphasis mine]
    A different version of the same article is here. It leaves out the text above in bold and has other slight differences.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#61)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 04:50:10 PM EST
    I believe it used to be considered desecration to wear the flag or a facsimile thereof.
    There you go thinking again. It's never been desecration to wear a flag design. Wearing an actual flag was the act which was against the U.S. Flag Code. I'll refer you to section 8(d) and (j).

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 04:55:49 PM EST
    1. in me news, i've redesigned the site linked to my name. it's basically a feed reader that lets you comment on sites that don't allow
    commments or that have restrictive commenting policies. for instance, you can read instapundit's feed and comment on his posts. likewise with dailykos, redstate, huffingtonpost, and a wapo's politics feed. more feeds on request.
    what's restrictive about dkos's policy?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#63)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:00:56 PM EST
    BigTex- I was perplexed by the fact that your linked text to Andrew Breitbart's news blog differed from the Boston Globe's version of the same article by the same author Steve LeBlanc. It turns out that Andrew Breitbart is affiliated with Drudge and NRO. Guess he has license to re-edit AP releases to eliminate 'liberal bias'. Patrick-What is the difference between an actual flag and an actual flag that is part of clothing? Aren't they both symbols representing the same thing? Once a flag is used in clothing, in whole or in part, does it somehow stop being a flag? I don't get it.
    The Flag Protection Act of 1989 was struck down by the Supreme Court decision, United States vs. Eichman, decided on June 11, 1990.
    I guess the SC did not get it either.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#64)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:04:53 PM EST
    Pat - There I go thinking again. The part of the story you conveniently left out is that certain tensions at the school are apparently at an almost all time high due in part to the immigration wedge-issue fervor thats recently been whipped up and the fact that the school has quite a mixed population.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#65)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:04:56 PM EST
    Squeaky, If you can't figure it out, then I apologize...But I can't say I'm surprised.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#66)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:05:36 PM EST
    Jondee, So? we should limit freedoms for some tensions?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#67)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:07:16 PM EST
    BTW, I didn't leave it out, I linked to it. Sorry if that's too obvious for you.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#68)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:07:44 PM EST
    Or, maybe its just another liberal conspiracy against the REAL Americans.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#69)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:08:08 PM EST
    Skippy-The members at Kos most likely banned BigTex's comments as they have very, very, low tolerance for trolls or those perceived as trolls.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#70)
    by Slado on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:08:39 PM EST
    Squeky Tom Delay was the "hammer" but I don't know if he harmed anyone in anyway other then to hurt thier feelings or beat them badly politically. Anyone that feels "crushed" by his tactics is just being a baby. He didn't shoot anybody for goodness sakes. Anywho it doesn't matter anymore. He will become the 2000's Newt Gingrich. Raise lots of money for the party. Articulate the message clearly on Talk TV (he already did that tonight on Brit hume @ Matthews ) and be a royal pain in the ass for democrats going forward. Watch out Squeaky :-)

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#71)
    by BigTex on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:11:00 PM EST
    Squeaky - I got the info via a link from refdesk. They switched to this news source a bit ago, I had never known why. Thanks for the info. My only problem with the plan is that it forces people to buy health insurance. I'm in favor of the other aspects of the plan.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#72)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:14:18 PM EST
    Patrick- not only did I read your link I quoted from it. Guess you only read the parts that fit your idea of the flag being a sacred object. BTW- The SC evidentily has the same problem as I do. Guess we are all dummies. Thanks god for smarties like you to illuminate such 'obvious' concepts for those of us who cannot distinguish things cut from the same cloth.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#73)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:15:05 PM EST
    Yeah, when kids could get hurt at school or feel compelled to take sides when all they want to do is learn. This from the guy who dosnt see much wrong with making preemptive arrests before demonstrations.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#74)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:15:52 PM EST
    I never said the flag was a sacred opbjet. Strawman meet Squeaky.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#75)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:16:57 PM EST
    Even with both of you in concert, it's still like matching wits with an unarmed opponent.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#76)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:18:07 PM EST
    This from the guy who dosnt see much wrong with making preemptive arrests before demonstrations.
    No I don't as long as there's probable cause for the arrest. Yeah, following the law, what a cad I am.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#77)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:22:28 PM EST
    You sure proved that.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#78)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:22:58 PM EST
    BigTex- Do you know anyone who can afford health insurance who does not have it? I believe that the $1000. penalty does not automatically kick in either for those ununsureds. It does in '08 if a certain percentage of the population is still insured and then in '09. The only ones I know that are not insured are those who cannot afford it and whose work doesn't cover them. But maybe there are lots out there that just refuse to be insured on principal even though they have the dough; I just do not know any of them. All in all it looks like a great plan.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#79)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:24:55 PM EST
    Jondee, Was that an insult?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#80)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:26:11 PM EST
    Because like I said in an earlier thread. If you are representative of the left, I'm glad I'm not on it.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:33:20 PM EST
    Thats alright Pat anyone who has the kind of omniscience to be able to overrule, from a considerable distance, school administrators who are actually on the scene, is obviously in class by themselves.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#82)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:39:48 PM EST
    Posted by justpaul April 4, 2006 04:04 PM j.p - Im sure with another hefty chunk of bandwidth you could get around eventually to making a substantive arguement for your charge that "McKinney blames whites and jews (and Indians) for her every defeat"; you know, somthing beyond "cuz I say so", but maybe you should save it for another, under utilized thread.
    Christ, Jondee. I knew you were incoherent. I didn't know you were illiterate. Or is just lazy? Clicking a link too hard for you after a long day of manning the barricades to defend McKinney. Typical.
    JP, another day, another round of bigoted bs from you. All that shuckin' and jivin' and ya still can't conjure up one piece of evidence. Not one specific. This is is the sum total of all your stuff. If you can't play the race card, you got bupkis. In other words, you just answered their charge by going, "Yeah, that's about the size of it."

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#83)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:41:42 PM EST
    Posted by Patrick April 4, 2006 06:26 PM
    Because like I said in an earlier thread. If you are representative of the left, I'm glad I'm not on it.
    You're glad! Imagine how relieved we are.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#84)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:41:55 PM EST
    Patrick-
    I never said the flag was a sacred opbjet. Strawman meet Squeaky.
    I did use the word sacred loosley and did not mean to put words in your mouth. What word or words would you use to describe the flag? My understanding is that you believe that the flag needs special protection? Is that correct?

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#85)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:52:03 PM EST
    Squeaky, Not legal protections, no. But the right of people to wear the colors as a patch or emblem on a coat is being infringed, a matter of free speech, and that doesn't bother you? Charlie, Then I guess it's a win win. You're a recruiting poster for the right.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#86)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:58:13 PM EST
    MLK, as great a man as there's been in the History of this Country was gunned down 38 years ago tonight and he's upstaged by some swine jumpin' before he got pushed. Gee, I wonder what toxic tommy's position on the MLK Holiday was.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#87)
    by squeaky on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 06:23:00 PM EST
    Patrick-
    But the right of people to wear the colors as a patch or emblem on a coat is being infringed
    Certainly not a progressive policy, why would you think that? If anything it is based on mundane experience by the school cops. It is not just flags it is any symbol that would tout a position on the war.
    "We started seeing name calling," Shepherd said. "Safety is my first concern so I'm going to do things to keep us from getting to a point where anybody is hurt or being suspended for fighting." She said the dress code diffused the tension immediately.
    Of all people I would expect you to get it. Free speech is limited for teens in school, much like it is in their homes. Kinda like drunken driving checkpoints. The safety of the whole is sometimes worth personal hassle. Unfortunately in the latter example the ones protecting the whole get carried away and look to expand way beyond DWI checks. The agenda of the school is to provide a safe place for children to learn. The tendency is to do the least to accomplish that. Sad it is not the same with many police, they usually just want expanded power so as to to add notches to their belt. As Gulianni advised his police force before a NYC protest, knowing full well that the arrests would be thrown out in court, "arrest them all, let the courts decide".

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#88)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 06:47:07 PM EST
    This is really a no brainer, particularly in an already highly charged situation involving school kids. And btw, in case anyone missed it, the ban is on ALL clothing that could be construed as making a political statement. But, you know how it is, once O'Reilly or whoever does the War on the Flag spiel it sends ripples through the wingnut universe that are irreversable and must be acted upon.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#89)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:10:34 PM EST
    Chase, Anyone can call someone and imbecile, The trick with blogging is to call someone and imbecile without actually using the word as a noun. Until then you get a four-a-day.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#90)
    by jimcee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 09:02:00 PM EST
    Representative McKinney: YOU PEON! DON"T YOU KNOW WHO I AM? WHY YOU LOWLY CRETEN... HOW DARE YOU! Capitol Hill Cop: Of course I know who you are, I just wanted to be demonized as a facsistic rascist and that is why I provoked you to scream at me and attack me with your cellphone when you shoved me aside. Afterall all cops are racist and I just wanted to prove that for all to see. And how else would I get all this attention from stars like Danny Glover and Harry Belefonte. McKinney: Don't you talk back to me you racist! Rep. Polosi said..... oh wait she didn't say anyhting.... Harry Reid had this to say: 'The racist attitudes of the CH cops is evident, just ask Rep McKinney....'. Just joshing, he didn't comment either. In NYS there is a State Senantor, Ada Smith I believe her name is, that threw coffee in the face of an assistant before she fired her. She also attempted to run a State Trooper check point in her state funded car. She called a former aide a 'fat gay man' and threatened another with a cleaver. She was disciplined today. The punishment was that she lost her state provided automobile and her position on a committee was forfeited but she remains a senator. Funny how that 'Don't you know who I am' thing seems to run in certain parties. I'll leave the rest to you. PS Gay Patriot has an interesting thread about invective in the comments threads of blogs and how in some circles it passes as discourse. For what its worth the comment section on TL has been most recently inhabited by those who feel non-constructive criticism is an argument for thier side. Instead it is just childish self-gratification hiding behind the skirts of a Left wing site. In other words; use your own words, form your own arguments, don't whine about lack of links just argue your points. Last but not least don't fall into the snide, childish, churlish, ill-formed forensics of the idiots that use these methods. And above all, don't feed the trolls no matter what side they troll from.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#91)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 09:22:21 PM EST
    "Just childish gratification hiding behind the skirts of a left wing site." Which means what - that only the left leaning posters do what you described ? Also some might say that creating a purely fictitous dialogue based on events that you have no first hand knowledge of in order to influence the court of opinion, followed by a goading "funny, how that "you dont know who I am thing" thing seems to run in certain parties" is a species of under-the-wire trolling that is almost assured to elicit a "trollish" reaction at some point - particularly at a left leaning site.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#92)
    by jondee on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 09:45:08 PM EST
    Trolling isnt always the obvious invective and name calling, more often than not its posting things that are blatantly dishonest and disengenuous in an effort (acknowledged or not) to eventually elicit invective and causing the one who loses patience and reacts to be booted from the site.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#93)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 09:54:33 PM EST
    Yeah, sure, jimcee, I'm gonna take your word for it. You couldn't write a three dollar check without 37 cosigners, sport. Such is your reputation for honesty and forthrightness. Instead it is just childish self-gratification hiding behind the skirts of a Left wing site.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#94)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:44:02 PM EST
    Last but not least don't fall into the snide, childish, churlish, ill-formed forensics of the idiots that use these methods. Which was preceeded by... Instead it is just childish self-gratification hiding behind the skirts of a Left wing site. LOL

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#95)
    by BigTex on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 11:57:56 PM EST
    Do you know anyone who can afford health insurance who does not have it?
    I know a few who are self employed and do not have health insurance. Also, I know some who at one point were probablly capable (under this plan's criteria) of purchasing and did not have insurance. Now, if the plan were to allow risk pooling so everyone could purchase at the volume discount rate, then some of the ones I know would not be uninsured. It's not a big problem number wise, but for those caught in the snare, it's a sizable problem because they are not buying the insurance because it costs too much.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#96)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 05:39:18 AM EST
    Ah, so that's your idea of evidence, big tex? Misspelled anecdotal nonsense? No sale.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#97)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 07:46:27 AM EST
    Maybe the address is on the shuttered screen door. Even Butch Williams, who is representing Daniel Flannery, said "there were no numbers on the house, only a faded imprint low on the front door and hidden from the street by a porch rail." That porch rail is about a half inch thick. Lawyers for Lacrosse Players Dispute Accusations

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#98)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 07:58:52 AM EST
    Thanks, everyone. Comments are at 100 so I'm closing the thread. There will be another open thread soon.

    Re: Another Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#99)
    by BigTex on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 07:59:00 AM EST
    Misspelled anecdotal nonsense?
    At least I have subsnative points rather than tripe attacks based on points that have nothing to do with the discussion. And no, it's not anecdotal, it is few in example, but it is examples of those who fall through the cracks in the proposed plans. More specifically, it is people who make enough to qualify as capable of buying insurance, but who in fact are not capable of buying insurance. That's direct evidrnce not ancedotal evidence. Don't confuse the small numbers with lack of directness. And before you go down the path of insurance is a godo thing yadda yadda yadda, remember I support a national prevenative and major medical insurance plan.

    Another Tuesday Open Thread | 99 comments (99 topical)