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Making Democracy Work in Virginia

By TChris, Section Elections
Posted on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 06:42:57 AM EST
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by TChris

A reformed felon who has paid his debt to society, who works hard and pays taxes, should be entitled to vote. Reformed felons are not second-class citizens, and society is not well served by depriving them of a stake in their government. Felony disenfranchisement laws differ from state to state, but Virginia’s is among the worst.

Felons must wait for years after their release from prison to apply for restoration of their voting rights, and the government must decide on each petition individually, case by case. ... Even Texas and Georgia restore felons' voting rights automatically when they have completed probation and parole.

A NY Times editorial today calls on Gov. Mark Warner to “strike a blow for democracy with the stroke of a pen by restoring the right to vote to more than 240.000 felons who are now out of prison.” It’s the right thing to do.

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    Making Democracy Work in Virginia | 14 comments (14 topical)
    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#1)
    by SeeEmDee on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 07:23:12 AM EST
    "What?! Re-enfranchise rehabilitated citizens? And help revive a largely moribund oppositional political Party, whom they are the natural allies of? We can't have that! That makes a mockery of justice! It must be fought tooth and nail, so that my Party of the Moral and the Just (somebody tell Jack to quit playing with his money when I'm speaking, dammit!) shall remain ascendant! More "law and order" rhetoric is in need! More dark muttering about 'broken windows' is required. Escalate the War on (Some) Drugs, arrest more minorities, and build more prisons we can no longer afford to run! That's how we'll take care of this problem!"

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 07:32:48 AM EST
    Im not from Virginia, but I'm pretty sure that the right thing to do is to shut up and let Virginia handle legislative authority that the constitution expressly reserves for it.

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 08:01:54 AM EST
    Variable I guess you feel this , Shut up theory should have applied to slavery states? I think suggesting TL to Shut Up is inapproiate. This is a discussion forum where our voices can be heard and hopefully resonate even in states of which we do not reside. By the way I agree with TL on this one 100%

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 08:10:45 AM EST
    We like to think this country was founded on these really high ideals (and to some extent it was), but the reality is, the Revolution was largely a tax revolt...remember the saying, "No taxation without representation." Given that this is the primary foundation for this country, I would say that any citizen of the U.S. that we prohibit from voting, should also be completely exempt from any form of taxation (federal income, local sales and property, etc.).

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#5)
    by DonS on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 10:04:19 AM EST
    I am from Virginia and I work with a lot of released felons. The Virginia system is cumbersome, repressive and counter to encouraging return to good citizenship. Warner will never touch this issue in a broad stoke; presidential ambitions and all that. What's the advantage in not restoring the right to vote? Its not like its a danger to anyone else. And its not like a deterrent to commission of crimes. Its just punitive because we feel like being punitive.

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#6)
    by Patrick on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 10:35:19 AM EST
    Talkleft has had several threads on this issue, and many people miss the key points. Virgina has a method in place for the restoration of these rights. If it is too cumbersome, then change it to make it less so. Indescriminantly giving these rights back to people who have lost them through criminal conduct lessens the value of these rights to all people. If the process is hard and cumbersome that may not be a bad thing. If someone has to work hard to have a right restored (Which was taken through due process) perhaps they will value that right more and not again give it up so freely by committing a criminal act.

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#7)
    by Patrick on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 10:38:36 AM EST
    Well, variable, you're improving. You're half right. Ya got the shut up part right.
    Once again Chuck contributes greatly to the debate. What is it he is so fond of saying? Oh yeah, Dismissed.

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 10:45:38 AM EST
    Fair enough Virginia. But then I would think it's also only fair for felons denied the right to vote to be exempt from any laws passed by the state and federal legislatures. Similar to the "no taxation without representation" ethos of our fore fathers.

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#9)
    by Patrick on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 11:04:04 AM EST
    But then I would think it's also only fair for felons denied the right to vote to be exempt from any laws passed by the state and federal legislatures.
    I think it's just that belief that got them where they are in the first place.

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#10)
    by roy on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 11:35:11 AM EST
    To those who support this idea, how do you decide who gets to vote? Nobody seems to mind that we deny voting rights to children, non-citizens, the genuinely severely mentally ill, and felons currently serving their sentences. Those who can vote in their state of residence can't vote in other states even if they pay taxes in and are heavily involved in those states; again with no outcry. I'm not trying to confuse the issue, I'm just always curious about what factors people use to distinguish right decisions from wrong. Lest I be totally reasonable, I'll complain about TChris's use of "reformed felon". Liberals often point out that our prisons can make criminals worse, not better, so we can't assume that a felon who has finished his sentence is reformed. The proposed restoration of rights would apply equally to reformed and unreformed felons, but TChris glosses over the unreformed. (Personally I rather like what we have in Texas. They get their vote back, but sentences for repeat offenders are so harsh that the unreformed probably won't get to vote very much)

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 02:46:46 PM EST
    Good question roy. I'd be interested to hear an answer as well. This non-supporter thinks every citizen over 18 who is under the jurisdiction of US law and/or pays taxes should have the right to vote. No exceptions.

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#12)
    by Patrick on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 03:23:02 PM EST
    Felons must wait for years after their release from prison to apply for restoration of their voting rights, and the government must decide on each petition individually, case by case. This is in sharp contrast with the many states that automatically restore felons' voting rights when they are out of prison. Even Texas and Georgia restore felons' voting rights automatically when they have completed probation and parole.
    Well, where I come from a person can be on parole for up to 4 years after they get out of prison. So while both statements in the op/ed are techically correct they are certainly not "In sharp contrast." The debt to society argument holds no water with me. Part of the sentence for being convicted of felony crimes is the loss of voting rights. It's not a debt that can be repaid and it's not exactly an unknown, little used part of the law.
    African-Americans are far more likely than whites to have their votes taken away by these laws.
    Really? There's a law on the books that takes a citizens right to vote away based on their color? Or is the assertion that blacks are more likely to get convicted of a felony than whites or other minorities? I'm not supporting permanent revocation of votong rights. I believe there should be a process in every state that allows for review and reinstatement. I am opposed to blanket reinstatement as it serves no purpose other than more coddling of criminals. If they are in fact reformed, they should have no problem jumping through a few hoops to restore their rights. Make them earn it and they will respect it and themsleves more.

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#13)
    by Patrick on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 03:49:42 PM EST
    Chuckie the cheerleader. Thanks for your opinion, but somehow I knew you'd jump on the weakest argument of all. How is your debt paid if your debt included the loss of the right to vote? Sure, you've done the time, maybe paid the fines, but you still can't get past the fact that the loss of voting priviledges is not a new addition to the law. Want the right to vote back? Fine with me, go through the process and get it back.

    Re: Making Democracy Work in Virginia (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 11, 2006 at 05:41:31 PM EST
    Someone please cite for me where it explictly states in the Constitution that a convicted felon cannot vote. Are state laws superceding federal laws here?

    Making Democracy Work in Virginia | 14 comments (14 topical)