home

Friday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:13:19 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

I haven't had time to read the news today. Is anything happening? This thread's for you. I'll be back here tonight.

< Rikers to Close Unit for Gays | Kyrgyzstan Ends the Death Penalty >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Friday Open Thread | 39 comments (39 topical)
    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by BigTex on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:21:04 AM EST
    Do any of y'all have New Years traditions? Also, what do y'all think the most important event(s) of the year have been?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:24:06 AM EST
    Yes, things are happening. Looks like PPJ got his wish.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:24:47 AM EST
    Happy New Year everyone! Make it a free one!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:36:26 AM EST
    The Egyptian police raided a Sudanese refugee camp in Cairo yesterday. Our buddies in the War on Terror do us proud.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:36:30 AM EST
    Macro, there's too much overlap, I think. The Justice Dept. won't be able to get very far down the road of investigating whether the leaks were illegal, before having to confront the issue of illegal wiretapping/monitoring. The proverbial genie just ain't going back into the bottle, now that he's out in the sunshine.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by BigTex on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:38:13 AM EST
    Anyone up for handicapping the elections in November? As the new year progreses, a bit before, but espically after the primaries, you will see the republicans trumpet the successes the economy is having. This will place the dems in a bad situation. It will be GOP emphasizing the good things that are happening in the country, and the dems emphasizing the bad. That's not a good situation for the party focusing on the negative. Guess is that the GOP does better than the current CW prediction.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:38:35 AM EST
    Every New Years since I was a kid, we hit the streets at midnight and bang pots and pans. Back then, almost every family on the block did it, but that tradition seems to have died out. Now people look at us like we are nuts. The biggest happening(s) this year to me were the natural disasters. Anytime you think you have a good read on things...BAM, mother nature shows you who is boss. Mother nature reminded me I'm just renting a little space on this earth, and that's what will stick with me the most from 2005. How about you Tex?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by The Heretik on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:42:36 AM EST
    Is it true? Is the real news today that today has been cancelled? I am always the last to know. What about tomorrow? Oy.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:46:03 AM EST
    kdog: Now people look at us like we are nuts. You are nuts. That's good. Keep doing it. The world needs lot's more of that kind of nuts! Me, I get together every New Years with "the boys". 3 very close friends with whom I shared an apartment with back in my twenties ('bout 400 years ago!). We're all old men now, but not grumpy!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:47:36 AM EST
    In regards to the Nov. elections...I think the Dems should stress the "are you better off than 2/4/6 years ago?" angle, like Clinton in '92. That way they point out the failures of the Repubs while keeping the message somewhat positive. Not that I'm listening to either party anymore...I'm voting against every incumbent regardless of party. The turn for the worse on the civil liberties front has convinced me not one of my representatives gives a rat's arse about freedom. I just hope some Green and Working Families party members make the ballot so I don't have to vote Repub. Or better yet, maybe the marujuana reform party dude who ran for governor last time will come out of the woodwork. I'll galdly vote for him again for any position:)

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by theologicus on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 11:49:58 AM EST
    Very important story in the WP today by Dana Priest. Groundbreaking. troubling, and above the fold on page one. On the CIA, secret prisons, burning the bodies of suspects killed during interrogations, and otherwise revealing a government run amok. "Everything is done in the name of self-defense, so they can do anything because nothing is forbidden in the war powers act," said one official who was briefed on the CIA's original cover program and who is skeptical of its legal underpinnings. "It's an amazing legal justification that allows them to do anything," said the official, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issues.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 12:02:47 PM EST
    JimakaPPJ, I'll have a Glenfiddich for you. You have a Glenlivet for me. Or the other way 'round.... Happy New Year!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 12:04:46 PM EST
    Gotta have my black-eyed peas. Back in my grandparents' day, they used to put a dime in the pot. Whoever got the dime had especially good luck for the coming year (provided they didn't accidentally swallow it.)

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 12:15:14 PM EST
    My mom's been divorced four times, my dad married three. The only tradition I remember is saying "We survived another year. Wait, which stepdad are we on now? And what's my dad's new girlfriend's name? Marcy? No, that was the last one. Please, someone, pass the butterschnapps." Handicap the elections? Sorry Tex, I think our electoral system is quite handicapped as it is. Rim-shot. Ignoring the disturbing insecurity of our voting process/equipment, I'd guess the Dems will pick up serious seats. The Repubs have been in power in ALL branches for a long time, and they don't have much to show for it. A war forged on the back of, if not lies, then a criminal lack of respect for the opinion of expert advisors in the military and out who foresaw the disaster we're in now; a bad economy for most Americans; stagnant employment statistics; party corruption of a serious nature...Jack Who-off? Abramoff? Sorry, couldn't resist. Between him, DeLay, Frist, the war, the economy, basically reality all around, I just can't see the party in power doing anything but losing. Then again, stranger things have happened. And with those Diebold machines... Hope your New Year is filled with blessings and love. Let's all try to be better, and thus make our nation better. Peace, my friends.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by MikeDitto on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 12:19:54 PM EST
    Personally in terms of congressional races, I think both parties would be better off abandoning the national platform, or at least not making that the central case for their election/re-election. Representatives are supposed to represent the people in their districts, and I think representatives should address the concerns of the people they represent. Senators are supposed to represent the state's interests. While some issues such as war and civil liberties are national in scope, they should be spoken about in local contexts. If a candidate is seen as just representing the national party platform, they are much more likely to be seen as just being partisan. And rightly so.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Dadler on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 12:26:02 PM EST
    MDitto, Yep, I agree. But then what would the national media have to cover? Local sewer issues as vital to the election? I fear they'd still try to stir the pot in the wrong direction, as the celebrity MSM is always prone to do first. But can't argue with the idea that these races should be about more than national platform POVs. I'd love it if they were about actual sentient human beings. Mannequins are closer to what we have now.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 12:57:48 PM EST
    My prediction.. Bears & Colts in the Superbowl... You heard it here first! Happy New Year to all!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Edger on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 12:58:25 PM EST
    Happy New Year, Jeralyn! With hopes for more awards for TalkLeft in '06, and who knows... maybe you'll see that 10M hits double over the next 12 months!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    I'd like to comment on a post dated June 2005 regarding "Former Felon Turns Scholar." You see, I did time in the 1970's in NYS. Finished my parole and was awarded a Certificate of Relief From Disability, graduated College, and went on to get an MSW from Forham Univeristiy. I held various level human service positions, then we relocated to Virginia in 2003. I have been unemployed since because of the laws here. My comment is really a question. What does "Department of Corrections" mean and if this is supossedly a Christian/Judeo society when does rehabiliation come to play? Or is that concept only for Sexually Deviant Politicians.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 01:06:40 PM EST
    One of the best New Years I experienced was in Antigua, Guatemala back in the late 80's. Everyone in the streets partying, and thousands of firecrackers going off from about 9pm to 3am. A real community celebration. Warm climates rock. Have a Happy everybody!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by desertswine on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 01:13:36 PM EST
    Dadler:
    The Egyptian police raided a Sudanese refugee camp in Cairo yesterday.
    Yes, maybe a couple dozen Sudanese refugees killed.
    GW Bush: 'And that great and proud nation of Egypt, which showed the way toward peace in the Middle East, can now show the way toward democracy in the Middle East.'
    Ah, the Arab Spring continues.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 01:42:58 PM EST
    Breaking: Chalabi commandeers Iraq's oil ministry. (via Josh Marshall)

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 01:44:37 PM EST
    Tired of the Christian Season, or NSA hanky-panky? Need to shed a few pounds? Consider a Bolivian Coca Cruise this winter!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 03:23:57 PM EST
    QIB - Black eyed peas .... don't forget the Hoppin John..

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 03:25:50 PM EST
    how about something on why this non nation will become just like Mexico and run by the mexican drug dealers, none of you would go any place like that would you? and yes i have a new year "traditions" one is to take a picture of bush and go to the bathroom! I will say no more!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 03:28:51 PM EST
    mac and edger - Like it or not, the legality of the issue has been decided. It is legal. Sorry about that.;-) Now, let's get those who are backstabbing our national security. BTW - "Merry" New Year.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 03:29:30 PM EST
    My only wish for this coming year is not to be beaten to death by the local police! or taken alive but the government and sent to gitmo, i love it so much. D-T-T-E-O-T-USA, I say to much.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 04:11:55 PM EST
    Dadler How sad. My parents are divorced but still live together. They are odd. I have always spent my new years making a party with my kids, now grandkids- New years- last year I managed to send my middle son to New York for New Years Eve, my dream, but one we both shared. Although now his portion of that dream didnt include dragging along mommy. Talk about national security. One of his friends had a coast guard shirt on. All three were ushered into the security area- a few feet from Powell- they stood there waving at the crowds for almost 2 hours until finally a female officer asked them for the ID' - Everyone inside security was nodding at them "Happy news year agent"- we have it on tape- it is the funniest-scariest thing ever. 3 california boys whooping it up right under all this security unchecked and one doesnt know whether to laugh or cry.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 05:46:32 PM EST
    mac and edger - Like it or not, the legality of the issue has been decided. It is legal.
    Jim, when did this happen? I wasn't aware of any senate hearings, court cases, etc... Where are you getting your information? I do find this very interesting :
    "The government has no legal right to pursue the whistleblower [or] whistleblowers who disclosed what's been publicly aired to date," Tom Devine, the legal director for the Government Accountability Project and a lawyer who represents whistleblowers, told FOXNews.com. Devine said at least two laws protect a potential leak source. One is a so-called anti-gag statute that prevents the government from spending money on a leak investigation unless it specifically warned the employee that its gag rules cannot trump good-government laws. The leak also could be legal if the Whistleblower Protection Act covers it, Devine said, as long as the leaker was not in the FBI, CIA or NSA, which aren't covered by the act. For instance, a civilian Pentagon employee who wanted to expose government wrongdoing would have free speech protections to expose abuses of power or illegal actions.
    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 06:49:06 PM EST
    Give it up mac, or better yet, keep spinning your wheels. And leaking classified information is entirely different than what the "excuse du jour" now being offerred is. Uh, let me see....I'll just give away top secret national defense information because.... I don't like it and I'm a whistle blower? HAHAHAHAHAHA! (Sorry, juvenile, I know. But after all, it is the season to be jolly!) BTW - Latest poll figures show 64% agreeing with the Presidents actions. That includes 51% of Democrats. Legal and liked! A two'fer. Hodo - Put your money were your mouth is. If the actions are ruled illegal, I'll donate $50.00 to Talk Left. If not, you donate $50.00. As they say in Vegas, big boy, money talks and bull sh*t walks. Got a good pair of shoes?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimcee on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 07:05:16 PM EST
    As for a New Year's thing, I'll hope for lucidity for some corresponents to this site, including myself. I'll also hope that the opposition party will stop thier 'Deanward' spiral and realise that most people aren't quite so nutty. I also hope that the US will have less of a presence in Iraq and that country will be better off. No matter what it has to be better to know that Saddam's sons won't come and steal one's daughter to rape and murder her on her wedding day. Not to say that some terrorist sympathisers might argue other wise.... I wish all the best of the New Year excepting those that kill in the name of God. Peace to all and a best new year. Best to all, Jim Commerford

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 08:21:41 PM EST
    BB...I'm on the Bears bandwagon bigtime. Love that defense, and Grossman might give 'em enough. And as much as my Jet green blood boils to say it, my gut says the Colts won't beat New England. jimcee..peace to you too brother, as I hope the dominant party will stop their Bush/Cheney/Roveward spiral and more people realize their way is quite nutty. And I hope to continue to learn from our gracious host, posters, and commentors. Thanks for the education, thought, and questioning.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 09:31:55 PM EST
    Give it up mac, or better yet, keep spinning your wheels.
    Jim, I am not spinning my wheels. I merely stated, as fact I might add, that no congressional hearings or court cases have occurred regarding this incident. So your statement that this is legal is the real bullsh*t.
    Uh, let me see....I'll just give away top secret national defense information because.... I don't like it and I'm a whistle blower?
    I never stated that anyone was hiding behind whistleblower laws. I merely pointed out a news article explaining how someone may be immune from government prosecution due to whistleblower laws. In fact, the Foxnews article didn’t mention anyone in particular attempting to hide behind whistleblower laws. Here you claim it is legal:
    Legal and liked! A two'fer.
    Then, in your very next sentence you state:
    If the actions are ruled illegal, I'll donate $50.00 to Talk Left. If not, you donate $50.00.
    Who is spinning what?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 08:39:21 AM EST
    Mac - No, It wasn't an open ended offer. Did you read it? It was an offer for a wager with charliedon'tsurf12, who I have named Hodo in honor of this wonderful writings, and his use of the jewish word "shmendrik." I figure one insult deserves another.
    Hodo - Put your money were your mouth is. If the actions are ruled illegal, I'll donate $50.00 to Talk Left. If not, you donate $50.00.
    BTW - You are wrong. Congress did pass FISA and "Congress" did write the Constitution giving certain powers to the President. Now I realize that this is only supposed to apply when a Demo is President, but in the real world it works 24/7/365. The administration and many others claim that the acts are legal. The Left claim that Bush is spying on the American people which is a lie. Based on a variety of factors it is my opinion that it won't be found illegal by the courts. I made Hodo an offer. We'll see if he wants to wager, or walk.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 08:56:49 AM EST
    its legal because our propagandist-in-chief says so. ROTFLMAO

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:17:02 AM EST
    Mac - No, It wasn't an open ended offer. Did you read it?
    Yes, I read it. And I didn't respond to your offer, I asked why you claimed that the Bush administration bypassing FISA warrants was legal in one sentence and in the very next sentence questioned the legality by acknowledging that no ruling has occurred on this subject.
    BTW - You are wrong. Congress did pass FISA and "Congress" did write the Constitution giving certain powers to the President.
    No, I am not wrong. I am not arguing the validity of FISA. Bush admitted to bypassing FISA warrants. The question is and remains, is it legal for him to do this.
    Based on a variety of factors it is my opinion that it won't be found illegal by the courts.
    So there hasn't been a ruling yet. I am glad that has been established.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:33:04 AM EST
    Macromaniac: Bush admitted to bypassing FISA warrants. The question is and remains, is it legal for him to do this.
    Attorney General Alberto Gonzales states specifically that the wiretaps would be illegal under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which makes sense considering that FISA established a secret court specfically for the purpose of issuing warrants for wiretapping Americans. The President chose instead to circumvent that court and allow the wiretaps without any judicial oversight at all. Gonzales claims that he has the authority to do so under the 2001 bill authorizing the use of force against Afghanistan and more ephemerally because of his "inherent powers," whatever that means. More...


    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:40:45 AM EST
    This is a good example of where wiretapping can lead you: Link

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by BigTex on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 02:29:06 PM EST
    Kdog - when I was little my neighbors owned a fireworks stand, we were poster children for improper fireworks use. A dangerous tradition, but a fun one. As for as when I grew up, I do not have any traditions. I spent several new years eves alone, as I will be doing this year. Biggest story would be the opening of two Supreme Court positions. People talk about Iraq and the hurricanes, but the damage done will have run it's courst long before CJ Roberts and whoever replaces J O'Connor retire from the bench, and their decisions will long survive their tenure.

    Friday Open Thread | 39 comments (39 topical)