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Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons

by TChris

More details are available today regarding torture at the Iraqi Interior Ministry’s detention centers. Yesterday’s disclosure of the torture is discussed here.

Prisoners had their bones broken and their fingernails pulled out, were subjected to electric shocks and had burning cigarettes crushed into their necks and backs, said the Iraqi official. A 13th detainee there was starved to "bones and skin," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of retribution.

More than 120 prisoners in two detention centers have been abused or tortured, according to U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad.

The discoveries have fueled accusations by Iraq's Sunni Muslim minority that Iraq's new Shiite-dominated Interior Ministry forces have engaged in kidnappings, killings, torture and unwarranted detentions.

After last month’s revelations of torture in Iraqi prisons, Interior Minister Bayan Jabr claimed the reports were exaggerated. Not so.

The latest cases of abuse appeared more severe than those of beaten, emaciated prisoners found in the basement of another Baghdad Interior Ministry facility last month.

Iraq’s Interior Ministry will continue to deny that torture is widespread, but there are more than a thousand prisons in Iraq, and evidence to date suggests that torture is widespread.

In Baghdad, Saleh Mutlak, a Sunni politician, said Monday that torture was common in Iraq's prisons. "The problem is that people think this is the only one, that it's a surprise thing for the government," he said. "Any prison now in Iraq you will find the same."

Those who are being tortured are unlikely to agree that life in Iraq is any better now than it was under Saddam Hussein, President Bush’s assurances to the contrary notwithstanding.

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    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#1)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    This is not surprising to those who have tried to keep up on what's going on. The Interior ministry has been enlisting members of the Badr Corps as their security/police people. The Badr corps is backed by the relgious Shia groups and according to reports some members have been trained in Iran. Other reports have detailed the revenge killings of Sunnis by members of the Badr Corps working for the Interior ministry. The motivation for disclosing these findings by the US is most likely to try and discredit the religious Shia ticket running in Thursday's election in hopes that people will vote for other, more US friendly, cadidates. BTW an excellent article on whether the fighting in Iraq between Shias and Sunnis can be considered a civil war is here

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#2)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    Tchris, it would be safe to say you've never had a headline "American gets his head sawed off by insurgents?" Probably not. I'm against the war blah,blah,blah... This is like reporting the abuse Nazi sympathizers were exposed to in post-war France. What is the point? So we have vigilantes in our midst in Iraq? Who didn't see that coming? The real Q is why the NY Times and WP, along with the rest of the national media humped this war from the beginning? If you're looking for a story tackle that one.

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    Sure glad we showed up.
    U.S. troops raided the secret Jadriya facility in mid-November and found 166 prisoners, many emaciated and bearing obvious signs of torture
    .

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    Sure glad we showed up for what? We set the example for them. Now we come in claiming to be knights. Pure, unadulterated bullsh*t. Same way we support Saddam all those years, then to "remedy" it we send the nation into even more bloodshed, and expect to be respected for it. Brilliant.

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#5)
    by owenz on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    It's interesting reading and listening to the fluxuations of the pro-torture right. It gets confusing, but as things currently stand, torture seems to be defined as follows: 1. Bad Torture - torturing your own citizens. This is what separates U.S. torture policies from China's for most rightwingers. Even if we use harsher techniques abroad than China does domestically (see: waterboarding), at least no Americans are being systematically tortured at this point. Um, as far as we know. 2. "It's Not Torture" Torture - this most common justification for the techniques used by the CIA and army in Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, and assorted secret prisons around the world. Rightwingers rely on this rationale to defend U.S. torture policies while decrying the idea of "torture." It's a neat trick, especially when they refuse to read the official government reports describing America's interrogation techniques. Personified by the President's firm stance: "We do not torture." 3. "They Promised They Wouldn't" Torture - Useful in the case of extraordinary rendition, when the U.S. gets a signed pledge from Jordan or Egypt not to torture the suspects America supplies for interrogation. Note that's it not important whether or not everyone on the planet knows the prisoners will be tortured. What's important is whether the U.S. is guilty of torture from a technical, legalistic perspective. Depends heavily on the lack of transparency in US-friendly dictatorship. Ironic, since it includes "Axis of Evil" junior member Syria, which does lots and lots of bad things...except torture U.S. prisoners, apparently. 4. Good Torture - This is quickly becoming the darling of the right. Good torture is the kind that "organically" evolves among Iraqi police and security forces who are "getting tough" with insurgents. It's based on the successful El Salvadoorian approach of the 1980's, whereby domestic security forces crack down on the opposition by "any means necessary" as the U.S. washes its hands of any involvement. Different from #3 because the U.S. is not actually handing the prisoners over - the security forces (i.e. Death Squads) are grabbing the suspects themselves. Involves cute euphemisms like "vigilantes."

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#6)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    I resemble and resent the "right winger" label being used against the US torture policy during our current "war on terror." To bring out an old cliche, "the first casualty of war is truth." To believe that right wingers are the only people responsible for these crimes (whether in this country or anywhere else) is funny to say the least. American policy abroad has little to do with rightists or leftists. Capitalism and a fear of communism, along with strategic interests, that's what it's all about.

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#7)
    by owenz on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    I resemble and resent the "right winger" label being used against the US torture policy during our current "war on terror."
    My post didn't say American "right wingers" were responsible for torture, necessarily. Merely that they defend and justify its use. As for this:
    American policy abroad has little to do with rightists or leftists. Capitalism and a fear of communism, along with strategic interests, that's what it's all about.
    Care to flesh this out a bit? You're about two steps away from blaming the whole thing on "human nature."

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    Dadler - The example we set was that when military people get out of control we investigate, charge, try, convict and put in prison. Gesh.

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#9)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    Jim, Considering the large number of charges and discoveries, how many abusers are in prison right now as a result of the prosecution of abuses? I count Graner and England. Who am I missing?

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#10)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:59 PM EST
    Owenz, I'm not two steps away from "human nature" I'm on it. We don't have enough space to discuss it but isn't that what it's all about? The bad side of human nature; greed,envy...all that good stuff.

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:59 PM EST
    The US has always known about this prison, but now they are shocked, SHOCKED I tell you ... Why would the iraqis think they would be prosecuted for these techniques when very few US personnel (who have tortured, raped and killed prisoners) aren't prosecuted? BTW, anyone know how many officers and/or politicians are serving time for this abuse considering the 'geneva convention is quaint' and 'harsh interrogation techniques' were approved from the top.

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:59 PM EST
    Jim, We continue to engage in kidnappings, rendition, secret prisons, torture. I just don't see how you can turn your head away from the obvious. I understand the reactionary need to believe what WE do is pure, and justified, and somehow not as evil, but that need doesn't correspond to reality.

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:59 PM EST
    Dadler - We are the good guys. Try to remember that.

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#14)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:59 PM EST
    good is as good does.

    Re: Torture Confirmed in Additional Iraqi Prisons (none / 0) (#15)
    by owenz on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:07:01 PM EST
    Owenz, I'm not two steps away from "human nature" I'm on it. We don't have enough space to discuss it but isn't that what it's all about? The bad side of human nature; greed,envy...all that good stuff.
    This reminds me of the roommate I had in college who justified all his bad behavior by saying: "Look, I'm an a*hole. I'm not going to deny it. But I can't change the way I am. So just try to get used to it." He was right. He was an a*hole. But the fact that he was right didn't make his justification any more useful to me. You sound a lot like him. It's moral relativism to the Nth degree and it's completely useless in a debate over right and wrong. Your argument boils down to: people are inheritantly evil so we shouldn't be surprised they torture, therefore let's stop worrying about torture. It doesn't even dignify a response on the merits since there are no merits.

    Hey it looks like we taught them well. Can we leave now?