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Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 11:50:52 PM EST
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A few weeks ago we reported on an Iraqi jail operated by the Iraq Interior Ministry in which torture had occurred. The Washington Post has learned of a second such jail.

An Iraqi government search of a detention center in Baghdad operated by Interior Ministry special commandos found 13 prisoners who had suffered abuse serious enough to require medical treatment, U.S. and Iraqi officials said Sunday night.

An Iraqi official with firsthand knowledge of the search said that at least 12 of the 13 prisoners had been subjected to "severe torture," including sessions of electric shock and episodes that left them with broken bones. "Two of them showed me their nails, and they were gone," the official said on condition of anonymity because of security concerns.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

The abuse alleged at the prison found this week appeared to have been more severe. Asked specifically what types of torture were found in the commandos' prison, the official cited breaking of bones, torture with electric shock, extraction of fingernails and cigarette burns to the neck and back.

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    Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail | 40 comments (40 topical)
    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:53 PM EST
    All together now...let's sing the wingnut/Bush mantra when it comes to this issue: Lie Deny Ignore Lie some more (repeat)

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:53 PM EST
    Oh God so what? torture, murder, all of it, "you can find right here in the land of freedom". hey people do you know what this low life government is about to do next? and as far as the so called torture in some so called country like iraq, hey its normal way of life in that part of the world, you won't find 2 or 6 or 50 jails and prisons that have mass torture, "all will have mass murder and torture", and soon it will be normal place here and that is what its all about keeping people in line. so have fun in the third world ideals of what freedom is.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#3)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:53 PM EST
    The abuse alleged at the prison found this week appeared to have been more severe. Asked specifically what types of torture were found in the commandos' prison, the official cited breaking of bones, torture with electric shock, extraction of fingernails and cigarette burns to the neck and back.
    Surely all self-inflicted, right, PPJ?

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    You mean that under the old regime, American troops found the abuses and put a stop to them? Oh, that kind of ruins your whole point, doesn't it....

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#5)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Under the old regime, the US came in stopped them, then did it themselves. Sort of ruins your point dont you think.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Ernue, SD, Scar - Under the old regime this would have never been found, never reported and never stopped. You do understand that is a very, very, very big difference, don't you? Oh, you don't? Oh well. Figures.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#7)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Jim, The crimes of the old regime were reported extensively in the west, while Saddam was still in power. Your only remaining point is that Saddam did not stop when caught. The remaining question is: will it stop now that we are there? Still an open question

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#8)
    by Punchy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    What happens when we leave? If we're not there to uncover this stuff, how bad will it get once we bail? Torture rooms with Saddam, torture rooms without him. Once again...why are we there?

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#9)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Ernue, SD, Scar - Under the old regime this would have never been found, never reported and never stopped. You do understand that is a very, very, very big difference, don't you?
    'Close' only counts in horseshoes and grenades. You know full well that actual Iraqis are going to be even less understanding when we try to explain to them that even though we're running the same torture chambers Saddam did and we're ripping out the same fingernails... it's Freedom now, y'see. Oh, and they're the ones whose opinions matter.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#10)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    There is a *huge* difference. We want to call it something else and make it legal. That way we can lie with a clean conscience.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    You didn't hear a peep from the left about the human rights abuses that were committed under Saddam's regime, but now that a more right wing regime is in control you'll never hear the end of them.......ohhh how typical.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Variable, If the mainstream media is mostly left leaning, and they reported on torture under Saddam's rule (this wasn't a Fox News exclusive), then they made a little more than a peep.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#13)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    "You didn't hear a peep from the left about the human rights abuses that were committed under Saddam's regime," I can't figure out such statements aare made from ignorance or stupidity. The ONLY way you hear of human rights abuses anywhere is because of the left. The US and rummy specifically supported SH's regime, just like the US supported the Shah in iran and the cia trained the shah's secret police how to torture more effectively. Only 'liberal', 'leftwing' NGOs (you know, the same ones complaining now about abuses around the globe), ever bothered to investigate and publicize human rights abuses.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#14)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    You didn't hear a peep from the left about the human rights abuses that were committed under Saddam's regime, but now that a more right wing regime is in control you'll never hear the end of them.......ohhh how typical.
    first this is the usual empty BS. 2nd - we gave Saddam the gas that he used on his own people and the Reagan Administration didn't care. I think almost everyonme has seen the picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam. The real point here that as long as you play economic ball and/or serve a geopolitical purpose you can do pretty much as you please. I feel this has been pretty much true no matter which party is in the white house. Thus, the relative silence of the Dem leaders on Iraq.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#15)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    You didn't hear a peep from the left about the human rights abuses that were committed under Saddam's regime, but now that a more right wing regime is in control you'll never hear the end of them.......ohhh how typical.
    Umm, yes. Shouldn't we have higher expectations now?

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#16)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    In fact, let me make an analogy. If your toilet leaks, and a plumber comes in and charges you $1000 and says it's fixed, and it still leaks... wouldn't you be angry? And if the plumber's only defense was "Hey, you didn't complain when it leaked before" wouldn't you be really angry and strongly suspect this man to be just a con artist?

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#17)
    by Slado on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Great anology but doesn't apply. Under old regime 10's of thousands were murdered, raped and incarcerated. Uder new regime we have a few instances of abuse that are being corrected. Just in sheer numbers this is like saying because one toilet out of 100 doesn't workt hat it's just as bad as it was when none of them worked. The moral equivalency game is a standard mode of operation for the left. Compare two things to be the same so you can take pot shots at the new thing. This allows the arguer to sit atop the moral high ground while ignoring the baselessnes of said claim. See Hitler to US Military, See Stalin to Abu Grahib etc... There are huge differences in Iraq now to what they were. When they find 1000's of mass graves then I'll listen to you but right now you only show that you are against the current war and will use any excuse to lay out your tired arguments. victory!

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#18)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Slado, On WHAT are you basing your generalizations about the current "regime" in Iraq? On hard data, or on your own hopeful paradigms. Simply accusing the other side of being "against" something regardless of facts, logic, what have you, is not a sound rhetorical strategy. It reads like squirming out of tough questions.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#19)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Slado is obviously drunk on kool aid. It is actully people like PPJ and Slado who play the moral games, especially moral relativism, i.e. We are not as bad as them means everything is ok. Then all you have to do is ignore all the accounts of the ethnic killings by the militas, the toture, the 10's of thousands of innocent civilians killed by the US, the use of illegal weapns by the US and everything is just fine. Morally bankrupt.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#20)
    by Slado on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    I don't know any hard numbers but for the sake of argument are YOU saying that the current government or US led coalition is murdering thousands of people ad hoc, raping and murdering women and children and commiting atrocities at the level and sustained volume that Saddam commited? Sure there have been problems and misteps but nothing compared to what Saddam and his cronies were up to. To answer your question I don't have hard numbers but I don't know how many mass graves the U.S. government has dug in the U.S. either. Maybe their just as bad?

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#21)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    I am saying "they did it worse" is no excuse. Your mother must have let you get away with quite a lot if she never taught you that. Wrong is wrong, and no, it is not being corrected. In fact, in our case, we want to legalize torture. YOU just want to sit back and allow the camel to come in the tent and sit in your lap and say "hey, at least its not the whole herd Sadam had"

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#22)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    PPJ has be replaced at least temporarily by Slado as the King of Moral Relativism

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#23)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Slado, We have unleashed a definite and deadly CHAOS in Irq, replacing the definite and deadly ORDER of Saddam's dictatorship. I don't understand how you can you fail to see this? All the factions held down by Hussein's evil fist are now preying on each other in a war zone, because WE decided it was better to start a war than to use our imaginations. Our powers of the bully pulpit. Which we have now sacrificed on the alter of Abu Ghraib, Fallujah, cluster bombs, etc., etc., etc...

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#24)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Jesus, I mean, at least with a bit of hindsight, can this administration not see how Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, and their acceptance of abuse/torture, set a clear example to the new "regime" that it's okay to torture the "right" bad guys. It should be crystal clear to us that we should've said loudly and clearly NOTHING like torture will even be marginally tolerated. THAT would've sent the right message, and most likely make the Iraqis less willing to fall back on the methods of Saddamm. Just a hunch.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#25)
    by Slado on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    In the infamous words of Ron Burgandy...agree to disagree Honestly I think now and definately in the long term Iraqi's are better off. Sue me. But to your point we are trading two sets of bad circumstance that we wouldn't want. One an evil dictator that establishes order through secret police etc... Two a new imperfect democratic government, terrorist killing civilians, other bad war stuff and some chaos in hopes that things will get better. That's the real choice. Some would say one is better then the other but saying their both just as bad seems a little silly to me. when in rome

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#26)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    "Honestly I think now and definately in the long term Iraqi's are better off." So what? That wasn't the reason bushco gave for going to war. They've lied and continue to lie about everything to do with the war. hey, n korea has nukes, iran may be developing them, china has a terrible human rights record, somalia, niger, singapore ... etc, etc, etc. 2000+ americans killed, 30,000+ iraqi civilians killed and 2/3 want us out.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:55 PM EST
    Roger writes:
    The crimes of the old regime were reported extensively in the west, while Saddam was still in power.
    Well, they were not reported on CNN. And I sure don't remember a big deal being made out of it. Let's face it. The Left just wants something to complain about. There'll be a new issue tomorrow. sailor writes:
    So what? That wasn't the reason bushco gave for going to war. They've lied and continue to lie about everything to do with the war.
    So do you believe Saddam should be in power? Tell us. Who would have gotten rid of him if we had not? I mean forget about the "reason." Look at the result. dadler - I don't think we had to do anything. Saddam had already done so. And now we are saying it is wrong. Bid difference, don't ya know? Jen writes:
    In fact, in our case, we want to legalize torture.
    Show me a link please. And no, I know of no one saying this should happen. Show me a link please. Somehow I doubt you will. BHAW SD - Let's have a link on the gas claim. BHAW. scar - I'd have fixed the leak myself. And if I couldn't and needed it done, I'd have paid the money and shut up, assuming I couldn't find a cheaper plumber. Of course I can work with my hands and have a good set of tools. Sailor writes:
    The US and rummy specifically supported SH's regime, just like the US supported the Shah in iran and the cia trained the shah's secret police how to torture more effectively.
    OK, we have repented of our sins and are now trying to establish a democracy. Now, since you claim that is important to you, why aren't you supporting the effort?? BHAW. scar - Again. The difference is we try to not have such acts. Excuse me, Got to go fix a leak.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#28)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:55 PM EST
    Jimakappj Where the hell have you been??????? Crack a newspaper sometime. Its been all over it ever since this chappie called "McCain" put in some 'ammendment' (http://mccain.senate.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=NewsCenter.ViewPressRelease&Content_id=1611) our Vice President (fella by the name of Dick Cheney in case you haven't been following the news) doesnt like http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/22/AR2005072201727.html Merda, e sempre estao perguntando porque a ezquerda nuqua disse nada antes... sheesh

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#29)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:55 PM EST
    Links, you dont read links - check the archives, I'm tired of supplying them to you 3 and 4 times only having you ask for them again 3 months later.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:55 PM EST
    Jen you wrote:
    Wrong is wrong, and no, it is not being corrected. In fact, in our case, we want to legalize torture.
    Now, your contention is that the McCain amendment wants to legalize torture? Or that anyone who opposes it does? Pardon me while I laugh. BTW - Since you like foreign language quotes, let me lay a southern one on you. "Darling, I declare, that is so dumb even the Yankee family down the road wouldn't believe it." SD - Let me undersatnd. You supposedly provided a link months ago and I am supposed to keep it? Since it is your comment, why didn't you keep it? SD, another Southern quote: "That dog won't hunt. Hell, he won't even get off the porch."

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#31)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:56 PM EST
    fill in the blank quick quiz If something is not illegal it is _____ Senator McCain wants to make torture illegal Vice President Cheney doesn't like it. If you can't connect the dots don't look at me, I aint explaining it to you. Quit callin me a yankee, yanqui. I'm from a hell of a lot further south than you are.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#32)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:56 PM EST
    ppj does nothing but erect strawmen, put words in people's mouths and misrepresent facts. Why do you all fall for it every time? Sheesh, it's getting hard to tell who's the roadrunner and who's the coyote! Oh, BTW, ppj, stand on this big X.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#33)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:56 PM EST
    SD - Let me undersatnd. You supposedly provided a link months ago and I am supposed to keep it? Since it is your comment, why didn't you keep it?
    You didn't read it the first, 2nd or 3rd time why should I spend time giving it to you again. You want it google. I'm not your secretary. I've provided hundreds of links.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#34)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:56 PM EST
    Sailor - good point

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#35)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:56 PM EST
    Sailor, you're right, of course.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:56 PM EST
    Jen - Yankee is as Yankee does. ;-) There are many things that are neither. Your argument is based on the definition of abuse and torture. I, for example, don't think having a female guard of moslem prisoners to be either one. Sailor - I can always count on you helping SD try to dodge the question. BTW - Your inviation is respectfully declined. SD - Hey, you don't have to provide links. Just make all the unsupported claims you like. And that is what they will be.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:57 PM EST
    People get tortured in police stations and prisons throughout the whole USA. Yet we are supposed to believe we invaded a country thousands of miles away to stop itorture and spread "fredom"? Or to look for fictitious weapons? I swear, it's a game to these people. I can picture the whole lot of them sipping the finest scotch laughing their ass off and cashing the checks. Freedom? In the halls of power...freedom only has enemies.

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#38)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:57 PM EST
    PPJ ROTFLMAO pathetic truly pathetic

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#39)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:57 PM EST
    Hey, LOOK OVER HERE, a way to win the war on terror!

    Re: Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail (none / 0) (#40)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    scar - Again. The difference is we try to not have such acts.
    I see very little evidence of this, sadly. Abu Ghraib was a long time ago. We've had plenty of time to get our act together. You fool me, I can't be fooled again.

    Torture Found at Second Iraqi Jail | 40 comments (40 topical)