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NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional

by Last Night in Little Rock

The NY Times reports this afternoon that NYC police searches of bags in subways are constitutional under the Fourth Amendment as a deterrent to terrorists.

A federal judge ruled today that random police searches of bags and backpacks in the New York subways are constitutional, finding that they are effective in helping to deter a terrorist attack.

Rejecting a challenge to the searches by the New York Civil Liberties Union, Judge Richard M. Berman of Federal District Court in Manhattan decided that "governmental interest in preventing a terrorist bombing of New York City's subway system is vitally important." He concluded that the invasion of passengers' privacy was minimal enough to be justified by the deterrent effect of the searches on potential terrorists.

...

The ruling upheld a program of searches that New York police started in the subways on July 22, soon after terrorist bombings in the subways in London. Based on a random selection process, police set up checkpoints at entrances to a subway station and then search passengers' bags at randomly selected intervals - every fifth passenger, for example. Passengers can refuse to open their bags, but they may not enter the subway with a bag they did not allow police to search.

The civil liberties group argued that the searches were too infrequent and haphazard to be effective and so did not justify the privacy invasion of searching passengers without specific cause.

Judge Berman said his ruling, after a three-day bench trial, was based mainly on his assessment of the credibility of the witnesses for both sides, a contest decisively won, in his view, by the city.

"Because the threat of terrorism is great and the consequences of unpreparedness may be catastrophic, it would seem foolish not to rely upon those qualified persons in the best position to know," the judge wrote.

So, searches for deterrence of terrorists are now constitutional. Outside of this limited context, I submit that this holding has little force.

[cross posted on www.FourthAmendment.com]

Update: (TL) Don't forget to get your TalkLeft Fourth Amendment subway tote here.

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    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#1)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    OK, so the government can search people in a public space, and deny them use of that public space if they refuse, without individual suspicion. Does the 4th Amendment mean anything whatsoever outside private property now?

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Not the way I read the constitution. Cowards afraid to live free.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#3)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    I forgot to mention the lack of any specific threat. Just the possibility of an attack, and the fact that such an attack would be a bad thing. Which is true for any public place. The government just got a broad new power, and it will be exercised in whatever way will get the politicians votes or money. And expanded when we've gotten used to it as is. Presumably the next step is to make the searches non-optional, so if you're tagged for a search you can't just leave. This fits the court's reasoning since it would A) make the policy more effective, and B) not be any less convenient since potential passengers could just not enter the subway terminal. It's not all that far down the slippery slope.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Unconstitutional and completely pointless. Unless you search every single bag and every single person, which would be more unconstitutional, there's no way to make this even marginally effective, aside from the "illusion of security" aspect.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Berman's ruling allows "random police searches of bags and backpacks". Unless I missed something it says nothing about body searches. If the justification for this is to stop "terrorists" I fail to see how this would have any effect whatsoever on bodypacked bombs. This is a joke. I see absolutely no purpose to this other than another incremental nibble at rights and freedoms.
    How do you erect the infrastructure of a police state? You incrementally condition both the police and the public that relinquishing liberty in the name of security is necessary because 'we live in dangerous times.' Be sure to make Grandpa remove his shoes at the airport but let that cargo through without inspection every time. The truth is that the mythical 'war on terror' was never meant to be won and can never be won because it doesn't exist. The real terror is being waged against ordinary people by our own government."


    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#6)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Berman's ruling allows "random police searches of bags and backpacks". Unless I missed something it says nothing about body searches.
    Based on this layman's reading of the synopsis of the legal reasoning, it would encompass more invasive searches. Searchees would still be able to decline a pat-down or x-ray or whatever and leave, so it would still be only a minimal invasion of privacy.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Good point, Roy. Is there a lawyer in the house? :)

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    How many millions ride the NY subways everyday. How long would it take to search the bags and backpacks, and/or "pat down" every fifth, tenth, twentieth, or even Nth rider. What economic effect?

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#9)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    What economic effect?
    Don't forget the effect of people who have to take a less convenient method of transportation because they don't want to take crap from the cops, or they have something they can't allow to be searched.

    Now cops can see a guy who looks like a drug dealer, and search his bag in order to deter terrorism. Cool.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Ummm, it's been so long, but is that snark I'm smelling? Ahh, the gold old days;-)

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimcee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    If some fat cop wants to search my lugguage thats OK by me. The odds that is going to happen to me is probably zero being a down-a-pint white guy. A slight sniff of my baggage is easy as long as I can get on the train in a timely manner. If you think your rights are offended then you are responsible for that next public transit explosion. Funny thing is I used to agree with you but I grew up and traveled a lot.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#13)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    You have to admit, out oif all the snarky pots, jimcee's was the winner!

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimcee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Hey, Sailor, I try my best to be honest. Snarky? Sure. Honest? Yeah.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#15)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    The odds that is going to happen to me is probably zero being a down-a-pint white guy.
    Of course its ok to search someone else as long as Jimcee is not delayed. Figures!

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#16)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Can we admit this is all protection against the scourge of this country? You know the guys who made it the trains fault if you jump in front of it? That's it, sorry ambulance chasers and Merry Christmas.

    Is there any serious distinction between a search when you are entering a train, and a search when you are entering an airplane? I assume you guys all find searches at airports intrusive and unconstitutional as well. I would focus your criticism on the fact that searching such a small percentage of passengers isn't likely to be effective, rather than the constitutionality. BTW, when Mr. Scalito assumes his office the Fourth Amendment will no longer be operative anyway. Just so you know!

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    Roy wrote:
    OK, so the government can search people in a public space, and deny them use of that public space if they refuse, without individual suspicion. Does the 4th Amendment mean anything whatsoever outside private property now?
    et al - Where were you guys when they started searching people boarding airplanes... let me see...about 30 years ago?

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#19)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    I would focus your criticism on the fact that searching such a small percentage of passengers isn't likely to be effective, rather than the constitutionality. A bit of outrage over both seem reasonable? Any claim of it being effective is simply a deflection from its unconstitutionality and incrementally nibbling nature, and making the claim of effectiveness to deflect attention from the "death by a thousand cuts" of freedom is a gross insult to intelligence as well.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#20)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    et al - Where were you guys when they started searching people boarding airplanes... let me see...about 30 years ago?
    I like to think the gleam in my father's eye was checking the Constitution for caveats. And if airport security checks are the precedent for subway checks, what will be going on in 30 years for which subway checks are the "we've been doing this sort of thing for years" argument-quasher?

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    what will be going on in 30 years? You've nailed it, Roy. Give up a bit of freedom in exchange for the illusion of security, today... and a bit tomorrow... and a bit tomorrow... and a bit tomorrow... and a bit tomorrow... and a bit tomorrow... and a bit tomorrow...

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    roy - That wasn't meant to be a "quasher," but a reminder that it was deemed reasonable then, so now we have this. Problem is, the screening procedure was not done properly, so 25 years later we had no real security, and even worse, incorrect procedures on how to react inside the aircraft. I trust you will agree that if the crew and passengers had acted immediately to attack the hijackers they could have prevented them from taking control. Perhaps even saved the aircaft. Instead the plan was to do nothing, and "talk" the hijackers out of killing. Wrong, eh? BTW - Nothing unusal in that. They don't talk. They kill.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#23)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    That wasn't meant to be a "quasher," but a reminder that it was deemed reasonable then, so now we have this.
    Sorry, sloppy word choice on my part. I just like how "quash" sounds in my head.
    Problem is, the screening procedure was not done properly, so 25 years later we had no real security...
    I'll concede that tight security at airports is a genuinely good idea. However, not everything which is a good idea is within the authority of the government. If we want the government to have some new power, we can amend the constitution. I find that approach more appealing than let politicians invent or creep toward new powers.
    I trust you will agree that if the crew and passengers had acted immediately to attack the hijackers they could have prevented them from taking control.
    Conceded. Does that failure have more to do with specific policies, or with a general problem of top-down government solutions? I don't really know the answer, but my knee-jerk favors the latter. Notice that the only 9/11 attack which failed, flight 93, failed because of individuals accepting responsibility, not because of any law.

    The judge "concluded that the invasion of passengers' privacy was minimal enough to be justified by the deterrent effect of the searches on potential terrorists." How are terrorists deterred by the system? The search is optional, so a terrorist who happens to be picked for a search just refuses and turns around and tries again later. There is no deterrent effect, so how can it counterbalance even a "minimal" invasion of privacy?

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#25)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    A tricky q, for sure ... just what does the word "reasonable" mean? A serious, snark-free, q in return then: if there were two subway systems in NY (or perhaps just alternating trains), imagine then that one system was subject to random searches and dog sniffs etc, and the other one wasn't. For sake of arg, presume the systems are equally convenient. Which would you choose? Which would you tell your children to choose? Which do you think most other people would choose?

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#26)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    I like the way you think ras. But lets look at it from the point of view not very popular in here. If BOTH subway systems had no "security searches" which is pointless IMO, you'd have nothing to choose about. But when the inevitable bomb goes off NYC will be inundated with personal injury lawyers like Oprah on a ham. Spenging hundreds of millions for a defense in a courtroom.

    Which would you choose?
    Since Ras used an implausible hypothetical, since no city could implement two subway systems that mirrored each other in every aspect except whether people were searched upon entry or not, you've opened the door to a host of other comparisons... Let's say that there was a wrinkle in time that allowed the pre-9/11 O’Hare Airport to travel through space-time, hover out to Schaumberg, and set itself in an empty field – bringing with it all of it’s staff, available flights, and security policies. Every person flying from Chicago would have two choices – one where they would be subjected to current Airport security standards and the other would be a pre-9/11 security standard (less invasive searches, far shorter security lines, leave your shoes on, etc.) Would the people flying from the post-9/11 O’Hare be mostly Conservatives? Would planes taking off from the pre-9/11 O’Hare begin falling from the sky left and right setting off a terrorist field-day across America? At what point do you think paranoid Conservatives would forego their ideological love for the destruction of our civil rights for their own short term conveniences? It's easy to forego worrying about wisdom and long term assurances of privacy to embrace a short term convenience. In your example, the only convenience is for government to show the public that something is being done to make them safe from things they have no real ability to control. Americans want to “feel secure” because the threat of terrorism has been pounded into their heads -- an overblown threat, yet one that could be reduced if America’s leaders were less brutal (in a variety of manners) to the rest of the world. Your writing, Ras, is an apology for the politics of fear. Planes weren't falling from the sky on a regular basis due to terrorist activity before 9/11 and they aren't doing so now either. Giving up passive freedoms that are of little immediate consequence allow the legal foundation for much larger abuses, which is something you knew, just chose not to acknowledge so as to intentionally marginalize the point.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#28)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    You've been a student too long. Conservatives are not the ones eroding our civil rights. Look at the war on faith(which is as real as you or me) the recent SC ruling on eminent domain, I see it coming from the left,not the right. "or prohibting the free exercise thereof." Fairly specific in my opinion.

    That's pretty laughable - war on faith. But this thread is about removing people's right to privacy - and while it has been a "bi-partisan" march to trash our civil liberties in that regard, it is a bi-partisan march made up of Conservatives - both Democrat and Republican.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#30)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    Sorry I digressed but Laugh all you want. The truth. Are you coming from a gay rights stance? If you are you're probably aware of the campaign against Christianity by these folks. Another truth. If you're not you've got a crosseyed view of the reality.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#31)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    As a Christian I say there is no war on faith. one is allowed to believe what ever they want and practice their faith. Certain christians want to impose their views on everyone. War on faith, makes about as much sense as the war on Christmas. None.

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#32)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    some perspective,
    In the 29 OECD countries for which comparable data were available, the annual average death rate from road injury was approximately 390 times that from international terrorism. The ratio of annual road to international terrorism deaths (averaged over 10 years) was lowest for the United States at 142 times. In 2001, road crash deaths in the US were equal to those from a September 11 attack every 26 days.
    Link and for this we are giving up some of our liberties. Fear is an awesome tool for the government to use

    Re: NYC Subway Bag Searches Ruled Constitutional (none / 0) (#33)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    We are going to have to agree to disagree brother. Maybe you'll see it someday. It took me a long time.

    I'm with Soc, although this is a bait and switch to hijack the thread.