home

Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details

ABC News has a must-read new report on torture techniques being used on detainees at overseas detention centers. The information comes from current and former CIA officers and supervisors who believe the public should know "the direction" the Agency has taken.

Portions of their accounts are corrobrated by public statements of former CIA officers and by reports recently published that cite a classified CIA Inspector General's report.

Among the tecniques used:

1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.

2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.

3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.

4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.

5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept ear 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.

6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

Let's take waterboarding:

According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.

"The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that torture leads to questionable confessions. In the case of the detainees, the U.S. may have taken action based upon the faulty information:

According to CIA sources, Ibn al Shaykh al Libbi, after two weeks of enhanced interrogation, made statements that were designed to tell the interrogators what they wanted to hear. Sources say Al Libbi had been subjected to each of the progressively harsher techniques in turn and finally broke after being water boarded and then left to stand naked in his cold cell overnight where he was doused with cold water at regular intervals.

His statements became part of the basis for the Bush administration claims that Iraq trained al Qaeda members to use biochemical weapons. Sources tell ABC that it was later established that al Libbi had no knowledge of such training or weapons and fabricated the statements because he was terrified of further harsh treatment.

The CIA officers don't fault Libbi, they fault the torturing agents:

However, sources said, al Libbi does not appear to have sought to intentionally misinform investigators, as at least one account has stated. The distinction in this murky world is nonetheless an important one. Al Libbi sought to please his investigators, not lead them down a false path, two sources with firsthand knowledge of the statements said.

Where are they being held?

sources say, there are a very limited number of these locations in use at any time, and most often they consist of a secure building on an existing or former military base. In addition, they say, the prisoners usually are not scattered but travel together to these locations, so that information can be extracted from one and compared with others. Currently, it is believed that one or more former Soviet bloc air bases and military installations are the Eastern European location of the top suspects. Khalid Sheik Mohammed is among the suspects detained there, sources said.

Only agents specificially trained in the torture techniques are supposed to appply them. On one particular day, a newbe agent got the gritty job. It ended with the death of the detainee:

a young, untrained junior officer caused the death of one detainee at a mud fort dubbed the "salt pit" that is used as a prison. They say the death occurred when the prisoner was left to stand naked throughout the harsh Afghanistan night after being doused with cold water. He died, they say, of hypothermia.

His wasn't the only death:

According to the sources, a second CIA detainee died in Iraq and a third detainee died following harsh interrogation by Department of Defense personnel and contractors in Iraq. CIA sources said that in the DOD case, the interrogation was harsh, but did not involve the CIA.

Go read the whole thing, and then read how the Iraqi's are doing the same thing over there. It's like nothing has changed.

Finally, go read Arthur's analysis here.

< Bush Administration and Media Corruption | Fighting Crime the Old Fashioned Way >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#1)
    by Andreas on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    A reminder:
    From November 20, 1945, until October 1, 1946, the International Military Tribunal (IMT) convened in the principal courtroom for criminal cases (room No. 600) in the Nuremberg Palace of Justice. At the conferences in Moscow (1943), Teheran (1943), Jalta (1945) and Potsdam (1945), the Big Three powers (USA, USSR and Great Britain) had agreed to try and to punish those responsible for war-crimes.
    (from the website provided published by the court in Nuremberg) Further info: The Avalon Project at Yale Law School A Look Back At Nuremberg (Court TV)

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    This is it? No "Bridge at Andau" glass tubes up the urethra? No slivers under the fingernails? None of this stuff bothers me in the context of getting information from these guys. All of this stuff just puts them in temporary discomfort, the remedy for which is completely under their control. Their "right" to withhold information is abridged. I have no problem with that. What international law do mock executions violate? The fourth Geneva? Some case law from the Hague? Whatever it is, it would probably be best for the U.S. to explicitly withdraw from any convention or treaty that prohibits something like mock executions. They seem like useful tools that don't harm the prisoner but could be effective in eliciting informtion. We get nothing from agreeing to limitations on this. There is no quid pro quo from our enemies in the treatment of American prisoner. Geneva 4 is something we should explicity renounce, proposing a more realistic alternative (the treaty is just silly and outdated to begin with -- many copies are on the web for anyone who hasn't seen it yet). As for international criminal law ... didn't we already withdraw from that? The article talks about "confessions"--I assume they mean false confessions. False confessions are only useful if you plan a show trial or a video confession for PR purposes. Since the U.S. is doing neither, we have no motive for eliciting false confessions. If the U.S. authorities are stupid enough to believe that everything a prisoner says when undergoing this type of interrogation is true, then that, on the other hand, is a big problem. The interrogation should be tough enough to make prisoners want to do anything to stop it, but the information gained from the interrogation should be doublechecked in such a way that false information is caught. A confession that "we were planing bioterror attacks" means nothing. A good confession would be that "we had a 68-page bioterror textbook printed in blue ink with a drawing of a Florence flask on the cover" confirmed by passing the story by another prisoner but changing Florence to Erlenmeyer and being corrected by the prisoner. The problem here is not torture, but intelligently using the information gained from the interrogation. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water if information is not being correctly verified. The descripton of "water boarding" is not clear. They wrap celophane over their face and ... stop right there: wouldn't the prisoner suffocate from that alone? What's the point of the water? "Water poured over them": over their face? "Instant pleas to stop"? Made when their face is wrapped in celophane? The technique sounds really useful to me ... I think. Except I'm not sure what the hell it is. I wonder if the ABC reporter understood it. If so, why didn't the editor make him tighten up the description so it makes sense; if not, is it responsible to report it?

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#3)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    robertsq
    The article talks about "confessions"--I assume they mean false confessions. False confessions are only useful if you plan a show trial or a video confession for PR purposes. Since the U.S. is doing neither, we have no motive for eliciting false confessions.
    If we have no motive for eliciting false confessions then why are we eliciting false confessions? As former CIA officer Bob Baer notes, waterboarding is "bad interrogation. I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture's bad enough." I think you are correct that one of the primary purposes for these techniques is to produce false confessions. You may believe that this administraton will never abuse this power, but how do you know that some administration in the future will not do so?

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    Shoot, I use those techniques on my kids. I didn't know that was illegal!

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#5)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Its hard to argue in favor of any of these techniques. I'd say all of it is abusive and numbers 4 & 6 certainly qualify as torture, even if some think the others don't. John McCain is right, the administration is wrong. This is wrong, Un-American and will ultimately lead to suspects telling you whatever you want to hear regardless of the truth. Sleep deprivation techniques leave suspects too disoriented to tell you anything of value. All this does is make us look like the villains of history we used to rail against. Tell me again why we fought the Nazis, the Japanese, had a cold war with the Soviets, the Chinese, Fidel, and opposed Pol Pot? One common denominator is we all, conservatives included, railed against these types of abuses. Dick Cheney and George Bush are common thugs. What would He think?

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Molly - I don't know how to tell you this, but we used similar techniques in WWII and onward. We also shot POWs, which was not condoned, but ignored as much as possible. The question becomes simple, what is torture. I see no torture in these, although they are definitely abuse. So be it. From a historical view they are lucky to have not been executed, which has long been the fate of guerillas and terrorists. In that respect, they never had it so good. As for the usual claim about confessions, it isn't that simple. Intelligence, as pointed out by Robertsq, is made up of many parts. And yes, people can be trained to tell fake stories, but anything totally fake is very easy to tear down, so that doesn't work. Truth be known, the cries of the Left in this matter are there only because they believe it makes the US look bad. Nothing else. As for why we fought WWII, the answer is simple. Japan attacked us, and Germany declared war the next day as it was obligated to do by its treaty with Japan. Note that this has nothing to do with high moral positions. As for the war crimes trials, we were not in the dock for a variety of reasons. The first is that we had won. In the end we won because we were bigger, stronger, quicker and more dedicated to killing, not because we were morally right, although we were then, as we are now. Countries survive because their citizens are willing to do whatever is necessary to destroy those who attack it. When we become unwilling to do that we will no longer exist as a country, and the light of freedom we have lit will give way to centuries of darkness. That may not pose a problem for you. To me it is a damnable thought.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Old Rummy said he could stand all day at work to justify this particular method of torture. Has he done any 40 hour shifts lately?

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Z - Who cares? He isn't flying airplanes into buildings or sawing off innocent peoples' heads.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#9)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    simulated execusion is torture. warterboarding is simulated execution. we are a nation of laws or we arent pick one.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#11)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    You know, ppj, some of those folks that we're treating so abysmally haven't flown planes into buildings or sawn people's heads off either. In fact, I'd say most of 'em haven't.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#12)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Quick question to our wingnuts: Would you volunteer to be waterboarded for a few hours?

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#13)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Oh, and as usual, the "it's not torture" wingnuts might have a point if this report was complete. It isn't. It has already been confirmed by members of Congress that there are other techniques not on this list, like say, rape and murder. "No," the wingnuts say, "The Bush Administration refuses to release the evidence of these, therefore they do not exist!" These people should be locked in padded cells.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    nolo - True. But the vast majority are terrorists. For the odd one that is not, the sad truth is that sometimes bad things happen to good people. To prevent this it would be very helpful if the so-called Moslem moderates made some very intense efforts to remove the terrorists from their society and their civilization. Darkly - To be anything the country must first survive. If you dislike the results you can complain and try to change it, or you can leave. But if you lose, you will dislike that result much, much more than the alternative. Jen - See my comment to Darkly.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#15)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    So you pick no.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Jen - Do you still beat your husband? See my comments. They're plain enough for even you.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#17)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Usually I eschew clear dichotomies, the kinds of arbitrary black and white distinctions that the Republicans consistently harp on in their efforts to erode civil liberties and make America in the image of _Happy Days_. Rummy thinks he's the Fonz. But anyway, Jen is spot on when she writes:
    we are a nation of laws or we arent pick one.
    Good luck running from this question and calling yourself a Patrior at the same time, Jim (My country right or wrong!) aka PPJ.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    That fact that some folks are not outraged and even relish these types of interrogation techniques shows the extent of their depravity. Yes, torture has been used for centuries. And at the end of the day its just a power trip - having absolute control over another human being. The standard excuse to condone torture is we have to do what ever is necessary to protect national security. That has always been the rationale for fascists and totalitarian regimes. There is a good reason why the founders of our country established a written constitution and enshrined a bill of rights. It was to protect the individual from the tyranny of the state. If as the Bush administration now claims (after all other reasons have been proven false) that we are in Iraq to promote freedom and liberty and then turn around and torture prisoners as a matter of policy - what kind of hypocrisy is that? How can this Administration lecture the Chinese on Human Rights when they have no respect for those rights. How many of those in Gitmo, Abu Ghraib and all those "black sites" in Europe and the Middle East are terrorists and how many are innocent? Why have so few been actually charged with committing a crime? Why is our Senate in such a rush to remove habeas corpus for these individuals? What are they afraid of?

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    As little boy or girl is about to pull the legs off a spider one by one s/he muses
    The question becomes simple, what is torture. I see no torture in these , although they are definitely abuse.
    Gee ppj you are even using the 'new' substitute word Wingnuttia uses for torture: abuse

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    PPJ, the third Reich would be proud. Too bad you were born too late.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimcee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:17 PM EST
    I'm not sure I agree that these methods are torture, abuse definitly, but torture? I don't think so. Apparently many here are too young to remember when public schools in the US had corporal punishment, I'm not. I would have welcomed most of the things described above instead except the waterboard thing as I'm claustrophobic. As far as the being cold thing you must live someplace warm otherwise it wouldn't be an issue, been there done it. Overall if this is the worst thing that the US is doing to terrorists then we're being pretty restrained. If you consider it torture then this country has become a bunch of pansy-asses. I guess the West should just roll over and let the minority of Muslims who are radical rule the world with thier beheadings, bombings and Sharia. What I find hard to believe is that there are folks that would defend the rights of terrorists who would prefer honor killings over Westerners that would abuse those that think honor killings are A-OK.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#24)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:17 PM EST
    I'm not sure I agree that these methods are torture, abuse definitly, but torture? I don't think so.
    golly, people died from these techniques, nope, no torture there.
    Apparently many here are too young to remember when public schools in the US had corporal punishment, I'm not. I would have welcomed most of the things described above instead except the waterboard thing as I'm claustrophobic.
    Ahh yes, the good old days when you teacher could punch you over and over, (being careful not to leave a mark) and then drown you. That must have been a catholic school you went to. BTW, did the priest buttf*** you too?
    Overall if this is the worst thing that the US is doing to terrorists then we're being pretty restrained.
    Killing folks is restrained?
    As far as the being cold thing you must live someplace warm
    The human body temp is 98.6. A naked human will survive 50 F degrees air temp for about 16 hours. Water has about 40 times the heat removal rate of air. BTW, I do live somewhere warm. It is called my house, where I have a furnace and clothing and unrestrained movement. Something even free iraqis don't have.
    truth be known, the cries of the Left in this matter are there only because they believe it makes the US look bad. Nothing else.
    Torture makes the US look bad, and people who endorse torture make the US look worse. Golly, when the iraqis tortured folks (then and now) the US promised to stop it. But somehow the pervs on this site endorse it. So bushco tortured folks until they said exactly what bushco wanted them to. And it all turned out to be lies because when you torture folks they'll tell you anything you want to here. THAT'S how we went to war. So much for the morality of these so called christians.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:17 PM EST
    Glanton - Life is composed of decisions. My decision is that my country is not perfect, but it is improving, and will continue to do so. I base my positions on that. The Left believes my country is always wrong, and puts defending our enemies' rights ahead of defending the country. They base their positions on that. Pick one yourself. bossanova writes:
    Why have so few been actually charged with committing a crime?
    It looks like 507 have been. It also looks like a goodly number have been recaptured or killed after being released. So much for the "they're all innocent" BS floating around. Darkly - Yes you do. Too bad it doesn't apply except in the minds of the Left. Squeak - Go smear someone else. et al - From a historical viewpoint these people are being treated very well. The norm has been to execute gurellias.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:17 PM EST
    Sailor - We went to war because we believed that Saddam had WMD's and that he was a threat. How can you forget all those charges leveled by Kennedy, Levin, etc??? As for what the world thinks, please tell someone who gives a rat's as*. BTW - You write:
    So bushco tortured folks until they said exactly what bushco wanted them to.
    That is a BS, unprovable - I hate Bush - claim. You define yourself. BTW - Apparently you know more about Catholic schools than I.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimcee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:17 PM EST
    Sailor, I never went to a Catholic school, I am refering to my youth in a small public town school in upstate NY and when I recieved corporal punishment I deserved it. It taught me a small lesson about actions and re-actions. I lived and learned. Your try at Fisking my remarks only proves my point that you would be the person I would least want to depend on in an emergency. You are a feeble person and would have ended up in a padded room if you had to lead my life. In other words; you are a poof, witless, feeble and other wise a chump for the Left. Gosh, I hope life life doesn't give you a slap or a pink belly because you'll just give up and whine more than you do now. What a whimpering child.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:17 PM EST
    Jim you really should read the stuff you link. This from the site you linked:
    SEC. ENGLAND: Well, there's been over 200 detainees released from Guantanamo, so to date there's been over 200. One has been released as part of this process, one more will be released that we know of, and there could be more. I mean, we still have -- again, only 230 cases have been reviewed of the 507 hearings, so there could indeed be more that will be released. But this will be the second through this process, but in total about -- over 200 have been released from Guantanamo
    This from the other site: Citing a memo prepared for him by his staff, Hunter proceeded to discuss some of the at least 10 detainees who have been released from Guantanamo Bay, or Gitmo, only to re-join the fight against the U.S. coalition bringing democracy to Afghanistan. This is a “goodly number”? As for your claim: That is a BS, unprovable - I hate Bush - claim. You rarely make a claim that you can prove. I am still waiting for some examples of communist “spies” in the government that were tried and convicted? The Rosenbergs were not in the government and Hiss was convicted of perjury. Remember the “Good night, and Good luck” post. You only repeat the Republican talking points (propaganda).

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#30)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:18 PM EST
    Truth be known, the cries of the Left in this matter are there only because they believe it makes the US look bad. Nothing else.
    http://www.faithpartnersofamericas.org/Op-EdonTorture.htm

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#31)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:18 PM EST
    JimakaPPJ Please provide specifics re: "similar" techniques and shooting POW's. As to the latter are you sure they were hors de combat and not still combatants? Even if true, how do 2 wrongs combine to make a right? It has been the policy of this country through custom, law and treaty to observe the Geneva Conventions (at least until very recently). I didn't say we entered WWII because we opposed torture, I said one of the reasons we opposed the Nazis and the Japanense... there is a difference. Nice try though... (but no cigar!) Torture is morally objectionable, and not practical. When conservatives are reduced to defending torture and prisoner abuse, conservatives have lost their moral compass. Sad.

    Re: Ex-CIA Officers Reveal Torture Details (none / 0) (#32)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:18 PM EST
    It's amazing, the wrongwingers never have an answer, only personal attacks. jimcee, I'm sorry you were beaten as a child, but I'm even sorrier for YOUR children that you think it was right. And apparently your teachers beat you, attempted to drown you, shackled you to walls in 50 degree rooms and tossed cold water on you repeatedly. You're right, that's a tough childhood and I would have lasted about as long as the cia officers did (an average of 14 seconds before caving in) before I said ANYTHING they wanted me to say. BTW, read the article, the information gleaned was bogus and some folks died. That isn't torture? bushco manipulated evidence it gave to congress and kept lying about it even when admitting it was wrong. (See 'aluminum tubes' and 'iraq trained al Qaeda members to use biochemical weapons' to start with.)