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Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Torture"

By Jeralyn, Section War on Terror
Posted on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 11:37:23 PM EST
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In an interview with British ITV News Network , former CIA Director Stansfield Turner reportedly said the following:

President Bush is not telling the truth when he says that torture is not a method used by the US. Speaking of Bush's claims that the US does not use torture, Admiral Turner, who ran the CIA from 1977 to 1981, said: "I do not believe him".

On Dick Cheney he said "I'm embarrassed the United States has a vice president for torture. "He condones torture, what else is he?".

Turner was the CIA Director from 1977 to 1982 under Jimmy Carter.

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    Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Torture" | 31 comments (31 topical)
    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    Given the failure that was the Carter foreign policy, why should anyone take anything said by him - or any of his officials - seriously?

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    Given the failure that was the Carter foreign policy, why should anyone take anything said by him - or any of his officials - seriously? If you're referring to the Iranian hostage crisis it bears remembering that the Reagan campaign is said to have arranged to delay the release of hostages until after the election.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    Given the failure that was the Carter foreign policy, why should anyone take anything said by him - or any of his officials - seriously?
    Given the failures and lies of the Bush/Cheney administration, why should anyone take anything said by them - or any of their officials seriously?

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    t-d writes:
    If you're referring to the Iranian hostage crisis
    That was one of Jimmy's many... He set the stage.. As for your claim, that has never been proven, just claims from the far Left. As for Turner... You may have noted that the CIA, and others, have claimed that the current intelligence failures are due to a lack of human resources. I.e. Covert in-country agents. Turner completed the destruction of the CIA started by the Committee chaired by Democratic Senator Frank Church. Turner slashed agents, claiming they were sometimes nasty people and could be replaced by electronics. So where is the root cause of 9/11 and the WOT? Obviously Carter's polices and Stansfield's actions are huge negatives.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#5)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    Sorry for pointing out the obvious, but the issue here is not Jimmy Carter's foreign policy, but the fact that Cheney promotes torture.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#6)
    by theologicus on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    The Washington Post had an Editorial on Oct. 26, entitled "Vice President for Torture." Good that Turner is picking up the meme. The Post stated: "As for Mr. Cheney: He will be remembered as the vice president who campaigned for torture."

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    Reagan had a hostage crisis of his own.
    Reagan was driven by a different obsession. He had become frustrated at his inability to secure the release of the seven American hostages being held by Iranian terrorists in Lebanon.
    Remember the Iran-Contra scandal? The only difference between the Carter hostage crisis and the Reagan hostage crisis is that the media and Republicans hammered Carter daily. Carter’s foreign policy was not a failure. He brought the hostages home alive and he didn’t sell arms to our enemies to do it. Jim, where is some proof to you’re:
    Turner completed the destruction of the CIA started by the Committee chaired by Democratic Senator Frank Church. Turner slashed agents, claiming they were sometimes nasty people and could be replaced by electronics.
    It’s amazing Carter and Turner destroyed the CIA in four short years, and Reagan and Bush could not fix it in twelve years. I think you’re repeating Republican talking points. I’m still waiting for those names of communist “spies” in the government that were tried and convicted. Hiss was convicted of perjury and the Rosenbergs were not in the government. Remember the “Good night, and Good luck” post.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#8)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    Sure, Jimmy Carter's to blame. Is their not a vein of self-criticism in all the winger bodies on this site? That, in short, seems to be the difference on this issue. One side wants to examine it using our free American minds; the other side doesn't want to ponder anything that might cause them to question any decision or action they've made. Are we THAT afraid of standing up and saying "We made a mistake"? Oh wait, doing that will "empower" all the evil people in the world. I guess the answer is to act like the old USSR, never admit wrong, never admit your sh*t smells, just keep repeating the party line. My f'ing stomach hurts.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:14 PM EST
    I like the USSR comparison Dadler...well said, and most apt in my opinion.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    Posted by James Robertson: "Given the failure that was the Carter foreign policy, why should anyone take anything said by him - or any of his officials - seriously?" So good it needed to be 'said' again. Nevermind that he was an ADMIRAL. Wingers have never seen a political enemy that they didn't trash, instinctually. They especially LOVE to hate the military. Good one, James. Don't forget the Purple Heart Bandaid for your owie.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    Btw, it wasn't Turner, but some other hooligan, who ruined the CIA with carefully chosen LIES:
    ...the newly appointed Director of Central Intelligence, George H.W. Bush authorized the formation of a committee of anti-communist experts headed by Richard Pipes to reassess the raw data. Wolfowitz, who was still employed by the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, was assigned to this committee, which came to be known as Team B... The team's report delivered in 1976, and quickly leaked to the press, stated that; "All the evidence points to an undeviating Soviet commitment to what is euphemistically called the 'worldwide triumph of socialism,' ...before going on to highlight a number of key areas where they believed the 'professional' analysts had got it wrong... The conclusions of Team B have since been proven to be for the most part highly inaccurate worst-case scenarios but they did prove to be highly effective in discrediting the policy of détente and the SALT II strategic arms limitations talks and won over U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and future U.S. President Ronald Reagan giving Wolfowitz two very influential allies.
    (from wikipedia)

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#12)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    actually, the USSR analogy is strikingly apt: when the real history was inconvenient, their "historians" airbrushed it away, to eliminate any reference to the event or person. if someone was no longer in favor, they disappeared from photographs, history textbooks, etc, as though they never existed. this is the same approach being taken today by the republican party and it's "conservative" allies. inconvenient facts just disappear. anyone who has the temerity to bring them up is accused of "historical revisionism", by the very revisors themselves. now, that's what i call chutzpah! you just can't buy that kind of entertainment.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#13)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    How can anyone possibly take seriously someone who disputes Bush's claim that "we do not torture"? (Warning - Sarcasm Alert) Did he not tell the truth about the reasons for Iraq? Have those reasons given not been supported by subsequent evidence? For Bush is an honorable man. So are they all honorable men. Did Bush not promise to uphold the honor and dignity of the office of the Presidency? I'm sure that Bush is sincerely interested in doing all he can do to get to the bottom of the Valerie Plame scandal. For Bush is an honorable man. So are they all honorable men. Those reports of abuse at Guantanamo and Bagram, and those photos of torture at Abu Ghraib, cannot be real because Bush says that "we do not torture". And, Bush is an honorable man. So are they all honorable men.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#14)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    Ahh Marc (AKA john horse) you truly have come not to praise bush but to bury him. (with apoligies to Billy S) Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; And close the wall up with our American dead. Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide, Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit Having put on a flight suit we strut claiming Mission Accomplished, we lied! Be copy now to men of grosser blood, And teach them how to war. We've cut off your college loans and foodstamps, now prepare to join and die. Follow your spirit, and upon this charge Cry 'God for torture, America, and Saint George!'

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#15)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    Dick "Dick" Cheney is an embarassment to the human race.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#16)
    by John Mann on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    I remember a tongue-in-cheek slogan that was making the rounds during Richard Nixon's reelection campaign. It went: "Why change Dicks in the middle of a screw? Vote for Nixon in '72" The new Dick: worse than the old Dick.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    John, there was another just as good, originally worded for Nixon as well: "Dick Cheney, before Cheney dicks you!"

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    John Mann, I too remember the slogans, updated; Dick Cheney before he dicks you! Bush should pull out like his father should have. And more recently: Lick bush and beat dick, because life is too important to let republicans into our bedrooms.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#19)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    Isn't it interesting that in this discussion, noone believes Bush when he says "we do not torture"? Don't be fooled by the tough guy poses of those advocating torture. As Molly Ivins points out, what is so manly about "tak(ing) some miserable human being alone and helpless in a cell, completely under your control, and torturing him"? Sailor and John Mann, I'm waiting for the "Don't blame me. I voted for Kerry" bumper sticker.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    "...anyone who has the temerity to bring them up is accused of "historical revisionism", by the very revisors themselves. now, that's what i call chutzpah! you just can't buy that kind of entertainment."
    I am NOT entertained.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    debbie writes:
    It’s amazing Carter and Turner destroyed the CIA in four short years,
    No, you still need help with history. It was started by Democrat Frank Church about 5 years before Jimmy and Stansfield finished it off.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#22)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    PPJ...again...couldn't Ronnie Reagan and Bush the Elder fix what was broken? They had 12 years. In which they 1.) went into Lebanon (ouch) 2.) Sold arms to Iran (ouch) 3.) Funded Bin Laden (you get the picture by now?)

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#23)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    Ernesto, Among certain Republicans, Jimmy Carter was a failure because he supported human rights instead of torture.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:15 PM EST
    ernie - I have mentioned many times that we have taught the terrorists that it may be possible to force a political win on the US if they just hang on long enough to let the anti-war Left do their work. That is you, ernie. The past teachers were other Leftists, out right communists and fellow travelers during the Vietnam war, as well as what Stalin called “useful idiots.” And, yes, Reagan for his withdrawal in Lebanon and Clinton in Mogadishu. GHW Bush is on the fringe of this for not finishing off Saddam when he had the chance. I also note that you continue to blame the US for 9/11 instead of the terrorists by claiming that our support for the Afghanistan fighters against the Soviets, and our support for Iraq against Iran somehow provides OBL and the terrorists moral cover for their damnable actions. Frankly, ernie, that is a stupid position. But please don't quit using it. It provides a beautiful example of the Left's inability to see reality. Et al – Since you like Shakespeare: “Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our English dead! In peace there ’s nothing so becomes a man As modest stillness and humility; But when the blast of war blows in our ears, Then imitate the action of the tiger: Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood.” King Henry V Quote Act iii. Scene 1. “And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by, From this day to the ending of the world, But we in it shall be remember'd; We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition: And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day. “(King Henry, IV.iii)

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Hilarious that Jim chooses the band of brothers quote, "For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother;" when the entire WHIG is made up of chickenhawks and draft dodgers. They all 'hold their manhoods cheap.' Our have their manhoods held by the likes of Jeff Guckhert. "Then imitate the action of the tiger:" and torture the innocent, while destroying America's national defense, our treasury, and our credibility. Bodybags for soldiers, kickbacks for Bushbackers, and blowback for the rest of us! Mission accomplished!

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    PIL - Well, I gotta admit you got me about Jeff G. I mean he got so much exposure on TV and all. Matter of fact, the only person close to getting as much exposure as Jeff was Mrs. Sheehan. As for the quote, it was to remind you that there are very special people in harms way tonight, dedicated to protecting you. Although if they have read many of your comments they probably do so while holding their nose and wishing they could include you out. Now, tell us again about the Marines you know and those 7 guys you whipped. Uh-huh. Sure.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#27)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    I mean he got so much exposure on TV and all. Matter of fact, the only person close to getting as much exposure as Jeff was Mrs. Sheehan.
    But neither got as much exposure as Shiavo or Holloway, and none of these got as much exposure as the 'WMD' mantra in 2002. Don't let that get in your way, though, if you're a redneck. Just stay on Planet Murdoch, nod, and smile.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    PPJ...another interesting take on history...the "Left" is to blame for this disaster. Ummm...who funded and armed Bin Laden in the first place? Who armed Saddam? Again you dodge the facts...and the question: what did Reagan and Bush do to fix the mistakes you attribute to Carter? (Besides circumvent Congress to sell arms to Iran in order to arm death squads in Central America, among other things) All I see them having accomplished was to start the mess that we are currently in.

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    shorter PPJ: "Cause and effect? Huh, what's that? (Belch. Snort.)"

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#30)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Ernesto: You forgot (Adjust ball cap. Grab package. Spit into cup.)

    Re: Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Tortu (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:17 PM EST
    Glanton - And would you like to read the Demos contribution? Link ernie - You keep saying the same thing, and it makes zero sense. If you give your neighbor a gun to allow him to protect himself from burglars, does that justify him shooting at you? Gesh. Dumb. BTW - I have never "blamed the Left" for 9/11. For their actions since.... yes. Yes indeed. Absolutely. 100%... Glanton writes:
    Grab package.
    If you got'em, eh???? Darkly - Perhaps if we had not ran off 25% what you refer to, if it did, would not have happened. Either way, First Church and then Carter/Stansfield. Thanks, guy. The country needed that. Uh-huh. Sure.

    Former CIA Official Calls Cheney "VP for Torture" | 31 comments (31 topical)