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Bush's Base Support Weakens

by TChris

A new AP-Ipsos poll shows that the president's base is increasingly disappointed with his job performance:

The number of people who strongly approve of Bush's job performance has eroded over the last year, most notably among key groups like evangelical voters, down from 49 percent who strongly approved in January to 33 percent now; Republican men, down from 57 percent to 42 percent; Protestants, down from 36 percent to 25 percent; and Southerners, down from 32 percent to 22 percent.

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    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:47 PM EST
    Rats -- sinking ship -- leaving.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:47 PM EST
    What's the zip code for 1600 Pennsylvania? I think I'll send the little bugger a condolence card...

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#3)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:48 PM EST
    at this point, anyone who still supports this president and administration is a truly hopeless case. the best thing they can do, for themselves and their families, is find a high bridge and end it all, before they're put on life support. certainly, their voting privilages should be taken, they are much too stupid to ever be allowed to directly participate in an election ever again.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:48 PM EST
    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:48 PM EST
    cpinva writes:
    the best thing they can do, for themselves and their families, is find a high bridge and end it all,
    Hey, now you have joined edger in inviting people who disagree with your world view to kill themselves. What, I ask, is with you guys? I mean look up "bitter" in a dictionary and I swear you would find: "Lefties" BTW - Re your to stupid to vote commen. I see you are taking your direction from Walter Cronkite's talking points. Congrats on being able to follow the simple instructions. Don't forget your 4PM sign-in for the daily birefing. ...Speaking of wrong and dumb.. Uncle Walter was the one who said we lost the Tet offensive... Yes, he is just so intelligent. edger - You really should. And don't forget the address starts with: George W. Bush, President..... with or without approval... for two years and almost four months. :-) Don't forget. I'm the guy standing in the back of the room grinning at you.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:48 PM EST
    Jim: Don't forget. I'm the guy standing in the back of the room grinning... ... to take your meds today. They'll make it much easier to see the wall ;-)

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#8)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    jim, you truly exemplify the comment about "a boring consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds". not only are you consistently boring, you can't even get your facts straight. to whit: we did lose tet, just not for the reasons originally stated by uncle walter. it was a total, unambiguous intelligence disaster, regardless of how many nva & vc were killed. can't get much worse than that. this was the definitive precursor to our eventual withdrawal from vietnam. to quote from "the music man", "you gotta know the territory", we didn't. this rather neatly encapsulates our present situation in iraq as well. frankly, i wouldn't know mr. cronkite's "talking points" from a hole in the wall, obviously the same can't be said for you. some of us are actually capable of independent analytical thought processes, given documented facts, not partisan hack pablum. that anyone would still consciously support this administration, given its history of abject failure on all fronts, says one of two possible things about them: 1. they are brain dead. that being the case, who wants to be on life support for eternity? the decent thing for them would be to end it all. brain dead people shouldn't be allowed to vote. 2. they have a vested financial/polititcal interest in this administration. halliburton comes quickly to mind.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    Many of the folks who are disappointed in Bush are upset for the wrong reasons. Dems still need to get their act together. There's plenty of other yahoos out there who would love to take Bush/Cheney's places.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#10)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    Bush is a disaster because he didn't learn from the mistakes of his father. His father was a wishy-washy tool who had the backbone of a jellyfish. Bush mistakenly went to war in Iraq with the full backing of the Democrats and the media. What he should've foreseen was how quickly they would turn on him once Saddam was out of power, within weeks by my recollection. The natural disaster Katrina was used to attack him personally, something unprecedented in American politics. How low will the left go? Lower than he ever imagined. He's underestimated the opposition at every turn and he deserves what he's getting.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#12)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    I lived through the crack epidemic in which I saw the murder of THOUSANDS of young black males on the streets of Wash,DC. I personally attended to many of them. I lived through the genocide in Rwanda and Bosnia when Clinton did Jack to stop the slaughter. I lived through the Dot Com swindle (like todays real estate swindle) where the little people were shorn like sheep by the modern day robber barons. Are you telling me those were the good ole days?

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    No LWW, Ernesto was not saying the 90s were the good old days (your reading comprehension leave something to be desired). You were saying the attacks on Bush are greater than any previous president. But they don't even begin to compare to what the right did to Clinton. I mean, the Nation hasn't accused Bush of being a drug dealer who has people iced like the Wall St. Journal editorial page did to Clinton. Soros hasn't spent millions funding a "Texas Project" designed to dig up (or make up) dirt on Bush's personal life like Scaife did to Clinton. Obviously, we notice more the attacks on "our guy", so I was more sensitive to Clinton attacks, you to Bush attacks, but I am pretty darn sure that non-partisan historians will record what Clinton went through as the most vicious attack and slander that any president has ever endured.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#14)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    No J.B., your wise-ass remark comprehension leaves something to be desired. If you're telling me that Clinton had less people in the media who admired him and voted for him than Bush does you're either a fool or a liar. Polls have shown that 85- 90% of media people vote for democrats. Any criticism Clinton received came from outside the media and then the media reported it. With Bush the criticism originates in the media, a big difference.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    The Fallacy of the Impossibility of Withdrawal By Mark A. LeVine
    If Americans can admit to--and in doing so, comprehend--the damage our government has wrought in Iraq in our name and with our consent, we will take an important first step in ending our addiction to an unsustainable corporate-led, consumer-driven culture, and the wars and systematic violence, oppression and exploitation it requires world-wide. ... Are the only options in Iraq maintaining an unpopular and costly occupation or handing the country over to "former members of Saddam Hussein's regime, criminal elements and foreign terrorists" (as President Bush describes them)? The answer is manifestly no, and the fact so few people within the corridors of power can imagine an alternative policy reveals a powerful yet fallacious line of reasoning at the heart of arguments to "stay the course" in Iraq: that a US troop withdrawal would automatically leave a security vacuum in its place. But such an outcome is by no means a foregone conclusion...
    Mr. LeVine is professor of modern Middle Eastern history, culture, and Islamic studies at the University of California, Irvine.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    You have got to be kidding me. The media salivated over the clinton scandals, printing every little ridiculous, unsourced rumor they could find. The reasons for this are many. Yes, many reporters are democrats, but publishers are not. Next, scandals sell. Finally, and this is true for every left leaning journalist I have known, they are very nervous about appearing biased (and you conservatives have gotten very good at screaming bias any time a story is not written exactly to your liking) that they overcorrect to avoid appearing biased. For a better analysis of this, you could try reading Eric Alterman's book were he does and detailed analysis of this. You said that criticism originated from outside of the media for clinton, but that is all in how you define journalism. It came from Drudge, from Rush, from Fox news, from American Spectator. And another thing the right is good (and that I will admit that the left is getting better at) is creating a great echo chamber for whatever it is they are trying to push until the rest of the media covered it too. And let me tell you that whatever bias might exist among left-leaning journalist, i think it pales in comparison of the conservative journalist. I mean, you have mainstream conservatives writing books about liberals being traitors. (and before you start, Michael Moore is not a mainstream democrat. If you polled democrats you would find they overwhelmingly place him on the far left of the party. If fact, he worked for the greens so I don't even think he is in the party). When it comes to Bush, the media has for years gone really easy on him, starting in the election season of 2000 (if you think the media treated Gore better, or even equally to Bush you are beyond hope). Then after 9/11, reporters were totally cowed and afraid to look unpatriotic. The lead up the the iraq war was the most pathetic journalism I have seen in my entire life. Now the media is starting to get a little tougher on Bush, but aside from the whole Rather business, I don't think any of the toughness has been contrived or undeserved. It is the job of the press to be critical watchdogs of the government. Finally, in your orginal post, you didn't say anything about journalists, you just said that what has happened to Bush was unprecedented in American politics. Democrats haven't attacked Bush nearly as viciously as Republicans attacked Clinton. Ask any democratic activist and they would say that Democrats have been unbelievably and disgustingly spineless against Bush, again, probably because of 9/11, and a little less of late.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    Polls have shown that 85-90% of media people vote for democrats.
    Initially I was going to suggest that this might be because people who work in the media have to think critically and present logical arguments. But then I remembered about the FOX network. So how do you account for those poll results, LWW?

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#18)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    LWW, you revise history as you see fit. first, "thousands" of young, black males didn't die in d.c. during the crack epidemic. perhaps hundreds, but not thousands. produce documented proof to the contrary. i lived here as well, and still do. had that been the actual case, william bennett's fondest wish would essentially have already come true, in d.c. it was the "liberal" press that pushed the bogus clinton "scandals", starting with the non existent "whitewater". it was the "liberal" ny times and wp that gave the presidency to gw, while ripping gore. i cite the "gore invented the internet", and "love story" lies, created and promoted by such "liberals" as maureen dowd and marc rich. gw conned the media and the democrats by using colin powell. he fed powell lies, sent him to the u.n. to publicize those lies, and banked on mr. powell's integrity and honor to convince people that there was a legitimate reason to attack iraq. mr. powell gave up everything he'd worked for his entire life, to be used and discarded by bush. that u.n. presentation was what convinced those of us who were against it to begin with. my feeling was, "if colin powell believes it to be true, i'll take his word for it.". i was not alone.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#19)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    If you want to get to truly slandered Presidents, look no farther than FDR. Compared to what he put up with, W is a punk.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    I don't see Bush reviving his popularity. His handlers and party elders, along with intelligence and military, know him for the dangerous dunce and bumbler he is. It would not at all be surprising for him to be eliminated at this time in order to salvage the '06 midterms.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#21)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    I think the problem for Republicans is deeper than Bush's declining popularity. I think it has to do with the coalitions that keep the Republicans in power, specifically among social conservatives. There are many people from working and middle class families that vote GOP because they are socially conservative (anti-abortion, anti-gay, etc.). However, on economic issues they are more in line with Democrats. With Bush's Supreme Court picks, the Court will either reverse some of the major decisions, like Roe v Wade, or it will not. If it does, then you have removed a major reason that a large number of people vote Republican. If it doesn't, then what is the point of supporting the GOP?

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    What, I ask, is with you guys? I mean look up "bitter" in a dictionary and I swear you would find: Karl Rove's "Understanding of 9/11"
    Karl, when you say, “Conservatives saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and prepared for war,” what exactly did you do to prepare for your war? Did your preparations include: sound intelligence to warrant your actions; a reasonable entry and exit strategy coupled with a coherent plan to carry out that strategy; the proper training and equipment for the troops you were sending in to fight your war? Did you follow the advice of experts such as General Shinseki who correctly advised you about the troop levels needed to actually succeed in Iraq? No, you didn't. It has always been America's policy that you only place soldiers' lives in harm's way when it is absolutely necessary and the absolute last resort. When you send troops into combat you support those troops by providing them with proper equipment and training. Why didn't you do that with the troops that you sent into Iraq? Why weren't their vehicles armored? Why didn't they have protective vests? Why weren't they properly trained about the rules of interrogation? And Karl, when our troops come home – be it tragically in body bags or with missing limbs – you should honor and acknowledge their service to their country. You shouldn't hide them by bringing them home in the dark of night. Most importantly, you should take care of them for the long haul by giving them substantial veteran's benefits and care. To me, that is being patriotic. To me, that is how you support our troops. To me, that is how you show that you know the value of a human life given for its country.


    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#23)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    What, I ask, is with you guys? I mean look up "bitter" in a dictionary and I swear you would find: A Photo Gallery

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    What, I ask, is with you guys? I mean look up "bitter" in a dictionary and I swear you would find: The Fallacy

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    cpinva - I see you are still incapable of believing the person who was there. After all, if you did your world view would be turned upside down. As for Uncle Walter. He said what he said, and I think you heard it. Denial becomes you. BTW - WaPost Link to Whitewater and other scandals.
    The mysterious disappearance and rediscovery of billing records showing the extent of Hillary Clinton's legal work for McDougal's savings and loan. Missing and under subpoena for two years, they turned up in January 1996 in the Clintons' private quarters at the White House.
    You know, you really don't want to talk about scandals during Clinton's administration. Or, as Freeh's book demonstrates, even now. edger - Twist and turn, but you guys are the ones always making angry, bitter statements. Don't forget. I'm the guy in the back of the room grinning at you.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#26)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    The Army never told combat engineer Dwayne Mowrer or his fellow soldiers in the First Infantry Division much about D.U. [depleted uranium] ... "We heard this tremendous boom and saw this black cloud blowing our way," he said. "The cloud went right over us, blew right over our camp." Before they left the gulf, Mowrer and other soldiers in the 651st Combat Support Attachment began experiencing strange flulike symptoms. He figured the symptoms would fade once he was back in the United States. They didn't. Mowrer's personal doctor and physicians at the local Veterans Administration could find nothing wrong with him. Meanwhile, his health worsened: fatigue, memory loss, bloody noses and diarrhea. Then the single parent of two began experiencing problems with motor skills, bloody stools, bleeding gums, rashes and strange bumps on his eyelids, nose and tongue. The Pentagon's Radioactive Bullet


    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    edger - Well, there you go... talking about bullets again... BTW - Got any evidence? I mean besides an article by a j o ur n a l i s t who may have flunked General Science? I'm still grinning. I mean really. How do you know these guys weren't living under high voltage electric transmission wires? Can't you do better?

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    you truly exemplify the comment about "a boring consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds".
    Er, the quote actually is "a foolish consistency." (But that could be about right.)

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    "Karl, please 'understand' that the reason we have not suffered a repeat attack on our homeland is because Bin Laden no longer needs to attack us. Those of us with a pure and comprehensive “understanding of 9/11” know that Bin Laden committed the 9/11 attacks so he could increase recruitment for al Qaeda and increase worldwide hatred of America. That didn't happen. Because after 9/11, the world united with Americans and al Qaeda's recruitment levels never increased. It was only after your invasion of Iraq, that Bin Laden's goals were met. Because of your war in Iraq two things happened that helped Bin Laden and the terrorists: al Qaeda recruitment soared and the United States is now alienated from and hated by the rest of the world. In effect, what Bin Laden could not achieve by murdering my husband and 3,000 others on 9/11, you handed to him on a silver platter with your invasion of Iraq - a country that had nothing to do with 9/11". -- Kristen Breitweiser "Which leads me to my final questions for you Karl: What are your motives when it comes to 9/11 and are you really sure that you understand 9/11?"


    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#32)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    Maintaining Focus: Rove and Iraq War Data All Things Considered, July 13, 2005 · NPR Senior News Analyst Daniel Schorr says that the real issue in the Karl Rove controversy is not a leak, but a war, and how America was misled into that war. Listen to this story... (Windows Media Player audio link - takes a minute to load)

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    TTFN, Whizzy.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#34)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    Hey, now you have joined edger in inviting people who disagree with your world view to kill themselves. What, I ask, is with you guys? I mean look up "bitter" in a dictionary and I swear you would find: "Lefties" BTW - Re your to stupid to vote commen. I see you are taking your direction from Walter Cronkite's talking points. Congrats on being able to follow the simple instructions. Don't forget your 4PM sign-in for the daily birefing. ...Speaking of wrong and dumb.. Uncle Walter was the one who said we lost the Tet offensive... Yes, he is just so intelligent. edger - You really should. And don't forget the address starts with: George W. Bush, President..... with or without approval... for two years and almost four months. :-) Don't forget. I'm the guy standing in the back of the room grinning at you.
    Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more: it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#35)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    cpinva- Throughout the 90's the murder rate hovered just below 500 with most victims being young black males. Do the math. Where were you, in some lily-white enclave in N. Va? On a related topic: President Musharraf's poll numbers are way down because he hasn't personally dug out the thousands of victims trapped under rubble in remote areas of earthquake ravaged Pakistan. Opposition politicians and media have accused him of hating certain tribal members whose villages were devestated by the earthquakes and they accuse him of deliberately letting them die in the rubble because they are known to vote for his opponents. Where'd these people get the idea to do that?

    Re: Bush's Base Support Weakens (none / 0) (#36)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    PPJ, here's your basic problem: You laugh, and you scorn, and you grin, and you smirk ... and nobody gives a damn.