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Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again

by TChris

And the hits just keep on coming.

A Texas grand jury indicted Rep. Tom DeLay on a new charge of money laundering Monday, less than a week after another grand jury leveled a conspiracy charge that forced DeLay to temporarily step down as House majority leader.

Update:

The new indictment, handed up by a grand jury seated Monday, contained two counts. The money laundering charge carries a penalty of up to life in prison.

(Another update below the fold.)

Today's indictment followed DeLay's request to dismiss the first indictment. DeLay contends that the original charge was based on a statute that wasn't in effect in 2002, when he allegedly conspired to violate election laws.

The NY Times reports that the Justice Department's investigation of Jack Abramoff may add to DeLay's legal worries.

The new indictment was issued as Bush administration officials confirmed news reports in London that the Justice Department had asked the British police to question former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher about the circumstances of her meeting in 2000 with Mr. DeLay during a trip to Britain organized by the Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

The interview request was the first publicly disclosed evidence from the Justice Department that Mr. DeLay was under scrutiny in the department's wide-ranging corruption investigation of Mr. Abramoff.

Update: Here's a possible explanation of the timing of the new indictment:

The backdrop for yesterday's action may have been a dispute over the continued viability of a waiver of the three-year statute of limitations that DeLay granted in writing on Sept. 12, in order to keep trying to persuade Earle not to issue any indictments. After last week's conspiracy charge, DeGuerin said the waiver was withdrawn.

Yesterday's indictments maintained the waiver was still in effect. But DeGuerin said in an interview that Earle may have brought the new charges so speedily because he was uncertain of his ground on that issue. A key transaction in the alleged conspiracy -- the payment of $190,000 by the RNC to the Texas Republican candidates -- occurred on Oct. 4, 2002, or three years ago today.

That means that if the waiver is no longer in effect, the new charges had to be brought quickly. "I think they were losing sleep about this over the weekend," DeGuerin said.

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    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    If by "hits", you mean Ronnie Earle's reaction to Delay's lawyer: "Oh crap, that charge won't stick - better find a new one"

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    Hey, JR- Just in case you've not been paying attention, these indictments originate in Grand Juries. Not with Ronnie Earle. But why let facts get in the way of a right wing talking point? "Tom Delay indicted on Money Laundering Charge"....what a sweet sound. Hope there's a sequel...TD convicted on MLC....

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    So any indictment by a Grand Jury is "serious"? The prosecutor had nothing to do with it? As well, if a Grand Jury indictment is enough, then you must believe any number of bad things about Clinton (either one). Or are indictments only politically motivated when they come from Republicans?

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#4)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    Does anyone know if Earle is in charge of the 2nd GJ? JR, the jury foreman in the 1st case was a DeLay supporter ... before he saw the evidence. DeLay lied about not being allowed to testify before the GJ. DeLay sicced the DHS on the dems who refused to go along with his gerrymandering. DeLay lied about where the TRMPAC money came from. Oddly enough, when DeLay gets convicted it will be the 1st case of justice DeLayed is not justice denied;-)

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#5)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    As well, if a Grand Jury indictment is enough, then you must believe any number of bad things about Clinton (either one).
    Huh?

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#6)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    I guess you could portray the House of Representatives as a grand jury, but they weren't exactly, um, impartial, being controlled by Republicans. Looks like ol' JR has finally snapped from troll to outright liar / street corner loon.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#7)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    So, how come the RNC isn't an accessory to money laundering?

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#8)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    New grand jury, same prosecutor. Apparently, the first indictment was under a statute that did not take effect until a year after the acts by Delay.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    The new charge has a Life in Prison possible sentence per the WaPo. Delays attorney was challenging legitimacy of old charge as being ex post facto, but this is not the case per TX legal experts who said the revised 2003 law simply made explicit what was previously implicit. This makes it much more likelier that Delay will CO-OPERATE if things start to go bad for him. Especially if Bush is convulsed by Plame indictments, he can not readily pardon Delay.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#10)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    New grand jury, same prosecutor.
    Really? I researched the Texas Judicial System and current Grand Juries and I can't find any mention of Earle. Obviously your info is far superior. Please provide links.
    Apparently, the first indictment was under a statute that did not take effect until a year after the acts by Delay.
    Not accurate, the 1st indictment was for Criminal conspiracy. The law you are referring to was an Election law passed later. I understand that it gets more difficult everyday, but you do understand the difference between a crime and an election!?

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    James Robertson, Keep clicking your heels together and saying "There's no place like home."

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    Sailor-WAPO has an article that confirms Earl's involvement in the second indctment: Oct 4-
    The backdrop for yesterday's action may have been a dispute over the continued viability of a waiver of the three-year statute of limitations that DeLay granted in writing on Sept. 12, in order to keep trying to persuade Earle not to issue any indictments. After last week's conspiracy charge, DeGuerin said the waiver was withdrawn. Yesterday's indictments maintained the waiver was still in effect. But DeGuerin said in an interview that Earle may have brought the new charges so speedily because he was uncertain of his ground on that issue.
    WAPO via War And Peace

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#14)
    by Peter G on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    I dislike DeLay as much as the next (nontroll) regular reader of TalkLeft, but I smell prosecutorial overreaching. "Money laundering" is the new "darling of the prosecutor's nursery," as Justice Jackson once famously referred to conspiracy law.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#15)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    Um... Peter, I think money laundering is more substantive than conspiracy. Unless you mean to tell me that this scumbag is less guilty than Martha Stewart.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#16)
    by SeeEmDee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    Setting aside the obvious personal effect this will have on Mr. DeLay's career, what effect will this have on the gerrymandering that took place in Texas? I suspect none...

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    You said it See....the gerrymandering was Delay's real crime against democracy. The conspiracy, the money laundering..I'd expect you could find half of congress guilty of similar stuff, they all play loose with the money rules. Delay just a little more than most.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    et al - Here's a link that provides some food for thought. Link Let the games begin.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#19)
    by Rick B on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    Delays attorney was challenging legitimacy of old charge as being ex post facto, but this is not the case per TX legal experts who said the revised 2003 law simply made explicit what was previously implicit.
    Young Turk - can you or someone else explain to a layman what this means? How was the law previously implicit? Does using a law which is merely implicit make it harder to get a conviction?

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#20)
    by Rick B on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:39 PM EST
    I smell prosecutorial overreaching. "Money laundering" is the new "darling of the prosecutor's nursery,"
    Money laundering is a clear crime. It involves taking money from an illegal source, moving it throung intermediate institutions, and delivering it as though it were legitimate for use at its final destination. In this case the final destination was the campaigns of Republican aspirants for the Texas Legislature, and the source was corporation donors. That souce is illegal under a century-old Texas law. The intermediate institutions were the RNC and TRMPAC. If it can be shown through behavior, witnesses, documents, phone calls and e-mails that DeLay directed that movement of money, then money laundering clearly occurred. I suspect that DeLay's public statements alone make a reasonable case against him. The difficulty is, of course, that the intent of laundering money is to hide the source from the people at the destination. I'm sure DeLay's attorney Dick DeGuerrin will play that up because of the uncertainty it may create. The reason why money laundering has not been a classic crime like bank robbing is that the documents were unlikely to exist prior to bank computerization and the availability of phone records and e-mails. Money laundering has always been a msjor part of criminal activity. It was just harder to clearly prove in the past. An interesting side point to me is that this use of corporate funds in the Texas Legislature races took place at the same time the McCain-Feingold Campaign Reform Law took effect in federal races, and DeLay had been an expert at getting corporate funds into federal races. This may have been his effort to redirect corporate money the McCain-Feingold law had made illegal in federal races. But that is merely my supposition based on the concidental timing.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    Dan Rostenkowski. Lots of folks at home here in Chicago loved Dan because he brought home the bacon and did not want him charged. Most were willing to overlook his transgressions because "everybody" was doing it. I for one, was against any "overlooking". Seems that DeLay might want to avoid the Rostenkowski approach to this indictment as I believe we can all remember how danny boy fared...

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    PPJ linking to Powerline: the very definition of dog bites man.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    Randy, even an extremely biased member of the Left (got a mirror???) should be able to read and understand the quotations of the interview. Those, I evidently must tell you, are not opinions of anyone, except perhaps the people quoted. I hope a restutrant never serves you a nice wine in a glass you don't like....

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    PPJ, My comment was directed towards your limited choice of source material. Simply put (something I find myself having to do with you all too often) don't get upset when someone takes you to task for your lack of depth in your sources. As for the wine comment, if someone served me a fine wine in a glass as cracked as the Powerline guys, I'd send it back. I can be diplomatic, however. If you served me some of your favorite wine, I'd just ask for some olive oil and use it on the salad.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#25)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    Jim, You have blasted me for linking to Slate.com. I am LMFAO!

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    Randy - No. Don't kid us. You weren't. You SIMPLY saw the source and immediately attacked. I doubt you even read the link. BTW - The only source that has gotten me in trouble has been the Washington Post.... ;-) As for mistakes, I think the NYT is at least 3 to 0 ahead of Powerline.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    Roger - If I did you have my sympathy.. or something like that. Did YOU read the quotations?? And do they make sense?????

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    Sorry, Jim. but like most of your kennel, that dog won't hunt. Simply commenting on your knee-jerk use of Powerline. I did read the Statesman article, btw. Don't blame for your lack of breadth. As for your defense of Powerline and slur at the Times, well like so much of what you do it is offered without proof.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    And just to be clear, PPJ, if the contents of the article were so important to you, perhaps you should have linked directly to the article, instead of sending traffic to Hindrocket & Co.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#30)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    Jim, I actually did read it. Sounds like there will be a Motion to Dismiss count one (conspiracy), and they will figure out what to do about count two (laundering) later. Makes so much sense that I would file the same motion if Delay were my client. Not the best source to link to, but the substance of the quotes is fine. And yeah, you did slam me for Slate. Actually, at the time, I thought it was pretty funny.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    Roger - Guess I owe you a beer. Randy Paul writes:
    As for your defense of Powerline and slur at the Times, well like so much of what you do it is offered without proof.
    Well, let's see. Krugman twice and the made up stories.... At three I'm being generous. As for links, you know better. Count'em... Nope, you just got caught the way I got caught. Why not just grin and admit it?? And you can keep the beer.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#32)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:41 PM EST
    Jim, Personally, I'd love to see Delay locked up. As a defense lawyer, I'd take his case in a heartbeat. It's winnable too. Also losable. It's a lawyer thing.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    Randy Paul - Speaking of the New York Times, Krugman, etc. and errors. NYT announces new error policy.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted ... Again (none / 0) (#34)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    Regardless of the outcome of these indictments, politically it's over for Delay. He'll be lucky to get reelected the next time around. Personally I'm delighted to see this scumbag go down, it's long overdue. It's just too bad some lawyer can't file a motion to have him summarily executed on the spot for being a traitor to the United States of America. I want to watch him squeal and beg... what can I say he brings out the sadist in me.