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Tom DeLay Indicted

by TChris

According to radio reports and the "Breaking News" banner on cnn.com, Tom DeLay (hold your applause) has been indicted by a Texas grand jury on one count of criminal conspiracy. (Applause is now appropriate.) Updates will be posted as details become available.

The indictment is here (pdf). The charge carries a maximum sentence of two years.

First update: Here's the AP story. Note: several additional updates follow.

A Texas grand jury on Wednesday charged Rep. Tom DeLay and two political associates with conspiracy in a campaign finance scheme, an indictment that could force him to step down as House majority leader.

DeLay attorney Steve Brittain said DeLay was accused of a criminal conspiracy along with two associates, John Colyandro, former executive director of a Texas political action committee formed by DeLay, and Jim Ellis, who heads DeLay's national political committee.

Update (TL): MSNBC says the AP is reporting that Denny Hastert has named California Congressman David Dreier to replace DeLay as Speaker of the House.

Update (by TChris): DeLay steps down:

"I have notified the speaker that I will temporarily step aside from my position as majority leader pursuant to rules of the House Republican Conference and the actions of the Travis County district attorney today," DeLay said.

As noted above, Dennis Hastert is recommending David Dreier for the leadership role.

Some of the duties may go to the GOP whip, Rep. Roy Blunt of Missouri. The Republican rank and file may meet as early as Wednesday night to act on Hastert's recommendation.

Update (by TChris): President Bush assures us that he still considers his indicted friend to be "an effective leader in Congress." Perhaps DeLay will lead other Republicans to their own indictments. Scott McClellan joins the praise of indicted DeLay, calling him a "good ally" of the administration.

Here's one view of "what's at stake" now that this effective Republican leader has lost his majority leadership position. This LA Times article suggests that "even as Bush tries to recover from the political setbacks of the struggle in Iraq and the criticism of his administration's initial response to the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina, he is facing a third political storm front": Republican ethics.

Update (by TChris): In typical DeLay fashion, the initial response is a smear: "DeLay called [prosecutor] Earle an 'unabashed partisan zealot' and a 'fanatic.'" (Transcript here.) It turns out that this alleged partisan fanatic has pursued more Democrats than Republicans as he's prosecuted political corruption cases in Texas. See the comments to this post by webmacher. Similar information is reported here at Daily Kos.

Update (2 cents worth from LNILR; sorry TChris): Get three criminal defense lawyers involved in anything, and what do you get? We all have the innate longing, indeed, the compulsion, to devoutly work to preserve the presumption of innocence, yet we must tell our clients to "hold on to your ankles, because the worst is yet to come." Many are in denial and refuse to accept reality. Sounds like DeLay. I also note the oxymoron above: "Rebublican ethics." Okay, we give "them" the benefit of the doubt on that, too. I know a Republican or two, and they have ethics, impeccable ethics. They aren't in Congress, either. And, you don't see their hypocrisy on television every night. Particularly laughable was DeLay ranting about the partisan prosecutor. CNN.com: "'I have done nothing wrong,' DeLay told reporters. 'I have violated no law, no regulation, no rule of the House.'" What did you expect? A confession? More, and better: "'I have done nothing unlawful, unethical or, I might add, unprecedented,' DeLay said." So, it isn't a crime because others did it? Read the indictment. It reads like a money laundering indictment used to corrupt the political system in Texas and the U.S. House by manipulating the apportionment of the U.S. House of Representatives. Why is the U.S. Attorney not on it? The allegations sound like that should be a federal crime to me. But, the U.S. Attorney's a Republican. DeLay: "Check." Travis DA Earle: "Checkmate." With the feds in his back pocket, he couldn't control the state prosecutor. Mark Twain wrote in 1895 that "It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native criminal class except Congress." The Republicans have used government like their own private Monopoly game since Bush allowed them to run rampant. "What goes around comes around."

Republicans hate "trial lawyers." How many will the Exterminator hire? They hate us until they are on the back end of "State of Texas v. _____."

Update (by TChris): Next step: booking (fingerprints and mug shot). DeLay's lawyer, wisely enough, is trying to avoid the perp walk that most high profile defendants endure.

The linked article suggests that DeLay might pursue a speedy trial. That strategy worked for O.J., helping a well-prepared team catch prosecutors off guard. Earle has been working the case for a long time, and presumably knows it well; the same is probably true of DeLay's defense team. Whether a speedy trial would give DeLay a real advantage is unclear. It is clear, however, that DeLay's career is shot while he's burdened by this charge. He can only salvage his political life if he prevails, and he needs to do that quickly if his political life is to retain any vigor.

Update (by TChris): Dreier is apparently too bland for the Republican party, and Hastert too powerless to engineer his installation in DeLay's stead. Roy Blunt, a DeLay clone, has been chosen to replace DeLay. Meet the new boss ...

Like DeLay, Blunt has been dogged by ethics issues.

Update (by LNILR): As Talkleft noted above, DeLay's penchant for graft has led him to violate House rules and take lobbyist money for his legal defense. I'm sure that pleases the defense lawyers, so they can get paid, but it means that the House now has to bite the bullet and investigate that mess, too.

DeLay reminds me of the prison bully shived in the shower and mercilessly (or mercifully, depending on the shivee's predicament) allowed to bleed to death without calling for help. There are more justifiable forms of prison justice that come to mind that don't involve getting stabbed, but they do involve sticking things in the body. Now maybe DeLay will get on the bandwagon for prison reform and eliminating mandatory minimums.

Remember the movie "The Ref" (1994)?
"Connie Chasseur: Who would catch a criminal, and then let him go free? Mary Chasseur: Republicans."

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  • Display: Sort:
    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#1)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    'Bout time. Frist soon to follow? I'm awaiting the indictments next month for the Plame leak.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#2)
    by Peter G on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    Innocent until proven guilty. Or did he vote to repeal that? I hope the charge carries a mandatory minimum sentence that he helped enact. Friendly advice: let's urge him to retain Rep. Sensenbrenner as defense counsel. p.s. Does this mean I don't have to attend that Business Advisory Council Leadership dinner meeting that DeLay's telemarketing fundraisers are always calling my office about?

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    I'm trying hard not to gloat, but this indictment is richly deserved. It's a long road that has no turning, as they say--and what goes around, comes around--and other such sayings. I agree with Peter G: Let's hope for a long minimum sentence.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    As Delay himself said in his own defense, "people hate the messenger. That's why they killed Christ." The similarities between Tom and Jesus are striking...

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    Peter G and TChris, if you read the Indictment, it looks like DeLay, with advice of counsel, waived the Statute of Limitations on the conspiracy offense. Any idea why his lawyers would do that? Also, DeLay's lawyers brought him in to speak to the prosecutors in hopes of avoiding prosecution. This may be another reminder that trying to talk a DA or AUSA out of charging you with a crime rarely works, and often just results in having your statements used against you.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#6)
    by Peter G on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    TL: You answered your own question. There's only one reason, in my experience, why defense counsel stipulate to extend a criminal statute of limitations: because they are engaged in on-going "discussions" with the prosecutors (plea bargaining, that is), the statute is running out, and the prosecutor says, "Consent to an extension, or we indict tomorrow." Then, if negotiations break down (as they appear to have done here), you wind up with a stale but legal indictment.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    I hope they give him a fair trial and there's no politically motivated railroading. Oh, heck. Who am I trying to kid. BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#8)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    But what about Al Gore and those Bhuddist monks a few years ago? Ahem. Make way for Flay DeLay Day.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#9)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    434 to go ...

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    I'd put a lot more stock in this indictment is Earle wasn't the same clown that had his political attempts to go after Hutchinson derailed by the courts.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    Oh, J.R. my dear... Your "clown" has taken down a lot of corrupt Democrats... here's the whole hall of shame. U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, 1994: Acquitted of official misconduct and records tampering after Earle dropped the case during the trial. Former state Rep. Betty Denton, D-Waco, 1995: Sentenced to six months probation and fined $2,000 for listing false loans and contributions on campaign finance reports. Former state Rep. Lane Denton, D-Waco, 1995: Sentenced to 60 days in work-release program and six years probation, fined $6,000 and ordered to pay more than $67,000 restitution after being convicted of theft and misapplication of fiduciary property for funneling money from the Department of Public Safety Officers Association to a Denton company. House Speaker Gib Lewis, D-Fort Worth, 1992: In plea bargain, Earle dropped more serious charges when Lewis pleaded no contest to failing to disclose a business investment. Lewis was fined $2,000, and the judge said he took into consideration that Lewis was retiring from public office. Attorney General Jim Mattox, Democrat, 1985: Acquitted on felony bribery charges. Won re-election. State Rep. Mike Martin, R-Longview, 1982: Pleaded guilty to perjury after lying about having himself shot to gain publicity. Did not run for re-election. State Treasurer Warren Harding, Democrat, 1982: Pleaded no contest to official misconduct and dropped re-election bid. Texas Supreme Court Justice Don Yarbrough, Democrat, 1978: Sentenced to five years for lying to a grand jury and forgery. Gave up seat. My guess is that nothing would make you put stock in this indictment unless you got an insider's tip from Bill Frist.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    webmacher, encore, encore!! hell of a post. on the money and in the chips. one need only look at mr. delay's actual record, the scheming hyporcrite's littany of words, to have seen this one coming eventually. the better point is that at least the system still goes after such obvious malfeasance in the face of higher powers -- and the incumbent administration and congress. chickens, welcome home, please roost here.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    From the Houston Chronicle in 2003:
    During his long tenure, Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle has prosecuted many more Democratic officials than Republicans. The record does not support allegations that Earle is prone to partisan witch hunts. Furthermore, the argument that Earle should drop the investigation because of its high cost ill becomes a political party that supported the spending of tens of millions of dollars to investigate Bill and Hillary Clinton's failed real estate investment in Arkansas, with little result. Earle is investigating whether state Rep. Tom Craddick, a Republican, broke the rules in his race to become speaker of the Texas House. That investigation grew out of another begun to determine whether the Texas Association of Business and Texans for a Republican Majority illegally used corporate donations to influence Texas House races. The whole scandal came to light after the TAB bragged that it had used corporate donations to gain a Republican majority in the House. As proof of his evenhandedness, Earle has subpoenaed the records of former House Speaker Pete Laney, a Democrat, after Craddick's defenders suggested that Laney had behaved similarly.


    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    web, bury his brain at wounded wallet. scheming, crooked, AND loose-lipped. chickens, welcome home again, this time please come in the house and sit on my lap and peck me into infamous oblivion.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#15)
    by chupetin on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    The Swiftboating of Ronnie Earl has already started on MSNBC with Chris Mathews.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#16)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    Excuse me but isn't the indictment rooted in a GRAND JURY? Nice try Bugman.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    My favorite:
    State Rep. Mike Martin, R-Longview, 1982: Pleaded guilty to perjury after lying about having himself shot to gain publicity. Did not run for re-election.
    I wonder if he knew edger? Well, I said if you've got something, do it and quit talking and complaining. Looks like you're halfway there. Enjoy.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    1) The "he's gone after Democrats too" thing - look at the dates. Not in a long, long time he hasn't. Since 1995, he's been after one party exclusively 2) Read the indictment (link upstream in the comments). It's amazingly non-specific about anything Delay actually did. Almost as if it's a political expedition. 3) As to Delay waiving his rights on the statute of limitations - gee, to me, that sounds like he doesn't think he has anything to worry about. Now, I don't know Texas law. For all I know, the PAC in question violated campaign finance laws (which, like tax laws, have gotten complex enough that nearly everyone could be prosectued - it's too easy to accidentally miss something). Somehow, I suspect that a Republican DA going after a major Democrat would get a very different reception on this site - especially from TChris, who seems to grab his talking points hourly from Media Matters.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#19)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    DeLay is to a healthy American Body Politic what tapeworms are to intestines. Hold a hundred grand in cash up to the air vents to his office, he'll slither out hungry and ready to sell.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    have gotten complex enough that nearly everyone could be prosectued Really? keeping corporate dollars out of local elections too complex for ya?

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#21)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Somehow, I suspect that a Republican DA going after a major Democrat would get a very different reception on this site - especially from TChris, who seems to grab his talking points hourly from Media Matters.
    The Queen of Romania is annoyed.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Gee whiz what happened to the ethically minded reform Republicans of the 1990's.... I certainly hope the trial is televised.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    James Robertson, could you please:1)leave a number as to how many, I am supposing Republicans by the insinuation in your last post, Earle has gone after in the last 10 years;2)a brief synopsis of the case and it's outcome;3)and any other FACTS that help back up your assertion that this indictment is politically motivated.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Happy Freakin Birthday to Jeralyn!!! Happy Day for us ALL!! I'm thinking that just as we should have done with OBL, we need to do the gop, arrest and prosecute the lot of them. Peering out from behind prison bars kinda undermines ones legitimacy, don't you think? That might help purge their fascism from our midst, and leave whatever actual Republicans there are left back in control of their party, as damaged goods for letting these freaks co-opt them, but Republicans and Conservatives nonetheless. Because BushCo and Delay and Cheney and the Pseudo-Cons are not, and never have been, Republicans. Corporatists, thugs, bullies, narrow minded short sighted hypocrits, call 'em what you will, and I do, (and that isn't exclusionary between Republicans and the above), they're fanatics wedded to power and greed and their own inadequecy. Jail's a good place for them.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#25)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Have a happy, JM!

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#26)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Oops, wrong thread...

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    No, this is her Birthday Present thread, aka, Bugman Indictment!

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#28)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Haha, yeah, he's innocent, JR! Somebody defend this nice man! Free Bugman!

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#29)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Don't know the truth in this, but I have to admit that "I have done nothing unlawful" sounds too much like "There is no controlling legal authority".

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Can't they find any sex to drag into this indictment? I'm not enjoying it as much as I know I could.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#31)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Charley, Now I'll explain it so even you can understand it. The indictments are generated by a GROUP OF PEOPLE known as a GRAND JURY. Emergency! Foreign body in rectum!!!

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#32)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    The indictments are generated by a GROUP OF PEOPLE known as a GRAND JURY.
    Bear in mind, Che, that you're talking to a Republican - the kind of person who watches a jury decide upon a settlement and then blames a lawyer. Otherwise known as a barking mad lunatic.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Also, don't miss Abramov getting his shoes into the cement in a BIG way:
    Breaking news out of Florida Talking Points Memo: Two men, Anthony Ferrari and Anthony Moscatiello, arrested in the gangland killing of erstwhile Abramoff business partner Gus Boulis.... (Update): Here's a timeline from the WaPo. From Eric: Jack Abramoff and his partner Adam Kidan owed $23 million to Gus Boulis, and ... Abramoff and Kidan paid mobster Anthony Moscatiello $145,000 (allegedly "for food and beverage consulting and other services").
    Murder for hire. Tough time -- and he deserves every minute of it.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Volume over brains? Why, charley, who knew you looked in the mirror? Wasn't it Tom DeLay who accepted Communist Chinese MONEY and put it into a federal election? Who met with the Chinese guy for two hours, and then announced that he didn't know who the money was from because he DOESN'T SPEAK CHINESE? That Tom DeLay -- what a champion of corruption that knows no country.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    charley, citations please for this alleged diatribe Earle gave at a fundraiser. I would like to know where this fundraiser was held, when, and whether or not you have a transcript available to refer back to and not just repeating allegations gleaned from "right wing knuckle draggers". Also, Delay has been about as prole like as William F. Buckley in the last few years, which is to say NOT! The majority of his time has been spent within the Beltway and on $75,000.00 "working vacations", so please stop with the lame "this guy is a part of the people you stand up for" straw men and stick to the facts. Fundraiser diatribe by Earle now or STFU!

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#36)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    ShermBuck, here's the offending quote that has charley's undies in a twist:
    "This case is not just about Tom DeLay. If it isn't this Tom DeLay, it'll be another one, just like one bully replaces the one before," Earle said. "This is a structural problem involving the combination of money and power," he added. "Money brings power and power corrupts."


    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#37)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:25 PM EST
    Scars, do you think that a grand jury is the equivalent to a petit jury? if so, I suggest you locate a Black's Law Dictionary and do some reading. it will prevent you from showing your lack of knowledge too obviously in the future.
    Yeah, because that's clearly exactly what I said: "the grand jury is equal to a petit jury". I wasn't alluding to a general sort of magical philosophy that Republicans seem to have about juries, i.e. evil trial lawyers set cash awards and DA's control grand juries. No, nothing of the sort. Cripes.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#38)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:26 PM EST
    Charley, LOL. I'd respond if you had a point. Besides the one on the top of your head, that is.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#39)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:26 PM EST
    Che, PinLA, Soccerdad, et al, can we please keep the discourse a bit more civil. I'm guilty too, but there is no reason to respond to a personal attack when the facts alone will make our points.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:26 PM EST
    Play it as it lays, Sailor. Charley is an outright troll. I for one will not sit back while these liars and toadies come around and derrail the issue. Moderates may not like such hostility, but I don't much like people shouting Kill Them All in my face. One major problem with moderates and moderation is that they ignore, conveniently or through delusion, the obvious until they are sleeping with the fishes. We are LONG past the rule of moderates in this country, and well into Americans fighting with extremists who are trying to dismantle the country though treason, lies, blanket corruption, assassinations, vote-fraud, illegal invasions, conspiracy, totalitarianism, and racism (etc.). *Please make a note of it.*

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:26 PM EST
    1) The indictment is a marvel. It doesn't actually give any details on what Delay supposedly did. I'm not saying he's innocent; he may well be guilty. But this indictment is of the famous "ham sandwich" variety 2) Still wondering when TChris will take note of the dumpster diving Schumer aids, and start asking if there are dots that connect to Schumer.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#42)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:26 PM EST
    Sailor, You're right it's a WOT.

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#43)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:26 PM EST
    Apologies to all for being OT. PinLA, I'm not talking about the outside, I'm talking about being a guest in someone elses virtual abode. Be angry, use it to make points, I would just recommend that we don't stoop to name calling. It's just too easy, and non-productive. The higher road can work if you are right and refuse to stoop to individual distractions. (I wish I could always take my own advice, but I'm working on it;-)

    Re: Tom DeLay Indicted (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    I just don't agree with you, Sailor. The high road is the fools road when we are being RAPED. Sidney Blumenthal spoke of his uncles, who, far from taking the high road, broke up Klan meetings in Chicago swinging lead pipes. And there is the famous Rabbi who reportedly said: ;If we knew in 1933 what we know now, we wouldn't have been praying in our synogogues, we would have been in the street fighting with whatever weapons we could find.; Since this fight is nonviolent, it doesn't have lead pipes and the like. It occasionally uses harsh language, and you know what? That is probably not enough. Let me remind you of what a very evil b*stard said, not long ago: "Anything less than putting snipers on the roof of Washington D.C. would be an underreaction by the liberals." -- Traitor Grover Norquist