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Oil Profits

By TChris, Section Huricanes Katrina and Rita
Posted on Wed Sep 21, 2005 at 08:01:21 AM EST
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by TChris

An economics professor believes oil companies gouged consumers when gas prices soared in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Eight governors have asked the oil president to investigate his oily industry buddies:

"When the wholesale price of gas went up by 60 cents almost overnight, oil companies were obviously using the most devastating natural disaster in our nation's history to reap a windfall at the expense of American consumers," said the letter, which was initiated by Gov. James E. Doyle of Wisconsin and was signed by governors from Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Montana, New Mexico, Oregon and Washington.

The governors would also like Congress to enact legislation requiring the oil companies to disgorge their excessive profits.

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    Oil Profits | 30 comments (30 topical)
    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:08 PM EST
    Not to mention the insurance money they got to make them whole from the Gulf Disaster. Two wholes make a....and this little piggy had roast beef and ran all the way home.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:08 PM EST
    I actually read an editorial from a free market extremist who said there is no such thing as price gouging. Oil companies have a responsibility to charge as high a price as they can get away with. Further proof that extremism of any type ain't cool. The oil co's need to be regulated again.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:08 PM EST
    (9/21/05)Toon of the Day: $1 Billion Worth of Iraqi Accountability

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:08 PM EST
    Meanwhile, TL, Media Matters (et. al.) just take the money that Soros gets from market manipulation and move along. No hypocrisy there. When you actually understand the whole supply/demand thing, let the rest of us know.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#5)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    Disallowing "gouging" is a form of theft. The oil belongs to them until they sell it. They can sell it for $10 per gallon, swim in it, use it to slick back their hair, or have the mother of all camp fires. Besides, high prices encourage conservation.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#6)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    Standard wingnut responses: #32) Attack the person. #41) Construct a strawman. Try dealing with the issue instead of insults, lies and distractions. The oil companies/distributors raised prices on gas they already had paid for and was in stock. They are all making record profits and still getting tax breaks. profiteering in (as all the wrongwingers insist) a time of war is treason. Why, the rethugs love profiteering so much, the stripped an anti profiteering clause out of the iraq supplemental budget.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#7)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    Every station in my area goes up the same amount and down the same amount over night. 20 miles up the road they do the same thing except they have a 8 cent downward offset. That isn't a fair market, that is price fixing.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    roy-And we can invade any fu*king country that we chose to own. Imagine those deluded countries thinking that they can do whatever they want to with their own oil and get away with it. Greedy bastar*s think they can escape imperial design. We are NUMBER 1 and the only Superpower around. BTW- Market forces are at work with the unregulated 'defense' industry as well.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#9)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    When you actually understand the whole supply/demand thing, let the rest of us know.
    Why don't you explain the whole supply/demand "thing" during the Rape of California in 2001.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    "Every station in my area goes up the same amount and down the same amount over night. 20 miles up the road they do the same thing except they have a 8 cent downward offset." Astounding. You might think that there was a supply problem affecting all the sellers, or something.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    desert - Let me explain this to you. 1. The state of CA deregulated the wholesale cost of electricity. 2. The state of CA kept retail prices regulated. Then the state then decided to get in the electrical power purchasing business. Guess what happened. The same bunch of highly intelligent people who brought you the problem got snookered by Enron. TANSTAAFL – THERE AINT NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH. Let me ask you this. If you were selling widgets and couldn't raise your sales prices when your material suppliers raised their prices.... What do you think would happen? Come on, try. You got it! First you would reduce the number you would sell because you would be losing money on each one. That would cost a shortage. If the shortage didn't convince the widget regulators to let you raise prices, you would just go bankrupt. sailor writes:
    The oil companies/distributors raised prices on gas they already had paid for and was in stock
    When you sell what you have in stock, it must be replaced by higher priced inventory. The new stock must be paid for with profits, or else by borrowing money for inventory. If you had a business, which would you prefer? So the price goes up immediately to produce the money (profit) needed to buy the new inventory. When the price falls, the existing inventory has already been paid for, so you don't have to worry about holding a high price to recover your cost. et al - And who, may I ask, brought this on by their opposition to nuclear power, demanding that coal powered plants be shut down, wouldn't allow drilling off our coasts, fought (still are) ANWAR and have successfully prevented new refineries being built for the past 30 years? You guessed it! The Left and their buddies in the Wacko Environmentalist organizations. Congratulations!

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    Of course it was CA's fault ... not:
    The tapes, from Enron's West Coast trading desk, also confirm what CBS reported years ago: that in secret deals with power producers, traders deliberately drove up prices by ordering power plants shut down.
    Next!
    Astounding. You might think that there was a supply problem affecting all the sellers, or something.
    Yes, every company, nat'l and internat'l all had exactly the same idea at the same time. Not even the airlines are that much in lockstep. Kool-aid! Now with more petroleum distillates!
    When you sell what you have in stock, it must be replaced by higher priced inventory.
    Of course, that's why you see all those clerks at supermarkets running up and down the aisles changing the prices as the price of the next delivery goes up;-)

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    the award for "the only person that made sense here" goes to JimakkaPPA

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#14)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    You guessed it! The Left and their buddies in the Wacko Environmentalist organizations. Congratulations!
    Haha.. that makes me laugh. Jeez, I can save 30 seconds a day by not reading your sarcastic, petulant, and childish commenting.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#15)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    I can't believe that any one here would actually defend the oil companies. What incredible insanity. JR says if someone defrauds you, it's your own fault. Jim says oil is like a widget and tries to reduce complex market manipulations into 3rd grade math. The truth is there is NO SHORTAGE OF GASOLINE. Un f***ing believable.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    Sailor - My point wasn't that the oil companies are wonderful do gooders. They aren't. My point is that CA played right into their hands, dumb as a dodo, with silly regulations and an energy building program which is, basically, Not In My Backyard. So yeah, we can zap Enron, you must know of my agreement for maximum punishment, but that doesn't change the root cause: We aren't producing enough energy and haven't been for 40 years. And yes, the Left is largely to blame for that. BTW - I have no idea if traders could order power plants shut down. I don't think ENRON had any plants, what they, supposedly were doing was swapping demand/excess. i.e. Joe has 12, needs 8. John has 6 needs 10. Enron matches Joe and John, making money from both. So I'd have to have a ton of evidence to believe such. Because you don't just shut plants down, take'em off line, etc. It isn't that simple, as I suspect you know. desert - Where do you think energy comes from, the Easter Bunny?

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    Posted by James Robertson at September 21, 2005 10:09 AM Meanwhile, TL, Media Matters (et. al.) just take the money that Soros gets from market manipulation and move along.
    Okay, James, let's have your evidence that TL has taken ANY money from George Soros. You have libeled the blog host. Put up your evidence, or apologize.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#18)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    I don't defend fraud, but I do defend the right of the owner to change his asking price based on increased demand, speculation on supply problems, or whim.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    roy-especially when "the owner" it is subsidised by your tax dollars.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#20)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    I also don't defend corporate welfare. I'm banging the Free Market drum a lot lately because I see the Republicans dishonestly claiming to promote "free market" or "small government" when they're really just practicing corporate welfare or shifting tax money to their buddies. Then I see the Democrats point out how the Republicans' approach doesn't work so well, and they blame "free market" and "small government". Meanwhile, anybody who talks about real "free market" or "small government" is discredited because so many people equate those terms with the Republicans' mis-labeled, failed projects.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    roy-If only we could have and ideal 'ism' of some kind. They all seem to work so well in theory.It is just that people are messy and can't help but to f**k up a good thing. Remember the Garden of Eden? Those were the days.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#22)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:10 PM EST
    But how did we know how much we enjoyed the fruit in the Garden without a price tag on it? (Making fun of Free Marketism in apology for hijacking the thread -- all done)

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:10 PM EST
    et al - As oil prices climb and profits surge on a decrease in supply, the ususal suspects - Demos and wacko enviromentalists, namely Sen Clinton - spoke out yesterday on drilling in ANWAR. Who love's ya, baby? Certainly not the Demos and friends.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:10 PM EST
    "Okay, James, let's have your evidence that TL has taken ANY money from George Soros." This is an interesting (yet irrelevant) question, actually, though I doubt the accusation could be proven to be libelous (sp?). For example, has TL taken any paid advertising from any Soros-sponsored entities? Regardless, any business can raise or lower it's prices for any/all/no reasons. However, if the oil co's raised their prices in collusion, now that would be illegal.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#25)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:10 PM EST
    Sorry SUO, you lose! This thread was about bushco and friends making money on a disaster they didn't initially respond to. Next!!!
    if the oil co's raised their prices in collusion, now that would be illegal.
    Well, duh. Please , please ask me for links.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:10 PM EST
    PPJ...how will drilling in ANWAR affect gas prices? The Dept of Energy says less than ONE cent a gallon decrease, 20 YEARS from now!
    the award for "the only person that made sense here" goes to JimakkaPPA
    Get this one a life preserver...their feet are floating in BS.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:10 PM EST
    Ernesto - You might provide some links on that, but even if true we'll need the oil 20 years from now, and if just holds the price steady it will be a huge benefit. Ernie, where do you think energy comes from, the Easter Bunny?

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#29)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:11 PM EST
    Sailor, you are one crazy cat! I responded on this thread to a question PIL asked on this thread. Perhaps you should flail wildly at the initiator? Next!! Oh yes, please, please give me some links. What you don't seem to be able to grasp is that if there is evidence that the oil co's broke the law, I say investigate and prosecute. Pretty much my stance on all illegal activity. Duh. It's been fun!

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#30)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:11 PM EST
    PPJ...it will not hold the price steady. The U.S. has only 3 percent of the world's reserves and the price is set at the world market where many other counties have greater reserves and lower production costs. Conservation and new technology is a much more important way to ease oil dependency:
    Updating fuel efficiency standards to reflect the capabilities of modern technology would produce even greater savings. Increasing fuel efficiency standards for new passenger vehicles and trucks to an average of 40 miles per gallon over the next decade would save 60 billion barrels of oil over the next 50 years -- 11 times the likely yield from the Arctic Refuge.
    Link It's time to find 21st century solutions to replace a 19th century energy source.

    Re: Oil Profits (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:12 PM EST
    Et al.... Anyone old enough to remember the "carburator" from the 60's that allowed regular old V-8 engines to get over 100MPG? It was supposedly bought by the oil companies and then shelved? Anyone?

    Oil Profits | 30 comments (30 topical)