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Election Reform Proposed

By TChris, Section Elections
Posted on Mon Sep 19, 2005 at 08:01:48 AM EST
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by TChris

This proposition is so sensible that we can expect the right wing to ridicule it:

"We should have an electoral system," the [Commission on Federal Election Reform] declared, "where registering to vote is convenient, voting is efficient and pleasant, voting machines work properly, fraud is deterred and disputes are handled fairly and expeditiously."

In a report that will be delivered to Congress today, a commission chaired by Jimmy Carter and James A. Baker III recommends a number of election reforms. The most important recommendation is this:

Electronic voting machines should make paper copies for auditing.

The most controversial is likely to be this:

In presidential election years, after the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primaries, the other states should hold regional primaries and caucuses at monthly intervals in March, April, May and June, with the order rotated.

The latter proposal is designed to enhance voter participation and to make primaries more meaningful for voters who live in states that vote after the primary winner has effectively been decided.

In the 2004 campaign, state primaries and caucuses were held earlier than ever, and the nominees were effectively chosen by March. Everything happens so quickly nowadays in primary campaigns, the commission asserted, that "most Americans have no say in the selection of presidential nominees."

The commission said it was worthwhile for Iowa and New Hampshire to continue to vote first because "they test the candidates by genuine retail, door-to-door campaigning." But four regional contests afterward, the panel said, would "expand participation in the process" and "give voters the chance to closely evaluate the presidential candidates over a three- to four-month period."

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    Election Reform Proposed | 18 comments (18 topical)
    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Why would anyone ridicule that? The main complaint the right has with various voter initiatives is that they make fraud easier without raising the number of voters. Personally, I think we should relax ID requirements but then require people to use the same kinds of thumbprint-ink thing that they used in Afghanistan.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#2)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Electronic voting machines should indeed create a paper trail for audit purposes, but that this is considered to be "the most important recommendation" in this report is reason enough to ridicule it. Creating a paper trail is meaningless if we don't first ensure that the votes cast are legal, valid votes. The first and most important step in election reform is to clean up the voter rolls to get rid of all the dead people and those who are registered in more than one precinct. The second, but equally important, step is to require positive identification of every individual who attempts to cast a vote, to ensure that they are a citizen, that they are entitled to vote, and that they are in fact the person in whose name they are casting their ballot. Only then will it make any sense to be concerned about a paper trail for audit purposes, as only then will we have even a limited chance to hold an honest election in which the people can effectively register their choice, minus the kind of fraud that has become so commonplace that it's not even considered worth mentioning anymore.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#3)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    It would seem that some sort of positive ID AND a paper trail would be necessary for any kind of valid election. Without one, there is not much point for the other

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Michael Heinz, the right will fight it because it makes it easier for Democrats to vote. "Fighting fraud" is the cover the Repubs fly under when they make voting in Democratic districts inconvenient--e.g., legislating a state photo ID requirement and then closing drivers license bureaus in Democratic precincts. Sending pollwatchers to Democratic CDs with orders to challenge everyone possible--the voters may survive the challenge, but it sure makes the lines a lot longer. Sending a mob out to Florida to interfere with a presidential vote count. You may have noticed that when it comes to paper copies or other verification methods on voting machines--which would certainly curtail fraud--the Repubs complain that it's too expensive.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#5)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    The right cheats by suppressing legal votes. The left cheats by facilitating illegal votes.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#6)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Charley, During the last election, I spent all day poll watching. Your "urban myth" was reality. Do you enjoy the koolaid?

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#7)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    " look to areas such as Seattle where there have been documented fraudulent occurrences-guess what party runs things" You mean the repub Sec of State that certified the election? OR the republican judge that upheld the election? As opposed to florida where a repub sec of State was ALSO bush campaign manager and struck eligible voters from the rolls who just happened to be almost exclusively democrat. Or the Ohio repub sec of state who just happened to be a bush campaign manager and didn't supply machines in enough numbers to poor and black areas. Where illegal fund raising is still resulting in guilty pleas. Where the sheer graft and theft of public monies by rnc operatives is still unraveling.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#8)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Sailor, Dont confuse Charley with the facts. He only is capable of repeating the party line.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#9)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Why don't we vote by text messaging? It seems to work for American Idol. Who really thinks any such voting reform would have a significant lasting postive effect? The Commission's report and any actions that follow it may give some people a feeling of having done something, but will have as little practical impact as wearing plastic wristbands has had on stopping genocide in Dafur.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#10)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Oooh! Koolaid! Yum!

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    The massive electronic vote-fraud that has removed the recount rights of thirty states is the main problem in the US voting system. The rest is blather. Dead people voting? Republican Bush-backers used every dead person they could find in 2004. It's not a partisan issue. Posted by charley: "no fraud found in Ohio despite the urban legends." You are a LIAR TWO Cuyahoga county election officials have already been INDICTED, and the Grand Jury is still sitting.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    The Carter-Baker committee is a whitewash. Carter, for all his virtues, is easily controlled. Baker is a past master at this sort of fake Federal finger-wagging.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    Imagine the mess our election system would be if more than half the people voted! Personally, I see it as a lesser of two evils type argument. A fraudulent or invalid vote is a lesser evil than a lawful vote being rejected.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#14)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    A fraudulent or invalid vote is a lesser evil than a lawful vote being rejected.
    Each fraudulent or invalid vote pretty much cancels out a lawful vote.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    Each fraudulent or invalid vote pretty much cancels out a lawful vote.
    Not if they voted for the same person.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    Without ANY audit of elections in thirty states, 'fake' votes have been added IN THE MILLIONS. Votes are SWAPPED inside the machines, and in most precincts, VOTING COMPANY WORKERS are allowed to swap votes and move vote blocks, with ZERO accountability. The whole canard about 'illegal voters' is just that -- a dodge. And if you don't know that's why the trolls are here, you aren't paying attention.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#17)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    Each fraudulent or invalid vote pretty much cancels out a lawful vote.
    Not if they voted for the same person.
    If we could get everybody to vote for the same candidate, we wouldn't have to worry about vote fraud.

    Re: Election Reform Proposed (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:37 PM EST
    Eh, rather than complaining about which party finangles best (or worst, depending which way you look at it), why not just campaign in a bipartisan kind of way for a voting system where everyone's vote gets counted, voting is fast and easy, the results can be publicly verified as accurate, and everyone who's entitled to vote is allowed to vote. That under such an electoral system Bush certainly wouldn't have been appointed President in 2000 may irritate Bush loyalists who are certain he performed better than Al Gore would have done had he been allowed to take up the office he was elected to, but to anyone actually interested in fair and free elections, the policy of having fair and free elections in the US has got to look appealling. Some of the significant problems with US politics arise from it still being the beta version, but quite a lot of them come along with the fact that it's taken for granted the polls can and will be fixed.

    Election Reform Proposed | 18 comments (18 topical)