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Guantanamo: Starving for Justice

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Mon Sep 19, 2005 at 05:23:51 AM EST
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The Minnesota Daily has an editorial today on the hunger strike at Guantanamo:

About a quarter of the detainees in Guantanamo Bay are engaged in a hunger strike, and 18 prisoners are being force-fed through tubes or intravenously after about a month of not eating. The prisoners are protesting the frightening reality that detainees have gone three years without trials.

....While morality and ethics are abstract ideas, justice is more concrete, hence why there are laws. Guantanamo and the actions that have been taken by our government against the detainees violate the Geneva convention, the Bill of Rights, and our Constitution. Justice is not merely a conditional idea.

The conclusion, which undoubtedly will fall on deaf ears:

The current hunger strike should imbue a sense of urgency in being critical of human rights violations conducted by the U.S. government.

Don't miss George Hunsinger's, a frequent reader and occasional commenter on TalkLeft, latest op-ed on the detainees, The Rights of Detainees: Who Is Protecting Whom From What?

Just before the August congressional recess, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) at the urging of the White House, prevented a Senate vote on legislation that would forbid the cruel, degrading, and inhuman treatment of prisoners. Equally disturbing, the White House blocked the court-ordered release of further photos from the Abu Ghraib prison. According to Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), the images show evidence of "rape and murder." Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has said that these photos depict "acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel, and inhuman."

Pentagon officials oppose the release of these photographs, arguing that they would inflame the Muslim world and put the lives of American soldiers at risk. Whether the Pentagon is equally concerned about accountability for the abuses themselves, however, is far from clear.

Meanwhile, the president threatens to veto the Senate military appropriations bill if it contains an amendment by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) banning cruel, degrading, and inhuman treatment of prisoners, or an amendment by Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) that would set up a 9/11-style commission to investigate abuses like the ones captured in the suppressed photos.

Are we still looking at a "few bad apples"? Or at the cover-up of a hidden culture (or subculture) of torture? As the Pew Research Center poll suggests, an increasing number of Americans are beginning to ask: Who is protecting whom from what?

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    Guantanamo: Starving for Justice | 19 comments (19 topical)
    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#1)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    From George Hunsinger's article
    What the government is authorized do to the few, it can eventually do to the many. Brushing aside constitutional limits jeopardizes the rule of law. A government that takes off its gloves, cautioned British statesman Edmund Burke, will not soon put them on again. "Criminal means, once tolerated," he wrote, "are soon preferred."
    This is why we should all be worried. As the Padilia case shows American Citizens are not immune from the abrogation of their rights. Today its American "terrorists", tomorrow in their "supporters". Amd as posters here at TL have made clear, those who voice their opposition to the war would be considered "supporters". Today we'll deploy the military to help with natural diasters, tomorrow its to help with other types of national "emergencies". Freedoms are never lost all at once, its a "brick by brick" method andsoon there is nothing left to protect you.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#2)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    looks like we have become what we have traditionally fought against. People used to ask where were the "good germans", in the near future, they will ask "where were the good americans". You can stand up and be counted now, or be a subject of "debushification" later. We are the war criminals. Some will say "Roger, why do you hate America?" I dont, I hate what the Bushies are doing to it.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Roger as a good german i say shot the lot of the rats until we get more, shot the next ones on tv and let the little PEOPLE See what's next, and next use the, H-BOMBS. it will save people from the draft here, is that not a great idea?..or what? and gunatanamo is like most u.s. prisons so what are you yelling about? in fact most prisoners would love to go to gunatanamo for the great Food. so remember shot all the prisoners and be done with it for now!

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#4)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Standard Wingnut Responses: 1) personal attack, e.g. 'moral bankruptcy' 2) strawman e.g. ' the insanity of the policy of releasing folks to take up arms against one again' What do wrongwingers have against the concept of a fair trial?

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Not to mention fair elections. They fear that they wouldn't win either one.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Apparently, charley's got all the evidence of terrorist activities amongst the prisoners. Feel like sharing charley since our govt. will not? If the prisoners have committed terrorist acts, I'd like them to remain locked up. All I ask for is some proof.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#7)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Charley, You got this one right. Real terrorists are being released, while shepards are still locked up. This is exactly why we have our legal system. Maybe we should actually use it.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#8)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Charley, Someone ought to lock you up for three years without a trial and see if you aren't pissed off. Because BEFORE they were incarcerated they were no more than draftees, not terrorists (a label unproven, like all else). To quote you, "I Just know it."

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#9)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Ideally, they should have already received a trial, but how do you give them a fair trial with a jury of their peers? Their only peers that we know of are in one of these prisons or in Iraq still. If we send them back to Iraq for a trial, then how do we know they dont just put them right back out there to fight us. If we try them here it's our word against theirs with a jury of Americans who have no idea what it's like in Iraq. The only Americans that know anything about Iraq are either military or contractors and trust me when I say that they wont get a fair trial from either of those groups. Evidence against them, in many cases, is reports written about what happened when they got captured. A lot of them will say how much they love America when it benefits them and then spit on you and call you infadels once you let them go.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Charley's racism makes it easier to pre-judge the people in Guantanamo -- no actual court required. The same for Bush.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#11)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    This article hits the nail on the head, as all who have fought for freedom, Justice and civil rights can tell you, if you can deprive some of justice and basic human rights, it's just a matter of time before you can deprive anyone of those vital protections. To those conservatives who feel that there's nothing wrong with holding people indefinitely and giving them no recourse but to martyr themselves; ask yourself, are you really comfortable arguing against basic democratic principles? Are you willing to give up your own freedom and guarantees of justice for some semblance of security that is little more than an illusion? These questions beg more direct ones that might appeal more viscerally to your patriotic leanings; "Whose side are you on son? Don't you love your country? Then how about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#12)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Aaron:
    "Whose side are you on son? Don't you love your country? Then how about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
    were you ever a drill sgt?

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Obviously you're not a Kubrick fan, peacre.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:04 PM EST
    Posted by charley at September 19, 2005 08:48 AM want to talk moral bankruptcy-release more of the lovelies of Gitmo to kill in other countries. it cleanses your conscience and there is no real risk to you. the insanity of the policy of releasing folks to take up arms against one again makes perfect sense in leftland.
    Or we could go your route and get medieval on their asses, bring back the torture chambers and the dungeons. We can start up ye old king's dungeon over there in Gitmo, bring back the public gibbet...christ man, didn't you ever realize that the rule of law was implemented for a damn reason?

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:05 PM EST
    et al - Hate to bring this up, but there have been more than 500, probably more than that since the information linked is dated 12/20/04, and we have captured more and we released some, and some, about ten, have been killed and/or recaptured will fighting against us. Undoubtedly many more of the released are fighting, but haven't beeen recaptured or killed, yet.
    Combatant Status Review Tribunals, that is the determination if someone is or is not an enemy combatant. So it strictly is or is not an enemy combatant; that's the only determination made by those boards. And if an EC -- that is, if an enemy combatant -- then detained, and then they're scheduled for an administrative review board. So administrative review boards' annual review, they determine if someone should continue to be detained after a determination of an enemy combatant status. So they're the two boards and I'll give you a status of where we are, this time at the end of this year. So as of this morning, we have conducted 507 CSRT tribunals. So we've had hearings for 507 tribunals or for 507 detainees as of this morning. There's always interest how many detainees appear at these tribunals. Two hundred and ninety-two of the 507 detainees have participated in the hearings. Now we still have about 50 hearings to be conducted..
    Link So what we have are people who have been tried and found to be an EC, "Starving for Justice." I say they have had justice, so let'em starve. SD writes:
    Today we'll deploy the military to help with natural diasters, tomorrow its to help with other types of national "emergencies".
    An excellent point. And we can thank the Demos and the Left for demanding the expansion of this by demanding a faster response and criticizing the Feds, whose natural, and accurate, response will be that they must be in control if they are to react faster and accept responsibility. We should remember that happiness is wanting what you get.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:05 PM EST
    Fenria writes:
    We can start up ye old king's dungeon over there in Gitmo, bring back the public gibbet..
    Not that you will believe it, but the investigation into the charges at Gitmo found:
    no evidence of torture or inhumane treatment ...cover a three year period and over 24,000 interrogations....found only three interrogations... in violation of... authorized (techniques)
    This link is in PDF, so if you don't have it, go to Adobe and download your free read only copy. Link Now the three shouldn't have happened. But I submit that 3 out of over 24,000 is a very, very, very, good average.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    Jim: "We should remember that happiness is wanting what you get." We? You aren't a we, Jim. You're a THEM. The racist says that the detainees are getting justice. Why don't you admit that you think that all the 130,000+ dead Iraqis got 'justice,' eh? And then you can just go back to BUTT-LICKING your fellow racists.

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    So what we have are people who have been tried and found to be an EC
    Reeeeeealy!? tried? by who? Provide links that all of the detainees have had a trial according to the GenCon. "enemy combatant" and "illegal combatant" do not exist in the GenCon, they are constructs by bushco. Tho it is funny to know that Kool-Aid drinkers swallow;-)

    Re: Guantanamo: Starving for Justice (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:11 PM EST
    Tell me, JimakaPPJ, why do you bother repeating and repeating these easily-disproved lies? You know that not one of the people currently imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay have been "tried": most of them have not even had charges brought against them. Do you hope that a newbie to TalkLeft will think you know what you're talking about, or do you just get a personal satisfaction out of repeating what you know isn't true?

    Guantanamo: Starving for Justice | 19 comments (19 topical)