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War Protestors Go On Trial in NY

By TChris, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sun Sep 18, 2005 at 09:54:20 AM EST
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by TChris

Four protestors poured their blood over an Army recruiting center in Ithaca, New York in 2003. They hoped recruits would think about the blood -- Iraqi and American -- that they would be destined to shed if they enlisted.

The protestors were charged with felony malicious mischief. Refusing a plea bargain, they went to trial in 2004. A judge who understood the historic role that juries play as a check against the government's power allowed the protestors to explain their motivations when they testified. As a result, the jury deadlocked 8-4 for acquittal.

What should have ended as a symbolic victory for peace -- the prosecutor didn't have the stomach to try the case again after the jury hung -- instead resulted in a federal prosecution. The four Catholic Worker activists will go on trial again Monday, where they face a maximum sentence of six years in prison.

The federal prosecution is a waste of resources. One jury has already spoken, and the minor damage caused is out of proportion to the serious consequences of a federal prosecution. Is the administration "making a federal case out of it" because it wants to squelch protest?

The key quesion in the second trial is whether the judge will give the defendants the same latitude to explain their actions to the jury. He should, despite the prosecution's likely argument that the law is the law, and it doesn't matter why they chose to break it.

Juries act as the circuit-breaker between the desire of the government to punish and the actual infliction of punishment. Juries have the authority to nullify an abuse of that power. Juries play a critical function in a democracy by bringing the will of the people into the courtroom -- particularly in federal court, where judges aren't elected.

But juries can't play that role if they don't know why the defendants acted as they did. The defendant's right to tell his or her story is at the heart of the right to testify and to have a jury determine guilt. If the defendants are to have a fair trial, and if the legal system is to work in its intended manner, the protestors should be given a chance to explain their actions to the jury that considers their fate.

Better yet, the prosecutors should bow to the will of the last jury and dump this case. Surely they have more serious crimes to worry about.

< Poor Planning and Oversight Slows Rebuilding of Iraq | Rove Off the Record >

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    War Protestors Go On Trial in NY | 28 comments (28 topical)
    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    TChris:
    Is the administration "making a federal case out of it" because it wants to squelch protest?
    Why do we keep making the same dumba** mistakes? Wouldn't it be easier to just f***ing grow up? Kent State, May 4, 1970: America Kills Its Children
    Twenty-five years ago this month, students came out on the Kent State campus and scores of others to protest the bombing of Cambodia-- a decision of President Nixon's that appeared to expand the Vietnam War. Some rocks were thrown, some windows were broken, and an attempt was made to burn the ROTC building. Governor James Rhodes sent in the National Guard. The units that responded were ill-trained and came right from riot duty elsewhere; they hadn't had much sleep. The first day, there was some brutality; the Guard bayonetted two men, one a disabled veteran, who had cursed or yelled at them from cars. The following day, May 4th, the Guard, commanded with an amazing lack of military judgment, marched down a hill, to a field in the middle of angry demonstrators, then back up again. Seconds before they would have passed around the corner of a large building, and out of sight of the crowd, many of the Guardsmen wheeled and fired directly into the students, hitting thirteen, killing four of them, pulling the trigger over and over, for thirteen seconds...
    "...as far as I can tell, we've gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is for more of the same. [...] It is a nervous thing to consider: Not just four [three] more years of Nixon [Bush?], but Nixon's [Bush's?] last four [three] years in politics - completely unshackled, for the first time in his life, from any need to worry about who might or might not vote for him the next time around." ...Hunter S. Thompson
    Those who won't learn from history, etc., etc.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    So TChris - tell you what. You give me your address, and I'll come by and leave a "symbolic" statement. Of course, you won't press charges, because it wouldn't be right. Which part of vandalism are you confused by?

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#3)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    Which part of vandalism are you confused by?
    Well, certainly not the part where it's used as a threat to squash dissent. That part is abundantly clear. It's not like it's never been done before.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    It became a federal case when the local slug of a DA "mentioned" it to the Feds because he knew he'd never get a local jury to convict.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#5)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    These were "Catholic" protesters? Come on Paul from LA and your ilk, let's see some bigotry in your remarks!

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    LLW-Anti-Church as well, I thought they were only anti-war. I guess all the blood gives it away, shoulda gotten that sooner, more coffee for me. Thanks for the heads up.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#7)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    let's see some bigotry in your remarks!
    Standard wingnut response #32:The Personal Attack.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    It became a Federal case when the people broke a Federal law.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    if they feel strongly enough about their protest then these folks should be more then willing to accept the consquences of their actions.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#10)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    If they are criminals for spilling their own blood in protest, then what are the people who spill the blood of so many others in conquest?

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Ernie - Soldiers.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Jim...not quite. The neocons may be many things, but soldiers are never one of them. Of course, our soldiers are their victims, though.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#13)
    by Lww on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    "The neocons may be many things, but soldiers are never one of them"....Freakin A. And I might add that their kids are going to law school while all the dying and killing is done by others. And I might also add that if you read the Holy Bible of the left (NY Times) and yours truly (Talk Left) in March,2003 you'll see a tepid response to the impending invasion of Iraq. It was something they wanted, but as soon as it was done they went after Bush. Talk about cowards......and hypocrites.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Ernie - I just attended a reunion in which prayers for those who had died in service of their country were said, and old friends hugged and shared memories, both good and bad. God bless the USA. A country in which even people with political beliefs such as yours may state them. May it never change.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    I don't have any "political beliefs" stated here, Jim. Just an observation that the neocons send other people's kids to die for their dirty work. Can you refute that? No. And unfortunately, hugging and sharing memories does not change that plain fact. Your prayers won't bring anybody back, either. 1,899 and counting...

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Which part of vandalism are you confused by?
    The part that sends nuns to prison for longer periods than rapists get. Six years for demonstrating for peace?! I've seen people do less than a county year for violent assault. Ridiculous.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#17)
    by aw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    It's political. No more than that.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#18)
    by aw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    It's politcal. No more than that. The federal prosecution, I mean.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Posted by Jim: "Ernie - I just attended ..." A rightwing stroke-fest, during which you sobbed one tear for each of the EIGHTEEN HUNDRED US soldiers and families Bush has destroyed. What a GREAT country, that thanks in part to boneheads like you no longer has impeachment powers or fair elections. 130,000+ dead Iraqis. What was their crime? Brown skin.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:00 PM EST
    Oh, hey, didn't mean to understate the debacle, Jim. It's actually NINETEEN HUNDRED dead US soldiers. Oh well. One hundred is such a small number. Two thousand should be a cinch. Bush makes about $ten million per soldier. It's quite a business, cashing them in.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Paul-The counting of dead US soldiers is skewed by the fact that the vast majority of dead soldiers go uncounted as they count does not include the wounded who perished during transport or those who died in hospitals outside of the country. The US soldier death toll is probably more like 10,000.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    It's a point of ZERO concern to Jim either way. He just likes to 'squeeze out a few' so he can feel holy about supporting their traitorous murderer.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Squeak writes:
    The US soldier death toll is probably more like 10,000.
    Got a link, or is that like your claims about the hunter? Ernesto writes:
    I don't have any "political beliefs" stated here, Jim..
    Everything about the Left is politics. Your opposition to the war is not based on an anti-war belief, but an anti-Bush political position. Your rage is over loss of power, not over loss of life. You have compared "neocons" to terrorists, and you have written hundreds of words about 9/11, which you finally blamed on the US because we gave weapons to the Afghanistan rebels, never admitting that the terrorists, no matter what we had given them, had no moral reason to attack us. PIL writes:
    A rightwing stroke-fest, during which you sobbed one tear for each of the EIGHTEEN HUNDRED US soldiers and families Bush has destroyed.
    PIL, you will never in your life understand this, but politics never came up. No one mentioned Clinton, Bush, Carter, etc. The prayer, a simple one, was for all who have died, in the service of their country. The conversations were about old times and old friends and children and careers in later life. You see PIL, there is a life beyond hatred. People can talk without calling presidents war criminals, people can talk without anal references at the end of almost every statement, people can look back and see the good and the bad and enjoy the good without letting the bad corrode them.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    I hope the federal jury believes in America and freedom. If they do, the protestors will be ok. No partiotic jury with a conscience could convict.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    people can look back and see the good and the bad
    Noooooo Jim, no fingerpointing, it is unamerican. I believe the political line is now to just look ahead. With closed eyes.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Adrazar - If you read the thread you know that the comment was about personal conversations with personal friemds about shared experiences. No politics. Why is that so hard for the Left to understand?

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    Your personal experiences, Jim, are moot. The actual war crimes being committed are not. As for your molasses speechs about how holy you are-- I got new for you. Supporting traitors in not patriotic. Those 1900 soldiers? You're wearing their blood, along with the blood of tens of thousands of innocent families you have helped slaughter. No amount of crocodile tears will save you at the narrow gate. You're busy fighting for the greed and racism of the rich -- and Jesus doesn't give you much in the way of odds.

    Re: War Protestors Go On Trial in NY (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:03 PM EST
    ppj-If you consider that there are 15,000-42,500 wounded many of whom later die, plus the non-combat deaths the figure is sure to be over 10,000 dead. None of these soldiers are counted by the DOD as casualties. Just like you, our military would like us to believe that no one has died in Iraq. They are all havng a grand ole picnic American style. link
    How many injured and ill soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines – like Chris Schneider – are left off the Pentagon’s casualty count? Would you believe 15,000? 60 Minutes asked the Department of Defense to grant us an interview. They declined. Instead, they sent a letter, which contains a figure not included in published casualty reports: “More than 15,000 troops with so-called ‘non-battle’ injuries and diseases have been evacuated from Iraq.” Yet none of these are included in the media-reported casualty count, leaving the true human cost of the war something of a mystery. “It’s difficult to estimate what the total number is,” says John Pike, director of a research group called GlobalSecurity.org which publishes an informed estimate that goes well beyond what the Pentagon has released.
    link

    War Protestors Go On Trial in NY | 28 comments (28 topical)