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Katrina Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Huricanes Katrina and Rita
Posted on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 04:38:43 PM EST
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I've got to head out for a few hours. Please take over with news, thoughts, links (in html format), whatever. There are Katrina donation links up on both sides of TalkLeft, one to the Red Cross and one to a liberal blogoshpere Katrina fundraising effort, so there is no need to repost those.

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    Katrina Open Thread | 33 comments (33 topical)
    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:00 PM EST
    If you want to let the red cross have money to send to the new orleans fund for the victims do so but understand in the 9-11 fund only 154 million was handed out to the victims out of 564 million. as the aftermate of hurricane katrina continuse to wreak mass mayhen and havoc amid reports of looting, shooting at rescue worker's and national guard people be careful where it goes; if bush is promoting the red cross its for a reason he can make some money on the deal. oh yes it is known that 300 million was handed over to the afghanistan government out of the 9-11 money none of it was used to help the little people.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:01 PM EST
    Cheney is still on vacation! Interesting how the 911 response was so much better. I will never forget who presided over the biggest disaster in our history. I'm not talking about a storm but the re-pub's entire 8 year insurgency.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:01 PM EST
    FEMA is now part of Dept. of Homeland Security. So, what if this was a dirty bomb. This is the first real test of the new Dept of HS. They have failed!

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:01 PM EST
    Libby Dole is no longer the head of Red Cross like she was during the 9-11 disaster. It is much less likely the funds are going to be mismanaged under competent leadership.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:01 PM EST
    Dan - And how have they failed? That didn't go in and force people to leave? I mean if people had left as advised, guess what, the current problems wouldn't be centered around rescuing people, and no one would be shooting at the rescue teams. That before Katrina hit, they didn't provide transportation, housing and substance for those who didn't have the means to leave? Their charter wasn't, isn't and probably won't be, to do that. So complain all you want, but understand, first of all, the mission.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:01 PM EST
    As a eulogy of sorts for those we've lost in these past few very sad days in New Orleans, I thought these words worth quoting... and something to guide us as we talk to each other... Thank you Bonnie, for singing them so beautifully... Sung by Bonnie Raitt Written by Allen Shamblin and Rob Mathes
    Don'y let me grow bitter I pray Give me strength to carry on my way I'm leanin' on you like a wooden cane While I'm walkin' through I'm walkin' through The valley of pain I'm believin' there's a reason for this trial This too shall pass in a little while Oh Lord have mercy if I complain While I'm walkin' through, I'm walkin' through A valley of pain While I'm walkin' through, I'm walkin' through A valley of pain Won't you bathe me in a river of my tears Whisper hope and truth and courage in my ears When I'm hurting I have a dangerous tongue I'll lose it and use it like a gun Lord stop me if you see my takin' aim Whike I'm walkin' through, I'm walkin' through A valley of pain I'm walkin' through, I'm walkin' through A valley of pain I'm walkin' through, I'm walkin' through A valley of pain Bathe me in a river of my tears Whisper hope and truth and courage in my ears Remind me when I reach the other side I'll be thankful for every tear I cried Don'y let me grow bitter I pray Give me strength to carry on my way Don't let the darkness drive me insane While I'm walkin' through, I'm walkin' through A valley of pain I'm walkin' through, I'm walkin' through A valley of pain I'm walkin' through, I'm walkin' through This valley of pain


    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:01 PM EST
    I'm no Bonnie Raitt..but here ya go..Just got word my Uncle got out and he's one of the well off the Looters Always the scapegoat of the disaster, the easy ape to film and put before the civilized and principled that sit upon Ararat, far above the flood. Always the bane of the ubermensch, the gentleman, Who under duress would always defer to the same axiom That ruled over all those great fellows who died Before sacrificing what surely earned them their position. "I've lost everything" says the principled fellow, The resident of the Ark, the brother of Noah, The day trader, the chip leader. "Everything is ours." says the criminal, the looter, The one who would dare to pick through the dross that would be lost, Except to serve as excess inventory for an insurance claim. "They will be dealt with ruthlessly." says the State, The savior that has not saved a one. Shall we kill them, eh. Yes, kill. Those that would take the spoiled food, The silt stained tennis shoes, the diapers, the baby formula. Because, you see, they take from us. That is our baby food, that is our spoil, our dross. Else society would fall, our civilization would not be worthy...eh? Was it not theirs because a Nike cannot be an heirloom? Was it not theirs because they did not have A camera to point back upon your own? Was it not theirs because it was not a promissory note Worth more than all their homes in toto? Was it not theirs because you could not bear to part With one iota of your wealth? Have you ever sinned and not been thrown in jail?? Forgive me while I put these shoes, Made by another impoverished race far across the sea, Upon my feet and run back to the castle of my landlord's apartment That now sinks beneath the sea. Forgive me, For I have never understood a founding father's dream Of a centralized bank.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:01 PM EST
    PPJ, nobody needs to hear your crap now. People are hurting and need help, and there is time later for a good many people to show you just how wrong your comment was. But for now the adults have real important things to take care of and can't be too terribly bothered with a mouth-breather like you. We see a disaster that could have minimized by a real leader, you just see where the poor and indigant got what they deserved. You aren't worthy of being called a human being.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    When I'm hurting I have a dangerous tongue I'll lose it and use it like a gun Lord stop me if you see my takin' aim Whike I'm walkin' through, I'm walkin' through A valley of pain...


    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    Yeah when I saw Jim's retort, I starting looking for the eject button. I've got to hand it to CNN - between Jeanne Meserve, Anderson Cooper, Jack Cafferty (even Kyra Phillips & Ms. O'Brien), it's been a blasting party. The price of gas at just over $3.00/gallon is tempering my urge to pack up from Costco and take off. Jesus! These are our fellow Americans. These are OUR people and they need our help and we're getting sh*t from the politicans backslapping each other. The Comfort hasn't even left port yet!

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    I'm just livid!

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    logic – Don’t quit your day job. Sherm – Bud, you in particular need a dose of logic. And if you have an argument, let’s hear it. Instead all I hear is “later.” But tell me:
    We see a disaster that could have minimized
    Outside of forcefully removing these people, before Katrina hit, how could that be true? Sherm, you are full of it. You just want to use these poor people as the delivery vehicle for your hate. Et al – Much was made about the NG earlier today. Here is a site that will give you the numbers. Link But let me warn you. The facts don’t match what you want to believe, so you may not want to read it.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    Joe Scarborough just called Dennis Hastert on his "disgraceful" remark about razing New Orleans. Oh, pardon me - not worth it to rebuild.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    The metaphoric eagle is often used as a symbol of America. Some, in parts of the world, seem to think the vulture is a more apt symbol. One soars toward ever new heights, the other scavenges from corpses what it can to survive. Both are powerful symbols that elicit deep and strong emotions. They seem to be opposites, when in reality they are perceptions from differing viewpoints. Fliers with only seemingly different purposes, they both try to live as successfully as they can. Both of them rely on their wings to get where they need or want to go. Both wings... the left wing, and the right. If the wings are at war, the bird will plummet. Break one wing - the right, for example, or bind the left, and eagles or vultures will both fly in a spiraling tailspin, and die. If either wing is too weak or strong relative to the other, the result will be the same. Only when both wings realize they need each other and work together can the eagle soar ever higher, or the vulture lumber across the sky seeking death. The wings have a common purpose - to keep the body flying. They also have a common challenge - together they must agree on their direction, or goal, and whether they are the wings of an eagle, or of a vulture. The rest of the world admires, looks up to, and welcomes eagles, but is disgusted by, hates, and kills vultures...


    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    Trying to look at the bright side, I don't see another Republican being elected president after this genocidal debacle.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    edger Screw that! At this point I say we cut off the right wing completely and go without flying. It's now become a matter of principle to stamp out these Nazis wherever we find them. What's happening in New Orleans is no less than a form of genocide. We're getting to see the right wingers for who they really are. Doubtless they'll be moaning about logistical failures and making other excuses after this is over, much as they did with Iraq. I don't think the American people will fall for it again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    Break one wing - the right, for example, or bind the left, and eagles or vultures will both fly in a spiraling tailspin, and die.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    CNN is reporting that with just over 5,000 people in it, the Astrodome is now turning busses away and telling them to find another city.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    All I know is Michael Brown sucks. And not in a good way.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    Hey y'all, this is different than anything we've ever seen. Only 9/11 compares in my experience. I personally know people there, so do many of you. Please let's not turn this thing into a political game. The feelings are strong, and I have them too, and you regulars all know that, but we have to pull for our elected officials here. To say that they have failed is misplaced anger and frustration--we are all upset, but the efforts are there. What's killing me personally right now is my wife and I haven't been able to send very much and I don't know what else I can do to help. Except pull for rescues and depend on the generosity of those who have more.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    Okay, so we should be rooting for whoever was brilliant enough to think that they could house 25,000 people in a facility with 130,000 sq. ft. of floor space? We have emergency management that can't do basic math. Let's do the math real quick: 130,000 / 25,000 = 5.2 sq. ft. Area of a cot = 16 sq. ft. 5.2 / 16 = .325 = approx. 1/3 So each person gets approximately 1/3 of a cot to sleep on, assuming the cots cover 100% of the floor space with no walking room. Sounds perfect! 25,000 it is.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:04 PM EST
    Michael, I saw Rick Perry's news conference today and yes, they overestimated with the Astrodome. But Texas, with which I disagree with politically on almost everything, has stepped up here perhaps more than any other state. Please name me another Governor who has worked harder to help those poor souls in New Orleans. And I can't stand Perry's politics. But them's the facts, brother. Besides, beating up on politicos here helps how? What precedent did they freakin' have for this? Could I have done better? Hell no. That's all I'm saying.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:04 PM EST
    Go Texas. Previously it was "But...SADDAM!" Now it's "But...the LOOTERS!"

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:04 PM EST
    Genocide? Nazis?? Are you people serious? The over-the-top vitriol on this site is nothing short of stunning. While the conditions in New Orleans are indeed apalling, the mere thought of comparing this natural disaster to the Auschwitz atrocities is nothing short of laughable to anyone who has family members that lived in Europe during WWII. You really ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:04 PM EST
    mtypkl-With all due respect to your relatives gruesome gaily torture and perhaps death, even though the utter magnitude and maniacal evil of the holocaust is in no way comparable to the NO disaster, the refugee/rescue effort does seem to have some similar themes.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:04 PM EST
    I'm sure someone more familiar with NO will correct me, I only visited once for the World Fair in '84, but if Canal Street is open, and it looks to be from news coverage, then folks at the Superdome can get to the river. The Convention Center is right next to the river, if I remember correctly. It's a big ass river, the navy are planning to bring in a hospital ship and moore it alongside. Why can't folks be taken off by boat ? No axe to grind, no point to make, just curious.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:04 PM EST
    PPBAK writes:
    I mean if people had left as advised, guess what, the current problems wouldn't be centered around rescuing people
    From this article: "But then I said, 'If we do take the car, some of us would be sitting on one another's laps.' And the state troopers were talking about making arrests." Maybe he should have just taken a limo ride.
    So complain all you want, but understand, first of all, the mission.
    Yeah, the mission should have been to finish the levees, but Bush was squandering all that money on Iraq. But hey, at least New Orleans is safe from Saddam's nookular weapons. Way to go Bush, our savior.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:04 PM EST
    Well it was all preventable by a government that should have cared for the infrastructure. They were negligent. Fire em all. Obviosly it's everyone for themselves already in this country. This is just an extension of that philosophy.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:05 PM EST
    TL, Noticed the ad on your main page asking people to donate blood. I know it's a long shot, but perhaps you could suggest to whoever contacted you from the Red Cross to place this ad that they do something about creating a method for people who have been incorrectly banned from giving blood to get their names removed from that list so that those who are willing can help them out in times like this. In my case, I had a beer with lunch, about 90 minutes before donating blood. The minute amount of alhohol (it was one beer) in my system caused a false reading on the Hepatitis B test they do. They even told me that, given how low the test result was, this was almost certainly the case. I had $1500 worth of blood tests done to certify that I did not have Hepatitis B and came out with a clean bill of health. I have the paperwork to prove it. Nevertheless, once the Red Cross sends you such a letter, you can never give blood again, regardless of the fact that they themselves suggested the results were probably false and regardless of the fact that subsequent testing proved this to be the case. Not a big issue, I suppose, unless you actually care enough to go lie down on a table and bleed so that someone else might have a second chance at life. I used to give blood four times a year, but haven't given any in the past 12 years because of this policy. Given today's testing techniques, it would seem that they could resolve these issues. At the very least, it makes seeing ads like the one on your homepage annoying, as they are turning away healthy people who are quite willing to donate blood while spending money to beg more people to do so.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:05 PM EST
    Is there anyone else out there who after watching all the news reports and analysis of just how vulnerable NO is, and just how ineffectual anything man can do to protect it from mother nature is, is starting to think that maybe the city should just be friggin' abandoned?

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:05 PM EST
    I think it's too soon to worry about that question sarc. Our fisrt and only priority right now should be to feed, cloth, and provide medical treatment to the thousands of refugees. After that, I agree we need extensive debate as to whether the area should be rebuilt or not.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:05 PM EST
    ...maybe the city should just be friggin' abandoned?
    Won't happen. The same people who failed to prepare for the obvious possibility (left, right, local, fed, corporate, political, whatever) will use it as a feel-good cause to boost their image with other people's money. They'll rebuild, this time with levees that can withstand a category 4 hurricane -- but probably not a category 5. It'll work, too. I look forward to visiting New New Orleans after the Feel Good kicks in.

    Re: Katrina Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:03:05 PM EST
    Well, roy, on the bright side, similar to LA after the '94 Northridge earthquake, once the insurance money kicks in and the rebuilding starts, NO will be a economic dynamo.

    Katrina Open Thread | 33 comments (33 topical)