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Learning From Poker Boot Camp

Marc Cooper writes that he learned at poker boot camp how to tell when Rumsfeld is lying...which is all the time.

When people start sucking their lips into their mouths, they’re probably lying or bluffing. That’s what I was taught this past weekend in a poker boot camp by former FBI counter-intelligence officer Joe Navarro.

Joe was offering us campers a seminar on how to read body language. When it came to the lesson on lip-sucking, he emphasized the above point by saying: “That’s why every time you see Don Rumsfeld on TV his lips pretty much altogether disappear.”

There's lots more. [Via Kevin Drum and Crooks and Liars]

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  • Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#1)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:45 PM EST
    I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said that a good government should lie a lot. Or maybe that was Goebbels. Whichever. Point is, this guy hates freedom, democracy, and the troops.

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:45 PM EST
    So a good player will give you a fake "bluffing" tell and take all of your money. If this guy is a player I'm a FBI agent.

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#3)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:45 PM EST
    Rumsfeld is always lying its his job to lied to you and lies for bush and business, its a normal way of life for my boy big old Rumsfeld, didn't he also lie for Reagan and lie to you back in 1983 when he made friends with saddam? over some oil deal? at one time he called saddam his best friend, do any of you remember that one? and let us not forget the drug dealers he knew in Pananma and El Salvador and the deal he made for bush one with Red China about your jobs and how he goT in on the bush two oil deal ( SEE BCCI BANK) that made millions on your backs..yes Rumsfeld a guy for you.

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:45 PM EST
    Actually...with Rummy you can tell by seeing his lips moving, rather than disappearing. But he really believes every word he says since he is quite possibly insane. Euro-communism vs. Ameri-fascism?

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:46 PM EST
    In my poker travels I've found the guy with nervous tics is usually bluffing, the guy with the fake smile is bluffing. George Bush bluffs a lot. PPJ, if Rummy wanted to give off a false tell, he'd false tell he's got the goods, because in reality he does not:)

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:46 PM EST
    kdog - The issue really is body language, and I have had several classess on same. I have found most of it interesting, but about as accurate as feeling/counting the number of bumps on a "criminals" head when it comes to poker. Not that it may not be there, and not that it may not be correct. The question comes down to: If he's doing a fake bluff, I've just lost the rent money. You need to know a lot more than the fact that he has a goofy smile or sucking his lips. Besides, I thought all politicans lied all the time. ;-) BTW - Get some of Mike Caro's books if you are interested in the subject. He has actually made his living in poker for 30 years or more.

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:46 PM EST
    PPJ..Agreed, tells are far from an exact science, the same tell can mean different things from different people, just passing along what's been working for me in the underground clubs, the ones that haven't been raided yet:) Caro is excellent, I've read his work. I recommend "Tao of Poker", I thought it was informative and had lots of practical advice. But as I'm sure you know, no book can match time spent on the felt.

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:46 PM EST
    kdog - True. Every time I think I have the game down pat I get my head handed to me. DA - Have you nothing better to do than make a 412 word comment complete with a couple of misspelled words because I happened to comment I don't think the guy is a poker player? I even noted that body language is useable. So what's your problem? You don't like me? Get over it dude, I wouldn't have a beer with you either.

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:47 PM EST
    DA writes:
    True enough. But you implied that his not mentioning this fact
    DA, I implied nothing. I just said that if someone starts talking about tells in poker without noting their limitations he isn't a poker player. If you don't like that, tough. And no, I still wouldn't have a beer or any social contact with you no matter how hard you beg. BTW - The trend is down. You have one spelling, one grammar and one typing error in this one. Really, can't you do better? Or is it, as you have claimed about me, this is a serious tell about your emotional state? What do I think? I think you are just apt to make mistakes.

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:47 PM EST
    PPJ- Spell check certainly doesn't make you seem remotely intellegent, Genius man.

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#14)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:49 PM EST
    Here is a poker tip from the great Kenny Rogers.
    You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em Know when to walk away, know when to run.
    Its time to "fold 'em" and "walk away" from Iraq.

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:49 PM EST
    John H - Heck, I didn't even like his singing. I'm sure not going to take his advice. ;-) Squeak - You came late, very late to this discussion. In the meantime, speaking of intelligence, tell us about your belief that genetics, family and social position should be used to judge people. DA You are so transparent. To avoid proof reading you are writing like an idiot. That is so funny. Keep it up. It gives me what I want with no effort from me. BTW How do you like the corner? I mean the one you are trapped in?

    Re: Learning From Poker Boot Camp (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:49 PM EST
    PPJ-judging by your continually repeated distortion of my comments regarding Rove and his family, it is clear that you must have had to defend your position regarding your personal family history. Racism and family history is a hot spot for you, and I doubt that it is for the idealistic version you have sputtered forth. Are you a softer and gentler version of your grandpa, have you evolved from a string of fascists to become a fair minded and virtuous self determined individual? If this is so, the relatives that have had no influence over you are either horrible beyond belief or people I would have of loved to know.