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Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist Law Controlling

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 12:15:07 PM EST
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What a victory for democracy (not.)

The U.S. has backed the Shi'ites in the Iraq Constitution fight - which would make Islamist law predominant. The Sunnis want the U.S. to withdraw their support for the draft document.

A retreat to Sharia law would be the antithesis of a democratic state. Didn't George Bush tell us we were going to war to bring a democracy to Iraq? What a total failure both Bush and his war are.

Juan Cole:

Al-Hayat: In one of the major disputes outstanding between the Kurds and the Shiites, on whether Islamic law will be the fundamental source or only one of the sources of Iraqi law, the Shiite religious parties appear to have won out. AFP reports that the reason for this is that the United States has swung around and begun to support the primacy of Islamic canon law.

We won't bring freedom and democracy to Iraq any more than we did to Vietnam.

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    Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist Law Controlling | 19 comments (19 topical)
    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:34 PM EST
    Agreed. We have no real moral standing there, so it's next to impossible to preach equality and secularism. And what of the forgotten war in Afghanistan? Seeing my little brother tonight, first time in a long time, before he heads to help train the Afghan army for a year. I can tell from the tone in his voice that, after spending almost a year in Baghdad, he is dreading going back into a war-torn region. The region we forgot so we could make mincemeat of Iraq. Send some vibes to him, he'll need them. Peace, J. You get my last few coins in the kitty?

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#2)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:34 PM EST
    More from Juan Cole:
    A secular Muslim reader writes on the reactionary implications of implementing Islamic canon law in Iraq: "Bush’s crime family has no problem if Iraq becomes another failed nation as long as the second deadline of Aug 22 becomes “successful”".
    update

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:34 PM EST
    And the son follows in the footsteps of the father, making the world safe to spread...14th century Islamic Fiefdoms. The Sunnis' are now calling for US help. Wonder if the Bush admin. can be bothered, as we were (after the other excuses were debunked) told we were here to spread Western style democracy. I'm not holding my breath.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:34 PM EST
    Chuck Hagel...who actually went to Vietnam (unlike every single f-ing weasel left in the war party) throws a cold dose of reality on all of them today.
    ``What I think the White House does not yet understand - and some of my colleagues - the dam has broke on this policy,'' Hagel said. ``The longer we stay there, the more similarities (to Vietnam) are going to come together.''
    I guess Hagel can expect to be swiftboated now. The writing is on the wall for the neocons. Let's give them a fair trial (even tho they don't deserve it) and be done with them before they bleed the us and the treasury completely dry.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#5)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:34 PM EST
    The longer we stay in Iraq the weaker the US is becomes. Islamic radicals with close ties to Iran have come to power, including Muqtada al-Sadr, who controls one of the biggest blocs in the government. I imagine that it must be strange for American soldiers to be fighting for a government that includes al-Sadr, a person responsible for killing many of their comrades, a person who believed that the attack on the Twin Towers was God's will. In cities dominated by these Shiite fundamentalists we have seen a return to Taliban-like control with the enforcement of "a conservative Islamic code, including dress codes and bans on alcohol and other non-Islamic behavior." The new Iraqi government is on the State Department's list of goverments practicing torture. Iraq has turned into one big mess. The only reason that we are still there is because Bush and the Republicans don't want to be seen as having lost a war. This just isn't a good enough reason for Americans to keep dying.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:34 PM EST
    Interesting.. where was everyone almost a year ago? napping? Bush clearly stated he was OK with a fundamentalist Islamic state in Iraq if that were to be the result of their "democratic" election. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1222997.htm I guess this didn't sink in on either the right or the left.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#7)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:35 PM EST
    Interesting.. where was everyone almost a year ago? napping? Bush clearly stated he was OK with a fundamentalist Islamic state in Iraq if that were to be the result of their "democratic" election. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1222997.htm I guess this didn't sink in on either the right or the left.
    Well, this was the only possible outcome, but it's a little more than what Bush said. This isn't just an election result, this is an active push for theocracy as American policy.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#8)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:35 PM EST
    The last thing the neo-crazies wanted is a fundamentalist Islamic government. Bremer and his ilk spent a great deal of efort trying to fix the system so that a US friendly govenment could be installed. The inability to control the insurgency has caused everything to unravel. The real issue is not the Islamic law per se, the real issue is the close alignment with Iran. The US has spent a great deal of effort over the years trying to minimize the influence of Iran. This meant supporting Saddam against Iran. The debacle in Iraq means that Iran has more influence than ever before and the US influence wans more and more every day. The reason for the war is very easy to understand for those who have read the writings of the neocons and looked at a map of the Mideast. The Saudis wanted us out of their country since they want to decrease the instability that our presence brought. That meant that new bases were needed in order to continue to exert political and military influence in the area to preserve the flow of oil, i.e. the Carter doctrine. So the plan was invade Iraq kick their butts, install a friendly government, and then on to Iran. However, the wheels have come off the war machine. The reason the Dems have not been very vocal against the war, is that they agree with its purpose, i.e. maintain influence and preserve the flow of oil. They all realize that losing this war will have a diasterous effect on our supply of oil. But I guess they can always try to overthrow Chavez again or if that fails invade them.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:35 PM EST
    Bush clearly stated he was OK with a fundamentalist Islamic state in Iraq if that were to be the result of their "democratic" election.
    The word "democratic" is in scare quotes, which I take to mean that provided the average Iraqi has no say in the drafting of their new constitution, which might result in the formation of a fundamentalist Islamic state, that would be fine with Bush. I'm surprised he didn't insist on a fundamentalist Christian state.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#10)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:35 PM EST
    Didn't George Bush tell us we were going to war to bring a democracy to Iraq?
    Not to quibble, but the FIRST story was the admin said we had to go to iraq because they were a threat to the US and involved in 9/11. The SECOND story was iraq had WMDs and would eventually use them ... on us. The THIRD story was iraq had WMD programs that would eventually be used on us. The FOURTH was iraq had plans to have WMD programs that would ... yada yada yada. Only until they moved the goalposts again did the FIFTH story magically appear which was to establish a shining beacon of democracy in the ME ... (and torture and rape rooms and 14 permanent US bases) ... oh yeah, and get their oil. Hearts and flowers. Pay for itself. Greeted as liberators. Erect (and when was the last time you heard that mentioned in the same sentance as George Bush) statues to GWB.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:35 PM EST
    I'm surprised he didn't insist on a fundamentalist Christian state. LOL.. true. but what's the difference between a fundamentalist christian vs. islamic state? not much, really. both are all about racism, exclusion, extremist beliefs, etc. thus BushCo believes the built-in tribal, racial issues in Iraq will serve as a terminal distraction for the parties involved, i.e. the Sunni, Sh'ia, Kurds and they won't notice what U.S. oil corporations are up to. This isn't just an election result, this is an active push for theocracy as American policy. perhaps. there's little doubt that BushCo actually supports the "strong man" method of leadership for Iraq, Iran, etc. obviously the only think they care about is whomever the leader is, he's willing to be on the BushCo payroll and be a good little boy. it matters not if the guy purports to believe in Islamic law, etc. Hussein was the man-- until he became deluded and thought he was actually in charge.. and started courting EU and Russian coporations to expand Iraq's oil production.. and oh yeah, his move to value Iraq's oil reserves in Euros instead of dollars was not a good move either. had he not made those "errors" he and his psycho sons would still be in place.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#12)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:35 PM EST
    bush and the 'cons could not care less what type of gov't is installed in iraq, as long as we get the oil. at $65 a barrel, it now becomes worth it to start shipping to our refineries. this whole program has been nothing short of a boon to the oil companies, who's profits have gone through the roof. geez, no wonder they give to the bushies till it hurts, i would.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#13)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:35 PM EST
    What a shameful travesty, to watch Americans die on a daily basis so that the women of Iraq can wind up worse off than they were under Saddam Hussein. It's not surprising that the men of the Bush administration would except this since most of them would love to have their own wives subject to Sharia law.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#14)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:35 PM EST
    "What a shameful travesty, to watch Americans die on a daily basis so that the women of Iraq can wind up worse off than they were under Saddam Hussein." Remember when nobody was ever, ever, ever allowed to say that? Death of a platitude...

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:36 PM EST
    The "noble cause" is black and gooey.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:36 PM EST
    Posted by soccerdad: "The inability to control the insurgency has caused everything to unravel." What you call an insurgency seems to target civilan Iraqis on a regular basis. In some cases the Iraqis on site have said that suspicious activity by US forces precedes these explosions. The POLICY is civil war, and always has been. There is no 'problem' controlling an insurgency. There is EVERYTHING DONE TO CREATE AN INSURGENCY: 1) invasion on false pretexts. 2) failure to rebuild, after destroying water and power (illegally). 3) massive corruption and bribery. 4) as many as 20,000 mercenaries, including rightwing terrorists from around the world. 5) home assaults with murders by troops. 6) unmarked checkpoints, with murders by troops. 7) blatant imprisonment without charges. 8) 'outed' torture, with lots of photos and video. 9) fixed elections. 10) puppet gov't. 11) arming the insurgency (Bremer giving the former army their guns and the kiss off; 650,000 lbs. of ammo, 280 tons of high-explosives, 400 shoulder-fired missiles; cesium and strontium out of Tuwaitha) 12) "There is no more Iraq. There will be three territories." reported words of HF* Kissinger, early 2004. 13) Long-standing conspiracy papers blatantly STILL on the internet. 14) The obvious truth that the US installed Hussein and armed him. 15) Only protecting the oil ministry. The national museum looted by US-backed teams (Chalabi); the Koran-Torah Repository burnt to the ground) 16) Mosques damaged, Korans mistreated. Total legal waiver on mercs means rapes, robberies, and murders common. 17) refusal to track civilian death toll (for reparations). 18) Pogroms on whole cities, including Fallujah and Al Qa'im. 19) 15 permanent airbases in sovereign country. 20) strutting, racist president, who called it a Crusade, and CENTCOM's promotion of genocidal attitudes. 21) Christian missionaries accompanying troops. WHAT ELSE COULD THEY DO TO CREATE AN INSURGENCY? They have done it all. And now the civil war, aided by mercenary hits and predations. Followed by the conversion to territories, after the 'failure' of demockery to take hold. So sad -- so profitable.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:36 PM EST
    Paul-you forgot polluting their land for the next several centurys with depleted uranium. Very effective because the next several gerneations will be weak deformed and easy to control.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:37 PM EST
    Indeed, the list is truly too long to hide under the rubric 'incompetence.' It is NEGLIGENCE and GENOCIDE. When the Constitution fails (because the USPNAC wants EVERYONE to know that it is blatantly lying about demockery), that will be another step toward dismantling the country. Watch the trolls on this issue. They don't want to talk about it, and when they float the 'three territories' bit, they act SO innocent. After all, the Kill Them All crowd just wants what's best for former-Iraq.

    Re: Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist L (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:37 PM EST
    Bush and friends couldn't care less what kind of state Iraq turns into, just as long as the PNAC economic agenda of free market fleecing is written in stone for all times.

    Iraq Constitution: Sunnis Object to Islamist Law Controlling | 19 comments (19 topical)