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Exit Plan? They Have No Clue

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sun Aug 14, 2005 at 01:17:48 PM EST
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Crooks and Liars has the video of Howard Dean on Face the Nation today.

The question is, what is a reasonable way to get out? And that's - we have no answers from the President on that at all. He keeps - his Administration appears divided. Some of the generals have said we can withdraw some of the troops, perhaps as many as 30,000 after the elections. We have others saying, we're not going to leave. These people do not know what they are doing. They didn't know what they were doing when we got in, they had no plan then, they have no plan now.

[Via Atrios.]

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    Exit Plan? They Have No Clue | 36 comments (36 topical)
    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:20 PM EST
    For those who don't have a clue, I bet they have detailed strategies on how to gut social services in america. The VA has been gutted already and the troops..... well since we do not have a plan they may be gutted too. Two birds..Chicken hawks.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#2)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:20 PM EST
    Oh yes squeaky you are so right on that one!..but lets face facts bush is not going to get out of the mideast until people get on top of him. the exit plan is part of war but bush is not fighting this "iraq thing" like a war, so he must be behind the plans of bin laden, is it that bush knew about what was going to happen 9-11? why didn't the CIA Get bin laden years before 9-11, was bin laden working for the CIA? And what is really happening with iran? didn't bush say one day he wants to work with iran? and the next day say he wants iran to stop its work on the H-Bomb?..who is doing who and why? what do you think will happen to your civil right and civil liberties the day we in never,never land get hit with a real attack that kills millions?..would that not work right! into the hands of bush and business?

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:20 PM EST
    (editorial comment: this typepad thing is a PITA.) Man, false advertising - using Dean and "without a clue" in the same lede.... -C

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#4)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:20 PM EST
    There will be no exit until the "war is over." Which is to say, the killings will continue as long as it remains politically expedient to keep them going. And Fred, that's a great post. Especially the second paragraph. But 9/11 seems to have been all Bush and company needed to begin the widespread erosion of our freedoms. It really doesn't take all that long to kill this "great experiment." All you need are a few Falwell/book burning/gay murdering types, a nice core of corporate thugs placed at the helm, and a profit-driven media with little to no stake in what happens to America.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:20 PM EST
    But what is Dean's plan?

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:20 PM EST
    The suggestion that they 'have no plan' is HILARIOUS. THEY PUBLISHED IT IN 1998, AND IT IS STILL ON THE INTERNET. They certainly have a plan, it is CIVIL WAR followed by dismantlement of the former Iraq. That has ALWAYS been the plan, and it is STILL the plan, just wait and see. They don't care how many soldiers they wipe out, because they want a mercenary (as well as a CIA-controlled) army anyhow. Pilots -- well, that's a different story, as is their need for sailors. Wreck and Ruin, Dick and George, Adolf and Hermann. Dean's plan? HILARIOUS. It would probably start with allowing EITHER of the presidents who won the last two elections to sit in the chair, while the one who is a liar and a traitor stands trial. Then massive reparations to Iraq, which should come out of the DOUBLING of US taxation on those who make more than $250,000 a year (as well as the reinstitution of full taxation on corporations, and the elimination of the corporate welfare state).

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:21 PM EST
    And anything that goes in that direction is probably similar to Dean's plan. Impeachment is back in the air, major. Will the Rs be able to continue to betray their country for a liar and a criminal?

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#8)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:21 PM EST
    1862-1864 - the Democratic party was calling for an exit strategy from the Civil War. The more things change...

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:21 PM EST
    One thing the admin. does have planned is the privitization of water and utilities, much to the chagrin of the Iraqi people. Water, that was once free or near free, will now be costly.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#10)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:21 PM EST
    James Robertson: And the Republicans are again involved in overseeing a civil war...except it's the one that they unintentionally caused in Iraq this time. At least Lincoln didn't claim the Confederates would greet the Union troops with flowers.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:21 PM EST
    Heh, nor did Lincoln or his successors claim that "Cotton" revenues would fund Reconstruction. Just for flavor, here's Bush on exit strategies in 1999 (Kosovo) "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." --Governor George W. Bush (R-TX) Amazing what changes depending on whose Ox is being gored.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#12)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:21 PM EST
    "Amazing what changes depending on whose Ox is being gored." Adept, You nailed it there. And that sword cuts both ways. Our so-called leaders routinely denounce the things they themselves proposed and put in place the minute their particular party is out of power. And as soon as they are back in power, all those things which were just Wrong! are right again. The obvious lesson is that no one up there on the Hill, or in the White House, really cares about anything more than their own personal aggrandizement and power. It's nice to see that someone else here can see that.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:21 PM EST
    Hard as it may be for some of you young whelps to believe, I am indeed a 200 year old man. I used to be the staunchest of Republicans. I voted for President Lincoln and when he signed the emancipation proclamation me and my abolitionist friends partied like it was 1899. I've been so sad to see how my dear GOP has changed into a party of racism, ignorance, greed, and selfish opportunism. The maturity and fiscal responsibility that I used to be so proud of in my Republican party is gone. I did not leave the GOP. It left me. The party of fairness, responsibility, and vision is the Democratic party these days. Boy how things have changed. Happy birthday to me.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#14)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:21 PM EST
    Squeaky writes:
    The VA has been gutted already
    I missed that, and have googled... still can't find it. Got a link or two old chum? I mean, you wouldn't be on a rant or something, eh Old Squeak? Punisher - Do like me, get out. You can be my replacement. et al - Exit plan? Win. Novel thought for you guys, eh?

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:21 PM EST
    Sure PPJ...but how do you define winning? Killing more of them than they kill of us? Or shelling out another 200 billion to Bush's buddies? Whoop-Whoop! That's the sound of another PPJ Non-answer alert going off.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    Our grandkids will still be discussing exit-strategy...I don't think the govt. has any intentions of leaving Iraq.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    PPJ-Veterans have not been allocated adequate funds to meet the current needs of war torn vets. They have been shortchanged on the field as well. Call that whatever you want, but the bottom line is that Bush does not give a hoot about you and your fellow grunts, unless, that is, you count the flood cheap self serving rhetorical talking points, as caring. His money goes to the big bucks corporate defense industry, which his family and cronies have been getting rich on for years. That money does not include either body armor or adequately armored vehicles. Here are your links: Knock your self out big guy.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    Posted by Ernesto: "the Republicans are again involved in overseeing a civil war...except it's the one that they unintentionally caused in Iraq" Wow, are you generous with other people's lives. Unintentional? What about Shock n' Awe's 400+ cruise missiles into Bagdad didn't you understand? What about the pogroms on Fallujah, which destroyed nearly half of its buildings? Or Al-Qa'im, which has been exposed to the same civil-war producing mass-civilian destruction. No water supply -- dysentery, cholera on the rise. No electricity -- no food for children. Civil war -- genocide, or bust. The suggestion that it is 'unintentional' is HILARIOUS.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    Big entrance fee though. $20,000 fine for bringing desperately needed meds to sick children in Iraq.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#22)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    Squeaky - Your example reminds of the economic indicator: A recession is when the guy next door is laid off. A depression is when I'm laid off. Come on, I still don't see any budget cuts. And the VA has nothing to do with either body amour or vehicles. BTW - Here is a quote from a website that claims to know all about VA benefits and cuts:
    Making matters worse, forty percent of Vietnam Veterans are homeless
    Here is what FactCheck said:
    Funding for Veterans up 27%, But Democrats Call It A Cut
    Also known as demanding 50% so you can complain when you don’t get but 27%. Sorry Squeak, you have just been caught in a fib. Et al - On “Face The Nation” when Dean was asked for his plan, the best he could was that the President didn't have a plan. Dean continues to embarrass you guys and gals. Time for Hillary to send the Doctor back to private practice. I mean, how can you complain that they have no plan when you have no plan. Plan! Plan! Who has the plan??

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#23)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    Why do the Dems need a plan? The Repubs control the government and the Repubs never include them in the decision making process. All the Dems should be doing is what the Repubs did to Clinton, just keep saying what a bad job Bush is doing. Let Bush dig himself out of the hole. If the Repubs in the Congress start to honestly look to cooperate on a different strategy than Bush that would be the time to cooperate.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    PPJ-Yes nice twist on 'reality'. The number of veterans needing assistance have skyrocketed while levels of funding have remained fairly static. So, technically you can say the VA budget has been increased by some minimal amount, but the actual services delivered to returning vets has been gutted due to popular demand.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    exit plan? the exit plan is to withdraw 75% of the troops before the 2006 elections, regardless of the situation on the ground in Iraq. the second part of the plan is - again, regardless of the situation on the ground - to say long, loud, with feeling, in four-part harmony - "We Won!" compare the recent reports of the pentagon preparing for withdrawal in 06 while Bush says stay the course, with what happened in 02 - the pentagon was preparing invasion plans (pretty incompetently, as it turned out), while Bush was saying stuff like "We haven't decided to invade," and "War is the last resort," and "We'll work with the UN." it's deja vu all over again -

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    uh - changing the subject a little bit (but not much) - I read the other day that so far we've paid Halliburon more (in inflation-adjusted dollars) than we spent on the Manhattan Project in WWII. Why do Cheney's buds need more to serve substandard food than we needed to invent the atomic bomb?

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#27)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    Squeaky writes:
    The number of veterans needing assistance have skyrocketed while levels of funding have remained fairly static. So, technically you can say the VA budget has been increased by some minimal amount,
    Good heavens, Mamma, the boy has lost it. Er Squeaky. 27& is not "static," fairly or otherwise, nor is it minimal. Look. You got caught. Just give it up and move on to the next one. BTW - Do you actually believe that 40% of Vietnam vets are homeless? Don't you recognize BS when you see it? Don't you think the MSM would be all over 500,000 or so homeless vets? BTW - Didn't you tell us over the weekend that FNC Bill O'Reilly had called Sheehanand her supporters terrorists? Guess what. The NYTimes retracted that story on Saturday. Want to retract yours on Monday?

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    statistics are always interesting - like 27% - in isolation it sounds pretty good, if you don't consider the thousands of people getting their faces blown off and losing arms and legs because we still - after over two years - can't figure out how to armor the trucks right - if we'd increased VA funding by 27% for the vets we already had before Iraq that might be a useful number -

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#29)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    PPJ-sorry to see you are so bad at math, and it was not me who told of FNC Bill O'Reilly...made that one up did you....Rove: You are learning well my son.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#30)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    Although accurate numbers are impossible to come by ... no one keeps national records on homeless veterans ... the VA estimates that nearly 200,000 veterans are homeless on any given night. And more than half a million experience homelessness over the course of a year. Conservatively, one out of every three homeless males who is sleeping in a doorway, alley, or box in our cities and rural communities has put on a uniform and served our country ... now they need America to remember them.
    LINK

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#31)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    The Administration’s budget for fiscal year (FY) 2006 seeks only $27.8 billion in appropriations for veterans’ medical care. This amounts to only a 0.4%—or less than one-half of one percent—increase over the FY 2005 appropriation in nominal, or constant, dollars, and therefore would be a reduction below the FY 2005 appropriation of $27.7 billion adjusted for inflation. The Administration’s budget would tighten funding for veterans’ medical care at a time when an influx of new veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will place substantial new demands upon a system already unable to meet its mission.
    LINK

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    good thing we're showing some fiscal responsibility by holding the line on spending - raising taxes on those folks with 7-figure incomes would hurt the "recovery" -

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#33)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    Let's see; the troops still haven't got the armor they need. The gov't is cutting vet's benes. The admin says we are withdrawing troops, but we're gonna have to raise them first. The gov't stops caring about democracy and settles for theocracy. Why after building 14 permanent bases would they have an exit strategy!? They didn't even have an entrance strategy, remember: We have enough troops Greeted with flowers Will pay for itself 6 weeks, 6 months The WMDs are 25 miles north of Tikrit. All lies.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    The suggestion that it is 'unintentional' is HILARIOUS.
    Yep, I forgot the quotation marks. Good catch.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#35)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    SD - Squeaky's quote said: "40% of Vietnam Veterans." As for the other, I just consider it blather in an attempt to get an agency more money. I have written a few of them myself. My best effort was when I explained that Western Civilization would fall if my Department didn't hire 6 more people.... The medical portion is part of the total. Let'em move the money around. missi - Numbers are interesting. For example, between 2001 and 2006 the VA's budget was increased 49%, quite a bit more than SD would lead us to believe. (See my earlier link.) et al - We should all understand that to receive most veteran benefits a person must have retired. i.e. Spent 20, or more, years in the military. The remainder are mostly injury/illness related claims, many coming to light years after the fact. And a goodly portion is, in reality, hospice care for those who have exceeded medicare or medicaid guidlines. I find it interesting that those who don't support the war, and in my view do not support the troops, scream the loudest.

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:23 PM EST
    PPJ- You as so full of it, perhaps you are having flashbacks from another time. Current VA claims are out of control, sweeping them under the rug by calling them "the remaininder" is a sick joke. From WAPO Oct 2004 (it has only gotten worse):
    At the same time, President Bush's budget for 2005 calls for cutting the Department of Veterans Affairs staff that handles benefits claims, and some veterans report long waits for benefits and confusing claims decisions. "I love the military; that was my life. But I don't believe they're taking care of me now," said Staff Sgt. Gene Westbrook, 35, of Lawton, Okla. Paralyzed in a mortar attack near Baghdad in April, he has received no disability benefits because his paperwork is missing. He is supporting his wife and three children on his regular military pay of $2,800 a month as he awaits a ruling on whether he will receive $6,500 a month from the VA for his disability. The current budget for fiscal 2005, which is still pending in Congress even though the fiscal year ended on Thursday, calls for cutting more than 500 claims processors and does not meet the VA's basic funding requests.
    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#37)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:24 PM EST
    Squeaky - Take enough time to read what I said. I said the remainder of the budget is split between old and new claims, and that many are old claims of events that happened years ago. And that many of these are essentially hospice - end of life - care. That is a descriptive statement, not an argument one way or the other. As for the WaP article, how do you know it has only gotten worse? Did a little birdie whisper in your ear? And tell us, did the 500 claims handlers get the axe, and the money spent on other things, or are the still there? I haven’t the vaguest, but would bet they are still there. As for the Sgt., he has my sympathy, and I wonder if he has contacted his Senator and Representative? If not, he should. The gist of the article, of course, is the old “don’t change anything” argument dressed up to be critical of the administration. Close, but no cigar. In the meantime, the 49% increase remains and fact and I await your proof that 45% of all Vietnam veterans are homeless. Can I pencil you in for next Wednesday? ;-)

    Re: Exit Plan? They Have No Clue (none / 0) (#38)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:24 PM EST
    Numbers are interesting. For example, between 2001 and 2006 the VA's budget was increased 49%, quite a bit more than SD would lead us to believe. (See my earlier link.)
    More blatent dishonesty from PPJ. My link only covered the change from fiscal 2005 to fiscal 2006, which is important given the increased needs. So PPJ then sites numbers from other years to try and debunk what I said. How blatently dishonest can you get. The sky's the limit apparently

    Exit Plan? They Have No Clue | 36 comments (36 topical)