home

Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson to Niger?

By Jeralyn, Section Valerie Plame Leak Case
Posted on Wed Aug 10, 2005 at 08:59:35 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

Walter Pincus has a new article in the Washington Post trying to connect the inconsistent dots about who selected Joseph Wilson for the Niger mission in 2002 - was it at Valerie Plame's suggestion or at the direction of higher ups at the CIA's Directorate of Operations counterproliferation division (CPD.)

The White House officials speaking with reporters in the days between June 6, 2003, when Wilson's op-ed appeared in the Times, and June 14, 2003, when Bob Novak's column came out, tell the same story: Valerie Plame suggested Wilson for the job. The CIA officials tell it differently.

< Covering the Hillary - Jeanine Race | He Won't Be Boxing Anymore >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson to Niger? | 22 comments (22 topical)
    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#1)
    by Strick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    So, all there really is are a series of conflicting statements. More recent ones that minimize Plame's involvement and the ones under oath before that Senate Intelligence Committee that tend to support that it was her idea. The bigger question, of course is who did Pincus talk to and has he testified before the grand jury?

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#2)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Great article, very clear, but not about who recommended Wilson/Plame. It was about the spin job and boondogle that "the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR)", began by creating the June/July 2003 memos ...The memos were ..."a statement of the views of Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.), chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence", and traitorous scoundrel. The first memo apeared on June 10 in reaction to Kristof's May 6th op ed. The second, identical to the first except for the name Wilson replaced by the miaden name Plame, was prepared for the air force one trip to Africa, a day after Wilsons op-ed piece (July 6) was written.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#3)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    the issue of who "sent" wilson to africa is, and always has been, a red herring. the major media has bought into this nonsense, wasting time on a non-issue, as opposed to the critical aspects of this whole episode: 1. that wilson found no credible evidence to support the administration's claim, in support of a pre-emptive strike on iraq, that iraq had attempted to purchase "yellow cake" from niger. 2. that, in spite of wilson's findings, as well as the conclusions of both cia and nsa analysts there was no basis for claiming that saddam had re-started iraq's dormant nuclear weapons program, the president claimed that to be the case, in the infamous "16 words" of his jan. 2003 state of the union address. hence the allusion to the mushroom cloud. 3. that someone in the white house, in retaliation for wilson's july 2003 op-ed, illegally revealed plame's status as a covert cia operative. these are the important issues in this whole sordid affair, not who sent wilson. who cares? he received no compensation, other than reimbursement of his direct travel expenses. niger isn't known as a vacation hotspot, so i think we can reasonably conclude that the term "junket" used to describe the trip is inappropriate. a question raised on another site asks why he only checked out niger, when there are at least two or three other countries that are also a source of "yellow cake"? simple answer is that niger was the specific country, cited by the administration, as the target of iraqi operatives attempting to secure the product, not any of the other countries. this was wilson's mission, as defined by the cia. former ambassador wilson has some credibility problems of his own, that much is clear. however, with respect to the core issues in this case, both he and his wife have been consistently supported by the cia officials involved in planning the mission. ultimately, all speculation is a complete waste of time. the only one at this point who knows what he's looking for, and where to find it, is special prosecutor fitzgerald. like a breath of fresh air, fitzgerald has been tight lipped about his ongoing investigation, as he should be. other prosecutors might consider his example.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    The importance of this Picus article is that he shows us that the memos were witten to be leaked. The outing was a conspiracy disemminated by partisan hack Pat Roberts, head of the INS. The memos reflected Roberts' views but were taken as fact since it he marked it Secret Memo. Not only did he out her, but made stuff up about her involvement in recommending Wilson's trip. Pincus smelled a rat July 11, and has been right ever since.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#5)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    squeaky, pat robertson may well be a partisan hack, that's in the eye of the beholder. he is not, however, in charge of the INS, which no longer exists. he is a senator from kansas, and chairman of the senate intelligence committee. again, the whole issue of who sent wilson to africa is claptrap, designed to steer everyone's attention from the real issues, as i noted above. even if his wife was responsible for his selection, so what? he was apparently eminently qualified for the mission, and there is absolutely no dispute regarding his conclusions. these were further confirmed, on the ground, during the invasion of iraq. his conclusion mirrored that of scientists and analysts at the energy dept., who also concluded that there was no concrete evidence to support the administration's contention that saddam had re-started iraq's nuclear weapons program. a conclusion shared with the white house, prior to the jan. 2003 state of the union address.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#6)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    cpinva writes:
    “that wilson found no credible evidence to support the administration's claim, in support of a pre-emptive strike on iraq, that iraq had attempted to purchase "yellow cake" from niger.”
    Actually, this whole point is off target. The administration never “claimed.” It quoted a British claim, and the British, to the best of my knowledge, have never said they were wrong. A small point perhaps, but critical, because otherwise the reader may think that the US did the initial investigation. And yellowcake was found in Iraq by the coalition forces, and the Kay report noted that Saddam’s regime had taken…
    “steps to preserve some technological capability from the pre-1991 nuclear weapons program.”
    Coupled with the Kay Report’s comments that
    “Detainees and co-operative sources indicate that beginning in 2000 Saddam ordered the development of ballistic missiles with ranges of at least 400km and up to 1000km”
    …we have a rather clear picture that Saddam wanted, and would have developed; nuclear weapons if the had not invaded. As for Wilson, common sense says that someone recommended him, and that someone was his wife. That it was a terrible decision from a professional view is undeniable if you consider just the national security aspects of using non-professional agents. But from the WaP article:
    “…..Feb. 19, 2002, meeting at the CIA was "apparently convened by [the former ambassador's] wife who had the idea to dispatch [him] to use his contacts to sort out the Iraq-Niger uranium issue," according to the Senate intelligence committee report.”
    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    cpinva- My point was not to in any way give legs to the red herring, but to show why this particular Pincus piece is more earthshattering than is apparent. It is a extremely understated and ironic piece of writing. My ref to Pat Roberts was a quote from the Pincus article and I am quite familiar with his current status. As head of the Intellegence committe he repeated the RNC spin that 'Plame could not have been undercover because she drove to Langly and sat at a desk.' Many, many covert agents work every day at Langly desk jobs and he damn well knows that. BTW, the INR dubbed "the eyes and ears" of the State Dept. is still in operation.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Dark Avenger-PPJ's bogus spin is not worth the effort, unless your fingers need a workout.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    For more on this topic, see today's The Politics of an Outing, by Gary Leupp.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#13)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Rock on Dark Avenger....as my unborn children would have said.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    I'm with cpinva. How Wilson came to be picked up is irrelevant, except for the fact that he had highly relevant experience. The whole implication that Wilson already had ulterior motives and used the irresistible enticement of a free vacation (to a tropical island paradise, making stuff up while he was lying under a palm tree listening to the surf pound on the shore and drinking his favorite beverage) is pure b-s and everybody know it. Niger is *nobody's* idea of a vacation destination. Wilson came back with inconvenient information and BushCo (in the broadest sense) went after him with everything they could find, and the consequences be damned (as they have since found out). It's really that simple.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    How about asking for documents from the CIA authorizing the trip? Somehow had to sign-off on his plane ticket, reimbursables, don't you think? It might lead us to the actual official who suggested Wilson.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#16)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    DA – Put the whole thing in:
    The administration never “claimed.” It quoted a British claim…”
    Read Bush’s SOTU. Tenet’s comments are after the fact. I mean it is clear to me that I shouldn’t have had the shrimp with extra garlic for lunch today.. You write:
    “The full Senate committee report says that CPD officials "could not recall how the office decided to contact"
    I had a friend who couldn’t recall for his wife how he managed to come home at 1AM with lipstick on his shirt and his underwear on wrong side out. And your next point is? BTW – Thanks for the link to one of my best common sense points. It isn’t often I get help from the Left. And no, I don’t know why she recommended him. I would speculate she mentioned what was going on and he asked her to do it. But, hey, maybe she just wanted him out of the house for a while. Et al – One point that doesn’t get much play is that this was his second trip. Nothing like sending an agent back to allow him to confirm that his first effort wasn’t a mistake. I mean, why send someone else? I mean, we don't want our opinions challenged, do we? As you like to say, "Move along folks, nothing to see here."

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Roberts made stuff up and leaked it. He lied and leaked propaganda for a long time in order to fulfil the neocon agenda of war with Iraq. Pincus is telling us that here, and, apart from the excellent Plame time line he provides, is only telling us that.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#19)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    DA writes:
    Gotta reliable source that the Niger trip he wrote about in the NYT was his second trip?(Aside from Newswack, WorldNutDaily, AIM.com. etc). A few links, thats all we ask.
    Well, I typically don’t link to the link that is in the post. And I never referenced the NYT. But since you wrote:
    “You need to do a little better close reading..”
    Well, I will give you a short excerpt from it.
    “Over the past months, however, the CIA has maintained that Wilson was chosen for the trip by senior officials in the Directorate of Operations counterproliferation division (CPD) -- not by his wife -- largely because he had handled a similar agency inquiry in Niger in 1999. On that trip, Plame, who worked in that division, had suggested him because he was planning to go there, according to Wilson and the Senate committee report. The 2002 mission grew out of a request by Vice President Cheney on Feb. 12 for more information about a Defense Intelligence Agency report”
    Hey, all I know is what I read in the Washington Post. And I am sure your local JC offers a remedial reading course.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#20)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Ahhh yes
    Senior Bush administration officials told a different story about the trip's origin in the days between July 8 and July 12, 2003. They said that Wilson's wife was working at the CIA dealing with weapons of mass destruction and that she suggested him for the Niger trip, according to three reporters.

    The Bush officials passing on this version were apparently attempting to undercut the credibility of Wilson, who on Sunday, July 6, 2003, said on NBC's "Meet the Press" and in The Washington Post and the New York Times that he had checked out the allegation in Niger and found it to be wrong. He criticized President Bush for misrepresenting the facts in his January 2003 State of the Union address when he said Iraq had attempted to purchase uranium from Africa.
    Plame has/had no authority to 'send' anyone anywhere. Her husband, who had personal contacts in the region, was selected by the CIA. As it turns out, everything he said was correct, everything bush said in the SOTU was wrong. Golly, and who are ya gonna believe now!?

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Obviously he will believe Bushwacker.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#22)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Squeakster, my post wasn't aimed at anyone, I just completed the WasPost quote from a previous commenter's post. Besides, who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes!? ;-)

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#23)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    sailor - In your case that is a difficult question. ;-)
    he had handled a similar agency inquiry in Niger in 1999. On that trip, Plame, who worked in that division, had suggested him because he was planning to go there, according to Wilson and the Senate committee report.
    Okay, we have confirmation that she did it once. No stretch at all to see the second time.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#24)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    I'm not sure why some commenters insist on making this a personal matter. The facts are that Plame had no ability to 'send' anyone anywhere. Bush lied, Wilson told the truth. Someone in the WH, at the least, subverted the WOT for political gains, at the most, they committed treason. 'nuff said.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    Roberts made the whole story up. Roberts' 'view' was swallowed whole by the MSM.... and to make matters worse, as popular theories have it, Roberts may have conspired with other arch neocons such as Leeden, Bolton, Miller, Feith, Cheney, plus Chalabi, Italian Neo-Fascists, Mosad.,(other scary people were certainly involved), to actually break in to the Niger Rome Embassy on Jan 1 /01, to create the niger forgeries, and to leak it to the press. All for the cause of Imperial ambition waged through various types oof 'war'.

    Re: Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson (none / 0) (#27)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    DA writes:
    Well, PPJ, I meant if there were a trip closer in time to 2002 than the one in 1999.
    Uh huh. Sure. Can't admit a mistake, eh? Re - NYT - So now we're supposed to read something you have mentioned for context? DA - Save the psycho babble and quit dancing. You simply got caught up in thinking I had made a mistake and got trapped. As for getting excited when telling you something that I thought was important, well, I would first have to think changing your opinion was important. You may quote me. I don't.

    Pincus on Plame: Who Really Sent Joseph Wilson to Niger? | 22 comments (22 topical)