“Moreover, lots of students take amphetamine or methamphetamine occasionally to study for exams or write papers, and most of them don't enjoy it much. That bulks up the denominator of the addict-to-total-user ratio with people who never use the amphetamines recreationally.”

“I have never heard anyone who knows anything about drug abuse assert that methamphetamine -- snorted, smoked, or injected not under medical supervision -- is anything but an insanely vicious drug of abuse.”

“someone needs to tell the extreme libertarians that not all illicit drugs are equally safe. Some illegal drugs are actually quite nasty.”

The cook and anyone assisting the cook will be exposed to phosphine, hydrogen chloride, iodine, anhydrous ammonia, and solvents at levels that are above those allowed by law in occupational settings and, in some cases, above those levels determined to be immediately dangerous to life and health. Third party bystanders, including children and infants, are likely to be exposed to levels of those same chemicals that may cause severe and long-lasting health concerns. This is especially true of children and infants who are rapidly growing and more susceptible to chemical exposures in the home environment. Law enforcement, fire, and emergency services personnel may be exposed to high levels of these chemicals as they investigate clandestine methamphetamine laboratories. This is especially true if they enter an area where a laboratory is in operation but also may be true if the laboratory is not in operation at the time. Residual chemicals deposited on surfaces of the house as well as boxes of chemicals stored in the house may result in significant exposures to investigating personnel. The area used to produce methamphetamine and surrounding areas will be contaminated with a number of chemicals including hydrogen chloride, iodine, solvents, and the methamphetamine itself. Levels of these compounds may remain in the area for an extended period of time (at least 6 months) and may result in exposures to individuals that were not associated with the cook and, in fact, never knew of the existence of the methamphetamine production.

Some of our problems are self-inflicted but others are a direct result of America oppressing, demonizing, and isolating gay people. The very serious effects of oppression on gay people have been long apparent—those of us living on the West Coast know that crystal meth has been steadily killing gay men for years. Historically, gay people have had significantly higher addiction rates than those found in the straight world. In short, too many of us have been torching our lives for decades now with coke, Special K, GHB, poppers, and even good old alcohol. But the real story is not told in the media, because that would require straight people to take responsibility for the harm they have caused us. On the other hand, it would be far too easy to say that gay people have simply been victims of the dominant society. Like many other gay men, I have lived in a state of crisis for my entire adult life and have even found pleasure in the sense of purpose these crises instill. While the '80s and early '90s were a devastating time for me, I briefly shared a sense of purpose with other gay people during the marches, fundraisers, and funerals. But by 1994, I had lost my lover of 10 years and burned out on the intensity of activism. Alone again, I found solace in alcohol and drugs, including crystal meth. Had I looked deeper, I would have seen that I had always felt self-destructive and isolated, even from other gay people. I believe many young gay men still feel that way. I began working at the Van Ness Recovery House in Los Angeles to research a book on crystal meth. The book is now written, but I'm still working there because, for the first time since the days of ACT UP, I feel a sense of connection with other gay people. The overwhelming majority of the residents I deal with on a daily basis are gay men (there are also a few transgenders, lesbians, and even the occasional straight person) who have lost everything to drugs (most frequently crystal meth) and alcohol. Nearly all of them are HIV-positive as a direct result of their drug use, but many of them will die from addiction long before HIV can kill them.

Freedom isn't free, it means putting up with a lot of morons and their bad habits, but I wouldn't have it any other way. The alternative is a tyrannical nanny state.

Back on topic. The problem with the prohibitionists when it comes to drugs is the enormous assumption that making it legal will cause more abuse. It's illegal and it's a problem. How do you know that a regulated legal system is going to be worse? So far, the problems are happening under prohibition. Why should we accept your view that it's the right model?

It's illegal and it's a problem.

“Neither is freedom absolute. It should be weighed against the desires and needs of society.”

“Absolute freedom is anarchy and I don't think you support that.”

My use of meth does not infringe on any of your innate rights. Certainly all the peripheral crimes do; contaminating neighborhoods, endangering children, and so forth, but not simply ingesting the drug.

As such society has no desires, no needs, no rights. The regulation of individual rights by society is simply the prohibition of unpopular behaviors through force by a majority; simple thuggery.

Meth is a prescription drug Desoxyn

Mark Kleiman on the myth that the meth crisis is a myth.

meth is a HUGE problem

“The problem is, unless you live in the neat little world of libertarianism, where we're all little independent units who interact purely by choice, one's use of highly addictive and poisonous drugs always has effects on other people in the world. And you can't make that go away simply by dismissing those effects as "peripheral crimes."”

“This is true if we live in a vacuum. You cannot separate the consequences of the act from the act itself,”

“I disagree, most laws are prohibitionary by their very nature. Using that logic, laws criminalizing murder, rape, burgalry etc are thuggery?”

I know that this is a very hard thing to get your head wrapped around, but what we're trying to do here is actually have a conversation as to whether it's possible that legalization (careful, don't hyperventilate), combined with regulation and different approaches to different drugs, might actually work better than the current system in terms of the overall cost in human life and well-being.

We both know that there are folks that can and have used meth without breaking any law other than that prohibiting purchase and possession.

[where they do not directly conflict with those of others]

but 'As of November 1, 1995, the distinction between methamphetamine types has been eliminated and l-methamphetamine is treated the same as d-methamphetamine under the sentencing guidelines.

Do you not believe that the legality and accessibility of alcohol is a signifcant factor in the difference?

Show me the prevolence of backyard stills during prohibition vs. today if you are worried about having labs everywhere.

someone using almost any other drug can still walk. Drunks cannot even stand up.

Some people would still do it to avoid costs associated with the "legal" purchase.

“But meth is not available over the counter or by prescription and the illegal use of otherwise legal drugs is still prohibited, so what do we gain with legalization.”

“Yes that is true, but we cannot simply remove the others, who's use impacts society negatively, from the equation. If we could, I'd be all for it.”

“I equate meth use to offenses that directly conflict with the rights of others.”

Alcohol prohibition despite its repeal was effective in reducing the social problems associated with alcohol consumption.

The majority of people caught up in the criminal process around drugs were caught because of a behavior inconsistant with private recreational use that came to the attention of law enforcement in the first place.

Desoxyn is l-methamphetamine which is not psycho-active and found in some medications.

Brand name: Desoxyn. Excessive doses of this medication can produce addiction. METHAMPHETAMINE HAS A HIGH POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE. IT SHOULD THUS BE TRIED ONLY IN WEIGHT REDUCTION PROGRAMS FOR PATIENTS IN WHOM ALTERNATIVE THERAPY HAS BEEN INEFFECTIVE. ADMINISTRATION OF METHAMPHETAMINE FOR PROLONGED PERIODS OF TIME IN OBESITY MAY LEAD TO DRUG DEPENDENCE AND MUST BE AVOIDED. PARTICULAR ATTENTION SHOULD BE PAID TO THE POSSIBILITY OF SUBJECTS OBTAINING METHAMPHETAMINE FOR NON-THERAPEUTIC USE OR DISTRIBUTION TO OTHERS, AND THE DRUG SHOULD BE PRESCRIBED OR DISPENSED SPARINGLY.

The user you describe, the recreational one who's use does not impact society, is rarely if ever caught, and if caught rarely if ever faces significant punishment as a first time offender

The recreational user who does not harm anyone should not be faced with the threat of punishment.

I believe that they do not face punishment, until they come to the attention of law enforcement

So tell me, what criminal activity drew the attention of law enforcement, besides the simple act of enjoying a smoke?

You called attention to yourself while doing it. Is it so bad to want you to be more descreet about your use?

Only the mj is illegal, and no one has ever given me a good reason why.

“See, that's exactly it, if grilled cheese were illegal, I'd happily choose to eat PB&J and deliberately choose not to spend any time dwelling on grilled cheese.”

Well, kdog, is not every law stopping someone from doing something they feel will give them happiness?

But, by going over the speed limit, you put yourself and others at a higher risk of a fatal crash. That's why there's a limit. If you smoke pot, you're not harming anyone or putting anyone in danger, except your own danger of being arrested.

Ok, speeding is dangerous...Is second hand smoke dangerous? If someone is smoking in say, the public parking lot at a concert, can they control where the excess smoke goes? How many times have you smelled marijuana from someone else smoking it? Every time you smelled it, you've ingested it no? Perhaps the amounts are miniscule, but you have ingested it.

P.S. Last time I checked...This thread was about myths of methamphetamine not marijuana. To that end, I believe many publications accentuate the dangers of meth to sell more magazines. So what? That's a consumer beware type issue and if you're that interested in it, should do your own research.

Really? Are you serious? Have you ever smelled a skunk? Were you ingesting skunk spray?

This link should give you a good idea about how much it harms you. Refer especially to point number 4.

Magazines making it sound worse than it actually is lose credibility which is definately not good if we want to deter people from using the drug.

I'm tired of hearing all the bs that people tell me to try to get me to believe what they want me to believe instead of giving me facts or well supported opinions and allowing me to form my own opinion.

Well, there are two sides to almost any issue, and certainly there is room for disagreement. A well supported opinion is (Regardless of whether you agree with it or not) someone's attempt to get you to view the facts their way. Nothing more nothing less.

You have acess to all the facts you'll ever need to make an intelligent decision about methamphetamine, everyone does, yet not everyone makes intelligent decisions.

When people are taken to jail for use of a drug like this, why not send them to rehab instead of jail?

I'm all for giving persons who genuinely want to quit all the help and assistance we can. The difficult (Or really not so difficult) part about that is separating the people who want help from the people who want to appear to want help to lessen their sentence.

Most of my experience does not come from contacting recreational users of drugs. It comes from seeing the absolute worst that use and addiction do to to people, familes and communities.

Some of my most memorable moments are when people come to me, thanking me for arresting them, or when I see a person who I had previously thought was hopeless has turned it around, got cleaned up, takes responsibility for their actions and is making a difference in their lives.

Please dont let that affect the way you treat the average citizen. I thnk to many cops start to assume that everyone is like that.

I would recommend you go to your local law enforcement agency and try to participate in a ride-a-long program or a local citizens' academy if they have one.

LOL, I was not drunk in publiCK, I was drunk in a bar. They threw me into publiCK.

We have a house that was used for a huge P2P lab and the property was so contaminated that is say for nearly 10 years before the land value exceeded the cleanup costs.