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Cyrus Kar Released

by TChris

Update: Kar discusses his confinement:

"I don't hold anything against them for holding us," he said. "What I hold against them is they put us in a cell and forgot us."

*****

Cyrus Kar, the filmmaker who has been detained in a military prison in Bahgdad for seven weeks, was released Sunday. (TalkLeft background here.) Justifying the detention, military officials claim that Kar represented "an imperative security threat to Iraq" which had been resolved "appropriately." In other words, there was no evidence that Kar was a threat at all, and unfavorable publicity forced the military to release him.

While the military claims that Kar was given a meaningful hearing, and that his release shows how well detention review panels work, Kar's lawyers cut through the spin:

"He was never told what if any charges were being made against him," said one of the lawyers, Mark D. Rosenbaum. "He never had access to a lawyer. He was never told that he passed a lie-detector test. He was virtually incommunicado. That's not a model detention policy. And that was for 50 days - for a guy who got into the wrong cab."

Kar's ordeal is not quite over.

American officials told him that his United States passport had been destroyed in the course of an effort to test its authenticity, his lawyers said, and that he might have to wait a week before a new one could be issued.

In addition to messing with his passport, Kar's military captors were not good custodians of his other property.

Mr. Kar's camera and laptop computer were also missing or stolen, the lawyers said. The school ring he got with his master's degree from Pepperdine University was gone, his relatives said, and even most of his clothes had been lost.

Fortunately, Kar recovered the film he shot for his documentary.

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    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#1)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    I don't mean to enlarge anybodies hat size but, Power to Talk Left and the Blogs! Many kudos! I like to think you do have an impact!

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    so, he was taken into custody under suspicious circumstances in a war zone with regular bombings and held in custody untill being cleared. I am trying to contain the outrage that he wasn't given access to a lawyer.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    Ed, I'm amazed at how quickly your reactionary tendencies are so quick. The military has proved utterly inept in Iraq at "detaining" people (mostly innocent), or protecting anyone from anything. But if you wanna trust them here, when they have no track record (either in Iraq or in the past) of being truthful with the American people. I'd expect a little more intellectual rigor from a free American, my friend.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    so, he was taken into custody under suspicious circumstances in a war zone with regular bombings and held in custody untill being cleared. I am trying to contain the outrage that he wasn't given access to a lawyer.
    Ed, you and others like you don't seem to understand the waste of time, effort and resources involved when you arrest the wrong guy. Among other things, it means the right guy is probably still out there somewhere. Not having a better system to adjudicate guilt or innocence (or more precisely, not using the one we have)hurts the war effort.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    tell me how you know of anyone's "innocence" based on nothing. someone gets arrested in this country with our system-they spend time in jail if unable to make bond-even with a speedy trial demand, they sit in jail for significant periods (more than 50 days). you now want treatment superior to, not equal to, our civil system for someone detained in a war zone. if that is what counts for intellectual rigor here, heaven help us.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#7)
    by TomStewart on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    He's lucky to be alive.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    apples and oranges unless you suggest we should have bond hearings for those detained. Do you? that seems to be the general idea here. should we release suspects in war zones on a promise to appear. again, heaven help us. his case was investigated and he was released-what more could you possibly want for the guy-real people die in the explosions if your bond hearing goes wrong. these aren't criminal cases-will that ever sink in?

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    Ed, So in Iraq you believe in guilty until proven innocent? Just trying to be clear. Also, what reason do you have to believe the company line on this issue? If, for moronic PR purposes, they lie about simple things like how Pat Tillman was killed (lied to his family!!), why on earth do you think you would be getting anything approaching the ugly reality of each of these individual cases? We started the war in Iraq (which had NOTHING to do with Al Qaeda), but still want to blame everyone else for the quagmire of blood and abuse it has become. Keep marching in your straight line and saluting the brass, that's your right. I don't like it, I don't think it's wise or productive or based on anything except the reactionary vengeful impulse EVERY creature possesses. I had it, for a day or two, but then I started using my free American mind and came to a much different conclusion that our fabulously inept and corrupt president.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    who thinks up your slogans? guilty until proven innocent-again, you don't appear to be processing the fact that we are not investigating street crimes. if parties in a war zone are in a vehicle which contains items which may be used as bomb timers(and bombs set by the Minutemen, as they are known on the left, are regularly blowing up dozens of men, women and children), how long in your infinite wisdom should they be held? do you err on the side of releasing potential bombers without conducting an investigation? thank god you weren't in charge during WWII. we have every indication that the matter was investigated and the guy released. to you, that is somehow an indictment-to me and my guess is most americans, it is common sense.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    I've gotta side with Ed on this one. It's too bad this guy had his life turned upside down, but I don't know what a realistic alternative would be. Hold him, make sure he's OK, let him go. Rea, what should they have done? Dadler, you're absolutely right when you talk about intellectual rigor in posts. There has to be more to making arguments than arguing. Actually, I didn't think you used much intellectual rigor in the post where you brought it up (little too much hyperbole for me), but thought you did a great job in the last post ("...so in Iraq..."). And I positively am arguing for a non-equal, inferior system in a war zone. For what should be, IMO, obvious reasons, American-style trial proceedings can't work in a war (whether Iraq should BE a war zone is a completely different matter; the fact is that it is).

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    It's not a war zone, congress never declared war and bush declared 'mission accomplished.' He was an American, held by America, and was only released thru outrage via public opinion.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:06 PM EST
    ed, scott...you both convincingly put forth yet one more reason why we should get the hell outta there ASAP. Thanks guys.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:07 PM EST
    Sailor, of course it's a war zone. It's a waste of space to suggest otherwise. Why, because Congress didn't declare war? They didn't in Vietnam, either (insert knee-jerk quagmire response here). Ernesto, what reasons were those? I know there are some, but don't know what you're referring to.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    "but, but, but iraq in nothing like vietnam!" so say the wingnuts. but to follow your twisted analogy; do you really think AmVets riding in a cab while visiting south vietnam during the early '70s would have been secretly detained and held w/o charges by american forces? And it was easy to check Kar's story, he had a passport, his AmVet card, his fingerprints. The only reason he was released was because of public outcry. It's a shame to treat anyone this way; it should never be blue on blue.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    easy to check story in a war zone when the person under suspicion is thousands of miles from home. could we easily have checked the story of John Walker Lindh as well? if that is the best the left can offer, you are better off not letting the public know about your views.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    tell me how, other than conducting an investigation, that one "clears" someone allegedly in a car with timers which could be used to detonate explosives. do you just take their word for it? give them a bond and tell them to report back when the investigation is complete? Remind us mere mortals of your superior intelligence.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    what reasons were those? I know there are some, but don't know what you're referring to.
    I was referring to the indefinite military detention of anyone we suspect of anything in Iraq. You were justifying it, and I was saying that it is one more reason we need to get the hell outta there. The main reason of course is that we are having our own people killed and injured on a regular basis for nothing. Guess that one never occurred to you, though. Hey, no surprise there.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    for someone of the world, you don't show much sense. indefinite military detention-he was released so strike that. the Defense Department charging someone-I can't think of any reason they would do so. they are conducting a war, not investigating a street crime. he was disappeared, yet somehow everyone knew he was in DOD custody.

    Re: Cyrus Kar Released (none / 0) (#22)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:09 PM EST
    apparently ed didn't get the memo. The dod is not conducting a war, they are merely training 'security forces' for a 'democratically elected' gov't. And americans are holding other americans without charges, without access to the Am embassy, without evidence and without cause. Just like a dictatorship does. The army had immediate access to Kar's DD214, his MIL ID, his passport, his face and his fingerprints. What part of 'American' and due process and the Constitution do these wingnuts have a problem with?