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New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo and Kandahar

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Tue Jun 28, 2005 at 12:56:17 PM EST
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A Russian national and Muslim cleric held at Guantanamo and Kandahar and released says he witnessed episodes of Koran abuse there.

A Russian citizen released last year from Guantanamo Bay prison said on Tuesday U.S. guards at the camp regularly threw copies of the Koran into toilets. "In Cuba, they used to take them (the Koran) and throw them, take them and throw them, into lavatories or elsewhere. It happened regularly and this was to provoke protests," Airat Vakhitov, released from Guantanamo a year ago after 18 months in the camp, told reporters.

As for Kandahar, he said:

In Kandahar, they tore up copies of the Qur'an and even put it in a bucket of feces," he told the Associated Press.

Monday, several of 17 released Pakistani detainees also claim to have observed Koran desecration while at Guantanamo.

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    New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo and Kandahar | 21 comments (21 topical)
    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#1)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Uh huh. Sure.

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#2)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Look over there! The liberal media!

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Right Jim, Everyone else is lying, wrong, delusional. Every report of abuse is the result of a disgruntled detainee. Only you have the insight and self-critical ability to discern the truth. All Christians who've accepted Christ are going to heaven, all others going to hell. There is no god but Allah. Wake up. We are violating our own standards everywhere we look. Because fear has ruled the day. Fear and the powerful ignorance of an administraion utterly lacking in so much as an ounce of imagination.

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Screw koran abuse, focus on the abuse of human beings...you know, flesh and blood, not inanimate objects. Complaining about korans is beyond ridiculous. The military should not have to concern themselves with the foolish superstitions of others, and instead should concern themselves with abiding by basic standards of human rights. I also feel making a hub-bub over Korans only serves to help the neo-con agenda. It reinforces the stereotype of the ever-complaining, politically correct liberal. Flesh and blood before bound pages!

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#5)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Is it lazy reporting to not mention that the last round of investigations determined the worst and majority of desecrations were done by detainees?

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#6)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    I agree Kdog, only problem is that it propels the myth that this is a war against Islam and the radicals use it to recruit. Just like they use Franklin Grahams recent statement on Islam. There is a lot of bashing of muslim clerics (rightfully so) who incite violence and there is fuel to the fire over these types of acts....

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Point taken JLV. However, it bothers me when koran abuse gets more play in the media than human abuse. If all we are abusing are korans, that would be one thing.

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#8)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    I am with you kdog, but since it was not in the "prison log" it never happened......

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    kdog, i agree. but all abuse that gets real time in the media is good at this point in time. one wishes, however, it were more inclined to the human suffering aspect. and not, as you rightly protest, the suffering of paper or symbol.

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#10)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Stop passing out copies of the Koran, stop calling out prayer five times a day and start feeding the prisoners the same food that the guards eat, not the special food.

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Roy, what credible evidence was presented that devout muslims would trash their own bibles? Do you really trust the gov't to investigate itself? Why are they afraid of an independent investigation? kdog, JLV - At least it's not the flag;-)

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#12)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Roy, what credible evidence was presented that devout muslims would trash their own bibles?
    I won't defend the credibility of the investigation (see below), but as for devoutness, isn't murder a sin under Islam?
    Do you really trust the gov't to investigate itself?
    Not really, no. I've had to accept that Bush & Friends lied to get support for invading Iraq, so Fedgov's credibility is pretty darned low. It just stood out to me that the Reuters articler reported "splashing it with urine and kicking it" based on that investigation but nothing more. If they trust the investigation enough to report those details, why not report the fuller context?

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#13)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Ugh, wingnuts. Are we supposed to believe that our prison guards who will kill a guy and photograph themselves next to his corpse giving a thumbs-up (even the Nazis didn't do that) won't pee on his book?

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimcee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    So this Russian guy was in Khandahar? I wonder what he was doing there? Perhaps he was a Chechian (sp) al Qaeda member? I don't know but his statement seems rather suspect to me. I really don't care what was done to a Koran. For all I care wrap it in an American flag along with a Bible and a Torah and set it ablaze and guess what? I still don't care.

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:39 PM EST
    Roy, the 10 commandments say "thou shall not kill", but a lot of christians don't think it applies to the death penalty. I imagine some muslims can perform the same mental gymnastics. Muslims also think christ was a great philosopher, they just don't believe he was the son of god. fbi agents said the koran was peed on, guards admitted they peed on it. But the gov't only admitted it after so many credible witnesses outside of their control came forward. Until then they lied and denied. The real problem to me is extremists in every religion who cherry pick phrases out of their holy books to justify what they wanted to do in the first place.

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:41 PM EST
    et al... OH MY GOD...we are abusing Korans!! Is there no end to these terrible acts? Oh the humanity......! We are such freakin animals aren't we...? I say we start sawing off heads.... Nobody (on the left anyway) seemed to care about that happening to Americans. Then you guys can truly compare us to people like Hitler I can't wait for Hillary to fix all this. All the terrorism will automatically stop when she gets in. Oh wait... I seem to remember her husband's reign was filled with terrorist acts against Americans.. Nevermind....LMAO

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#17)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:41 PM EST
    The Russian's claims are nit-picked here, with lots of links. He's contradicting himself and reporting hearsay (though the article I just linked has no problems reporting hearsay to show that he's contradicting himself). Take it for whatever it's worth.

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:41 PM EST
    of course, how could I forget; all those detainees were caught chopping people's heads off.

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#19)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:41 PM EST
    of course, how could I forget; all those detainees were caught chopping people's heads off.
    Obviously they can make mistakes and pick up people who haven't done much wrong. That's why some have been released. But it seems like we've reached the point where all allegation of misconduct are seen as credible, regardless of source, corroboration, consistency, or plausibility. That's largely Bush's fault; he's done a lot of evil stuff so it's natural to think he's responsible for other evil stuff. I think it's also the left's over-eagerness to make it look bad. Sort of a "we don't need proof he did X because we know he did Y" mentality.

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#20)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:42 PM EST
    the left didn't create bush's credibility gap. BTW, here's a nice quote about credibility gaps:
    “The administration should clarify its intent [...] ‘People lack confidence in the credibility of our government.’ Even our allies are beginning to suspect what we say, he charged. ‘It’s a difficult thing today to be informed about our government even without all the secrecy,’ he said. ‘With the secrecy, it’s impossible. The American people will do what’s right when they have the information they need.”
    Guess who said that?

    Re: New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo a (none / 0) (#21)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:42 PM EST
    Don Rumsfeld in the Chicago Tribune, 4/13/66 speaking about vietnam. The more things change ...

    New Allegations of Koran Abuse at Guantanamo and Kandahar | 21 comments (21 topical)