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Strategy for Defeating John Bolton

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 11:21:09 AM EST
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Sean Paul at Agonist is asking for thoughts on the best strategy to defeat the nomination of John Bolton as U.N. Ambassador. [link fixed.] For more, visit StopJohnBolton.

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    Strategy for Defeating John Bolton | 26 comments (26 topical)
    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#1)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    --ADVISORY: stupid snark follows-- Hmm, tire-iron on the kneecap as he returns from ice-skating--oh! That didn't work too well, as I remember. --ADVISORY: stupid snark has ended--

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    Uhh, the link goes to a story about a the sentancing of a drug addicted DA. Re: Bolton, RawStory.com reported that his first wife divorced him for taking her to the infamous Plato's retreat sex club, and insisting she attend group sex parties. This story went no where. If it is true, it ought to be shouted to the rooftops. Will see if I can get a link...

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    how about the truth: we don't want a strong advocate for US interests at the UN. Despite its proven corruption and majority rule of sleazy dictatorships and corruptocrats, we feel it is a place where one should speak softly and carry a smaller stick. we feel the only nation that should be subject to censure is Israel and talking until genocide is completed is a good alternative to action.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    Ok here's the link : Prehaps the killer here is that Larry Flynt made these allegations in a press release. from the release: "Corroborated allegations that Mr. Bolton’s first wife, Christina Bolton, was forced to engage in group sex have not been refuted by the State Department despite inquires posed by Hustler magazine publisher Larry Flynt concerning the allegations. Mr. Flynt has obtained information from numerous sources that Mr. Bolton participated in paid visits to Plato’s Retreat, the popular swingers club that operated in New York City in the late 1970s and early 1980s." Bolton should at least be asked about this. It's only fair....

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#5)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    Even if he likes to frequent sex clubs I have no issue with it. I have no issue with Bolton as Ambassador to the UN either. The administration has been categorizing the UN as ineffective and why not have Bolton in teh post. If the UN is ineffective and Bolton can fix that, why not hold him and Bush accountable? I don't think it will take years to undo the damage he is suspected to inflict any more than I think that some of Reagans appointments allegedly inflicted. I for one believe that the UN is stagnant, mostly because of the big 7 ignoring their allies behaviors and repudiating their enemies' similar behaviors. Bolton seems crass, ornery and not tradtional ambassador material, but for a stagnant group he may stir up some life there.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    You have problems with the UN so we should send a jerk to reform it? I don't think this bastard should represent my country. And I will continue to oppose him, as a patriotic duty. Thanks for listening..

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#7)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    No problem Mr. Bill, I think the president should appoint who he thinks is best to make the UN less um what was the word he used, was it inconsequential? Something of that nature. If that is his true belief than by all means he should appoint someone that he believes will make it a body that demands change in the world.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#8)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    The problem is that Bolton doesn't seem to want to change the UN so much as to destroy it.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    If Bolton were a combination of dean Atchison and Geo. Patton, the democrats in the senate should still stand on principle and insist on the relevant State Department documents, as the repubican senators did under Clinton. The questions about Bolton need to be addressed, not GW's need to have total control.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    ...resist temptation to attack trolls... ...resist temptation to attack trolls... ...resist temptation to attack trolls... I like what Darryl Pearce said: Hmm, tire-iron on the kneecap ...resist temptation to attack trolls... but im leaning (90%) that boiling bolton will a get recess apointment, with or without kneecaps. Shrub & co. has said many times that the un is of no account. And its seems that repugs agenda all along is to get rid of our government and anyother that ain't big corparation. ...i knew i could resist temptation to attack trolls...

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#11)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    Mr. Bill (?) The questions about Bolton have been addressed and re-addressed. Simply put he is a kick as* kind of guy that has hurt some feelings in the PC-touchy feely world of DC.... as he gets things done. The UN is as useless as tits on a board hog, and maybe Bolton can help it, maybe he can't. If he can, great. If he can't, then we should just get out and tell them to move the whole sebang to Nigeria, or some other spot that needs their finest resturants, best hotels and most expensive real estate always full up with people who have never done a real day's work in their entire life. So you guys just keep on with your games, and, unfortunately, the Repubs will continue to have no real competition and the real problems of the country will continue to be not addressed.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    PPJ aka Jim at June bolton is a creep that lies.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#13)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    deleted

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    let's put in Durbin. Then, when the humanitarians there put out a "Zionism is racism" edict or some other such censure against the US, he could agree. It might sell out the US but the posters here would back him.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:24 PM EST
    I for one would like to see more action from the UN and if Bolton who many consider abrasive can do the job why not? I am certain that with all the press, there will be lots of eyes of Bolton and the UN, which to me represents a win win. I don't like the guy, but I would definitely like to see if the blowhard could manage anything at the UN or if he will come home with his tail between his legs saying "no one will play nice with me".

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:24 PM EST
    Ed, isnt this kind of black and white thinking. now i dont know how durbin would do, but to suggest that the un rep has to be either a proven bully or a wimp dosent make much sence. We have to figure out some way to live on this little spec of dust in the universe without destroying everybody that dosent think like we do. compromise, not my way or the hi-way. But then of course we dont get to have all the facts about bolton becaus of bush the obstructionist.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#17)
    by Slado on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:24 PM EST
    This is very simple. The president who won the last election gets to nominate who he want. Since Bolton is his nominee the Senate shoul advise and consent. This means if the guy is "unqualified" or "commited a crime" they should adise the president not to nominate him. Since he isn't either of those things they should consent to the nomination. No matter you political leanings these are the rules. The Dem's are fillibusturing Bolton for political reasons. If the Senate won't do it's job the President should appoint him during the recess. Because gues what. 54million people gave him the right to do that. When we let politicians dissavow election results and change the rules we're all in trouble. Be in civil rights legislation, judicial nominations or dopey UN appointments. This is just a giant game of it's my ball and I'm going home being played by the dems.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#18)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:24 PM EST
    slado - That's it. SD - Just insults, eh? No arguments? No pointing flaws in my thinking? Hmmm, I hoped that your time off would have refreshed your mind. Oh well, I see it didn't. So much BS, so little time. da lurker writes
    But then of course we dont get to have all the facts about bolton becaus of bush the obstructionist.
    I know this is hopeless, but just to give you one chance to prove you are not just a babbler. Prove that comment with links and/or valid argument.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#19)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    The Bush administration's intransigence on the Bolton nomination is quite calculated. I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt to change the filibuster rules again in the hopes of placing this reactionary loudmouth punk in the UN. This nomination is much more than an example of the contempt with which the Bush administration holds the UN, it's part of their long-term strategy, a strategy in which the neocon philosophy substitutes the UN for the old Soviet Union. Either way It seems like a recess appointment is imminent since George Bush and his neocon overlords desperately need a provocateur in a post where a diplomat might diffuse world tensions. Their war agenda is dependent upon his ability to alienate and provoke other countries in the Middle East into a wider conflict. Regardless of the fact that coalition forces in Iraq are unable to secure the country, or even maintain basic infrastructure like oil production or even water and power in the largest cities like Baghdad, the neocons are quietly advising Bush to move the bulk of our troops to the Syrian and Iranian borders, with the stated agenda of preventing foreign fighters from entering the country. But once those troops have been massed on the border, it will be easy enough to create an incident which precipitates the need to invade Syria or Iran. The new American Empire is going to need an unfettered oil supply if we're going to effectively implement the new world order.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#20)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    Well if coercion and intimdation are how you want to carry out diplomacy, then Bolton's your man. But if the US wants to assume it's self appointed responsibility to LEAD the world, IMHO no one will follow if this man is our ambassador.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#21)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    et al - Can anyone tell me anything of any significance, or just anything, period, that our current approach to the UN has obtained for us? Come on, let's see it. Let's face it. The UN is as revolting as a glass of spit. What you have is a bunch of people spending someone else's money to support a lifestyle they do not deserve. It should be reformed or put out of business.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#22)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    Well Jim, let me think. Our approach to the UN on Iraq was to violate with regularity the UN-agreed no-fly zone guidelines in preparation for an undeclared war. We veto any SC actions to stop Isreal from invading it's neighbors or revealing it's WMD. We lie to them (see C. Powell 2/03). WE bug the offices of other delegates. Is that the current approach you are referring to?

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#23)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    What you have is a bunch of people spending someone else's money to support a lifestyle they do not deserve Save it for Duke Cunningham, Reverend.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#24)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:25 PM EST
    As much as my stomach turns on this I have to back PPJ, what was the original intention of the UN? What have they accomlished in the last ten years? Do UN resolutions have any meaning if they are never enforced (see Israel)? The US bullies the UN constantly and Russia and China are practically immune from censure for murder and torture. Again, I think John Bolton has the personality of a turnip but with all the screaming and yelling by this administration about the uselessness of the UN, they ought to have the opportunity to put the person in there that they believe will invoke change. If he doesn't call it another failure in the long line of them for this administration. Want to see failure, look at how Iraq is now considered the primary breeding and training ground for terrorists. I thought this war was going to make us safer? Turns out, those of us who argued that it would create more terrorists and fuel the fire were right. go figure.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#26)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:28 PM EST
    Slado, we only had two prior. I would have said Definitely no we would not have been attacked from 2001-2005. Now with Iraq becoming fertile training ground for terrorists, we are not safer. We should have never went to war period. And, being that you are new here, you have obviously no clue as to my feelings on whether or not we should stay the course in Iraq. I have always advocated that we have to stay in Iraq now that we are there. I could not agree more with Mr. Powell, that if we broke it, we need to fix it. I can also not agree more with those (including myself) who said that attacking Iraq without UN approval and a broad consensus (like we had in afghanistan) would be a critical mistake as it relates to terrorist recruiting. And it is proving true. No need to celebrate as it is a sad day. Perhaps your idea of safety and mine differ vastly, but when the CIA reports that Iraq is a fertile training ground for terrorists I feel a bit more insecure. The arguments leading up to the war were simple. You better be damned sure they had WMD and you better find them. They did not have them hence they did not find them. The direct result of non UN approval and heavy criticism throughout the world over the war is new jihadists, at least according to the CIA.

    Re: Strategy for Defeating John Bolton (none / 0) (#27)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:28 PM EST
    Even Kenneth Pollack, one of the nation's leading experts on Iraq, whose book The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq made the most authoritative case for overthrowing Saddam Hussein, says, "My instinct tells me that the Iraq war has hindered the war on terrorism. You had to deal with Al Qaeda first, not Saddam. We had not crippled the Al Qaeda organization when we embarked on the Iraq war." The damage to U.S. interests is hard to overestimate. Rohan Gunaratna, a Sri Lankan academic who is regarded as one of the world's leading authorities on Al Qaeda, points out that "sadness and anger about Iraq, even among moderate Muslims, is being harnessed and exploited by terrorist and extremist groups worldwide to grow in strength, size, and influence." Similarly, Vincent Cannistraro, a former chief of counterterrorism at the CIA under presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush, says the Iraq war "accelerated terrorism" by "metastasizing" Al Qaeda. Today, Al Qaeda is more than the narrowly defined group that attacked the United States on September 11, 2001; it is a growing global movement that has been energized by the war in Iraq.

    Strategy for Defeating John Bolton | 26 comments (26 topical)