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Watch a Taser Incident

By Jeralyn, Section Crime Policy
Posted on Sun Jun 19, 2005 at 02:02:15 PM EST
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Are police too quick to use tasers? They say no. This is incredible.

The Aug. 6, 2004 incident began as a normal traffic stop but took an ominous turn when the driver refused to get out of her SUV. It ended with a Boynton Beach Police officer hitting the 22-year-old woman twice with his Taser during her arrest.

Sgt. Sedrick Aiken, a training officer in the Boynton Beach Police Department, narrates the traffic stop, including the moment Officer Rich McNevin (in video) spots Victoria Goodwin’s speeding Isuzu Rodeo and when he twice hits her with 50,000 volts with a Taser. Post reporter Dani Davies interviewed Aiken.

  According to Aiken, McNevin correctly used the stun gun to subdue the driver instead of:

  • using his baton
  • physically forcing driver out of SUV
  • using pepper spray
  • getting in SUV to handcuff driver

[hat tip to Cliff]

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    Watch a Taser Incident | 47 comments (47 topical)
    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    This was very sad. Just tase them and get it over with, just for not "snapping to" and doing what the officer says. Just remember, your no longer alowed to freek out around police. dispicable

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#2)
    by drshaffer on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    This is shameful! A well trained officer could have done this stop w/o the use of a taser. I dont' see where they have reasonable suspicion and even if they did, where is the PC for arrest. How did he know it was her that was suspended? Regardless, this didnt have to happen.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Lurker, Good point. You can't do anything around a cop other than treat them like royalty or be treated like dirt. Even when they say something patently idiotic to you. Just smile and say yessir. Horrible for a country like America, but necessary. Here's my other 2 cents: Alright, she has a suspended license, a lead foot, and a lot of things wrong with her car. Oh AND no seat belt on -- sorry if I laughed when the cop said it. All this is given and, I assume, would lead to an arrest on the driving with a suspended license charge. Now, I have no idea if she got a fair suspension or not, or if she was driving to put food on the table, or whether she's a good person, an average one, or satan incarnate. All I know is what I saw and tried to hear. That said... The lady has attitude, so what? That's not a crime. And pulling away from a cop trying to grab you is NOT escalating the use of force, it is attempting to AVOID being the victim of force. Secondly, no one had patted her down as an excuse taser her a second time on the ground? Patted her down? Oh sure, any cop would see this lady as a potential physical threat. Bunk. They are trained to see EVERYONE as a threat, and it shows. The second taze seemed vengeful and retaliatory, not a reaction to any threatening move on her part. Also, don't cops make character decisions a zillion times a day, as to who to frisk and who not to, who to be suspscious of and who not to? And in our society, let's be serious, if you're loud and uppity and a SISTER...you're treated differently than an uppity white lady saying the same crap. Same if you're a black man and, we all know, worse. And I never heard this lady threaten them, only be a little stubborn. I mean, what kind of trained officer doesn't realize you're dealing with a certain personality type and that you might need to work a different angle? Cops and black Americans have a slight history, not exactly all good, and powerful perceptions and misperceptions remain on both sides. If you couldn't hear that history in this woman's tone and phrasing and mistrust, I can't help you. Additionally, just my opinion, but this is when a female cop would've come in handy; or simply MORE OFFICERS to make her aware and GIVE HER TIME to calm down. Something other than the use of electric force. I'd rather they pull her out of the car. I don't care what you say about taser pain, it's an ELECTRIC shock, excruciating for some people with lower pain thresholds, it's traumatic, debilitating, it CAN be fatal, none of which translates into "oh, we've been tased, stop your crying" bullsh*t these cops told her. They came off in the end as condescending pricks, like it was all beneath them, and let's just shock the cow and get it over with. Why so many cops feel the need to talk sh*t like this really doesn't reflect well on them or their departments. It reflects a lot of damaged personalities serving with a gun on their belt. Just as big a percentage, if not more, than you'd get in society at large. By the way, I heard the woman ask for the patrol car number after he'd told her about using radar, which in California can be challenged by checking to ensure the radar gun is working properly and THAT IS HAS BEEN SERVICED REGULARLY AS IS REQUIRED BY LAW. The cop, of course, was condescending and dismissive. When he should've given her everything she wanted to know, when he should've been BETTER than she ever expected him to be. Cops do hard, necessary work. And most do it honorably. This story, however, is not encouraging.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#4)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    “And pulling away from a cop trying to grab you is NOT escalating the use of force, it is attempting to AVOID being the victim of force.” You are flat wrong. It is resisting arrest and is most certainly an escalation of force. Placing someone under arrest necessitates a measured amount of force; the arrestee cannot be expected to cuff, search, and place themselves in the patrol car. I don’t care to argue about the exact circumstances of this particular arrest, as I haven’t yet formed a solid opinion. However, when an arrestee refuses to cooperate with the arresting officer a struggle of one form or another is anavoidable.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#5)
    by Guav on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Watching all of the videos from the beginning, I think the cop was very calm, polite, and professional the entire time—despite her poor attitude and uncooperativeness from the very beginning—and gave her MORE than enough warnings telling her that he WAS GOING TO TASE HER if she didn't get out of the car like he requested. Dadler, you'd "rather they pull her out of the car"? You mean physically lay hands on her and try to wrestle her out? You think that would be effective as she struggled and fought with them so that they had to escalate the force to maybe batons or a painful hold? Come on, get real. It's also very HARD to pull someone out of a car—I know, I've tried it. And I know you said not to say this, but I've been shocked with a 500,000 volt stun gun, and her reaction was bull**t—she's a drama queen as you can tell (she even played the race card: he pulled her over because she was black, not because she was speeding). She was an idiot. She should have shut up, taken the ticket, cooperated, and then contested the ticket in court. That's how it's done. Cops can be nice. They can also be downright a**holes. But it doesn't matter—you CAN NOT win an argument with a police officer, and being uncooperative will NEVER make it easier for you. You cooperate and then contest the charges (or press charges of your own). You don't argue with them. Just my opinion. [Ed. please don't use profanity, we get censored by law firms and business software]

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#6)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Pig, I guess we disagree. And I'll say it again, nothing she did on that tape seemed the least bit threatening. She was stubborn, that is all. The cops were impatient thugs who seemed to take an odd measure of enjoyment from it in the end. Every situation is different and, IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, where we have it on video, the only escalation of anything came from the officers, who did not use anything resembling reasonable patience or intellect in dealing with this admittedly difficult women. Now, perhaps I should've made that clear. Obviously there are times when pulling away from a cop is escalating things, when there is some kind of danger posed. This woman posed no danger to anyone at that moment. She acted like a free, if nettlesome, American in the face of authority and was treated like a pound animal in return.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Well, I found that link through SondraK's website and was pretty disturbed by it. I listened to the training officer and thought he made sense. I also know how scared cops get around a car, so can see their point. I guess I'm pleased that there isn't a lot of racial stuff flying about. -C

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    That woman was a drama queen who was wailing way out of proportion. Give me a break! She just kept going on and on and on. I don't buy it. Yes, some cops would have been more patient and been able to work things out, but when you refuse to obey a police officer + you have an attitude + you are driving on a suspended license --> then don't be totally surprised when some of that attitude comes back at you. They are human beings, too!

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#9)
    by Joe Bob on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Hmm...maybe you're right. If I ever come in contact with a cop on a short fuse or, goshdarnit, one who is having a case of the Mondays I should just take one on the chin should he not like my attitude. After all, it would be in the interests of peace and justice and I would have had it coming anyway. Come to think of it 50,000V (x2!) seems like perfectly appropriate "street justice" for giving lip to an obviously busy and frustrated peace officer. There always seems to be a reliable cohort on hand to justify any use of force by the police, no matter how unreasonable. Do you think if you spend enough time licking the proverbial police boots you will somehow be immunized from this sort of thing? Because you won't. If that were you own wife, sister, or mother getting shocked for the second time while prone on the pavement would you still find this whole situation defensible? When I look at that video I see a cop who tasered someone because he was pissed off and had a minimal justification for it. He made no effort to coax the woman out of the car and no effort to defuse the situation or wait things out. Anyone who reads TalkLeft with any regularity knows that tasers are potentially deadly. Using a taser in this situation is a grossly disproportionate use of force. A professional cop uses force only in a reasonable manner proportional to the threat at hand, no way this qualifies.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#10)
    by aw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    I'm hearing impaired and my licence has a symbol indicating that, but I always wonder whether a cop would pay attention. I realize this is not the same case, but still.... if I were the least bit stubborn about whatever and we had a problem communicating, would he/she be justified about tasering me?

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Considering the alternatives, the cop was justified. Better to use nonlethal force where no one is injured than to take the risk of the cop getting hurt. He didn't know at the time she wasn't armed. The information he did have gave him plenty of cause to pull her over and order her out of the car. The price she paid for repeated refusals to obey a lawful order when facing arrest was temporary pain.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Was the cop in fear of his or a third party's life? Would he have used his gun if his TASER wasn't available? TASERs, like guns, are potentially lethal weapons. The lethality is less with TASERs, but as long as they are marketed as "Non-Lethal" these cowboys will continue to torture and kill people with them.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#13)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    BTW, Cliff, nice to hear from you again. We be having a fais do do now, yeah? OT, do you remember Pa pa tous on a TV morning show (I know I spelled it wrong, give a yankee a break;-) I worked in La for a few years, liked a lot about the state (except boudin;-)

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Most of you are boo-hooing this woman who deliberately ignored a police order to simply step out of her car, EVEN THOUGH she broke the law, several laws actually. She had no right being behind the wheel in the first place, and she knew it. She was speeding, and was unlucky to get caught. Whereas a normal person would have pulled over, taken their lumps for being busted, she decided to be an a**. The guy was being nice to her the entire time, while she was boarderline belligerent from the beginning. The cop warned her SEVERAL TIMES that he would zap her if she didn't get out of the car, even after trying to pull her out first. I mean...what dullard is going to just continue to sit there and argue? And her "y'all racist" comment was just hilarious -- you could feel it coming. I'm not saying every cop that stops you is right (we've all had b.s. traffic stops), but that still doesn't mean that you need to piss off a guy with a gun. File a complaint later. Simply thinking before you do something stupid (including driving with a suspended license) will save you a lot of trouble with police.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    dadler, pig is right. moving your hand away from an arresting officer is considered resisting. whether or not that justifies the use of a tazer is another story.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    moving your hand away from an arresting officer is considered resisting
    It is also a basic human reaction that a well trained officewr can deal with without using a taser. I thought murder was the only crime that could get you electro-shocked, do we want to add speeding and driving with a suspended license to the list? God forbid you remind police of your freedom, it angers them and could get you killed.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#17)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    Pulling your hand away is not resisting arrest unless the policeman said the words "You're under arrest" first, No? That being said, the only comment I have about this (I'm tired of watching these) is that I never, ever give any flack to a cop during a traffic stop. It's absolutely futile and inflammatory. Most of them have very little training in human behaviour. But there are many foolish people out there who cannot grasp that simple fact.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    I'm the same way Che, but it shouldn't have to be that way. Excercising your freedom and your rights shouldn't necesitate a beating or a tasering. But for the sake of convenience, and my safety, and the fact I may have a sack of buds on me at the time...I "yes sir" 'em to death at a traffic stop, but it burns.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    Ern....is "being an a**" now punishable by high voltage? Can't we expect more from an officer of the law than responding to a "pain in the ass" with high voltage?

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#20)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    Kdog, Agree 100%

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    Are you people serious??? The nutcase started flipping out on the cop, then kept defying his request then his orders to get out the vehicle. She had plenty of warnings and deserved what she got. God, I have to keep reminding myself that when I deal with the rest of my political party, the far left tree-hugging gay liberals are included.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    kdog, Would you support higher taxes so we can provide better training, equipment and, of course, better pay and benefits for police officers?

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#23)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    TL, Troll alert.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    Raise taxes, no. Use the gains of asset forfeiture.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    From Wikipedia: As a pejorative, the term “troll” may also be a slander of opponents in heated debates, a tactic often used by trolls and non-trolls. Many times a person will post a sincere message that they are emotionally sensitive about and trolls know that the easiest way to upset them is to falsely claim that they are a troll. You can find comments on trolls from Talkleft posters here.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    kdog, won’t that just give the government an incentive to do more asset forfeitures, justified or not.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    Good point Soldier, scratch that. Few things are more tyrannical than state seizure of assets from suspects innocent until proven guilty. If the various dept.'s that use tasers cannot keep their officers from tasering unarmed motorists at traffic stops, maybe they shouldn't be used at all.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#28)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    Decriminalize MJ and give that 5 billion a year to police education.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#29)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    Excuse me: Give the 5 billion spent by DEA on interdiction to police education. Also money from saving on incarceration costs of non violent drug offenders. But that is WAY to much for this society to handle.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    Ern....is "being an a**" now punishable by high voltage? Can't we expect more from an officer of the law than responding to a "pain in the ass" with high voltage? No...breaking the law and resisting arrest is punishable by tasering. And yes, we should expect more from an officer than shocking a mere pain in the ass. But this person, once again, if you were to read my entire comment, and watch the video closely, and put down that rubber-banded copy of 1984, was breaking the law and resisting arrest. Unless my hearing is bad, I belive the cop said, "Step out of the vehicle, because you're under arrest", to which she replied, "Oh, no, I don't trust y'all. (Into her phone) They're arresting me." So she knew at that point that she was under arrest, but chose to resist, and got shocked. Simple as simple. I will, however, grant you that the 2nd shocking was, in my opinion, unnecessary. She was on the ground and at that point, easily overpowered, unlike, contrary to popular opinion, when she was still behind the wheel. However, when someone tells you, "Get out of the car, or I'm going to shock you", you should probably get out.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#31)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    Excuse me: Give the 5 billion spent by DEA on interdiction to police education. Also money from saving on incarceration costs of non violent drug offenders.
    Oooohweee, can't wait to get my $1.50 once that's all divided up.
    Pulling your hand away is not resisting arrest unless the policeman said the words "You're under arrest" first, No?
    No! At least not in California. There are many acts which can constitute resitsing arrest. But yours is a common misunderstanding of the law.
    TASERs, like guns, are potentially lethal weapons. The lethality is less with TASERs, but as long as they are marketed as "Non-Lethal" these cowboys will continue to torture and kill people with them. Emphasis added
    No really? Tasers are less lethal hmmm. You really should read what you write. Can you link to one death where the taser was found to be responsible. Not just a factor, but responsible. This was a proper use of the taser. The taser falls below physical, hands-on force in the use of force arena. Don't like it? too bad for now. She was more than a p.i.t.a. She was resisting arrest and was taken into custody with a minimum amount of force. I guess some of you think it would have been better to hit her with a baton, or perhaps punch her with a fist or try some of that cool judo stuff every cop knows... Those have a higher instance of injury imo.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#32)
    by expertlaw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:17 PM EST
    It is difficult for somebody to enter a discussion like this to defend the police conduct depicted in the video, not just because the officer obviously didn't care whether it would look good on tape, but also because the tone of this thread quickly became, "Don't you agree how horrible this was?" Some of the comments above indicate that the commenters didn't actually watch the tape (e.g., suggesting that the driver had a right to refuse to cooperate with the officer because she had not been informed that she was under arrest - even if that were true, the tape makes plain that she had been informed that she was being arrested for driving on a suspended license). Whatever you think of the officer's conduct, do you disagree that the driver's conduct was reprehensible? The options for the officer under the circumstances depicted were (a) ignore the fact that the driver of the car was refusing to obey his lawful orders, and let her sit in her car (and risk her attempting to drive away) until she changed her mind, (b) physically pull her out of the car, (c) obtaining compliance through the use of his baton, or (d) obtaining compliance through the use of pepper spray. Did I miss any? The first option is not realistic, and would almost certainly violate department procedures. It creates a context where there may be a high speed chase, does not resolve the possibility that the driver is armed, and delays the almost-inevitable point in time when coercion will have to be applied to get the driver to comply with the officer's lawful instruction. The second option, brute force, puts both the driver and officer at risk of injury, and the officer must risk that the driver has a concealed weapon (a knife, razor, or even a gun). The third option, clubbing the driver with a baton, reduces risk of injury to the officer but increases risk of injury to the driver. The fourth option, pepper spray, is also very painful, is longer-lasting in effect than a Taser, and puts the other officer at risk of being hit by the spray. In the 1990's, there was a high profile case in Detroit (the "Malice Green" case), in which two officers got into a conflict with a motorist, the motorist resisted arrest and refused to get out of the car, the officers beat the suspect with their flashlights to obtain compliance, and the motorist ended up dead. Had Tasers been available as an option, Green would likely have been Tasered, but also would likely have survived the encounter. It might not have looked pretty on videotape, but he probably would be alive.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:17 PM EST
    No...breaking the law and resisting arrest is punishable by tasering
    I cannot begin to express how sickened I am by this statement. Liberty is dead, welcome to the police state, where traffic cops are judge, jury, and punishers via electric shock. This is not the republic my grandfather fought for.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#34)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:18 PM EST
    Patrick, Here's a quote from a 2004 article about a taser death. Found it in a few seconds. The Monroe County coroner's office concluded Borden died from an irregular heartbeat caused by an enlarged heart, pharmacological intoxication and electric shock. Link

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#35)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:18 PM EST
    Aaron, Personally I don't find her attitude "reprehensible", I find it difficult, troublesome, annoying. After all, that is all she had...an attitude. She posed no physical threat. She was being uppity in the face of authority, which a very free American trait -- whether it's smart or not being a different argument. Reprehensible things are those that HARM other people. The inability of these officers to deal with the personality they were faced with, their lack of even menial psychological insight, and their ridiculous use of electric force, sorry, that was more aptly seems reprehensible.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#36)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:18 PM EST
    Also Aaron, The entire point of my argument is that this case has SPECIFIC circumstances, which needed to be dealt with in their own context. The Malice Green case cannot, in any universe, be compared to this one. No one would argue there are times when police using force would be necessary, or when a taser might be the best way -- when there is a DANGER posed. Not simply because the cops feel themselves above the criticism or attitude of the public whom employs them.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#37)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    Patrick, Another taser death link And another And even a TalkLeft link

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#38)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    Dadler, None of those examples prove the taser was the cause of death. In fact two of your links are duplicates. Either you were mistaken or were hoping that someone wouldn't take the time to read them and it would seem like more. So as I've said, please find something, official preferably, that concludes that a taser, any taser, was responsible for a death. Because so far you are batting zero. As an aside, what would you have done in this same set of circumstances?

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#39)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    No really? Tasers are less lethal hmmm. You really should read what you write.
    You have a problem with the statement that TASERs are less lethal than guns!?That's funny coming from the guy who insists his training stressed TASERs were "less lethal, even tho that contradicts TASER Int'l's statments.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#40)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    Sailor, No problem, just pointing out it's exactly the reason for having them. They are less lethal. Almost anything can be lethal if used incorrectly. A pencil for instance can kill, but when used properly it's not lethal. Perhaps I missed the point of your comment and you were in fact standing in support of their use. If so, I apologize.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#41)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    Patrick, Sorry about the duplicate, but I was aiming to show there are clearly problems with these devices significantly contributing to more than a small number of deaths. You want me to provide you with a link that says a taser alone, aided in no way by any pre-existing (even unknown to the victim) condition, killed a strong, healthy, sober human. When you know that's an impossible order to fill, since Tasers are used on people who are generally anything BUT healthy and sober, definitely not calm and collected, many of whom are mentally ill. And what would I DO? In this lady's situation, I would've been patient, called for more cars, and pretty much gave her the obivous extra measure of emphasis (without the physical/electrical violence) that she had no choice. Okay? This is some uppity lady. Not some 300 pound maniac coming at you with a full tank of crystal meth in his system.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#42)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Sailor, No, I just want a case, any case, where the taser was ruled the proximate cause of death. Was this woman high on crank? I don't know, the case was more than a year ago, I think we'd have that info by now, so I'm assuming she wasn't. Even so, people with additional risk factors are subject to those same factors regardless of what type of force I use. Physical exertion during a fight may enduce heart failure. A baton is certainly more likely to produce a significant injury than a taser. Pepper spray never only effects the suspect, the cop always gets some, and in my experience, pepper spray is the least effective force option with the highest failure rate that I've ever used. Of course that's just my 19+ years of experience. Your way may have worked, but how long would you have been willing to sit there and "discuss" it with her. There's a time to be decisive and when that time comes, you need to be decisive, otherwise you'll be in federal court all day long, or worse, dead. Giving her more time to formulate a plan of resistance is a bad choice in any use of force scenario. Quick and decisive is the way to reduce injuries to both sides and reduce liability. Both good things IMO.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#43)
    by expertlaw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:23 PM EST
    Dadler, I was using the standard English language meaning of reprehensible. You can quibble with me for my use of standard English, sure, but I would rather discuss the issues. As for whether the Malice Green case can be compared to this one? Sure it can. Green was clobbered because he wouldn't get out of his car, and wouldn't open his hand, in disregard of police instructions. This woman was Tasered because she wouldn't get out of her car and pushed away from an officer, in disregard of police instructions. Had the Detroit Police been issued Tasers, and had they used them on Green, he would likely still be alive. Is your distinction that this is a woman, and you instinctively believe that women can't cause injury to police officers?

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    She should have listen to the cop in the first place. He was very, very polite and respectful. She would have gotten a ticket and then she could have when to court to contest it. She was stupid and foolish to not comply with the officer. She just wanted to get easy money by suing the police department. The cop did every thing by the book and should be given a medal.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:42 PM EST
    I say this as an African American Bush Bashing, Amy Goodman, Ted Leo listening Liberal. Miss Goodwin got every thing that was coming to her. Think about it. She was speeding, was not wearing a seat belt, and had a broken tail light. THE FUZZ HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO STOP HER. The officers were polite and tolerated this woman's extremely rude and abusive behavior. When they discovered that her license was suspended, they merely went by the book and arrested her. Could the officiers had cut her break? Well, perhaps. But they did not. This woman went out of her way to give these officers a hard time. In any case she would have never been tased had she simply exited the car. Has anyone here ever watched the Chris Rock Show's how not to get your *ss kicked by the police? Remember that part about being polite? Remember the part that says "EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT IF THE POLICE HAVE TO COME GET YOU THAT THEY ARE BRINGING AN *SS KICKING WITH THEM." I consider myself a pacifist and I hungered to tase Miss Godwin. What this lady received was INSTANT KHARMA.

    Re: Watch a Taser Incident (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:44 PM EST
    I don't want to emulate the Zapruder obsessives with this comment, but did anyone else notice a gap in the video? From 7:58:48, it jumps to 7:58:57 -- almost ten seconds. Given the amount of extraneous (and personal) information throughout the video, why were these seconds missing? Has anybody seen a version without this flaw? Are these kinds of gaps common in police-car videos? Is this just another case of my low-quality video playback?

    Another point......... (none / 0) (#47)
    by FieryJack on Sat Feb 17, 2007 at 05:03:55 PM EST
    I don't mean to single you out, Dadler, - I think the majority here share your views - it's just that you've concisely phrased what it is that I want to respond to.

    ~~~"Personally I don't find her attitude "reprehensible", I find it difficult, troublesome, annoying. After all, that is all she had...an attitude. She posed no physical threat. She was being uppity in the face of authority, which a very free American trait -- whether it's smart or not being a different argument. Reprehensible things are those that HARM other people."~~~

    I've seen this clip a few times now on various Cruiser-Cam "cop vs bad-guy" type shows.. the ones you have to turn off after 15 min's because they're always accompanied by irritating "thrash metal" music....  lol. There's something nobody (that I noticed) has mentioned so far that, IMO, arguably justifies this woman and other petty lawbreakers getting tazed.

    If she/they were compliant or even helpful... not only might they get away with a warning instead of bugging the cops into looking for more things to charge them with..... but the entire incident(s) would be dealt with a great deal quicker.

    This type of behaviour potentially (and no doubt does on occasions) delays cops from attending serious incidents occuring simultaneously on their patch. If dealing with this woman made taser-cop and his buddy late for a domestic beating or child abduction (robbery, rape, carjacking, etc, etc) then she IS - albeit indirectly - responsible for somebody else getting harmed.

    The vast majority of us manage to bite our tongues if pulled over by cops for what seems like a petty reason.... and in return the cops typically don't inflict anything more on us than crappy, sarcastic  humour. Within 10 mins both parties have returned to whatever they were doing. This woman could've done the same but made the choice to get lippy instead.

    If you're going to raise her "right" to behave that way,,,  you have to acknowledge the cop's "right" to taze her for doing so. For sure, most cops would've figured out a gentler way to deal with her....  but then most citizens wouldn't give this taser-happy cop the incentive to use it. A clash was inevitable the moment fate brought these opposing personalities together.

    Watch a Taser Incident | 47 comments (47 topical)