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Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Sat Jun 18, 2005 at 05:13:25 PM EST
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What a political ploy. Newt Gingrich must really think he has a comeback coming. As if we'd ever forget his Contract on America. He is calling on the U.S. Senate to censure Sen. Dick Durbin for his Guantanamo remarks.

In a letter sent to United States Senators on Saturday, June 18, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich called on the Senate to censure Senator Richard Durbin for his speech comparing U.S. servicemen serving in Guantanamo Bay to those of the Nazi Gestapo, Soviet KGB, and Pol Pot's killers in Cambodia.

"Senator Richard Durbin has dishonored the United States and the entire U.S. Senate. Only by a vote to censure Senator Durbin for his conduct can the U.S. Senate restore its dignity and defend American honor," Gingrich wrote.

Durbin never compared U.S. servicemen to nazis. He was talking about interrogation techniques used at Gitmo.
Gingrich writes:

Incredibly, Senator Durbin is sticking to his original assertion that there is indeed, in his own words, an "historic parallel" between U.S. soldiers at Guantanamo Bay and the killers under Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot.

As an aside, why does Gingrich write his letter with the letterhead of "Office of Speaker Newt Gingrich." He hasn't been in Congress, let alone the House Speaker, for years.

Check out conservative blog Balloon Juice's condemnation of Gingrich's call. And Armando at Daily Kos.

And check out this purported news site, the New Voice, which copies the press release verbatim without acknowledging the source is a Gingrich press release.

Update: Crooks and Liars has the video of Wesley Clark on Hannity last night in which Clark refused to condemn Durbin. (link fixed)[see also TV Newsers.]

Update: BOP News:

The larger question is torture and human rights abuses at Gitmo. At this point we know that the US ships people out to be tortured in other countries - called "rendition". We know that techniques used at Gitmo violate standards of common decency, if not the letter of international law.

Now why are we even discussing this? Isn't "torture bad" something that all Americans can agree on? If not, then why not? Because of the bad bad terrorists. Doesn't seem to have helped capture Osama. Didn't stop M11 from following on 911. Doesn't seem to be slowing down the rebellion in Iraq. If this is the war effort that torture gets us, then the case is pretty clear that it isn't good for the war effort.

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    Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin | 50 comments (50 topical)
    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#1)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    TL - Please. It was a direct comparsion.
    If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.
    As for why politicans and military try and keep their titles, my guess is because they miss people kissing their feet...and other places.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    No, it was not direct, and you know it, Jim. It was rhetorical, as is obvious to anyone who understands the form "you would most certainly believe..." I guess it's easier to propagandize this thing if you didn't have a college education. As for 'Speaker Gingrich,' that is just a normal reference to past honors, just as Conyers is referred to as "Mr. Chairman" correctly, or Dean as "Mr. Governor."

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    Do you think Dean uses stationary that says "The Office of the Governor"? A former judge is still addressed as Judge but I doubt they send out letters "from the chambers of" after they are no longer a judge. It was the stationary I was complaining about.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#4)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    TL - I think it is pure ego. But then again, few things are pure. ;-) PIL - No. Read the statement. He may have made the statement not expecting an answer, but it is a direct comparsion. Also read his non-apology:
    "My statement in the Senate was critical of the policies of this Administration, which add to the risk our soldiers face," he said in a statement released Friday afternoon. "I have learned from my statement that historical parallels can be misused and misunderstood. I sincerely regret if what I said caused anyone to misunderstand my true feelings: Our soldiers around the world and their families at home deserve our respect, admiration and total support."
    Note he again uses a word that compares: "parallels," proving that his intent was to compare.
    " : to indicate analogy of : COMPARE 2 a : to show something equal to : MATCH b : to correspond to 3 : to place so as to be parallel in direction with something 4 : to extend, run, or move in a direction parallel to


    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#5)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    Sotek's comments on this discussion at Orcinus has this pearl of wisdom:
    ...the people making the initial accusations were people released from Gitmo. That is, people we deemed to NOT NEED TO BE KEPT IN PRISON. If torturing them was justified, why the hell did we release them? If torture is justified, keeping them in prison CERTAINLY is. And if keeping them in prison isn't justified, how can torture be justified?
    Reminds me of that stupid joke where the punchline is: "In theory we're millionaires. in practice we're living with a couple of tramps."

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    It was not a direct comparison, you liar. He said, 'If I said X, you would probably think Y.' That is not a direct comparison because he is pointing out a similarity, not in total output of tyranny, as you wingers have been claiming, but in the techniques themselves. A similarity of techniques with tyrants is disgusting in anything associated with America. That was his point. He made that point by using a rhetorical device, the leading question. If you have never head a leading question in Congress or politics, then you must be deaf as well as dishonest.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    head=heard

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    Posted by Jim: "TL - I think it is pure ego." No, TL is right, it's intentionally misleading. The reference, 'Speaker Gingrich' is what I was talking about...I missed the 'Office of' which suggests that he is still the Speaker. It's another petty piece of your party's thoroughgoing dishonesty.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    PPJ-Durbin was not apologizing for what he said. He used the words "misused" and "misunderstood". That implies that the complainers are the ones who didn't have their heads on straight! You, and others like you, are just wrong on this point, as well as the broader point of this whole story: TORTURE IS NEVER JUSTIFIABLE, not for any reason. Unless, of course, you left your humanity outside when you entered the door to the right-wing!

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#10)
    by DonS on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    Direct comparisons, parallels, whatever,are all all sematic wrangling. What seems to be the underlying grain of contention is that Durbin's comments were over the top because disproportionate. However, if we look at the pretensions of the various regimes in question, including the Bush regime, which claims to be democractic, it should be worlds,if not universes different from the Nazis, Pol Pot and the like. But there is a proprortionate comparison to be made,sad to say, and Durbin made it. That even a argument based on proportinate evil can be made is a disgrace to our democracy. That is the point. Those who defend Bush miss are on the wrong side of the argument. No one defends Hitler or Pol Pot. No one should defend he excesses of the Bush regime.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#11)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    PPJ et al. -- you all ought to drop your tone of righteous indignation and take a second to watch the clip of Wesley Clark responding to Hannity & Colmes. (Note-- TL's link doesn't work, so you'll have to go to Crooks & Liars to get the link). First, because Wes Clark has a very reasonable response to the total non-issue of Senator Durbin's use of the "n" word while trying to raise his colleagues' interest in what's going on at Guantanamo, and second because it'll give you an opportunity to watch Senator Santorum make a much wackier (and more egregious) comparison between Senate Democrats and Adolf Hitler. Go watch the clip. There will be a quiz.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#12)
    by DonS on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    Looked at the clip. Ummm, ahhhh,hmmmm. Yeah, wassup with that, PPJ et el.. Where were the condemnations from the Republicans and the right of Santorum comparing democrats to Nazis? Oh, I forgot, you're a democract PPJ, right, so we couldn't expect you to do any condeming of that Nazi comparison. But maybe someone else could explain the deafening silence. So what's the difference? A real head scratcher.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#13)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    PIL - Congratulations. You actully made a rational comment without attacking, but you couldn't hold it, eh? He himself admitted what he had done when he used "historical parrallels" in his non-apology. I even gave you the dictionary definition, but you, in your vile and laughable rant, decide that I, and the dictionary, are liars. You then say:
    That is not a direct comparison because he is pointing out a similarity,
    "similar": <
    1: having characteristics in common : strictly comparable 2 : alike in substance or essentials : CORRESPONDING 3 : not differing in shape but only in size or position
    Thanks for making my point. BTW - The fact a question is rhetorical has nothing to do with the content or the facts. PIL, I gotta love ya. Your vulgar inane comments, calling people liars, racists, nazis, fascits, etc., so perfectly fits the profile of a little young rich radical that it makes me laugh. If you didn't exist, the Right would have to invent you. cheetah - I agree he didn't apologize. That's what he should continue to be criticized for his most outrageous comments. Now, since he was talking about GITMO, please tell me about the torture that you think is taking place. And remember, having only two entrees for dinner is not torture. Perhaps this link will help you. DonS - No, they are not factual. Durbin calls things torture that are not. et al - And that is the basic difference. Those on the Left who are sincere, and I grant you there may be a few, believe that these unlawful combatants/terrorists/guerillas/detainees should be brought to the US and given a trial in our criminal justice system with all the due process, chain of evidence, etc., protections that we call for US citizens, and people committing crimes within the US or its terrorities. That is nonsense, but nonsense is adapted many times by people. However, many on the Left, make these attacks for purely political reasons. In doing so they aid the enemy for base reasons. They want to win elections and have power.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    PPJ- I did misread your lead-in of Durbin's statements. I've read so many "aha" posts on this, I am weary of it. I do not apologize for the rest of what I said. When we finish with the wrangeling of the term "comparison", could we remember that Durbin was reading from a report written by our F.B.I., and that they appear to have questions about whether or not things had gotten out of hand there? This discussion is a smoke-screen. The bigger picture of what we may be engaged in, as far as human rights are concerned, is the only part of this issue we should be discussing. Not the political one-upping. We don't even know if these people have done anything wrong!

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    Oh, and why is anyone listening to that fool, Gingrich? Hasn't he been discredited to the degree that we shouldn't have to hear a word that comes out of his mouth? The media should be ashamed.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    The link to the C&L video in the post is accidentally tagged as mailto: [Thanks, I fixed it.]

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#17)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    cheetah - The basic disagreement is on what rights these people have. I say they are terrorists/guerillas/unlawful combatants, and as such they have no GC rights. They have only what we give them. Historically such people have been executed. Since their may be people who have been picked up based on false information we should give people who there is any doubt about, a tribunal. If found innocent they should be compensated and released. (I would guess that we have greatly refined our rules on such pickups.) You wrote:
    We don't even know if these people have done anything wrong!
    That is obviously incorrect. Many were captured in battle, etc. If there is no doubt they are guilty e.g., captured during battle, or if found to be guilty, they should be retained in prison, as if they were POW's, but (again) with no GC rights. Their interrogation should not include torture, but it should be aggressive. Here again we have a difference. You undoubtedly see anything that disturbs the prisoner as "abuse" and/or "torture." I don't. He is there because of what he did, and what he will do if released. I have no sympathy for him. Did you read the link? That describes torture. No matter what he was reading, Durbin was posturing for political purposes. He could have referenced the report, he could have condemned the actions without using the comparsions he used. I think his actions were, and are, despicable. I hope the citizens of IL do not re-elect him.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#18)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    cheetah - I haven't commented on Gringrich except to throw him in the politican pot re use of ex-titles. But, no matter what his current status, his tenure as House Majority Leader changed the world. Fool? You should wish for his intellect.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#19)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    Jim, You claim you are not a republican, then you defend them on a progressive web site. That's not grounds for a valid debate.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#20)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    However, many on the Left, make these attacks for purely political reasons. In doing so they aid the enemy for base reasons. They want to win elections and have power.
    Yeah. And how many communists are there in the State Department, ppj? I want to see names and examples, not categorical smear jobs. And no, Senator Durbin doesn't count.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#21)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    Che - As you very well know, I am a social liberal and have made numerous supportive comments re liberal goals/ideals. The fact that I disagree with the anti-war wing of the Demo party, as well the anti-war Radical Left has nothing to with "parties." Che, it is possible to support the defense of the country and not be a Repub. nolo - Nice smear job attempt, yourself. You need look no further than Pelosi, Kennedy, Durbin, etc., to see those who are using the war as a political tool to attack the administration. Problem is, the terrorist leaders have this vision in their mind of our leaving Vietnam because of this. I am sorry you can't fathom this most obviuous of facts.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#22)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    cheetah - Now here is a real torture situation. I'm sure Durbin will read this on the Senate floor.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimcee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    Nolo: How many Communists are in the State Department? I don't know but there have been some in the past and one of thier names was Alger Hiss who was a CPUSA operative. Who knows there may be some today. One thing I do know is that the way the Left has bandied about the word Nazi to descibe anyone who disagrees with them has cheapened the meaning of the word in general and insults the victims of the real Nazis. Ah the Orwellian world of the Left.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#24)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    ppj, Pelosi, Kennedy and Durbin are all giving voice to the very same concerns I have about the conduct of this administration. Moreover, you haven't demonstrated that anything they've said is untrue. You've just claimed that Democrats are raising the issues because they want power. Well, that just gets me back to a question I asked once before: If an informant turns in a criminal just to get the reward, does it make the criminal any less culpable? Prove to me they're lying, and maybe I'll get mad at them. But they're already proving to me that President Bush and his administration have lied to me, and the American people, over and over and over, about stuff that matters one whole hell of a lot more than a blowjob (hat tip to Atrios). Oh, and speaking of Atrios, you should check out his post where he asks if President Bush wasn't maybe endangering our troops when he publicly embraced the "flypaper" justification for invading Iraq. Just maybe?

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    PPJ, In a single post you say there "may be people who have been picked up based on false information", then, later, in the same post, you state "He is there because of what he did, and what he will do if released." The first statement makes the next look ridiculous. You have cancelled yourself out. Also, my intellect needs no help from the likes of Gingrich and, apparently, not from you, either. Unless you were a witness to the capture of all of these people, you have no idea who they are, what they were doing, or what they are capable of doing in the future.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#26)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    jimcee, obviously you didn't get today's assignment. There's been some pretty free use of analogies to Nazis on both sides of the aisle.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#27)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    nolo writes:
    Moreover, you haven't demonstrated that anything they've said is untrue.
    If you believe Durbin, what can possibly be said? Look, nolo. You are a true believer. Cannon fodder. You are the only person who can rescue you. cheetah - Evidently you can't read. In par 3 I note that some may have been picked up that we are uncertain about. In par 5 I write:
    If there is no doubt they are guilty e.g., captured during battle,
    This clearly notes two classess. One we need to look at, one we do not. You demonstrate that you are unwilling to believe our military when you start talking about:
    you have no idea who they are, what they were doing
    Such paranoia is astounding. Everyone is telling lies except you and those on the Left. Enjoy life. And yes, your intellect does need help.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#28)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    ppj, Senator Durbin read from an FBI agent's statement. Are you calling the FBI guy a liar? Nothing Senator Durbin said was a lie. Moreover, nothing he disclosed was classified. So let's be clear about this: You are saying that a sitting Senator should not disclose non-confidential facts about the conduct of U.S. agents because why? Because they're not very flattering facts? Well jeez freaking louise. If the administration's prosecution of this "WOT" is going to go to hell in a handbasket over the disclosure of unflattering unclassified facts about its operations, the administration oughta fold up its tent right now.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#29)
    by DonS on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Hey Jimcee, I do not feel cheapened by the alusions to Nazis. I find the right to be Orwellian, and far better at hurling invective. Just my opinion. Of course, if I had their record to defend I might find that invective, slander, and lies were the best I could do. Most of my family was killed by the Nazis. I do wish all you oh so concerned defenders of "Nazi victims" would look to cleaning up your own backyards before having the gaul to use my history, and my family's tragic history to score points. Put bluntly, you words are hypocritical; you have no right. Convince me otherwise.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#30)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    nolo - Don't be obtuse for heaven's sake. The issues are: 1. Many of us do not consider what the FBI referred to as torture. 2. I haven't condemned Durbin's reading the report, but rather his comparsion of Americans to Nazis, Soviets, Pol Pot, and others.. From my earlier comment to cheetah:
    No matter what he was reading, Durbin was posturing for political purposes. He could have referenced the report, he could have condemned the actions without using the comparsions he used.
    You write:
    and my family's tragic history to score points. Put bluntly, you words are hypocritical; you have no right. Convince me otherwise.
    First, I don't have to do anything, much less convince someone who may be Jewish, yet can't see how deadly this latest attack by terrorist can be. Frankly, I find it astounding when a Jew attacks our attempts to make the ME a safe place for everyone. And the fact that your family suffered is sad, but gives you no special rights. Millions suffered who were not Jews. So turn your straw horse out to pasture where it can graze along the one I could put there due to my family's extensive military service in WWII.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#31)
    by nolo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Wow, ppj. Just, wow. If a direct descendant of victims of Nazi atrocities tells you he or she is not offended by Senator Durbin's rhetorical flourishes, and goes after you for having the gall to be offended in his or her stead, I have to tell you: The proper response is not to say that a jewish person (a) has no special right to be offended about Nazi atrocities but, at the same time, (b) somehow has a special obligation to love and appreciate what our government's doing in the Middle East. If there were an Olympics for offensiveness, I'd have to give you a 10 on that one.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#32)
    by DonS on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    As long as this is a free-for-all: "Frankly, I find it astounding when a Jew attacks our attempts to make the ME a safe place for everyone." Frankly I find it astounding that you seek to extrapolate your acceptance of the RW policy line on the Iraq war to the rest of us. Frankly I find it insulting that you don't know enough about the "Jewish" point of view on the ME to recognize diversity of opinion; that's called stereotyping. "And the fact that your family suffered is sad, but gives you no special rights. Millions suffered who were not Jews." I am not claiming any special rights.I recognize the suffering of countless others; Poles, gypsies, communists, and more. It seems like you (on Jimcee's behalf?) are the one claiming special rights -- to tell us how we should feel.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    It's really sad, PPJ, that you feel you must twist your own words in order to wriggle out from under, again, your own words. Also, don't put words in my mouth. I never mentioned our military. I said "you", PPJ, "you". In other words, were "you" there as a witness? I don't put down the troops, never have, and never would. I come from a military family, and have enormous respect for them. Again, don't put words in my mouth. You are the one who, apparently, cannot read.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#34)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    hmmm. So much BS, so little time. Cheetah - Well, I did 10 years in Naval Aviation. Got anymore "one up" comments? And if you truly have respect for the troops, you can't be defending Durbin. Ergo. You don't have respect. Sorry, but that's how it works. Can't have it both ways. DonS - Heavens forbid that someone should give you some sound advice. Go on thinking you can cut a deal with the terrorists. nolo - If a Jewish person claims that they are the only one who can comment about Nazis that's fine with me. But somehow I think the rest of will just ignore it. And you make the point only because cheetah is suppoprting Durbin.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    When Sen. Trent Lott said something offensive and wrong, Dems were merciless no matter how many times he apologized. Lott finally did the right thing and resigned as majority leader. Is there any chance that the same standard will be applied to Sen. Durbin to demand he surrender his minority whip position? I won't hold my breath either for a single standard or for Durbin to do the right thing for his party the way Lott did for his.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#36)
    by DonS on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Jim, you are inapposite at best,and more likely delusional. Your responses bear no relationship to previous comments. Get some rest if you can't afford the lobotomy. I'd like to think you are harmless but your obsessions seem fixed.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Jim, working hard on taking things out of context: "He himself admitted what he had done when he used "historical parallels" Admitted? His rhetorical question was simple enough. He 'admitted' that people misunderstand rhetorical devices which suggest 'historical parallels.' And other people intentionally construe rhetorical questions to be slurs. THE ACTS ARE SLURS on our innate freedoms. As I said: "That is not a direct comparison because he is pointing out a similarity," The similarity, in your misconstruction, is not the ACTION. That's why you are confused. Besides the fact that you are a partisan liar aping a lying talking point.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Posted by Fight for Justice: "When Sen. Trent Lott said something offensive and wrong," More than saying something offensive, Lott clearly supported racism in his comment. Sen. Durbin has done nothing wrong. But you lot want to propagandize to cover up your obvious malfeasance in every aspect of our government. Laws have been broken, and some of the breakers will be broken as well, when this is all done. Durbin is doing his job. Which is not something you can say about ANYONE on your side of the aisle, who are abrogating their Constitutional duties at every turn.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    ppj, So you were in the military. So, what's your point? Is that your lame answer to my question of whether or not "you" were a witness to the prisoners being taken into custody? If that's all you've got, NOT GOOD ENOUGH! As for the "one-up", that's your little dance, and , by the way, your rhythm is off.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
    Oh, and yes, I can have it "both ways". The only thing that would disallow that? A gaping hole in the intellect department. By the way, YOU ARE SO CUTE WHEN YOU'RE ANGRY!

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#42)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    cheetah - The Naval Aviation comment was to point out why I believe the military before others. i.e. Sen Kennedy, Durbin, AIM. Sorry if I confused you. It is, you know, so difficult not to. DA - Still angry because I chose not to comment, eh? Well, life does have its disappointments. cheetah - The both ways comment was rhetorical. Based on the Left's reaction to Durbin's attack comments, that means I can have it mean whatever I want. PIL - Who ya gonna believe? The talking points being passed out, or the dictionary? That's rhetorical, PIL.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    I say again, YOU ARE SO CUTE WHEN YOU'RE ANGRY!

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#44)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    If a Jewish person claims that they are the only one who can comment about Nazis that's fine with me. That's not what Don S said.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    DA, Oh, am I sorry I missed that link earlier! I am laughing my ass off right now! Very nice work, and so apropos.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#47)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:15 PM EST
    As you should be able to tell by now, Turban Durbin's mouth has accelerated the decline of the Gitmo-horror story toward its natural death. Americans--normal ones--know that torture isn't happening there. However, one commentator observed that Turban Durbin might be right. A lot of Americans may well think this is a Nazi-like situtation. Because, due to their exposure to public education, they don't know jack about such things. Pol Pot? Never heard of him. Durbin, in order to make the US look bad, has to imply that Pol Pot was bad. That's a tactical decision which relies on the ill-educated to not know the dems and lefties kissed Pol Pot's butt. Maybe that will fly. Probably not.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#48)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    cheetah writes:
    I say again, YOU ARE SO CUTE WHEN YOU'RE ANGRY!
    Sorry I missed your insult attempt. Look sweetie, inane sexual hints don't get me excited. If you want to play drop the soap in the shower you'll have to find someone else to do it with. DA writes:
    YOU should be angry at me,
    Maybe you and cheetah can get together because I'm not angry, and you are. Both of you: Fact is Durbin insulted just about everyone, and no amount of distractions and parsing can conceal it. The only real questions are why did he do it, and why do you defend it. I think we know the answer to both questions. TA TA!

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    PPJ, "sexual hints"? Where is your mind? There is nothing sexual intended. Drop the soap? That may be your hobby, but my husband doesn't like that game.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:16 PM EST
    "Posted by Richard Aubrey: "Americans--normal ones--know that torture isn't happening there." Which knowledge arrives in the form of a fat little imp that sits on their shoulder and whispers into their ear. If I were to tell you that PPJ and Richard A are shills for the rightwing talking points, you would probably think that they support torture, racism, illegal invasions, massive warcrimes, political assassination, pogroms (Fallujah), graft and runaway corruption, and other crimes and malfeasance. And have no qualms about 1,725 dead soldiers, without a single WMD being found, and absolutely no evidence of a nuclear program that they endeavored to scare our children over. But they get REAL INDIGNANT if one of their political enemies uses a rhetorical device to point out the sinister hypocrisy of the Fascist Elites.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:17 PM EST
    Dark Avenger, I can't wait to check the spinmeister at work on the DSM topic. I think I may have missed that. Yes, you're right, he didn't check that link, but I sure did, and probably others as well. I'll check back with you on this posting later.

    Re: Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:17 PM EST
    Dark Avenger, He's busted on something else, and he'll lie like a dog on this. Check out his last comment to me very carefully, then mine to him. You may have already noticed, but if not, here's a heads up.

    Newt Gingrich Jumps on Sen. Dick Durbin | 50 comments (50 topical)