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Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Thu Jun 16, 2005 at 05:12:50 PM EST
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Pretty soon he'll be in the tank....Crooks and Liars has the latest Bush poll numbers from the CBS - New York Times Poll released today:

President George W. Bush's job approval rating is now just 42 percent, and most Americans think he does not share their priorities. Iraq and the economy -- not the President's signature issue of Social Security -- are most important to Americans, and Americans' assessments of both remain mixed, with support for the decision to send troops to Iraq matching its lowest percent ever.

51% of those polled disapprove of the job he is doing. Analysis: Bush has problems. More here

Update: Cheney and cabinet members' approval ratings dropped as well (WSJ - free link)

larger version

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    Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove | 28 comments (28 topical)
    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    Sadly, TL, we are in the tank with him. I hate it. I don't like being the bad guy... I didn't grow up feeling that way about America. I thought we were something special.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#2)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    This certainly took long enough. Nothing to be proud of. Over 40% still goosestep.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#3)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    Mfox, Chin up girl. Watch CSPAN 2. Democracy in action.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#4)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    Bush could probably win reelection right now if a vote were held. His poll numbers only go down between elections when the voters aren't really paying attention to politics, but the MSM is pounding away. People "heard something" and since there are no consequences from going w/the flow, will say so to a pollster. But then, when the elections roll around, things change,the voters look a little more closely, and they end up picking the guy. This same pattern gets repeated with a lot of regularity for many conservative pols simply because: a) the US is mostly small-c conservative b) the MSM is mostly large-L Liberal leaving the libs frustrated from peaking in the press precisely between elections, when it matters not. If libs wanna win the only poll that counts, they will need to make some fundamental changes. Till then, I think both sides can count on the above pattern to repeat.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#5)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    I think both sides can count on the above pattern to repeat.
    Angry (Bush) and scary (Cheney)
    or
    Goofus (Dean) and gallant (Edwards) . . ...sadly, ras, I agree with you. Vigilantes, when they're drunk on power, have to be taken down by their own.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    but the MSM is pounding away.
    and
    b) the MSM is mostly large-L Liberal
    Ras lies and lies. Believe it.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#7)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    Ras, I'm a liberal and I cannot stand our useless conservative media. Discuss.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    If libs wanna win the only poll that counts, they will need to make some fundamental changes . . . like having elections we can trust. As long as the GOP is jimmying "the only poll that counts," it doesn't matter what else we do.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#9)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    If they can fix intel, they can fix elections.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#10)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    Tampa/Scar, It matters not whether you agree with me. If you don't, and if enough Dems feel the same as you, then we'll all see over the next couple of elections whether it's true that the between-election polls merely reflect MSM bias. Empirical evidence trumps theory every time. Personally, I think these polls merely give Dems false feedback on which strategies to campaign with, such as right now, for example, pushing the Dems to do the Howard Dean all-angry, all-attack, all-the-time approach. See, it works! The polls say so. Let's use it in our next campaign! When Dean tried it himself in a real election, it worked great - but only until it was time to vote, and at that pt, suddenly he couldn't even get nominated, much less win the general election. So go ahead and use the approach; won't bother me a bit. p.s. Scar, were you being facetious with your "discuss" comment? I'm on the "save the cocoon" quota, remember? Otherwise, I'd be happy to oblige.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    ras, I call BS; please provide factual links. The MSM published story after story of bogus Clinton stories, but very few of factual bush atrocities. laura killed a person while driving drunk. bush deserted the nat'l guard. bush decided on war years before he told the nation. bush said he barely knew "Kenny Boy" lay. bush said he would get OBL, (you remember the man who planned 9/11), "dead or alive" but hasn't even tried to do it. (In his own words "Osama doesn't matter to me") So please, please provide links to your allegations.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#12)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    Sailor, So please, please provide links to your allegations. Are you serious? Howard Dean lost the Dem nomination (it went to a fellow named John Kerry, instead). You need links to that?

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#13)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    To get back on topic. What has Bush accomplished in his second term? After all, his party does control Congress. Social security and the war in Iraq are a bust. I think his drop in approval is an accurate reflection of the way that people feel about Bush.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#14)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    Is it time for the "Don't blame me. I didn't vote for Bush" bumper stickers to be produced?

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    ras, I do believe Sailor was talking about providing links to back up your Liberal media comment. I thought he was clear on that. The MSM isn't only conservative (at least much of the time), but something even worse. They are weak. Limp as a wet noodle. Pee in your pants scaredy-cats. That's what I hate about them most of all.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#16)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    Glad to see so many share my opinion of the twin-a$$ed beast that is the republicrat quagmire. Perhaps the public finally caught notice of a half trillion deficit from the party of fiscal conservatism; or maybe that the ‘opposition’ party ran a man for the top job that willingly relinquish the single check on war, only to indulge in the absurd rhetoric of a hypocrite. “ras, I do believe Sailor was talking about providing links to back up your Liberal media comment.” Time warp. We have done this before here. There are a handful of studies that show the media (newspapers, radio, network, etc.) are, or were, marginally more liberal than the average voter in the market they serve. They’ve been linked, the methods debated, the sample size criticized, the result ignored. Anyway, why do you care? If you are staunchly conservative a representative media will look liberal, and likewise if you are staunchly liberal (and most here, in my estimation, are far more liberal than the core of the democratic party) the media will look conservative. The stories are there for the taking; the internet, CSPAN 1,2,3, PBS, BBC, and so forth. Wake up; the media isn’t controlling national opinion. The arrogance; the media controls the thoughts and opinions of everyone save you and your enlightened cohorts? A more simple explanation, and the most probable, is that your opinion of marketable news is a minority opinion.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    It keeps coming back to open fair elections, with a papertrail that a voter can see immediately after casting the ballot, and that can be counted by hand if necessary when questions arise about the programming integrity of the voting machines. Jerrymandering is another issue, but at some point, the neocons will have over-reached so far that even conservatives won't vote their way. I think we may be near that point. The neocons will move back toward the mainstream with compassionate and reasonable comments and positions as the mid term elections near. The problem is that these compassionate and reasonable comments and positions represent political maneuvering, not values. "I detest that man, who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks forth another." -- Homer I think that's from the ancient Homer, not Homer Simpson, though maybe Home Simpson types will start to see through the neocons. As Dubya said, fool me once, shame on you or me, fool me twice, uhhh... fool me twice... uhhhh.... I won't get fooled again.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    and it begs the question: what do the 40 percenters see that they like?

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    I cannot imagine a more meaningless poll than an approval rating for a second term president. Every senator is protecting their arse and will fight a second termer so it really takes the steam out of the engine. What are the approval ratings for democratic senators and leadership? That to me is a more telling and meaningful poll. As we saw the last election, people may not like Bush, but they found Kerry far less endearing and capable.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    This poll, combined with the polls that showed Clinton with > 60% approval at the very moment the Republicans were trying to drive him from office, basically proves that non-voting Americans overwhelmingly lean Democrat, or at least away from the radicals of the GOP. But the conservatives are right when they say that the only poll that counts is the one they have every other November. Anybody who doesn't like the way this country is going, but didn't vote last year, failed his country much worse than someone misguided enough to vote for Bush.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:09 PM EST
    and it begs the question: what do the 40 percenters see that they like? Try asking them in person, Conscious A. But don't expect much--I've never got a straight answer to that one. Slogans a-plenty, but not much else.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#22)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    Unfortunately, with a margin of error, that STILL means we're a precisely divided nation. The only silver lining is Bush can't run again. Or at least THIS Bush. His dad coule run again, remember. Kidding. I think. Seriously, we've as divided as ever, that's all a 51% poll number means, no matter how it's fallen, risen, whatever. It's stlill half on one side, half on the other. We have no galvanizing personality on the left in the country, haven't since Clinton said farewell. Better find one and fast. And I WISH Dean were the man, but he already blew his shot with his undisciplined and counterproductive rhetoric.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#23)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    Under Bush we have had neither peace nor prosperity. Bush may end up as one of the worse Presidents ever. Lets begin with an unnecessary war. When he began his Presidency he had more than a balanced budget, but an actual surplus. Within 4 years he turned that into record budget deficits. He has eroded many of our liberties and freedoms. And as far as getting Osama Bin Laden "dead or alive", the last time I noticed Osama was still alive and well. However, to be fair he has made life easier for our wealthy lucky duckies.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:11 PM EST
    Public opinion surveys do not gauge quantity of media with inherent bias. They gauge opinion. Big difference. The media may not shape everyone's opinion, but it does shape some percentage of it. I believe that percentage is quite large. Since 60% of 60% of United States Citizenry participate in our elections, and given that this percentage is divided, none of you have demonstrated any ability to accurately gauge majority opinions through the citation of election data. You may call it sampling, but it is an invalid sample, given the economic and racial disparity between active, registered voters and non-voters. I said the same thing when Kerry was ahead in the polls last election. PW is making assumptions of America's "mainstream values". Ras is antagonizing and disrupting as usual. PW may believe through his/her life experiences that what he says is true, but then, it's those faith based Conservatives that always demand quantitative support whenever faced with any point they disagree with - truth is, they would/do deny it whenever it presents itself.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#25)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:11 PM EST
    I can understand my friends on the right minimizing this latest poll. What I can't understand is all this handwringing from my brothers and sisters on the left. Its like you don't know how to handle good news if it was staring you in the face. While it is true that a poll is like a still picture, when you put all the pictures together you start seeing a trend and that trend is moving slowly in the right direction. Bush is running out of excuses for why things aren't going right in this country. So lets celebrate this drop in Bush's popularity. There is hope for the country yet.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:11 PM EST
    John, there is more wrong with our country than George W. Bush. The fact that Neocon/Right-Wing policies could resonate with so many indicates several fundamental deficiencies within our culture. We need to address root causes in addition to symptoms. Because some poll swings my way doesn't mean that I suddenly forget my distrust of pollster's methods/bias (or even the need for having a poll in the first place).

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#27)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:11 PM EST
    TS- “I said the same thing when Kerry was ahead in the polls last election.” Exactly what polls are you referring to, Zogby? My left leaning friends were dumbstruck on Nov3, forced to remove their Solon/Zogby blinders. I followed the compilation realclearpolitics was running. It’s a brilliant idea; average as many available polls as possible, effectively translating bias into noise. My friends and I ran a collection Nov2, and using realclearpolitics’ projections I was able to call it to the state. They had GW leading the entire time. “PW may believe through his/her life experiences that what he says is true, but then, it's those faith based Conservatives that always demand quantitative support …” I don’t quite know what you’re saying. You see me as a faith based conservative? My body of comments here certainly shows otherwise. I firmly believe that the only way we can know anything is through observation; I have to say I’m a bit offended at being accused of faith, if that was your intent. Anyway, as to what elections say about public opinion; in my estimation folks don’t vote simply because the current state of affairs is tolerable. The Killen trial should remind us the obstacles folks intent on democratic change will face. In comparison the complaints of today’s complacent would be voters are trivial. Not to dismiss some very real problems, but next to murder and assault, problems of gerrymandering, long lines, etc., seem trifling reasons for discarding the franchise.

    Re: Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:11 PM EST
    I have to say I’m a bit offended at being accused of faith, if that was your intent. It wasn't my intent to lump you together with faith based Conservatives...I errantly changed voice in mid-sentence. The point was that the sum of your life experiences may have led you (PW) to believe differently than what I'd written, but Conservatives (meaning others here) discount personal experiences (aka anecdotes) in favor of reliably referenced data (i.e. anything collected by the Heritage Foundation). They especially like to use this excuse in cases where no quantitative data is (or could be) recorded (i.e. gauging media bias). Even when that data presents itself (pollution statistics/air quality) they always willfully ignore it if it doesn't fit their world view. FAIR (linked to above) collects (on a weekly basis) examples of bias in the media. These aren't statistics, they are a 5-6 year string of instances where Conservative journalists have spewed garbage. The faith based was thrown in for ironic effect (to illustrate hypocrisy).

    Poll: Bush Approval Drops: 51% Disapprove | 28 comments (28 topical)