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Who to Believe About Guantanamo?

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 08:58:14 AM EST
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Kevin Zeese at Democracy Rising asks, Who to Believe? when it comes to the Iraq War and treatment of Guantanamo prisoners? His conclusion is one that most human rights groups and members of Congress have been advocating for some time. We need more people to listen.

The truth in this matter could be resolved merely by having a truly independent commission investigate the allegations. Or, even more appropriately having a special prosecutor investigate abuses as senior Republicans in the Senate promised -- John Warner, Lindsay Graham and John McCain stated that everyone culpable would be held accountable, no matter how senior when the torture photos were released but have taken no action to live up to their promise.

Kevin also writes of the increasing disconnect:

Throughout history 'truth has been the first casualty of war' and this continues to be the case in Iraq. The disconnect between realty and the statements of the administration so far seems to be failing to convince the U.S. public as support for getting out of Iraq is increasing and the popularity of President Bush's handling of the war is decreasing. Indeed, as the credibility of the Administration fades their disconnect from reality will undercut them further.

Update: The Contra Costa Times has this editorial on the Unamerican Treatment of Detainees. Also see, Derrick Z. Jackson in the Boston Globe on The Last Throes of Truth in Iraq.

Update: Drafting the Dead, Seattle Post Intelligencer Editorial (link via Cursor.Org.)

< The Next Assault on the Attorney Client Relationship | Saddam Trial Moved Up, Iraq Resumes Use of Death Penalty >

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    • Who to Believe About Guantanamo? | 14 comments (14 topical)
    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#1)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:32 PM EST
    I'll tell you I believe, I believe the soldiers who are working there. And I've heard a number of them, in the media as well as first-hand talking about American intelligence personnel (often the agency they are affiliated with is never identified) using un-American tactics to interrogate these political prisoners. But the tactics that they've used seem so pitiful that they're really doing nothing more than embarrassing themselves by engaging in them. One of the problems is that no one's really clear who has jurisdiction over the interrogations of these prisoners in Guantánamo. It really sounds like they're playing games of their, because they don't have any proper guidelines to follow.

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:32 PM EST
    Well, they are all bad. ...r-r-i-g-h-t. Get ready for the passively-voiced "mistakes were made" speeches.

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:33 PM EST
    Cheney's mind-boggling denial Larry King used a familiar tactic: to assert without evidence that all the detainees are "terrorists" (actually, I think he just said "the enemy"). How convenient for them to make that assumption, but the fact remains that habeus corpus is not in abeyance. The right-wing is showing its true colors on this one.

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#4)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:34 PM EST
    I would love to go to Guantanamo and get the full Treatment maybe bush can sell the camps as a vacation place? and have Religious festival, thing? and cut some head off, and just be good and say no! help!

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:34 PM EST
    Who to believe? Well, based on past performance I sure as hell know who not to believe.

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#6)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:34 PM EST
    There should be a bipartisan call for investigations, but there won't be. If the Amnesty International charges are "absurd" then what do Republicans have to fear from an independent investigation? I suspect that the reason for this is that my friends on the right don't believe Bush either, in other words, they believe that the charges are all true.

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:35 PM EST
    Et al... Hell... this one is easy. I think we should believe people captured in combat. You know, sworn enemies of the US... the people that hate us and want us all to die. Yeah, let's believe them! LOL!!!!!

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    I think all these questions can be answered by the Medium Lobster from Fafblog: So You're Being Tortured To Death In An American Military Prison! Q: Help! I'm being tortured to death in an American military prison! What should I do? A: First of all, you should get your facts straight. You're not being tortured to death in an American military prison; you're being interrogated to death in an American detainment facility. America does not tolerate torture. Q: Is there any sort of legal representative or due process I could get before being beaten to death? A: No. Lawyers, open legal procedures, and basic civil liberties are all tools the enemy can use to escape justice - the justice of being beaten to death in a prison camp. Q: It's just that my name is Musab Mohammed Khan, the pastry chef, and I believe you have me confused with Musab Muhammed Khan, the al Qaeda associate also known as "The Fist of Jihad." A: First, there are many terrorist pastry chefs, just as there are many terrorist pastries. Second, competent intelligence and accurate prison records are both tools the enemy can use to escape justice. Q: I seem to be losing all feeling in my lower body. Is there a doctor in the gulag? A: Please: we find the term "gulag" absurd and offensive. A "gulag" is Russian. You are not being interrogated to death by Russians. You are being interrogated to death by the greatest country in the world. Q: Is there a more accurate term you'd pre- aaaa! AAAAAAAA! A: We prefer "outpost of liberty" or "island of freedom." Stringing together Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and Bagram Airbase creates the Freedom Archipelago. Q: So! Much! FreeedaaaAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGH!!! Q: When I die in a few minutes, will my death help the cause of freedom? A: Not really. But in a way, isn't death itself just freedom from life - the greatest prison of all? Q: Wow... you've *HRAAACK* totally blown my mind - and my lung and ribcage and my kneecaps! A: Oh, don't thank us - it's all part of being tortured to death in an American military prison!

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    Sound of Blaghdaddy falling off his chair... Sailor, you're too rich, buddy...

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#10)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    Once again if any of you who have been defending Bush really believed that Amnesty International's charges are "absurd" you would be welcoming an independent investigation. After all, this would only prove that you have been right all along. So lets keep a count of the number of Bush apologists who are calling for this. As of now, there are exactly 0.

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    ...And has hit the "ceiling" of likely conservative "independent investigation that may leave some Bush officials with chewed asses" supporters...

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#12)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    If you go to other posts on this topic you'll find alot of apologists justifying the abuse (those sworn enemies of the US had it coming or the detainees were not entitled to any protection) but what you don't find are people who deny Amnesty International's allegations. Implicit in any justification is acceptance of the truth of the allegation. Of course this is different than Bush's position (charges are "absurd") which is to deny that any of the allegations ever happened. Which is to say that even Bush's defenders believe that he is a lying scumbag.

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    Blag, wish I was that funny, all I can do it quote funny people. And why would anybody believe an illiterate that says "disassemble, that means they don’t tell the truth" I used to think he and Pres Fox got along so well because they both speak english as a second language.

    Re: Who to Believe About Guantanamo? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    What is that, "Garble-ese?"

    Who to Believe About Guantanamo? | 14 comments (14 topical)