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Friday Open Thread

I won't be back here tracking developments until later this afternoon, so here's a space for you. Three to get you going:

I see London, I see France, but spare me Saddam in his underpants. Ideas of how the London tabloid got the photos? How long till Crooks and Liars gets the video?

Check out this filibuster - nuclear option guide which the Wall St. Journal has made available online for free. It has some details other guides are missing.

And President Bush said today he'll veto stem cell research legislation. Your theocracy at work.

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    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:14 PM EST
    Hope everyone's staying ABREAST (he, he) of the "Sexy Cheerleading" legislation moving around here in Texas. Yet another example, friends. How long before book burnings around here anyway?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:14 PM EST
    Well, it looks like South Korea has reached a breakthough in Embryonic Stem Cell Technology. The Chimp in the White House reponds to this wonderful news of hope, by, in so many words, denouncing it. Gotta curry favor with the Dobsonites and American Fundamentalists. If we are not careful, in 10 years we will be the podunk backwater of the biological sciences.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:14 PM EST
    I guess I'll go to South Korea and have myself cloned. My clone then can stay in my basement until I need a heart or other organ. Once that happens, I'll just kill it and harvest the parts I need. Besides, it's not a life, it's just a bunch of cloned cells.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:14 PM EST
    Patrick, Is that how you thing this proceedure works? Wow! Do we have a contender for the least informed, ridiculous comment of the year?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:14 PM EST
    Hope everyone's staying ABREAST (he, he) of the "Sexy Cheerleading" legislation moving around here in Texas.
    It's just restricting how tax money is spent. As a Texan, I don't mind funding the shaking of athletic teenage asses in skimpy outfits. But I can see how a lot of people would resent being forced, by law, to fund it.
    How long before book burnings around here anyway?
    There is a big jump from not funding offensive material, and seizing offensive material to destroy it.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:14 PM EST
    It's about a helluva lot more than funding, A. In the end it amounts to censorship followed by suspensions, explulsions, etc. But beyond that, roy, there is no criterion in the bill. What's too sexy? Who decides? It just depends on what some peeople find offensive, I guess. Gee, sounds a little like the book bans on Ulysses, Catcher in the Rye, etc. "We know it when we see it," the morons cry.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by aw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:14 PM EST
    Roy, why not let everyone pick and choose what they will and won't fund with their tax dollars? Why does that only seem to work out for the right (sexy cheerleaders, abortion funding, womens health clinics abroad for example). I would like not to fund the war in Iraq, subsidies for big business, etc.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:14 PM EST
    It's about a helluva lot more than funding
    It took a while to find the law and its revision (search for "1476"). You're basically right, assuming "appropriate action" against performers would be disciplining stronger than "don't do that". And so long as the government is spending our money on some cheerleading, it can't discriminate based on otherwise legal content thanks to the 1st Amendment. So, as a borderline Libertarian, I say we just stop funding school athletics altogether.
    But beyond that, roy, there is no criterion in the bill.
    Yes, the cheerleading law is vague. That's a good enough reason to oppose this particular law. But, more abstractly, is it the government's job to take money from people and spend it on sexy dancing?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:14 PM EST
    aw,
    Roy, why not let everyone pick and choose what they will and won't fund with their tax dollars?
    You sort of can, by electing people who share your ideas about what should be funded. Your guy lost.
    Why does that only seem to work out for the right (sexy cheerleaders, abortion funding, womens health clinics abroad for example)
    Don't forget Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, and teaching Evolution. Anytime we take money from people, it'll be spend in a way that makes somebody mad.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:14 PM EST
    Roger, Obviously it doesn't work that way now, but you must be naive if you think that's too far away not to be concerned about it.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    1630 dead US soldiers (plus 180 soldiers in coalition, including 88 Brits) Bush-Blair Conspiracy PROOF 182 US soldiers have died establishing Cheney's oil and LNG pipelines in Afghanistan. The 2,000 soldiers which Bush dribbled into that country (versus the 150,000 sent to innocent-of-9i1 Iraq), allowed Osama bin Laden to escape. They have NOT defeated the Taliban and are in fact offering a truce at last report. Since oil income is the only reason they are there, Mission Accomplished. 1423 dead US soldiers since Bush urged hostiles to 'Bring it on.' The Rape of America continues. The Rape of the US military continues. ē 40-50,000 GIs deployed with NO Kevlar body-armor. ē During initial invasion, TWO PERCENT of GI vehicles had armor. Unnecessary, illegal, undermanned, undersupplied, and GENOCIDAL, the Iraq invasion's true policy is CIVIL WAR. As Henry F* Kissinger said in early 2004 (he didn't know he was being recorded), "There is no more Iraq. There will be three territories." Dismantling a sovereign country to install airbases is genocide under the Genocide Convention, which the US signed under Reagan. Bush and his fellow felons continue to lie about their true purposes. They continue to make piles of money from their illegal actions, and the Republican party leadership is complicit. Save Our System of government. Spread these facts, because the corporate media is complicit. Boycott corporate media.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    that is like seeing hitler in his "undrepants" why not just show him being raped by 5 guards? but it is our way and hell we do it to our own don't we? maybe bin laden is right about all of you? how soon before I.C.E., Comes for me? or you? but i would love to see bush nude in a cell with bin and saddam and a lot of other world guys oh yes don't put fox in with bush, you know why?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    Paul in La..La 1423 dead US soldiers since Bush urged hostiles to 'Bring it on.' .... Bush and his fellow felons continue to lie about their true purposes. I knew you wouldn't let me down.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    Food for thought ... for the left. from a Northern Californian. Try This: Try driving around as a Gringo in Mexico with no liability insurance..... and have an accident.... First, enter MEXICO illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas, international law, or any of that nonsense. Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family. Demand bilingual nurses and doctors. Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc. Procreate abundantly. Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive behavior with, "It is a cultural United States thing. You would not understand, pal." Keep your American identity strong. Fly Old Glory from your rooftop,or proudly display it in your front window or on your car bumper. Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your children do likewise. Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system. Demand a local Mexican driver license. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal, presence in Mexico. Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its officers. Good luck! Because it will never happen. It will not happen in Mexico or any other country in the world... except right here in the United States... Land of the naive! (IE - left)!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    I'm all for de-funding school athletics. Schools should at most provide facilities for such things, and their operations should be staffed by volunteers, and the purchase of equipment should be funded by parents and/or donations. It never fails to chap my hide when I hear of academic programs getting the slice so that the football team can get new uniforms (and that crap happens all the time). A senior, tenured physicist friend of mine at CU-Boulder's Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy was laid off a few years ago for that very reason. Fortunately for him, a very rich alumnus of the University of Denver died about the same time and left his millions to DU for the purpose of rebuilding their nearly defunct astronomy program, so my friend's running that operation now.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    I'm so glad there is a place to post this: Oh but for a colon..... hahahaha Without a colon : 0 U.S. Probes Saddam Underwear Photos. With a colon : ) U.S. Probes Saddam Underwear: Photos. Yes bad stuff is happening too, and yes this is a better place to live than Mexico (so we should pull up the bridge and shoot them in the moat, apparently) but every once and awhile you gotta laugh.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    There is also a bit of irony added to the children's song: I see London, I see France... I see Saddam's underpants. : )

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    BB, good one. "Yeah, b, b, but we're the enlightened ones..."

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    There is no rational defense for the "sexy cheerleading bill" whatever; it is a play out of the Green Police book, period. You don't like the routines, don't go. And yes I realize a lot of you are offended by the idea of public education, you disavow any stake in the community whatever, and you would use my argument to make the case that you shouldn't have to fund what you don't like. Though still we must fund all your petty wars and Falwell and Dobson and Chan Channing etc. but that's another issue. Long live the concrete jungle and all that, you cry. And all this only adds a few points to your moron barometers. Take the enormous stick out of your collective anuses and realize that what you find offensive is utterly subjective. That's why there's no criterion in the bill.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    BB...You make fair points, and our compassion is certainly abused by some illegal immigrants. But many come here and work and use no services, all the while paying SS taxes that they can never collect benefits against. There is another side of the coin. I know, I know...they are "breaking the law". I guess since I'm a law breaker too I can relate. I'd hope we treat people better than the ultra-crooked Mexican govt. I mean, if an illegal immigrant shows up at the emergency room bleeding to death, what are you gonna do? Say "Tough break guy, born to far south, get lost you're bleeding all over the joint". As my old buddy Goliath would say...."That's not the Christian thing to do Davey" It's not a big issue for me, so I wish you luck in getting anyone in govt. to notice.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    Maybe his package IS the WMD, and all along Bush's crusade was a case of penis envy. I can see Rumsfeld in the cabinet meeting..."Mr. President, Saddam has more junk than anyone in this room, we must fuel the F16's immediately."

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    LOL Kdog... I remember Davey and Goliath too. They were on realllly early on the weekends. "Gosh Davey... I dunno if you should do that" : )

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    LMFAO Now, you've made my weekend, kdog.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    Early Sundays here mfox...nothing like Christian claymation!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    And yes I realize a lot of you are offended by the idea of public education, you disavow any stake in the community whatever...
    They take away the money I work for. If I try to keep it, they send men with guns to arrest me for tax evasion. They waste a portion of the money working through layers of beurocracy. They spend the rest on faddish methods that work worse than cheaper alternatives, employees who have limited accountability, and make-work projects. What's offensive about that? As for the community, since when is it my job to provide overpriced day-care for my neighbors' kids?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    "Grow the f**k up." Che's Lounge, winner of the ultimate TL irony award.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    ďTake the enormous stick out of your collective anuses and realize that what you find offensive is utterly subjective.Ē So Ö Iím assuming that you are either in favor of funding wars and education or neither wars nor education; or perhaps your own stick has damaged your sense of irony. I say all you warmongers or fighters of injustice grab your rifles and buy a plane ticket, donít ask me to pay. Likewise, all you breeders save up, Iíve got my own priorities and they donít include giving you and your snot-nosed kid a free ride. ďAs for the community, since when is it my job to provide overpriced day-care for my neighbors' kids?Ē Get hip to the newspeak roy, community ainít block parties and local philanthropy.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    Exciting news! There's finally been an act of violence tangentially connected to the Minuteman Project!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    p-wiggles, As you probably guessed, I am A)in favor of funding wars and education. Both of these fall into the province of the public interest. That being said, I do wish that the wars we fund were limited to necessary ones (in others words, wars that in some way behoove the safety of American citizens), as opposed to political charades, like the war we have now in Iraq.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    During a commercial break for the Mavs/Suns game I flipped to Hannity and Colmes and saw the most marvellous interchange I have ever seen on Fox. Bob Beckell was the hero of it. This isn't verbatim but very close: Hannity: Why should this woman, the daughter of a sharecropper, a single mother who's worked hard her whole life, be denied an up or down vote? Beckell (flamboyantly): I don't care if she's a one-legged leftist Lithuanian lesbian--she's a bad judge and that's why she doesn't deserve a vote. Great stuff. Beckell's one of like three people working for that tabloid that isn't an outright tool.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    Glanton, Good one. I think I found what John Bolton was talking about in his "Cuba is a biological terrorist threat" speech that was denied the next day by that unfortunate State Dept. analyst. Or we could ask Tom Delay, who seems to think that illegal products are Okie Dokie for some of us.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    Ay Carumba. Go Here and Here Ya know, ya try to be clever...

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    glanton - And I would guess that if she was a left wing "one-legged leftist Lithuanian lesbian" Beckell would have a different position. Hmmmmmmm?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    Jim, the point is she's a bad judge. Sorry it was so difficult.