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Mixing Religion and Politics

By TChris, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Wed May 11, 2005 at 02:43:52 PM EST
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by TChris

Some members of the East Waynesville Baptist Church in North Carolina were displeased when Rev. Chan Chandler told them he'd kick them out of the church if they voted for Kerry. Rev. Chandler denies that he "positively endorsed" Bush, but admits that he gave Kerry a "negative endorsement." That subtle distinction apparently convinces Rev. Chandler that he didn't turn his church into a satellite office for the Bush campaign.

Still, long-standing parishoners didn't approve of Rev. Chandler's desire to politicize their church.

Tensions had escalated last week, when several members said Chandler called a meeting of the church's board of deacons and declared his intention for East Waynesville to become a politically active church. Anyone who did not like that direction was free to leave, Chandler said a statement that caused nine members to walk out.

Extremists seem to enjoy causing diviseness, and that's what Rev. Chandler did. In the end, Rev. Chandler resigned, but he took with him "many of the young congregants" he recruited, leaving behind those who sensibly believe that government and religion should play separate roles in their lives.

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    Mixing Religion and Politics | 16 comments (16 topical)
    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:58 PM EST
    Now this horribly vicitmized simple preacher man can go on the road and tell his sad sad story to the Randell Flagg..oops Terry, crowd...for thousands of bucks a pop. Just like Judge (I don't have to obey the law) Moore.

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:58 PM EST
    Rev. Niemoller is turning over in his grave. Think the congregation will move to Spokane?

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#3)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:58 PM EST
    Anyone think that there is ANY chance of them losing their tax-exempt status? Equal protection my a**!

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#4)
    by The Heretik on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:58 PM EST
    Does the name Elmer Gantry ring a bell?

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:58 PM EST
    I never thought the Republican Party would become a graven image. This is where they must receive their Divine Inspiration. Rev. Niemoeller (spelled correctly)

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#6)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:58 PM EST
    et al - I hate to brag, but I commented on the first posting of this that Southern Baptists love to split and form new churches. I even noted that the Rev. would probably end up going. But I again note that if you want to moan about tax exempt status you do it equally, and start looking at the large number of black churches who are politically active, been addressed by Demo politicians, etc. Given that the Repubs have the power, you might get what you want, but not want what you get.

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    Kdog, We almost agree (Jesus didnt slap any of the other pharisees - turned some tables over and ran some folks out of the temple) I'll just say that it is good those evangelical southern Baptists got rid of the crazy "Religious Right" fanatic (that was fairly sarcastic) Does this help y'all with your paranoia about evangelicals any?

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#9)
    by SeeEmDee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    JCHFleetguy: not unless they are willing to forgo their beliefs that they are in an a priori position, based merely upon their 'beliefs', that they are qualified to tell others how to live their lives. When they finally do so, then I will cease to be mistrustful of them. Not before. BTW, that goes equally for any 'progressives' that also feel that they are better qualified to run their neigbors' lives than their neighbors, themselves. I've had enough of 'do-gooderism'...from both Left and Right.

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#10)
    by Dark Avenger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    PPJ, as I pointed out in the previous thread, the question isn't whether or not SB churches throwing out members, ministers, etc. is unusual, but you're acting as though the reason in this case is on the same level as throwing someone out for drinking, chasing women, or stating that there might be something to the Catholic Doctrine of Justification by Works(or heresy, in SB terms). "Nothing to see here folks, just move along." I humbly beseech you to tell me if my impression is correct, because I'm only a fallible mortal, AFAIK. I submit that it isn't and that it's very unusual for someone in this country to be thrown out of any Protestant church organized like the SBs are because of their political views or how they voted. As for the black churches, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there are predominately white congregations who do the same kind of thing in red areas of the country, ie, invite only politicians from the Holy(oops, change to GOP-ed) side of things, if it were to be investigated. The real solution is to tax churches, as there is no constitutional bar in doing so, AFAIK. JCHF: It diminishes my paranoia about Dominionists who try to pass themselves off as Evangelicals, as I'm not worried about Evangelicals per se, but the ones who also subscribe to the Dominionist POV, just as I'm not worried about all Muslims, just the ones who want me dead or converted to their interpretation of the teachings of the Koran. BWT, et al: If you believe that a church which threw out some members for voting for Bush last year wouldn't get the same kind of press coverage as this poor fool has, I've got some magic beans I'd like you to have a look at.

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#11)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    DA - My point was that this a very usual type of activity. Whether the speific activity is right or wrong is another question. I think you see it as wrong. Okay fine. Call your elected officals and complain. But if anything happens, a tit for tat situation will likely develop.

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    Well said Dee. Both left and right are guilty of "do-gooderism", I've had it too. What happened to "to each his own"?

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dark Avenger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    PPJ, you miss the point again, and for the second time in a few days, you are inferring something that isn't in my post. I've never used the spectrum of right vs. wrong in discussing this issue here. I think you see it as wrong. Again, The question isn't a matter of right or wrong, but whether it's unusual or not for expulsion to be predicated on the political views of the expellees. The fact that you don't address this issue speaks for itself. As for me, I can't see anything wrong about it. It apparently didn't break any rules of the SB denomination(not that I worry about them follwing their rules, as that's their problem, not mine). Also, it makes the minister and his followers look stupid, which is something I'm in favor of when it involves conservatives, so I believe it was the right thing to do. Call your elected officals and complain Since you seem to be reading-impared today, go back and read my previous post, which tell you my solution to the problem of church/politics intersection.(Hint: it does involve elected officials, but not complaining to them about anyone) If followed, no one would have a dog in this matter, including you and I. Wouldn't it be lovely?

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#15)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    DA - I would say the rules of the church, as set by the elders govern. Be they right, be they wrong. And call or not call or whatever. Your business. Have fun. Hope that isn't too complicated.

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#16)
    by Dark Avenger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:01 PM EST
    As for me, I can't see anything wrong about it DA - I would say the rules of the church, as set by the elders govern I don't dispute that. I don't even CARE whether or not it was right or wrong, as I told you in my 3:57 PM post: I've never used the spectrum of right vs. wrong in discussing this issue here. Are either of the last two sentences so hard to understand, individually or together? Is considering whether or not the REASON for the expulsion is usual, typical, etc. or not a valid question? I don't think that this is a "Have you stopped beating your wife" kind of question, BTW. We really seem to be talking past each other here, PPJ.

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#17)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    DA writes - "Is considering whether or not the REASON for the expulsion is usual, typical, etc. or not a valid question.." The reason was one group got mad at the other. Happens all the time. Seems simple to me.

    Re: Mixing Religion and Politics (none / 0) (#18)
    by Dark Avenger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    The reason was one group got mad at the other Yes, I think that would be true for any split of any congregation, they don't separate because they feel brotherly love towards each other, DUH! Your dogdging and weaving must keep you in shape, you've done a lot of it here........

    Mixing Religion and Politics | 16 comments (16 topical)