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Lynndie England Pleads Guilty

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Mon May 02, 2005 at 08:58:14 AM EST
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Pfc. Lynndie England pleaded guilty today to seven charges. A jury will determine her punishment.

England pleaded guilty to two counts of conspiracy, four counts of abusing detainees and one count of committing an indecent act, during a morning pre-trial hearing at Fort Hood, Texas.

She pleaded not guilty to two other counts against her: dereliction of duty and committing an indecent act.

Her ex-boyfriend, prioner abuser Charles Graner is expected to testify for her at her sentencing. Reportedly, Graner is the father of the child conceived at Abu Ghraib. He has since married another reserve officer soldier who pleaded guilty to prisoner abuse charges, Spc. Megan Ambuhl.

Earlier reports have the expected sentence at three years, but she could receive as many as 11.

....Under an agreement reported before her plea, the 22-year-old reservist from rural West Virginia could face a maximum prison term of 11 years, instead of more than 16 years, after pleading guilty to seven of the nine counts against her.

In March, the number of counts England faced and the maximum possible sentence were cut by more than half in revised charges filed by the commanding general at Fort Hood. The original charges brought against her at Fort Bragg carried a maximum sentence of 38 years.

Here are the details of an earlier statement she made to authorities about the abuse.

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    Lynndie England Pleads Guilty | 39 comments (39 topical)
    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:54 PM EST
    Ouch, nice find, Heretik. Blaghdaddy's got some antique Canadian lapel pins from the '88 Winter Games if anyone's planning to travel abroad anytime soon... Funny, this guy Granier appear to like to bend over the non-commissioned personel...wait 'til it's his turn in the big house.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:54 PM EST
    Why she listened to Rumsfeld & Gonzalez's instructions on mistreatment but ignored their advice not to take photos remains a mystery. I read where some of the innocents(99% by some estimates) mistreated at the prison just blew up some young Iraqi children yesterday.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#7)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:55 PM EST
    It's is frustrating to see the guppies get sent up river and leave the sharks behind to continue feeding on the iraqi carcuss

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:55 PM EST
    By sharks, are you referring to the insurgents blowing up people or is it only Americans who are villains.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:55 PM EST
    You realize that these degenerates represent the American soldier to a good-sized chunk of the Middle East? (And Ed at 12:23 & 1:04?--you might want to be careful with that willful stupidity bit. Wouldn't want it to turn into a habit.)

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:55 PM EST
    Hey Ed, can Blaghdaddy have some of that Kool-Aid you're drinkin'? Comparing American troops to terrorist insurgents is something the other side does. You don't point to lawbreakers for justification when your guys break the law...you deal with them...that's what makes us better than them... Go make excuses for these people on FoxSpews, please. We're all stocked up on B.S. here.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:52:55 PM EST
    I am sorry for the willful stupidity/sarcasm. I just have a problem when the only evil/fault pointed out on this site usually belongs to the United States. I guess the willful stupidity of seeing Iraq as a country of kite flying peace lovers goes over your head and is not worthy of complaint.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:02 PM EST
    Well Ed, being as the US govt. is the only govt. that represents me and the only govt. to which I pay taxes, they will be the ones I gripe about. When the Iraqi insurgency represents me, or collects taxes from me, I will gladly gripe about their wrongdoings. But I have no say in the affairs of Iraqis, only in the affairs of my country. Make sense?

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    Sorry, in my opinion it does not make sense. While it is fair and proper to gripe about one's government, many comments/posts here focus on the US as the source of evil in the world. That has nothing to do with tax collection and everything to do with a warped perspective on the world. In an era where genocide is occurring in the Sudan and mass graves are still being uncovered in Iraq, the weeping and wailing over these photographs is just a little overwrought.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    So, Ed, you're saying that Americans spend too much time worrying about their own government corruption when there's lot's of it internationally? Well, then, how about providing welfare to all those people whose wretched conditions turn them into the same people you want to hold to the same standards as people who grew up white and middle-class in America (as privileged a group as you'll ever find)? How about punishing your own evil-doers with the same zeal that you want to pursue terrorists. Ed, terrorists are terrorists, that's why they're terrorists. Are Americans who brutalize POW's terrorists? If not, why are you applying that code of behavior to them? They deserve far worse than any terrorist because they should know far better than those whom they're torturing that it's wrong... Or do you suddenly have a problem with accountability?

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    And another thing about your last comment, Ed... Are you really saying that it's not a big deal that Americans brutalize foreigners in their own country because others do it too? Welcome to "Ed's Kool-Aid Stand," folks.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#16)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    Hey Ed Putting japanese Americans in prison camps is justified because the enemy is really bad. would it be ok to torture you ed because our government tortured them. I'm tired of this stupid lame brain "I speed because the other guy speeds" crap. It is obvious you are infering we who criticize our Govt are not Patriots and in fact just the opposit is true. I'm sorry the only thing we have in common is our name. :(

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    I am more in favor of perspective than brutalizing Iraqi prisoners. I suppose if I were to respond in kind, I could ask if you find these photos to be the equivalent of genocide in the Sudan or the mass graves. If you do, you have the problem, not me.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    So unless they're the equivalent of mass murder, these people get a pass? Are you for real, man? They committed acts which, in America, committed against ordinary citizens picked up from the street on suspicion of a crime, would have gotten them sent to the big house for a long, long time...let's just apply American law to them....you got a problem with that too?

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#19)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    Ok folks, according to Ed we must always add to our comments "But the other guy is bad too" and ED (The not me ED) will be happy. Do I have it right (Not me) ED?

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    Ed, your perspective is that the United States torturing people is no big deal compared to other crimes committed by other countries. One of the problems with that is that its not our tax money subsidizing the Sudan, etc. killing people. And it's not making me as a citizen of this country look like a fool who supports a government that tortures people. While your argument gives me the perspective that you indeed are.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    Touché, Friend of Blagh...the fact that you must point it out is a sad commentary on how some of our fellow human being think and act... Hey, Ed, why the hell did the States go after Bin Laden after 9/11? That was Puppy Chow compared to Sudan, wouldn't you say? Compared to Rwanda? Hell, let's just blow up the whole f#*king world so you don't get your racist knickers in a knot because a few white people got in trouble for kicking around some Arab dogs...

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#22)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    Boy I wouldn't like to be ED right now! Everyone is after Eds ass. uh oh I'm Ed but I'm not that Ed I'm the Good ED! Really :) Ed back me up on this will you.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EST
    Ernesto beat me to it...good job. Ed, genocide in Sudan is not done in my name. Saddam's crimes were not done in my name. Abu Gharib was done in my name, and I'm pissed! Aren't you, or since it's worse in Sudan it's ok?

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:04 PM EST
    Man, Talk Left is so much more fun now!!! Who else agrees with Blaghdaddy?

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:04 PM EST
    sorry folks. I am not worried about being ganged up on if the above are the best you can do. I am not in favor of brutalizing the prisoners. Apparently, given that the folks who did it are going to prison, neither is the military. I still have no answer to my question regarding perspective. Private England pointing to the privates of the prisoners is not going to make me see the US as the source of all evil. Unfortunately for many posters, you were already there.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:04 PM EST
    If you don't think England represents evil, buddy, you don't know what it is... These Arab Muslim men would rather have been sodomized with a broomstick (another American favorite for non-Americans, right Abner?) than be naked in front of this woman...the crime is not in your view of it, but in theirs... But we all know that you have an underlying motive, one that makes you unable to hear anything bad about America whatever it does, and that's not patriotism. That is hating your country, because if you aren't disappointed and angry when your kids f#*k up, you're no parent. If you're not disappointed and angry when people wearing the Stars and Stripes do these things in front of the world, you're no longer worth debating...

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:05 PM EST
    Again, if you are incapable of distinguishing between the evil of Private England and the far worse things that go on in the world, the problem is yours. You are correct that the usefulness of debating is limited. Unless I say "America is the root of all evil in the world and anything America does is wrong", you would never approve.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#28)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:05 PM EST
    Blaghdaddy Let me tell you Ed Beckmann fully agrees with you on this one! :)

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#29)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:53:05 PM EST
    Perspective: the art of justifying wrongdoing by pointing out others committed worse. It is ok that the president picks and chooses who gets the protection of the geneva convention. It is ok that Rumsfeld OKs methods of torture by declaring that they aren't torture. It is ok that we invaded another country and ignored those who committed terrorist acts against ours. The fact that we are worried about the CONSEQUENCES of our government's actions over the next decade is just plain silly. The fact that we don't want bad things to happen to our country is downright unpatriotic.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#1)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:39 PM EST
    He has since married another reserve officer who pleaded guilty to prisoner abuse charges, Spc. Megan Ambuhl.
    Small point. SPC Ambuhl is enlisted, not officer.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:39 PM EST
    Everytime I see the pictures it hurts, especially since I helped pay for it, and continue to do so. I fear there is no stopping the downward spiral of our nation, aside from a tax revolt. But how can you tax revolt when taxes are taken, and not given? To quote the Stones..."It's too bad, they got you by the balls." I'd love to bankrupt the rat bastards.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:39 PM EST
    What, Granier's going to testify on her behalf? What, are they trying to make sure she gets the chair? The one in the basement with batteries hooked to it would be a good one to start with...

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#4)
    by The Heretik on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:39 PM EST
    Painful for me too, Blahdaddy. We will continue to pay for this for a long time. A bit on the effect it is having on our soldiers here at today's Blessed Is the Prisoner

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#30)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:39 PM EST
    Ed (not Ed), Private England pointing to the privates of the prisoners is not going to make me see the US as the source of all evil. Then maybe you should look around more. We haven't seen the worst of what happened at Abu Ghraib. Your conveniently simplistic approach to international politics is, as the Attorney General would say, quaint.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#31)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:39 PM EST
    Che(who is Che) I don't know how you managed to jump to International politics from a discussion and statement about the lack of responsibility at the top in the Abu Graib Torture scandle? It is easy to throw around red herrings to avoid issues isn't it. You want to discuss International Politics? Pick a topic I'm open.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#32)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:39 PM EST
    Jen Well spoken

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:40 PM EST
    Interesting to hear all wanting to know why their patriotism is being questioned when the word was never mentioned. I like the references to internment camps and Abner Louima. I'll bite though. Does the fact that there were internment camps in the US in WWII blind you to the evil of the other side or do you consider them proportional to the wrongs of Japan and Germany? If so, should we have lost/given up in WWII. That is the argument you are making. Abu Ghraib was wrong, therefore we should lose even though the other side is so much worse. If only prior generations had such wisdom.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:40 PM EST
    is not going to make me see the US as the source of all evil
    The source of all evil, of course not. But a source of some evil, and the only source I have a say in. I'd prefer the other countries do evil, and we do good, instead of all the world doing evil. Bombing the crap out of a defenseless nation is evil, torturing prisoners is evil...let's be the good guys again!

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:40 PM EST
    blaghdaddy.... If you're not disappointed and angry when people wearing the Stars and Stripes do these things in front of the world, you're no longer worth debating. Dude, you make things sound so simple...but they're not. When you are in combat, (not sure if you ever have?) you do what needs to be done. We learned a valuable lesson in Nam.... You have to fight fire with fire. If taking pictures of these guys naked humiliated them and got them to talk (thus saving only one American life) then it was worth it. Are you going to tell me that you would be against heading off a 9/11 type attack if it involved this type of humiliation? If so, you are very naive! Besides, most of these guys in prison were not innocent civilians. I'd like to see you in a situation were the Humvee in front of you is blown to bits... you capture some "innocent civilians" running from there and you'd serve them tea & crumpets, right? And, I (for one) am tired of worrying about what "the rest of the world" thinks about us. Most of them have hated us for a long time...no matter what we do.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:40 PM EST
    BB, my fellow lover of freedom, I must disagree. These men who were tortured were not on the battlefield, they were in chains. Basic human dignity is an unalienable right of all human beings. We must hold ourselves to a higher standard than Muslim wackos and brutal dictators, or else we ourselves become wackos. It may sound cold, but I for one am against torture even if it could prevent a large scale attack, because by employing torture as policy we no longer have a nation worth saving. As you can see, I do not believe Abu Garib was the work of a few bad apples, unless those apples are Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, Cheney and Bush. No state sanctioned torture, I would hope, is a pillar of our not yet formed Common Sense party. People in US custody deserve basic human dignity and humane traetment, it's common sense for the "good guys".

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:41 PM EST
    Kdog.... No state sanctioned torture, I would hope, is a pillar of our not yet formed Common Sense party. I agree...but see...there's the rub. State sanctioning is not what (I believe) happened here. As I stated before, when in the field of combat you do what you need to do. As much as many on here hate our current Government, this is not (and never has been) SOP. These men who were tortured were not on the battlefield, they were in chains. Yes but they were caught in the field of battle which makes them suspect and open for 'interrogation'! The real mistake here was documenting this. Not to worry Kdog...we can hammer out these minor details at our convention.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#38)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:41 PM EST
    Ed Beckman, I meant that for the other Ed. I tend to agree with your positions on many issues. The Ed thread.

    Re: Lynndie England Pleads Guilty (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:58:41 PM EST
    No I'm glad it was documented BB, now I know car batteries are being hooked up to nutsacks on our dime. Before I only assumed as much. I can't live with that. A soldier in the heat of battle shooting someone in the back, I can understand and live with that. A bomber pilot missing his target and hitting a school, though obscene, is understandable if the war is just. I can't stretch that into hooking car batteries up to prisoner's sex organs. That can never be acceptable, or we become what we despise.

    Lynndie England Pleads Guilty | 39 comments (39 topical)