Trump Debate Performance: Fat-Shaming, Sniffling, and Outright False Statements

Devastating to Trump. On Twitter last night, Alicia Machado thanked Hillary for the shout-out during the debate. Here's Alicia telling her story in May, 2016:

Another interview the same month is here. [More....]

Mother Jones reported about this 10 days ago, with links to some news articles at the time. Also, Trump wrote in his book, The Art of the Comeback:

“The [1997 Miss Universe] pageant in Miami Beach, my first as owner, was a huge success. We’d sold out the house; it was a mob scene. From my position offstage, I was able to glance up to the greenroom occasionally. I could just see Alicia Machado, the current Miss Universe, sitting there plumply. God, what problems I had with this woman. First, she wins. Second, she gains fifty pounds. Third, I urge the committee not to fire her. Fourth, I go to the gym with her, in a show of support. Final act: She trashes me in The Washington Post — after I stood by her the entire time. What’s wrong with this picture? Anyway, the best part about the evening was the knowledge that next year, she would no longer be Miss Universe.” (“Trump: The Art of the Comeback”)

To be fair, Trump didn't deny calling her "Miss Piggy" or "Miss Housekeeping." He just asked Hillary three times where she found that.

Even the hackers are upset that he fat-shamed them by saying they weighed 400 pounds and did their hacking from bed. (And what, by the way, is "the cyber"?)

And yes, he did tell NBC News in 2004 that pregnancy is an inconvenience to employers.

Here's his tweet on global warming:

The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.

As mentioned earlier, he told Howard Stern he supported the war in Iraq in September, 2002. You can listen here. Buzzfeed reports it was 17 months before Trump came out against the war in Iraq.

The only possible explanations for his denials tonight that I can think of are (1) he's lying or (2) he has Alzheimer's. Either way, he shouldn't be President.

Check out the #TrumpSniffle. After the debate, Trump said his microphone was defective. Is there any evidence he took illegal substances? No. He may have had a cold or allergies and took too much sudafed or benedryl. He did drink a lot of water and seemed to have a dry mouth. But don't blame cocaine: my cocaine-using clients are more coherent and less rude (they don't interrupt others like he does.)

Another funny meme from last night: Where Was Lester Holt?

Also: Buzzfeed's Fact Check; Trump's Incompetence a Slap in the Face to His Supporters. From Daily Beast, Hillary Clinton Goes the Distance as Donald Trump Punches Himself Out

Here's the debate transcript. My favorite part:

But this is a man who has called women pigs, slobs and dogs, and someone who has said pregnancy is an inconvenience to employers, who has said...

TRUMP: I never said that.

CLINTON: .... women don’t deserve equal pay unless they do as good a job as men.

TRUMP: I didn’t say that.

CLINTON: And one of the worst things he said was about a woman in a beauty contest. He loves beauty contests, supporting them and hanging around them. And he called this woman “Miss Piggy.” Then he called her “Miss Housekeeping,” because she was Latina. Donald, she has a name.

TRUMP: Where did you find this? Where did you find this?

CLINTON: Her name is Alicia Machado.

TRUMP: Where did you find this?

CLINTON: And she has become a U.S. citizen, and you can bet...

TRUMP: Oh, really?

CLINTON: ... she’s going to vote this November.

How many times did Trump interrupt Hillary? The New York Times crunches the numbers and says 29.

Does any of this make Trump's uninformed supporters less likely to support him? No. But it may make them less committed to remembering to mail or drop off their ballots. As to the undecided, there probably aren't many of them left. And I'm sure tonight's debate performance didn't win him many female votes.

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  • Display: Sort:
    The China Global Warming Tweet (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by smott on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 07:29:53 AM EST
    Was deleted last night

    Yeah, but Hillary's (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 07:41:19 AM EST
    campaign got a screen shot of it before they deleted it.

    Sounds like Team Clinton... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 11:38:45 AM EST
    is more on the "cyber" ball...LOL.

    Trump should put his cyber-genius 10 year old on the payroll as a campaign IT consultant, but he probably already has, as part of his election profiteering model.  Like a mafia "no show" job down at the docks kinda deal.


    in another time and place, after a (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by cpinva on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 08:16:19 AM EST
    "performance" like this, a senior member of the RNC would go to Mr. Trump's office, lay a .45, with one round in the chamber, on his desk and then leave, expecting Mr. Trump to do the honorable thing. his death would be reported as due to a heart attack, condolences to the family, etc. a state funeral would be held, he would be eulogized as a great man, a patriot, etc. the problem would be solved.

    not that I'm at all suggesting this, but if I were in charge of the RNC, I'd certainly be wishing he went for a hike on the Appalachian Trail....................

    I saw Josh Marshall say that Trump always sniffles (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 11:13:05 AM EST
    like that, but I sure have never noticed it. I think he must have something going on. It is fun to joke about coke use, but I suspect it is more mundane like a cold.

    I said in the other thread and will reiterate that I was really glad Clinton did not complain about all of the interruptions. As a viewer, it is annoying to watch the person take time to complain about being interrupted. Besides, Trump was digging his own hole, playing into every sexist stereotype by constantly interrupting the woman in the 'meeting'. Lots of us have been there.

    What Deborah Tannen called (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 11:33:34 AM EST
    "Lecturing behavior."

    (like this)


    Trump seems like the type... (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 11:35:20 AM EST
    who could actually benefit from some drug use....when your brain is scrambled eggs sober, certain drugs might help unscramble it a little bit.

    Some psychedelic therapy might help with his empathy problem too.  But I'm no Dr. Oz;)


    In Trump's case.. (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 11:52:41 AM EST
    it would require a peyote tea colonic administered with a high-pressure fire hose..

    The same treatment I prescribed for Ted Nugent awhile back.


    Like, maybe, say... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 11:59:19 AM EST
    Adderal?  'Cause if the rumours suggesting that's the case, it didn't work very well last night.

    For real... (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 12:04:13 PM EST
    Donald Trump could star in an after-school special on the debilitating effects of ADD...well, debilitating if you don't start with a small 14 million dollar loan and easily exploitable corporate bankruptcy laws.

    A different draw in the birth lottery and this f*cking guy would be panhandling and talking to himself hanging around Penn Station...I am convinced.


    I noticed it quite some time ago (none / 0) (#54)
    by Amiss on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 08:48:23 PM EST
    I say he does it so much that it is caused by his lying. My husband says they get louder, the bigger
    the lies get.

    Hillary Clinton's performance was virtuoso. (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 12:30:14 PM EST
    As bad as Trump's showing was last night, she really ought to be credited for having played him brilliantly. She baited Trump repeatedly as though she were fishing for largemouth bass, and time again he rose to that bait and swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

    By drawing forth the very worst from him, Mrs. Clinton created as sharp a neon-bright contrast between two candidates as we're ever likely to see in our lifetimes, and it resulted in some devastatingly brutal headlines for last night's big loser.

    Obviously, there are still six weeks to go before Election Day. But if Mrs. Clinton goes on to win as expected, last night will likely be seen in retrospect as the moment she bagged her quarry, put him away and sealed the deal personally. Now, it's time for Democrats nationwide to avail themselves of this opportunity to hang Trump around the necks of Republican candidates, like a lei made of lead weights.


    Yes, there is a little of the soft bigotry (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 01:35:34 PM EST
    of high expectations going on. She was so smart strategically -  on a higher level than I've seen before, with a whole game plan mapped out. I have no doubt that if he had responded differently she would have been ready for that too.

    Dave Waldman on The Kagro in the morning podcast reminded me of a moment I forgot - when she said almost offhandedly 'he likes to hang out at these beauty pageants' in an I don't know, what do you make of that? kind of way, leading into the story of Alicia Machado.  And throwing that story out to the press...she sure knows who she is dealing with.


    Plus, the next debate is Town Hall style (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 01:38:03 PM EST
    where her conversational mode really plays well. I really would consider skipping it if I were Trump.

    Yes, I think Hillary was prepared with (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 02:18:32 PM EST
    she sure knows who she is dealing with

    different game plans because she did not know which Tr*mp would show up and also, she saw what underestimating Tr*mp did to the other Republican candidates.


    Let's not get carried away... (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 01:49:43 PM EST
    there were at least a few mistakes/meatballs Clinton left over the plate...luckily for her, Trump can't even catch up to batting practice meatballs.  

    That's like calling a victory by Man O' War in a match race against a three legged horse a virtuoso performance.


    Grading on a curve? (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 02:07:02 PM EST
    Yes, I think (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 02:36:12 PM EST
    Hillary's big lie, and one that has gone unnoticed was at the introduction, when she said to Trump, "nice to be with you."

    Perhaps not a lie after all ... (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Erehwon on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 02:47:51 PM EST
    she was probably happy to be with him ... to lay the kibosh on him finally, after the months of the deplorable stuff he's been doing!

    not gonna lie (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by CST on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 02:56:08 PM EST
    she seemed nervous during her opening question, definitely not her strongest moment.  That was followed up with Trump's strongest moment.

    I was also exceedingly nervous during this stage.

    Obviously it got much better from there, but for a minute there she had me legitimately worried.


    Relax (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 04:11:49 PM EST
    I was also exceedingly nervous during this stage.

    If you don't come to play in the fourth quarter, you are going to lose. Hillary is a closer and a finisher. She could spot Tr#mp the first three moves, and still beat him at tic-tac-toe.

    Hillary baited him with the rope-a-dope and then played him like a guppy on 20-pound test line. I was never worried because Hillary is smart and not insane while Tr#mp is insane and really stupid.  The race is not always to the strong and swift, but it's the best way to bet.


    I did not detect (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 04:18:52 PM EST
    any nervousness during the opening question.  I thought she did well from the very start and differ with those who thought Trump had a good go the first minutes.  His lies about current day trade paved the way all those to come. And, his grasp of trade, especially NAFTA, showed his ignorance of the economy.  If Trump was seen as being marginally satisfactory at this point, it is because Mrs. Clinton was in the process of springing the trap and let him carry on with his "opinion."

    don't get me wrong (none / 0) (#36)
    by CST on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 04:34:53 PM EST
    It's not that I agreed with what he was saying, as much as I recognized that it was a politically popular thing that he was saying - and he was able to articulate it coherently and forcefully in a way that he failed at for the remainder of the debate.

    And I thought she stumbled a bit over her words and was less able to articulate her views in that brief opening segment.  Clearly things turned from there in her favor, sometimes you just need to get into the flow of things, which she was able to do nicely after that.

    I don't think she "let him" carry on with his opinion there in order to trap him - the biggest trap of all was apparently letting him fail miserably at expressing any coherent opinion at all later in the debate.

    And again - it's not that I agree with him on the substance of it, but it's clearly a politically popular thing to say in a lot of circles right now.


    So says the guy who was ... (2.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 04:08:01 PM EST
    ... singing the praises of anti-vaccine troll Dr. Jill Stein not all that long ago. Your unwillingness to give credit where it's properly due is much more a reflection of you, than it is of Mrs. Clinton's performance.

    To be a little more fair.. (none / 0) (#40)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 05:44:43 PM EST
    and not to go all Lee Atwater-of-the-left, Stein also said: "I think there's no question that vaccines have been absolutely critical in ridding us of the scourge of many diseases -- smallpox, polio etc..So vaccines are an invaluable medication."

    Donald, I think Dr Jill Stein is becoming your personal bete noire; your Professor Moriarty..

    Personally, I think we have much bigger fish to fry.


    Now now jondee... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 05:55:05 PM EST
    Acknowledge the virtuosity if you know what's good for you!

    Objective analysis is for after Nov. 8th and before the midterm campaigning starts. Small window but dems the breaks;)


    Sorry. I momentarily forgot myself (none / 0) (#43)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 06:07:01 PM EST
    It won't happen again.

    Now I have to go. The Queen bee just buzzed. I have to bring her some pollen and (gladly) allow her to use my mouth for her toilet.


    True, defending NAFTA is not (none / 0) (#37)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 05:07:08 PM EST
    a good place for her, and other interviewers might not let her off the hook so easily. But maybe it was her skill in changing the subject that helped her situation too. I will have to replay....or not.

    One of the best parts of the debate (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 12:48:30 PM EST
    was right at the beginning, when after shaking hands with Trump, Hillary pointed to Mark Cuban and said "Hi Mark" as she was walking over to her podium.  Grumpy Trumpy did not like that.

    Also at the very end (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 01:29:23 PM EST
    She walked over and shook hands with Lester Holt. Trump was tight behind her and Lester extended his hand as if to shake with Trump too, and Trump deliberately walked past - you can see him looking at Holt in the clip I saw. Holt had to do the awkward...'ah, I was just reaching around to scratch my back' thing.

    What a jerk, as I have said for about the 1000 time just in the last 18 hours.


    a longer clip shows (none / 0) (#46)
    by ding7777 on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 07:12:37 PM EST
    I was also startled to see Tr*mp (none / 0) (#47)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 07:33:22 PM EST
    overlook shaking Holt's hand, on his way over to embrace his family, after shaking HRC's. But I did see him turn back to do it.

    Sorry I missed that part. (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 01:36:25 PM EST
    I was startled the first time she called him "Donald."  

    couldn;t figure out how to get the link out (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 01:47:07 PM EST
    so I tweeted it at you...if it worked..not sure how to do that either.

    I missed that part too. (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 01:48:52 PM EST
    As for calling him "Donald", I've been reading that he does not like it. I don't know whether this is true or not. Apparently, he likes to be addressed as Mr Tr*mp. She was doing it to get under his skin. It looks like it worked. He started out calling her "Secretary Clinton" and then switched to "Hillary".

    Maybe she should slip (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 02:06:09 PM EST
    in "The Donald" next time.

    Trump is also ... (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 02:33:20 PM EST
    one of those who speaks of himself in the third person.

    That's always creepy when people do that.


    I thought Clinton needed ... (5.00 / 5) (#22)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 02:09:14 PM EST
    a "Goldilocks performance" or Trump would be declared the winner by the MSM.

    She gave that performance.  She was flawless.

    Also, Trump was a complete mess.  An F minus even graded on a Trump curve.

    After Clinton mentioned Trump's dad giving him $14 million, he lost it. He became angry and unhinged.  Shaking with rage as he drank repeated sips of water.

    This rage wore him out.  And at the end of the debate he was so winded that he reached a whole new level of incoherence.

    Not sure debates mean much.  But if any debate has ever had influence ... this one should.

    As I noted last night, ... (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 04:20:30 PM EST
    ... the bar of expectations was set exceptionally low for Trump by the mainstream media last night. And even with that obvious advantage, he still managed to trip over it and face-plant on national television with 80-100 million people watching.

    Personally, I believe that when one shows up at a meeting or debate as obviously unprepared as Trump was, it's a pretty reliable indication of the personal contempt one has for his / her own obligations to both one's colleagues and one's own community. Last night, Hillary Clinton showed us that she cared, while Donald Trump clearly demonstrated that he didn't give a rat's a$$.



    I heard it put as (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 05:08:50 PM EST
    he had the bar set low and still got under it, and she had it set high and still cleared it. I think that about sums it up.

    I was sure it was (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 03:00:33 PM EST
    another repeat of didn't fall over and drool coming at us with the low standards the media had for Trump. Amazing that he couldn't even pull off those low standards.

    Donald Trump once again (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by hilts on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 04:03:37 PM EST
    exposed himself to be a clueless monstrosity.  Hopefully, Hillary can overcome the tide of low information voters and give Trump the thumping he deserves on Election Day.

    Hillary Clinton has just picked up ... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 08:23:28 PM EST
    ... the endorsement of Phoenix's Arizona Republic, which its editors note is the very first time in 126 years that they've endorsed a Democrat for president.

    Now, that math doesn't necessarily add up, since Arizona has only been a state since 1912 (104 years) and citizens of U.S. territories have never been allowed to vote for president. But all quibbling over a few decades aside, the endorsement is significant for Democrats because it means that the state is actually in play.


    I'd imagine... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 08:33:07 PM EST
    they didn't endorse a Democrat in their years in publication prior to Arizona achieving statehood.

    Barry Goldwater wouldn't endorse Trump...though they'd perhaps find common ground on tactically nuking people.


    The Barry Goldwater of 1994, ... (none / 0) (#60)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 10:09:00 PM EST
    ... finally wised up as he was by eight-plus decades' worth of life's experiences, would probably not have endorsed Donald Trump. But the Barry Goldwater of thirty years prior, who was an uncompromising ideological fool of the first order, most likely would have endorsed Trump, enthusiastically so.

    The George Wallace who governed Alabama from 1983 to 1987 was a far cry from the uncompromising segregationist and polarizing figure who was first elected to that post two decades earlier. Becoming a paraplegic as the result of a would-be assassin's bullet in 1972 gave him cause to rethink his own life's trajectory, and eventually instilled within him a considerable empathy for African Americans, whose own struggles he had so adamantly refused to acknowledge back in the 1960s.

    As a result of his crisis of conscience, Wallace traveled to black churches throughout the state to confess his sins and seek their forgiveness. When he ran for governor for the last time in 1982, the black vote carried him to victory and he didn't forget it, appointing more African Americans to state office than any other Alabama governor, before or since.

    People do retain within their souls an innate capacity to grow throughout their lives, and the perpetually immature can still finally grow up even well into adulthood. Whether or not they chose to do so is entirely up to them, and often depends upon what happens to them during the course of their respective lifetimes. Each of us exists as a sum total of our own experiences on this planet.



    Nothing wrong with endorsing (none / 0) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 09:32:28 PM EST
    even when you can't vote. The Arizona Republican was first published in 1890.

    The Arizona Republic pulls no punches (none / 0) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 09:44:26 PM EST
    "Trump responds to criticism with the petulance of verbal spit wads"

    Great article at Vox... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 08:25:04 PM EST
    Clinton's debate performance spoke to every woman who has had to humor an incompetent man.

    It included this Facebook post by Maacah Davis, founder of Belladonna Magazine.

    I'm not even a Hillary Clinton fan but, as a woman, I am so angry for her. She's having to entertain, campaign against, and possibly lose to, a man who is nowhere close to being her equal. Like, wow. She is currently every woman who has ever been challenged by a guy who had no idea what he was talking about--and she can't just scream "shut up," she can't blow her top like she has every right to. She has to sit here and pretend that his opinions and feelings are just as valid as the facts her experience have taught her. This is literally what frustrates women DAILY, played out on the biggest national stage. This election has reinforced that a guy's ignorance will still be given the same weight as a woman's experience. He can have emotional outbursts that she would be crucified for having. As many problems as I have with her, I recognize that she deserved a more worthy opponent in this election.

    Clinton also ... (none / 0) (#26)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 02:36:47 PM EST
    got Trump to say "bigly".

    (Or "big league" if you're one of those who erroneously insists that's what he's saying.)

    But the debate was so jam-packed with Trump lunacy that I've seen no mention of it.

    and my new favorite "semi-exact"! (none / 0) (#49)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 08:13:40 PM EST

    "The Mexican peso rose to ... (none / 0) (#35)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 04:28:45 PM EST
    ... its biggest gain since July, increasing 1.7 percent against the dollar. The shift in the currency, which has been tied to Trump's electoral fortunes during the presidential race, was seen by experts as traders interpreting a dip in Trump's chances to win the election. 'The general impression is that Trump's chance is lower after this debate, and that is good for the Mexican peso, and not for haven currencies such as the yen,' Ulrich Leutchmann, head of currency strategy at Commerzbank AG in Frankfurt, told Bloomberg Markets."
    - "Hillary Clinton the Clear Winner? Not for Everyone." U.S. News & World Report (Sept. 27, 2016)

    Something (none / 0) (#39)
    by FlJoe on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 05:30:48 PM EST
    wicked this way comes, Trump will be a mile down the road from me in about 30 minutes.

    The rubes were lining up hours ago when I passed the airport. I have always had a dim view of the intelligence of the American people, but seeing it on the hoof is mildly amusing and depressing at the same time.

    Trump is just incredibly rude.. (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 06:00:00 PM EST
    really a slob..a vulgarian.

    How many times did he say "she says.." and "she said.." I think he even pointed a couple of times.

    I wish Thaddeus Stevens as played by Tommy Lee Jones could've come down into Hillary's body for a few minutes just to put that biped in his place in stentorian-Ciceronian tones..


    He's (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by FlJoe on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 06:22:39 PM EST
    got Giuliani with him, I sure hope the stench is gone by tomorrow morning.

    No such luck Joe.... (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 06:34:51 PM EST
    we've been Guiliani-free for over a decade in NYC and the faint stench of sulfur remains.

    I see why Trump let's him roll with him. Next to Rudy, even Trump can appear, dare I say...pleasant?


    You're right (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 07:50:05 PM EST
    about Giuliani. It reminds of the saying if you find friends that weigh more than you you'll always look thin.

    Online Polls (none / 0) (#53)
    by Rashomon66 on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 08:44:07 PM EST
    Online polls are incredibly inaccurate because they are not scientific in the least. However, Trump won almost every online poll. This may not be accurate but it is out there for many to see. If someone missed the debate the online polls may convince them that Trump won. It's annoying but seriously the right wing websites are crowing about Trump's win.

    The busy fingers of (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 09:00:28 PM EST
    the deplorables.

    It wouldn't surprise me to learn... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 09:15:57 PM EST
    some of them rock the vote from bed, weighing in at 400 lbs. In between hacks.

    I don't know if we can handle another debate of the merits of the surveymonkey poll.


    Another newspaper endorsement for Hillary (none / 0) (#59)
    by hilts on Tue Sep 27, 2016 at 09:46:28 PM EST
    "Since The Arizona Republic began publication in 1890, we have never endorsed a Democrat over a Republican for president. Never. This reflects a deep philosophical appreciation for conservative ideals and Republican principles.

    This year is different. The 2016 Republican candidate is not conservative and he is not qualified. That's why, for the first time in our history, The Arizona Republic will support a Democrat for president. The challenges the United States faces domestically and internationally demand a steady hand, a cool head and the ability to think carefully before acting. Clinton has the temperament and experience to be president. Donald Trump does not."