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Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 pm

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 01:37:36 PM EST
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Wow, just when you thought it was all over, MSNBC is reporting that a federal judge has granted a new hearing at 6:00 p.m. today based on the new neurologist's affidavit. I don't think there will be a different result. The AP reported earlier:

Bush's challenge to the disagnosis on Terri Schiavo's brain damage is based on the opinion of a neurologist working for the state who observed Schiavo at her bedside but did not conduct an examination of her.

The neurologist, William Cheshire of the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, is a bioethicist who is also an active member in Christian organizations, including two whose leaders have spoken out against the tube's removal.

Terri Schiavo is being described now by a doctor on MSNBC as being comatose, and possibly suffering from liver failure and kidney failure. There may be pain, but the hospice will be providing comfort and relief.

Update: The Schindler's spokesman says the family is pinning their hopes on Governor Jeb Bush. The parents will attend the hearing.

< Florida Judge Won't Intervene in Terri Schiavo Case | CU Issues Findings on Ward Churchill >

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    Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 pm | 35 comments (35 topical)
    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 01:47:07 PM EST
    I hope she can slip away peacefully as she wished before anybody can stop her again. It's terribly sad for her family and her husband. I think he has done right by her and I honor that. I'm sickened by the rantings of the right that she is being killed. Enough is enough. They need to let her go in peace and with love. Isn't that what any of us would want?

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 02:01:03 PM EST
    Is this the doc who parlayed an undergrad degree from Princeton into an admission to some barely accredited med school in West Virginia and then a bioethics degree from some "Christian" diploma mill into an associate professorship at same, or the "Nobel-nominated' one who thinks he can cure brain damage with aspirin? I get them confused. In either case, I'll betcha Jeb, Dubya or any other Bush would entrust his own body to this fine medical practitioner without a second thought!

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 02:01:04 PM EST
    from the Mayo Clinic Website running away as fast as they can Wednesday, March 23, 2005 Comment on Dr. William Cheshire's involvement with DCF Mayo Clinic supports physician volunteerism and service to society. Accordingly, many of our physicians volunteer their time as members of various worthwhile organizations. For example, some physicians provide professional services to underserved areas or in times of natural disasters, whereas others serve on the executive boards for local, state or national organizations. Dr. William Cheshire was asked by the Florida Department of Children and Families to share his expertise related to potentially vulnerable adults. As part of this commitment, he was asked to render his professional opinion for the state of Florida in the case of Terri Schiavo. Ms. Schiavo is not a Mayo Clinic patient. He observed the patient at her bedside and conducted an extensive review of her medical history but did not conduct an examination. Dr. Cheshire is not available for interviews. Please contact the Florida Department of Children and Families at 850-488-4855.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 02:07:52 PM EST
    Cheshire is the doctor who is transforming the world through Christ (the motto of the school where he got his medical ethics training )

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 02:21:59 PM EST
    Keep in mind the media attacks on how she is dying-- starving and parched. This is exactly how many people choose to die in America. This fight is not about whether Mrs. Schiavo has expressed her wishes about the right to die but whether ANYONE has a right to die. If she had left written instructions she would be dying in exactly the same way.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 02:26:28 PM EST
    Christine- "They need to let her go in peace and with love." I AGREE, but they should on THEIR TERMS- not one forced upon them by the court. This is a decision for the family, The Courts should not have intervened to begin with. There is dispute over Terri's wishes, Mr Schiavo's intentions and if he is acting in her best interest, what Terri's true condition is, aaaand how she got into that condition in the first place. She is being killed based on evidence any criminal court would toss out as hearsay. This isn't about Right to Die, Living Wills, DNR's, Abortion, God, etc. It is about whether or not we wish to give Judges the power to kill off those most dependent in society. The sheer amount of questions and issues with this case should have been enough to preclude this- for all intent and purpose, Mr Schiavo wants her dead and he has found a willing judge to be his accomplice.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 02:32:35 PM EST
    Gerry Owen no respect for the marriage of these two people no respect for the the testimony of more than one person to the fact she did not wish to remain this way no respect for the facts since you have bothered to edcuated yourself on this issue at all

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 02:56:30 PM EST
    "There is dispute...." There is no dispute. There was a dispute, and it was settled in the way such things are settled in a civilized country, through the courts -- how many courts now? Some people aren't grown up enough to accept that, but their tantrums shouldn't be given any attention. One question: can the court find the giver of this new "evidence" in contempt if it turns out that he is making a "guesst" diagnosis out of a sheer desire to cause mischief? It would seem to be VERY difficult to argue with those brain scans.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#9)
    by desertswine on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 03:00:12 PM EST
    She is being killed based on evidence... blah, blah, blah...
    She died 15 years ago and is only "alive" today thanks to the horrors of modern medicine.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 03:04:28 PM EST
    watch her die on Good friday or Easter and the religious right will go into an orgasmic rage. The whole ordeal is very sad but the efforts to keep her breathing is even sadder.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 03:05:46 PM EST
    Gracious, I hope they're not alleviating her pain with morphine or other opiates. She might become addicted.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#12)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 03:08:46 PM EST
    Gerry Owen - Racist. It's vital that we save a white woman in a coma but just as vital that we murder brown people that never harmed us. What brazen hypocrisy.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#13)
    by marty on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 03:25:27 PM EST
    Gerry Owen......please go away until you have gained at least a rudimentary knowledge of the FACTS of this case.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 04:02:14 PM EST
    Still waiting for evidence of the "power of prayer", as I see it god nor Benny Hinn have been able to make this woman rise and do calculus. Come on Benny, Pat, Jimmy, Billy show us that Michael is wrong and heal this woman. Omnipotent or impotent?

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#15)
    by soccerdad on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 04:19:36 PM EST
    "power of prayer" - sometimes the answer is No. The ministers mentioned are likely more interested in the "politics" of the situation. I'm sure others are more compassionate. The CT scans have shown "massive" brain shrinkage and the EEG has been "flat". As someone has said she died a long time ago. The container just keeps working becasue its basic functions are auomatic, the heart doesn't need a brain at all and breathing only requires the medulla and pons (brainstem). The politicization of this situation is one of the more disgusting episodes I have seen. The personal agony of all the family members involved has been perverted.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#16)
    by soccerdad on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 04:20:38 PM EST
    automatic not auomatic, sorry

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 04:49:22 PM EST
    The courts wouldn't have "intervened" had everyone just followed the rules. Her husband, who IS still married to her legally, is the one who is supposed to be able to make decisions for her, expressed her wishes, many, may doctors examined her, and this just shouldn't have turned into the circus that it did. Also, I've heard people blame 1) her parents and 2) her husband for her condition. Neither seems fair to me. Some links of interest: An interview with a Jesuit bioethicist Analysis of case by Obsidian Wings blog, including CAT scans) Fascinating interview on NPR with Schiavo's temporary guardian, a doctor who spent a lot of time observing her (and holding her hand) looking for signs of life.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:17:34 PM EST
    Prediction: As soon as Terri Schiavo dies (or, more accurately, finally finishes dying), you'll see editorial cartoons of her before the pearly gates with St. Peter saying, "What kept you?"

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:43:25 PM EST
    Che, are you a racist for not wanting to kill brown people but wanting this white woman to die? In other words, you are either a child chronologically or intellectually. By the way, pain medicines are not 100% and react differently with different people and different diseases. Learned this the hard way with my mother's hospice care.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#20)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:56:29 PM EST
    Boca, Who said I wanted her to die? You and you only. Shouldn't you be praying for a miracle or sometning?

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:49:45 PM EST
    She died 15 years ago and is only "alive" today thanks to the horrors of modern medicine. I was pondering somthing along these lines earlier today. How is it that we have all this modern medical technology to keep us alive for long periods of time and such little emphasis on feeding the spiritual and emotional parts? This isn't a specific slam on religion, but it seems to me that in a society that has such emphasis on morality and religion, there sure is a dearth of spirituality and compassion out there.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:07:30 PM EST
    Load - Can you provide us a link to a site detailing who, besides her husband, has said that she wanted to have "the plug pulled, please provide same. Frankly, I think that comment is the same as "nine judges..." when actually, only one was involved before the federal appeals. Yes, I'm saying your wrong. carla - It isn't the religious right who is trying to kill her. Or is that something you missed? et al - Could we have some links to your claims? It should be easy.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:22:46 PM EST
    Terri Schiavo is reported in court documents to have made comments to five different people about her feelings concerning being maintained on life support, including her mother, her husband, his brother, and his brother's wife. The judge found the testimony supporting the husband's position to be credible and so ruled. It's all available on the website Abstract Appeal, which is the best site for unvarnished facts about this case. Note: It's part of a ten-page PDF document, which may take a while to load. And before anyone goes off on the meaning of "life support", go see the document. That's addressed, too.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:40:41 PM EST
    Thanks to Tonyb for posting the link and I'm not wrong Jim ...you are. And further more the courts did consider a complaint lodged by the parents against the husband that he wasn't fit and those complaints were found to be groundless I suggest your read up on things before you post your opinion and continue to prove your self to be both factless and feckless And I suggest your read the Finn case in Virginia and why his wife in the same circumstances continued to fight for his right to die.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:59:10 PM EST
    Load - You imply that all 5 testifed in agreement. That is not the case, plus two indicate that her comments were made when she was yountg and not totally aware. BTW - The link started at page 2. Nice way to not show its history. Good try, load, but you've still been dumped.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 08:08:20 PM EST
    as usual Jim you are wrong Five people testified that was her will and she was over 21 when she maide the statements you constantly try to move the lines now she wasn't old enough...get a life and leave that family alone you obviously cannot read and if you poor old computer cam't download the doc not my fault you can always go to the main page..no one wa trying to hide anything from you we are trying to educate you.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 08:09:28 PM EST
    Isn't it odd that God has not called upon The Money Changer Evangelical Faith Healers to save the day? I also wonder why their followers aren't begging them to insert their God given powers into TERRY and CURE HER? Hmmm I suspect, like Professional wrestling both Faith Healers and their followers really don't want to know they are, FRAUDS. Why hasnt God answered their Prayers? If she has time to answere ball game prayers why doesn't she have time to do a little miracle for Terry? I think it's because She has answered My prayers for Terry instead!

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 10:38:10 PM EST
    PPJ, I think you may be confused by the file name "trialctorder02-00.pdf". The 02-00 means February of 2000, when the order was issued.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 10:54:40 PM EST
    You are missing the point- OUR COURTS SHOUD NOT DETERMINE THIS. It should have been left up to a consensus of the family. Spousal rights do not include offing your significant other. The Court system may well be the final arbitrator of many disputes, but I am incredulous in your collective discovery of Judical infallibility. Che- That was a rather hateful and pointless. Here is hoping you resolve whatever issues that cloud your head.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 11:39:30 PM EST
    You are missing the point- OUR COURTS SHOUD NOT DETERMINE THIS. It should have been left up to a consensus of the family.
    Okay, somebody pull Gerry Owen's feeding tube. His brain just died. When one's parents and spouse are fighting each other, it's a pretty clear indication that no consensus exists. Courts exist to straighten things out whenever people can't do it themselves. It is exactly the courts that should determine this matter. And they have.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:58:04 AM EST
    I think Tony's right Gerry. I'm sure we can agree that it is very tragic this ended up in the courts and that the family could not put aside there differences and come to a decision together for Terri. But they couldn't, so they went to the courts for help. Nobody likes it, but what alternative was there?

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#32)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 10:54:39 AM EST
    I'm crystal clear. You and the religious right are no different to me than islamic fundamentalists or orthodox jewish settlers. In the name of God? You would be funny if your kind weren't so dangerous.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 01:49:42 PM EST
    Tony, kdog- Okay, call me coldhearted, but it would seem that a consensus among the family would be inevitable without court interference. At some point either money would run out or the Parents might have come around- this spectacle was exacerbated by the court and the descisions made created more pain and inflamed emotions than it solved- granted, hurt feelings should not be a consideration of impact, but this was a situation that likely would have worked itself out. I can only wonder where the Schindler family would have been by this point if the court had stayed out of this and let Terri Schiavo be. If Michael Schiavo is convinced she is gone, what is the harm in letting her family take responsibility for her until they have given up hope on their terms? There isn't even a consensus of medical opinion on this! All this denial of visitation rights, medical tests, therapy and endless court battles has only hardened the opinions and rhetoric. There are people on both sides of the issue that are spinning this tragedy to meet their own niche arguments- it is pretty disgusting all around. Now you have one side wanting her to live/die to validate views on spousal rights, Living Wills, Abortion, God, Euthanasia and who knows what else- it would be a comedy if the whole underlying situation wasn't so sad. It is myopic to suggest that there isn't some serious questions surrounding the desires and motivations of those involved, there is no consensus of the medical field and incomplete testing on Terri. In a situation like this, the Court shouldn't be involved in killing a defenseless person. Now we are stuck with a questionable ruling that arguably sets a very bad precedence, which led to another arguably bad precedence being set by Congress in a failed attempt to get this reversed. The only good out of this is a lot more people are getting on the ball and getting living wills. My heart goes out to the two families.

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 05:48:18 PM EST
    kdog- "I'm sure we can agree that it is very tragic this ended up in the courts and that the family could not put aside there differences and come to a decision together for Terri. But they couldn't, so they went to the courts for help. Nobody likes it, but what alternative was there?" I wrote my whole long speil and didn't adequately address your point- I think Judge Greer should have left her feeding tube alone, 9 years ago, plain and simple. The court should find in favor of life as long as there is no consensus, no clear directive from the person in question, and no medical consensus. There aresome issues time will sort out if left alone. Her parents may never come around, but they are not going to live forever, and the money for her care would not have lasted forever. The Shindler family would likely have been forced to make some hard decisions at some point regarding Terri. Now their are enough interested individuals willing to contribute to her care after all this publicity. Who is harmed by letting her family continue to care for her? Who is harmed by letting her die? More importantly, do we want the state making these family decisions when the state plays no role in her care?

    Re: Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 05:49:54 PM EST
    Okay, call me coldhearted
    I don't call you coldhearted, Gerry. I think you're just incredibly naive to think that consensus will arise in a family feud if we just wait long enough (and keep the courts out of it). The Schindlers are not about to kiss and make up with their son-in-law, whom they now smear with vile allegations, and Michael Schiavo will never have anything further to do with his in-laws. Without court decisions, this would have festered even longer. And it's too long as it is.

    Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6 pm | 35 comments (35 topical)