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U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:16:19 PM EST
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U.S. paratrooper Jeremy Hinzman has been denied asylum in Canada.

An immigration board ruled that Jeremy Hinzman had not convinced its members he would face persecution or cruel and unusual punishment if returned to the United States.

Seven other American military personnel have applied for refugee status, and Hinzman's lawyer estimated dozens of others are in hiding in Canada waiting to see how the government ruled.

Background on Hinzman's case is here.

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    U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada | 22 comments (22 topical)
    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:01:13 PM EST
    Which part of "binding contract" was unclear to TL?

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#2)
    by Sailor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:10:55 PM EST
    what part of refusing to participate in war crimes is unclear to you?

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:40:57 PM EST
    I see the start of the civil war, in both james Robertson and sailor's words. Canada has its internation right and laws and wants nothing to do with this case. By the way he will face many years in prison and if that is not cruel and unusual i just don't know what is. welcome home Hinzman now get into the cell, remember son you enlisted right?..sad for the fool, but it is an empire not a nation with rules or laws.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#4)
    by cp on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 08:59:24 PM EST
    without opining on the legitimacy of the current "conflict overseas", i have to admit i've a difficult time sympathizing with those volunteer members of the military, who suddenly develop a conscience, after being deployed to a combat zone. this is, after all, the job description of every member of every branch of the military. remember, they are all volunteers, no draftees in the bunch of them. what they thought they were getting into is totally irrelevant; they willingly signed a contract, agreeing to serve where, when and how sent, and to obey all lawful orders from their superiors. if they believe they've been given an unlawful order, they have recourse under the UCMJ. further, they have the option of applying for consciencious objector status. both these options require that they remain in their unit, not go awol. it really isn't part of their job description to decide when they will go on deployment, or which wars they will fight, absent the exceptions noted above. no one should draw any inferrence, with respect to my feelings about the action in iraq, from the above, i'm merely stating facts.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 10:59:01 PM EST
    Canadian common sense actually orrode their reflexive need to give America the finger? Hope Hitzman enjoys making big rocks into little ones for a few years.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 02:43:22 AM EST
    cp, I would have to cast serious doubts on your assertion that all military personnel have joined on a voluntary basis. For many, there’s more complicated societal mechanisms at work re: the decision to represent the US of A in such a way. As for the rest, I agree.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#7)
    by Andreas on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 02:44:30 AM EST
    Lawyer Jeffry House, who is representing a number of the deserters with cases pending before the refugee board, including Jeremy Hinzman, spoke with WSWS reporter Lee Parsons in Toronto at the end of January.
    "It cannot be irrelevant to a soldier that a war is legal or illegal. That just can’t be. It can’t be the case that a war is illegal and that it’s just to imprison someone who refuses to fight. If illegal means anything it means you can’t be prosecuted for refusing to participate. So I think that in the long run it’s something that we will win.
    "I certainly use the Nuremberg principles in my argument. The government response is that, “well those were high people.” You couldn’t prosecute an individual German soldier for crossing the border into Czechoslovakia, even though it was an illegal aggression. And my position is, they might choose not to prosecute such a soldier, but they ought to protect any such soldier who says “no I’m not going to”. I mean (if somebody had) when Poland was invaded in 1939, if some German soldier had gotten to England and said, “I refuse to participate in the invasion of Poland” I would hope our response would not be “I’m going to send you back to jail.”
    Lawyer for US deserters speaks with WSWS It cannot be irrelevant to a soldier that a war is legal or illegal By Lee Parsons, 10 February 2005 US deserter’s refugee claim Canadian government blocks consideration of legality of Iraq war By Keith Jones, 10 February 2005

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 03:28:42 AM EST
    Canadian common sense actually overrode their reflexive need to give America the finger? Hate to disappoint you, but -- nah. This is what bureaucracies are for. This case will never end, not until a long time after all concerned are pushing up daisies. Any rejection more subtle than an upraised finger is too subtle for Americans to understand. Appeal. Reappeal. Appeal. Inquiry. Ministeral permits. Questions in the House of Commons. It will go on forever, and bless its stained soul, the good old US of A has the attention span of a gnat.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#9)
    by cp on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 04:24:40 AM EST
    blondebutbright, did the draft start again, and no one told me? your comment makes no sense whatever. if, as i suspect, you're referring to those from poor backgrounds, who join out of a desire to lift themselves from the ranks of the poverty stricken, you may have some point, but not much. the same could be said of someone who takes a menial job at mcdonald's, or wal-mart. the bottom line is this: they weren't drafted, or otherwise legally forced to join up. they had other, perhaps equally unpleasant, options available to them, they made a conscious decision. they reaped the benefits of that decision during peacetime, now they must honorably bear the obligation that goes along with it. this same issue arose during desert storm, an event i also had a problem with. but, i had a bigger problem with those who suddenly decided that wasn't what they signed up for; it is, and always has been.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 05:56:57 AM EST
    I for one wish him luck. I hear you guys, he did volunteer, but when he volunteered, could he (or any of us) have imagined invading and occupying a country over fictitous weapons?

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 05:58:09 AM EST
    The Bush admin. changed the rules, so this soldier changed his mind. Seems fair to me.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 06:30:16 AM EST
    kdog, Was there anything in the agreement this soldier signed that said he would have the option to drop out if he disapproved of the mission? Bush didn't change the rules; the rules are exactly what the were when he signed up. You join the military, you place yourself under the command of the military and do what they tell you to do. If you don't want to fight in foreign wars, don't join.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 06:44:20 AM EST
    sagesource It will go on forever, and bless its stained soul, the good old US of A has the attention span of a gnat. That may be true, but the military doesn't, have you forgotten the recent case of the deserter that fled to N Korea? KDOG ...could he (or any of us) have imagined invading and occupying a country over fictitous weapons? Fictitous? 5 tons of yellow cake is fictitous? OK, I guess in your world, not in mine. And of course you "overlook" 25g payments to Palestinian bombers, repeated and flagrant violations of the 1991 ceasefire accord, along with the other 20 or so reasons given in the autorization approved by Congress. Funny how many of the anti-war types forget that little fact, or is it sad? The Bush admin. changed the rules, so this soldier changed his mind. Seems fair to me. And what "rules" would those be?

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 07:38:42 AM EST
    The only 5 tons of yellowcake Hussein could get his mitts on was Angel's Food.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 07:46:17 AM EST
    I have to say that I do agree with CP. As my husband a soldier said to me I will say to all of you... Hind sight is 20/20. If all of the soldiers (including my husband) knew that this War was going to happen, alot of them would probably have never joined or re-enlisted.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 07:58:53 AM EST
    5 tons of cake...where is it? your imagination? I know he doessn't have a "legal" leg to stand on, but I'm rooting for him. The "rules" being we don't attack a country w/o just cause.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:44:31 AM EST
    To Kdog.... I'm suprised to hear you say that! Ok so you don't agree with the fact that we invaded Iraq, but how can you possibly say that you are rooting for a man that was as evil as Samaam?

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:54:51 AM EST
    No no no MWF...I'm rooting for this soldier. I got no love for Saddam. I can see how I wasn't clear, my bad.

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:56:19 AM EST
    Issues of morality are trumped by the issue of physical survival, at least in the reality of the person stepping on the plane heading to the hell of this war. Good for Jeremy he can still make a decision concering his own body. It seems anyone in the military these days not brainwashed would also be a deserter, and even if half the military deserted, would the fatherland (oops, homeland) be any less secure?

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 09:16:56 AM EST
    Good point Jesus why should people die for bush and mexico? why should people die to keep the mexican Oligarchies in big money from drugs and murder? this is not a nation but wealthy boys doing business for the the real world elite\oligarchies who care nothing about the little guy. why bacause most guys and girls need money and the system tells the guys that if you help you! but in the end it will only do you! the system tells the little guy we will let you have school money, and you little people can eat, hey fight the system before it removes you from earth. if you think that is nuts just look at what happen with Fox and Bush business. the guy will be killed by some nut case on behalf of the government inside the political prison system within 6 months, but remember that is the system he said he would die for right?

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 09:50:06 AM EST
    To Kdog.... THANK YOU! I knew you had more sense than that! I can't say that I agree though with rooting for the soldier. I wish these soldiers would see the big picture before they signed on the dotted line. Yes, I do believe that these younger men and women are steered in the totally wrong direction when they go into the recruiter office. As far as the older soldiers who have been serving for a while.... they know the drill so they should just go and do the duty that they signed up for!

    Re: U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 07:41:23 PM EST
    The decision to reject Jeremy Hinzman's appeal for asylum in Canada has nothing whatsoever to do with the merits of his claim that the U.S. is fighting an immoral war of occupation in Iraq. His appeal was denied because the government of Canada doesn't want to disturb its role in the global economy, which means playing a subservient role to the big global daddy. By the way, Nuremberg is the test of such cases. A soldier may at any time refuse an order that he/she feels is against fundamental human rights, and that decision can be made at any time during service. That said, it doesn't mean that there won't be consequences for such a decision based on conscience, only that the action may be just. That's how the carnage at My Lai was finally stopped. How different is an illegal and immoral war that was launched preemtively against a weak military power when there were no WMDs? How can the argument of a contract be brought in this case when civilian causualities mount and ongoing violations of human rights such as at Abu Grahib continue? Also, factor in anti-personnel weapons and weapons such as Napalm, and it's fairly easy to see how Canada ougtht to automatically grant asylum to Hinzman and others like him. Hinzman ought not to be on "trial." Bush ought to be as a major war criminal!

    U.S. Paratrooper Denied Asylum in Canada | 22 comments (22 topical)