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Tuesday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 10:37:05 AM EST
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I've got stuff to do, some MSNBC and then the jail, so here's a place for you to talk.

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    Tuesday Open Thread | 45 comments (45 topical)
    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 10:57:03 AM EST
    wha're you doin' jail for this time? assaulting batteries? swimming upstream without a paddle? joywriting? yikes. my funny bone is broken today. maybe it's a stress fracture. have a good one, j.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 11:25:52 AM EST
    which is worse, msnbc or jail? hey, is it me, or is anyone else having trouble getting to the daily kos today?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by nolo on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 11:35:01 AM EST
    It's not just you.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by pigwiggle on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 11:56:37 AM EST
    Maybe Dean forgot to pay the ISP bill this month.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:08:32 PM EST
    Maybe Dean forgot to pay the ISP bill this month.
    he must have wired transfered the payment, there up and accessable.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:15:21 PM EST
    hey, is it me, or is anyone else having trouble getting to the daily kos today?
    I can get it. Maybe you're just paranoid. It's a slow day over at Kos anyway, you're not missing much.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Peaches on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:23:30 PM EST
    I am going to do all of the right wingers a favor and tell them why tax-payers should pay to keep people like Ward Churchhill in the Universities. 1. It is higher education. The socialization purpoose is over after k-12 secondary education. When individuals enter univesities they are adults. This is where the individualization purpose for higher education takes over (imo it should happen much earlier). The universities need individuals with dissident views for this process to work. Society needs this function of univeristies to allow for changes and challenges of the status quo. Indiviudals who are exposed to alternative views from those recieved during secondary education are forced to develop a thought process that questions commanly held views leading to one of two results (1) adoption of contrarian views (2) the development the ability to defend status quo views using clear and critical thinking. Most of us who value the status quo also value critical thinking --something that is lacking in most right winger arguments. 2. The University is the best place for individuals with dissident views because this is the place where they are most likely to encounter others with critical thinking abilities to challenge their viewpoints. Young college republicans did not happen by accident, although the recent trend to remove professors instead of refute them with clear argument is evidence of influence from outside the university. There was a time when it was determined beneficial to bring individuals with dissedent views to the university in order to get their views off the streets and workroom floors. The idea being that is better to offer these guys and gals comfy university position where their credibility will suffer by the ones they are supposedly advocates for. However, ther are now people in power who do not understand power dynamics. They believe that no one can possibly oppose them. They rule under a false sense (or maybe not false) of security that they can harness their power and hang onto it indefinately. Thus, they are willing to throw the churchhills back to the reservations and the streets where their views will be more eagerly accected without opposition and their status will rise to even greater hieghts in the communities of the oppressed. People in power used to fear this, so they were willing to suffer some criticism at the hands of university professors. Now, we are ruled by a much more arrogant power who no longer worry about intellectual dissidents combining power with the oppressed. We'll see what happens.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by pigwiggle on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:48:29 PM EST
    Peaches- We should force folks spend money on crap that makes their skin crawl; under the full violence and consequence of the state. Why? We know what’s best; we are here to take care of them, we’ll keep them safe and ignorant, protect them from choice.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:01:12 PM EST
    The Big Bush Distraction is Social Security reform -he had given his friends in the media something to do while his pals ram through a rightwing agenda including drilling in the Alaska wilderness why isn't Bush talking about conservation instead of drilling why isn't he talking about predatoru lenders and big bank malfeasance instead of attacking gay marriage

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    Muslims in a Non Muslim country: http://www.fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0001009_1.htm

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:11:42 PM EST
    Peaches, I can think of a thousand better examples than Ward Churchill of people who actually put some rational thought and scholarship into their contrarian viewpoints. Churchill is to scholarship what Tom DeLay is to ethics. I simply can't support the idea that my tuition and taxes should pay an idiot six figures so that I can learn how not to be an idiot. Now back to studying for midterms...

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by roy on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:11:58 PM EST
    why isn't Bush talking about conservation instead of drilling why isn't he talking about predatoru lenders and big bank malfeasance instead of attacking gay marriage
    He's doing what he was hired to do. If the American people wanted a president to focus on conservation, predatory lending, and bank malfeasance, we would have elected a Democrat or a Green.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:17:48 PM EST
    I am going to do all of the right wingers a favor and tell them why tax-payers should pay to keep people like Ward Churchhill in the Universities. Peaches- do you reaally think those who are opposed to continuing to pay this guy's salary are limited to "right wingers"?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:22:49 PM EST
    Alarmed by lawless judges in San Francisco and Boston attacking your marriage? Concerned for the future of the family? Have no fear! Now there's Gay-Away, from Ronco! FADE IN to tastefully appointed sitting room. MOTHER and DAUGHTER, dressed prep, sit on a retro Laura Ashley couch. CUE soft ochestral music. CUE soft focus. DAUGHTER [uncomfortably]: Mom ... do you ever feel ... you know ... not so sacred? MOTHER [reassuringly, placing hand on daughter's knee]: Oh, of course, Muffy. Things just aren't the SAME anymore now that godless liberal judges have changed the institutions that make our society great. DAUGHTER: Oh, Mom, that's just what I mean? How can Chip and I have a sacred and intimate moment when I know that two stinking homosexuals are allowed to formalize their lifelong commitment as if it were as good as mine? MOTHER: I feel the same way with your father, dear. The first Saturday night of the quarter just can't be the same when I know that the legal system won't let the proper authorities round up the deviates. [Leans in closer.] But there's something new that can take that feeling away! [Pulls brightly-colored aeresol can from under teak coffee table] New Gay-Away! DAUGHTER: [Looks at table, tilts head, puts finger to chin] Gay-Away? MOTHER: Yes, dear! Gay-Away helps preserve your sacred relationship from assaults by the gay agenda! [CUT to animated diagram for rest of MOTHER's speech: icon of couple holding hands is attacked by vicious-looking pink triangles, gold Stars of David, and little red copies of the Bill of Rights; suddenly HAND appears with GAY-AWAY can and sprays the couple to the sound of holy chorus. The icon of the couple is now protected by a shining force-field; the attacking icons dissolve impotently against the shield.] MOTHER: Nine out of ten doctors and talk-radio personalities agree that GAY-AWAY protects your sacred relationship from 99.9% of the corruption threatened by homosexuals, Jews, and communist ACLU lawyers! [DIAGRAM dissolves back to scene of mother and daughter] DAUGHTER [happily]: Oh, Mom! It sounds like GAY-AWAY is just what Chip and I need! MOTHER [holding up can to the camera]: And now GayAway comes with new NegroGuard! Are you upset that the permissive laws of our sick society permit Betty Sue down the block to marry Lamont, a Negro? GayAway with NegroGuard can take you away from all that and help you remember a time when everyone knew their place -- in marriage or out of it! [MOTHER smiles brilliantly] DAUGHTER [laughing happily]: Oh Mom! I can always count on you! [Takes can] MOTHER: To the sacredness of your marriage, dear! DAUGHTER: No, Mom, to the sacredness of OUR marriages! [They laugh. DAUGHTER lifts the can and prepares to spray the room with it] MOTHER: No, you have to huff it. FADE OUT

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:36:55 PM EST
    I know I'm not the only one not getting DKos today - why does it seem to be down for some and not for others?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by roy on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:43:17 PM EST
    I know I'm not the only one not getting DKos today - why does it seem to be down for some and not for others?
    That usually means a DNS problem, since it takes a while for DNS changes to percolate through the various servers. Dailykos.com had some sort of registration change this morning, so maybe that's it. (I can't reach them now either)

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by roy on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:46:11 PM EST
    ...ignore my statement about a change this morning, I misread something.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:48:52 PM EST
    Thanks MB. Some of us consider being called right-wingers to be an insult, and yet we still think Ward Churchill is a moron. Bush supporters counter the no-WMD argument with "what about Saddam's rape rooms?" Well I say what about CU's rape rooms? Ward Churchill is but a boil on the ass of CU's problems. Churchill defenders are yell loudly about the academic freedom of a fraud and what an injustice it would be to get rid of him. What about the injustice of taxpayer-funded rape, prostitution, binge drinking, preaching the gospel from the pulpit of the football program, and misogyny? What do they think those things do to academic freedom? Here's what: My school is about to gain a new president* who was hand-picked by the Republican governor, bypassing the entire review process. Metro's only crime is guilt by association with CU. So now we'll probably get to reap the benefits of ABOR (affirmative action for Republicans) because the upper echelon of higher education in Colorado can't maintain basic standards of ethics and decency. How's that for academic freedom? * I know little about Dr. Jordan, other than he has a close association with Republican congressman Bob Beauprez. He may turn out to be fine--I just have serious doubts considering how he's getting the job.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:52:20 PM EST
    Ken: ROFL! Now, seriously, I have so much studying to do for tomorrow that I have to shut my internet connection down to get rid of the easy distraction. Later y'all.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:55:13 PM EST
    Ditto's gone, let's talk about him!

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by roy on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 02:10:06 PM EST
    Ditto's gone, let's talk about him!
    He practices unfair blogging, by using a real name that sounds like a fake name.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 02:26:15 PM EST
    ken did you make that up on the fly or you got that stuff canned. that's some funny schit, i don't care who you are, get'er done!

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 02:52:49 PM EST
    I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire I disagree...I don't censor.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 02:54:41 PM EST
    "I heard Ken invented "bore-away" and promptly disappeared. ; )" That's a half-truth. It was nerd-away.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 03:35:50 PM EST
    Peaches - Opposing opinions are great. But shouldn't the information offerred be factual and not totally insulting? The latter is needed to get someone's attention and hold it. The former is to get them to consider your comments. Michael Ditto - It seems like the New York Times is moving towards admitting that Saddam had the means for producing WMD's: " In the weeks after Baghdad fell in April 2003, looters systematically dismantled and removed tons of machinery from Saddam Hussein's most important weapons installations, including some with high-precision equipment capable of making parts for nuclear arms, a senior Iraqi official said this week in the government's first extensive comments on the looting." Link that article with the Kay Report and this: "Nearly two tons of low-enriched uranium has been removed from an Iraqi nuclear facility in a secret operation conducted by the U.S. Energy Department. The quantity of nuclear material, stored at the al-Tuwaitha research complex southeast of Baghdad, was probably enough to give Saddam Hussein the capacity to produce at least one atomic bomb, according to a physicist with the Federation of American Scientists quoted by the Associated Press." Link Then maybe we can start to see why we should have invaded. BTW - Given the success of CU's President picking process in the past, I don't think anything the Gov can do will come out anyway but better. Perhaps this guy will pay attention when coeds scream about rape. what a load - Conservation is fine, but actually has very little short term effect, unless what you mean is serious "less use." Even there, most folks are pretty well locked into to their current life style. Too many cities do not have viable mass transit systems. And many cities that do, connect only the burb to downtown, when the new traffic patterns is burb to burb. So, besides saying using less is good, which we all know, what would you do? More taxes?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 03:52:11 PM EST
    Thank you, Ken. I haven't exhaled beer through my nostrils in quite awhile.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 04:29:56 PM EST
    anyone wanna laugh. the trailer for the new "bad news bears" remake is fairly encouraging. although NOTHING will top walter matthau. and a jackie earl haley comes along once in a lifetime. i know, i know, taum o'neil too. http://www.badnewsbearsmovie.com/index.php?section=trailer

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 04:49:42 PM EST
    still can't get kos, so i guess i'll be hanging out here more. and, from the makers of "gay-away," try new "fag-out!"

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by john horse on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 04:54:52 PM EST
    According to Juan Cole, Ukraine and Poland are beginning their withdrawal from Iraq. They join Spain, Norway, Thailand, Holland, and several Latin American countries in pulling out of the coaliton of the "willing." Only UK and Italy have any significant combant troops in Iraq. I guess he didn't hear CBS news today. Italy has just announced that they are pulling out.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by roy on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 05:23:04 PM EST
    I guess he didn't hear CBS news today. Italy has just announced that they are pulling out.
    Italy isn't pulling out until September.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 05:40:19 PM EST
    To PW, continued from previous Monday Open Thread: (and by diverse I assume they are talking about US minorities by nationality). By diverse, I assume they mean to sample newspapers from a field of multiple owners to ensure that any one media company isn't over represented. A random exclusion of a handful of conservative (by your estimate) newspapers is miles short of demonstrating a bias. Further, exclusion of the WSJ will not change the results for local print, local, cable, and network. If by "random exclusion" you include every single newspaper printed in multiple states, I'd laugh. Regional biases are completely ignored. This is a gerrymandered, economically over/under represented democracy; political bias amongst journalists seeking to sell adds on a Corporate market isn't homogeneous across a fully integrated culture, amongst an equal number of people; therefore regional subcultures (i.e. Southern Conservatives) are completely ignored by such a study despite their heavily disproportionate impact on the national dialogue. Its fine for Clear Channel, for example, to say that the media industry isn't over consolidated and then cite some ludicrous national statistic (as they do on their website). But if they own 90% of the radio market in a city like Tampa that makes the difference come Federal/State election time, the national statistic is quite obviously irrelevant. They may have only 30% (or whatever) nationally, but they have complete domination in some of the markets they "compete" in. The FCC not only tolerates it, they have encouraged/provided incentive for it through legislation. Why does it matter who is elected? Because if the "newsmakers" are pursuing a Conservative agenda, the debate is defined/framed under constraints. If the U.N. scorns a Neocon "Clean Air Act", it is technically o.k. to write a headline that says, "U.N. opposed to Clean Air Act". The headline is both accurate and inaccurate. Face it, the media is staffed with disproportionately liberal folks (this we know) and it influences their reporting. You don't have enough data to prove this (and never will). Just as I don't have access to enough data to disprove it (or prove the opposite). You know why? Because a non-biased study has yet to be created and I don't know of anyone motivated enough to spend the money to complete one (definitely not going to come from corporate america - i.e. the Nielsen group)! I understand it isn’t quite as liberal as you would like, but you are unrepresentative of the market. I'll only concede that I am unrepresentative of the market because I (1) have more information and (2) have spent more time forming an opinion of American socio-economic-political circumstance. The "market" is non-ideological, as "presented" in many a rudimentary study showing a "Centrist" attitude towards the two major American political parties. The 60% voter turnout of the 60% of registered American voters over-representative of the middle and upper classes, to be blunt, really don't seem to have much of an opinion about anything not artificially interjected into the "national discourse". Big surprise, the comfortable prefer the status quo. By artificial, I refer to the 50,000 or so "journalists" who decide what America should/will care about. (I.e. steroids in baseball) The biases in the media are both overt and passive. Lies of ommission are still lies. Over emphasis of context to the point of dilution of the current in order to detract from an opponent (and avoid claims of bias) is just as bad as intentionally biased propaganda. Are you suggesting that your arguments previous to this somehow addressed their sampling method? Are you suggesting that the sampling in this study is adequate to draw the conclusion that the media covered the Iraq War even handedly? What exactly is even handed, PW? I will give you that the news media does seem to be moving further and faster to the right. Apparently you don't believe that the coverage was even handed, if you believe the statement above. So what exactly are you trying to say by posting this study here? Besides, you'll convince me that the University of Alabama & Columbia are capable of producing an unbiased sample about the same time as you'll convince Mitch McConnell that religion breeds intolerance of entire cultures.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 05:47:12 PM EST
    I added some comments in the most recent Ward Churchill thread (in civil liberties category.) For those who have been off the planet for the last month or so, Amy Goodman provides a useful summary of the initial "controversy" in her Feb. 18th program on Democracy NOW! in which she interviews Ward Churchill by phone in Boulder.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 06:40:41 PM EST
    The sound you all hear is Tampa's Ego shattering as she realizes Kerry lost to Bush despite a 3:1 advantage in positive spin (36% to 12%) and 1:1.5 advantage (20% to 30%) in negative spin from the MSM. What Liberal Media?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 08:16:35 PM EST
    Tampa, I know this is an open thread, but please keep your comments to a reasonable length. Bandwidth is expensive, and many readers don't want to scroll through something so long to get to the next commenter or post their own thoughts. Overly long comments are a thread-killer.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 10:00:08 PM EST
    Tampa, I could read your stuff all day. Screw 'em. Keep typing. Boquisucio, Re: Last thread If I used a family testimonial to make a political point with the right how far do you think it would go? Want some union stories? Some anti war demo stories? Would it convince you about the need for organized labor? Or pulling the troops? Please. I'm not saying your relative might have exagerated the story over forty years, or that he may have a chip on his shoulder about losing out in the takeover. But I'm quite sure that exactly those types of allegations would be leveled at me in a similar situation by your peers at this site. Let's try to keep the discourse as objective as possible.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 10:05:13 PM EST
    Bos, I meant priest, not relative.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 16, 2005 at 02:28:06 AM EST
    PPJ Am I the only one sick of hearing about the Kay Report ? Not sure what point you are trying to make by constantly posting it as some kind of personal Mantra. Flash Traffic For PPJ - Eyes only (but you might want to engage brain). Refuted by David Kay himself at linked text = Linked text Quotes "..We are still very much in the collection and analysis mode, still seeking the information and evidence that will allow us to confidently draw comprehensive conclusions to the actual objectives, scope, and dimensions of Iraq's WMD activities at the time of Operation Iraqi Freedom .." i.e. So still guessing as of October 2003, after the war justified by WMD's ''.. our understanding of the status of Iraq's WMD program was always bounded by large uncertainties and had to be heavily caveated. .." i.e. ditto That’s just a couple, it's riddled with the same "We pretty much just guessed" CYA statements. ""..We have not yet found stocks of weapons .." And still have not, none to find. Indeed the more you read the worse it gets. Finding stuff like P.C's of mass destruction, documentation on Bio and Nuke you can download off the web ? Oppenheimer and the Manhattan Project designed their bombs with blackboards and chalk. Guess that makes your average grade school a source of potential Armageddon. Full critique at linked text = Linked text Still got to admire your style dude. Drop a decoy in the pond, wait for the ducks to line up then take a shot at them, cute. I can just picture you in the front line at Kent State, carving notches on your stock.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 16, 2005 at 02:31:26 AM EST
    Darn, missed the URL's http://slate.msn.com/id/2094415/ And http://slate.msn.com/id/2089471/

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by john horse on Wed Mar 16, 2005 at 04:25:28 AM EST
    roy, Italy is leaving Iraq. That only leaves the UK as the only country in the "coalition of the willing" to remain. Regarding the UK, I thought this quote from Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi interesting "I've spoken about it with Tony Blair, and it's the public opinion of our countries that expects this decision,...We have to build an exit strategy." He seems to be suggesting that the UK may be pulling out next.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by john horse on Wed Mar 16, 2005 at 04:28:36 AM EST
    What I meant to say in the last post is that the UK will be the only other country with a significant military presense left in Iraq. There are countries that sent a token deployment to Iraq, such as Mongolia.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 16, 2005 at 06:35:45 AM EST
    He practices unfair blogging, by using a real name that sounds like a fake name.
    Maybe I should come up with a nom de plume... Rhett Mannon? Jed Cannon? CO-8InchesCutWillTravelForOnly200Bucks?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by pigwiggle on Wed Mar 16, 2005 at 07:23:34 AM EST
    TS- “By diversethey mean ... multiple owners” This is much more reasonable. It’s sad my gut reaction was to assume diversity by nationality; well, these are the times… “If by "random exclusion" you include every single newspaper printed in multiple states, I'd laugh. Regional biases are completely ignored.” They first sorted by circulation; this appropriately represents the size of a given audience. Second, they randomly selected papers from geographically distinct regions. Sorting of the second kind will also represent an audience size bias. So, will it capture small regional differences? Likely no, even if the sample is small odds are the papers selected will be representative of the prevalent ideology within that region. There is the risk that a selected paper is from the minority view and will skew the statistics accordingly. Is this what you are claiming happened? I don’t see how you can say this without having a more thorough examination that these folks. So, you say; media is consolidated within a conservative interest, the media has a unique ability to sway public opinion, and consequently this conservative interest has an unchecked ability to sway elections. I disagree, consolidated or not, media has the simple goal of selling maximum product. Are folks really so pliable and ignorant? No, the news is indicative of the market, it does not dictating the market. “You don't have enough data to prove this (and never will).” [With regard to the media being staffed disproportionately with liberal folks] You are right; it is my estimation, and only of national journalists. “The biases in the media are both overt and passive. Lies of ommission are still lies.” There are lies of omission and then simply biases of omission. Are facts excluded from a single story or is a story simply not covered. It helps to get your news from several places. “Are you suggesting that the sampling in this study is adequate to draw the conclusion that the media covered the Iraq War even handedly? What exactly is even handed, PW?” I don’t know if the sampling is adequate. Evenhanded; if the volume of negative press was indicative of negative events (both magnitude and quantity), and likewise the volume of positive press was representative of positive events. From my original post; “reporting on the Iraq war was as likely negative as positive.” If the situation in Iraq is dire we can’t call the coverage evenhanded.

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 16, 2005 at 11:27:38 AM EST
    john horse - Not true, There´s a significant number of nationalities still willing to fight in dodge for the coalition.. that is, for a price. Drop a decoy in the pond - lol! funniest thing I have read in a long time, thanks for the links and entertainment, Snodgrass. Elusive Iraqi WMD.. riight! You also noticed the banging on the war drums in the background? Btw if there were any weapons left the whereabouts, I´m sure, it would not go unnoticed. To all of us frequent TL visitors; Jim is a.k.a. "The hawk on offense". And personally, I´m still waiting for PPJ to reveal his grand plan for invading Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia (I´m not going to hold my breath though).

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by glanton on Wed Mar 16, 2005 at 02:25:13 PM EST
    Just when you thought Dubya couldn't possibly be any more of a fascist than he has already proven himself to be, he goes and recommends Wolfowitz to run the World Bank. Really, how does the man (and I use this term loosely) sleep at night?

    Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 16, 2005 at 05:18:33 PM EST
    Thanks Che. Sorry, TL.

    Tuesday Open Thread | 45 comments (45 topical)