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Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas

by TChris

The Attorney General of Kansas, Phill Kline, is acting as an anti-abortion activist rather than the state's chief law enforcement officer. (TalkLeft background here.) And he's willing to undermine the Constitution and the privacy rights of patients to get what he wants.

What he wants: records of abortions performed on more than 90 patients in two Kansas clinics. Kline claims the records may reveal evidence of a crime, although the nature of his investigation is elusive. He couches the effort in appealing terms: a search for evidence of child molestation. The records, he claims, may show that girls too young to give legal consent to sex were victimized by older men. But the records are more likely to show that the underage girls themselves committed crimes by having sex with underage boys. And the physician-patient privilege that Kline wants to thwart is designed to encourage patients to share just that kind of personal information with doctors, free from fear that a crusading prosecutor will obtain and use that information against the patient.

That Kline isn't out to protect kids is clear from two facts.

First, none of the kids whose records he wants has reported being sexually abused. Second, not all of the records involve abortions performed on minors.

Kline explains the attempt to review records of abortions on adult women by shifting the focus of his inquiry: he wants to review those records to determine whether doctors are performing late-term abortions that state law prohibits. But Kline has no reason to believe that any abortion violated the law. His desire to see the records is nothing but a fishing expedition undertaken with the hope that he'll find evidence that will allow him to hook an abortion provider.

Kline's problem: the heart of the Fourth Amendment is its prohibition against general warrants. The police can't poke into private information with nothing more than a hope that they might find evidence of wrongdoing. That's why the Constitution requires probable cause to justify a search, and Kline clearly lacks probable cause to believe that any of the 90-plus abortions were illegal.

But that doesn't trouble Kline. Motivated by ideology rather than a respect for the law, Kline thinks that any patient's health care records are fair game. If he wins this battle, others will be encouraged to follow suit. Who knows? Your private medical records may be the next to be caught up in the fisherman's net.

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    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 09:55:49 AM EST
    There is another proof that he is not protecting kids but is on an anti-abortion campaign. Why is he not requesting the records of minors who have given birth? Why not check the maternity wards? That's where most under-age girls who have gotten pregnant by older men end up. When a 12- or 13 - year old child has given birth, a crime has obviosuly been committed under Oklahoma law. But he doesn't want to end statutory rape or protect our kids, he wants to harass and criminalize women who have abortions. And anyone associated with them.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#2)
    by Kitt on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 11:05:04 AM EST
    And why is this 'campaign' for medical records okay, but Rush's medical records were sacrosanct? Inconsistent and full of bulls*t.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#3)
    by cp on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 11:44:42 AM EST
    to take vlad t's point one step further, the records of clinics who provide contraceptives to minors should, under his theory, reasonably be subjected to the same request. minor girls having sex, regardless of impregnation, is still statutory rape.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#4)
    by wishful on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 12:15:48 PM EST
    How hard is President "I am spreading democracy" Bush coming down on this clear violation of democratic principles and our own Constitution? I can't wait to hear how Gonzales plans to put an immediate stop to this in the name of all that is democratic.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 12:38:45 PM EST
    Oh this is wonderful. Let's see now a young girl is a victim of rape and she is now put in a position where she will be arrested for helping cover up the crime and aiding and abetting the criminal who raped her! Oh what about all her fellow co-conspiritors family,friends,doctors,clinic,teachers in this coverup? It a Mad, Mad world!

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 01:09:04 PM EST
    I don't understand Kansas's statutory rape law. How can they make felons out of kids who have sex? And how far does it go? Would they jail a couple of 6 year-olds playing doctor? In Michigan they clamored to charge that 6 year-old who shot that little girl as an adult, so I wouldn't put it past the KS authorities to do the same thing with a charge as serious as rape.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 01:09:24 PM EST
    That man is way too fascinated by young girls' sex lives. Strikes me as unhealthy.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#8)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 03:55:15 PM EST
    Look, guys. There have been instances of adult men screwing underage girls. You know that. This is not the time to pretend the rest of us are going to go along with your pretense it never happens. Why doesn't he check...whatever else he ought to check? Show he doesn't. Explain how professionals are supposed to report suspected instances of child abuse under pain of prosecution and still not tell anybody. This guy may or may not have ulterior motives, but to show that, you'll have to demonstrate that young girls are never molested by grown men (or at least those who are never get abortions so their records wouldn't be at the clinics). You can also have the clinics demonstrate they followed the law by telling law enforcement about suspected cases of statutory rape. Or you can explain why that law does not or should not apply here, while applauding the jailing of a teacher in some other case for not noticing bruises on a kid. You have a lot of work to do. You will no doubt convince yourselves you've done it well. Give it a shot.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#9)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 03:57:09 PM EST
    Oh, yeah. The kid in Michigan was incompetently defended in the press as well as the courtroom by Feiger. He was tried as an adult so that, after his juvenile-style sentence, he could be kept in jail if he showed no rehabilitation. It was not his first offense. He was not just playing around with a gun. There was never--and I know you know it but will lie about it--any intent of giving him an adult sentence.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 06:55:29 PM EST
    Why not subpoena all the pharmacy records to find boys who bought condoms? Why not subpoena everyone's medical records, I'm sure some of them would indicate a crime. Why not search everyone's house, we know there must be evidence of crimes in some of them? Do you really feel better about cops traipsing thru your medical records than thru your house? This jerk is on a publicity inspired fishing expedition and he is terrorizing women to do it. Under the current federal standards, I say send him to gitmo.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#12)
    by cp on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 08:04:37 PM EST
    richard aubrey, do you get some sort of kinky, masochistic pleasure in displaying your stupidity for all the world to see? people want to know, dammit! let's see, had he done anything other than demand the unexpurgated records of the abortion clinics, what do you suppose the odds are they would have quietly acquiesced? any medical care provider, under similar circumstances, would fight to keep those records private as well. i just feel certain the media would have picked up on that too. this, of course, has absolutely nothing whatever to do with "older men having sex with underage girls.", you complete, blithering, sad excuse for a useless lump of utterly wasted carbon. you have delusions of even being a troll. no self respecting troll would possibly be as obviously moronic as you are in your ramblings. even ppj works at a higher level then you, and that isn't a very high bar. sorry guys, there are just obviously spaces between this twit, and everything he says. every so often i just have to vent. either that, or find him and kill him, for all of our mental sakes. it was a tough call.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 06:45:01 AM EST
    cp - Just when I think you are at least 80% percent human, you write: "even ppj works at a higher level then you, and that isn't a very high bar." That is unwarranted on several levels. The first is that I have noted numerous times that I am pro-choice, but against abortion. The second is that I haven't even commented on this post. The third, is your threat of physcial violence. That the AG in question shouldn't be doing what he is, is a given. That the press may have left out details unfavorable to its position is likely. Finally, RA's comment was a long statement that the Left is hypocritical on certain issues. That's true.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#14)
    by Kitt on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 07:14:32 AM EST
    Jeezus, Jim; we're all hypocritical at some point(s) - every spectrum on the line. Some of us are only human after all. And sometimes we just need to vent.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 07:37:40 AM EST
    An anti-abortion campaign supported by those who have no problem with a male-wh*re in the White House.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#16)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 07:41:57 AM EST
    cp. For my sake, try killing me. I need to displace a few things that have happened recently. Klaatu. To quote Ann Coulter, is there a website someplace to tell us if we're supposed to like or hate gays this week? You all got to be homophobes pretty quick. Does anybody know if the clinics have followed the law and reported possibilities of child molestation? If so, the AG should be shut down on this matter. If not, he should continue. Since you all think the sun rises and sets on abortion providers, it would follow they follow the law. All you have to do is show they did. Go ahead.

    Re: Fishing for Abortion Records in Kansas (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 08:27:08 AM EST
    kitt - Suits me, I'm sure you won't mind when it is your turn to be the ventee. ;-)