home

Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU

After a lawsuit was filed in federal court today by various groups on behalf of Ward Churchill, CU relented and rescinded its cancellation. He'll be speaking at 7 p.m. at C.U. in the Glenn Miller Ballroom.

CU's decision also came just hours after Churchill, American Indian Movement leader Russell Means and several organizations representing students and faculty filed suit claiming CU had violated Churchill's free speech rights. In an affidavit filed with the U.S. District Court lawsuit, Churchill said it is critical he be able to speak.

"My comments ... have caused a great public outcry and I was intending to explain my meaning to the audience, in particular the CU student body," Churchill said. He said that according to published reports the CU regents are investigating whether he should be terminated and that Gov. Bill Owens has called on the regents to fire him.

"In an effort to explain to the public what my comments actually were and what they were meant to be, it was very important that I be able to make this speech on a matter of such burning public concern," Churchill said.

As to the lawsuit,

In the federal lawsuit, his lawyers - David Lane and Darold Killmer - said that Churchill allegedly made comments to the effect that the Pentagon and World Trade Center were targeted for a reason, and that the attacks were a direct result of American foreign and economic policy.

Churchill alleged that "certain victims of the attack should not be viewed as entirely 'innocent' victims as they had helped fuel the American military/industrial machine," the lawsuit claimed.

"We had heard from professor Churchill as well as from others that there were threats to his safety as well as to students, and our concern is that there had not been sufficient planning for the event itself," Stump said.

The lawsuit said the cancellation was a sham.

"Security has nothing to do with the defendants (CU) canceling Professor Churchill's speech," the lawsuit said. "Evidence of this is that the University of Colorado apparently believes Professor Churchill's presence on campus does not involve any security issues as he continues to teach five classes per week on campus. He continues to work in his on-campus office and daily walks freely about the campus with no security provided by the university, and apparently none needed."

Means said in an affidavit that he and three car-loads of his friends and associates have traveled hundreds of miles from South Dakota to hear Churchill and that his First Amendment right to hear Churchill and participate in discussions and debate had been violated by CU.

< Texas DA to Plead Guilty to Gun Charges, Drug Charges Dropped | Vultures Surround Eason >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 05:52:24 PM EST
    Sedicious liars back on stage, YEEEAAH!!!

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 05:56:24 PM EST
    on the previous thread, J4564 said that Churchill should be fired because he made the factually incorrect statement that the WTC victims "deserved what they got" boy, products of the Colorado educational system must really be challenged first of all, Churchill never said that the WTC victims "deserved what they got" go back and read the article, or better yet, go to his speech tonight second, even if he did, such a statement is not a "fact", it's an opinion and, you don't fire faculty for opinions, it's an old principle in Western societies, with the exception of the times that fascist and Marxist-Leninist politicians took power but, I guess that's what to expect from people uncritically swallow nonsense supplied by neo-conservative front groups and their allies on talk radio after all, many of these same people talk about the substitution of the "faith based community" for the "reality based" one when making policy decisions and, it's not just Churchill, the Environmental Studies Department at CU just got rid of an instructor who actually had the temerity to teach about the relationship of race and class to environmental corporate misconduct CU, the laughingstock of the nation, because, if the athletic department is an example, Churchill would have had no problem if he had sexually harassed and raped his female students, but outre opinions about 9/11, that's beyond the pale

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#3)
    by Richard Aubrey on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 06:17:50 PM EST
    J4. Ref the last on the earlier thread. No, it would not be okay with TLers. Because it's different. See? Hate speech. Speech codes. Climate of fear. Stuff like that. You think you'll find a principle on this board that would actually be held when it was inconvenient? Snork. See them knocking themeselves out to defend Hoppe at UNLV?

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 06:21:58 PM EST
    Given the public interest in this controversy, the University of Colorado should videotape and make the lecture/audience discussion available to television networks in Colorado and other media outlets for national distribution.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 06:24:22 PM EST
    [Sorry--accidentally left out name--I wrote the post re: videotaping the event.] Richard Estes: I agreed with your earlier point about the absurdity, unfairness, and illegality of any kind of retrospective post-tenure review of Churchill with an eye to taking back his tenure or promotions or firing him due mostly to the [shorter] version of his essay [linked all over the place] for which neo-cons., rightwingers, and others unfamiliar with academic protocols are clamoring. (That post got removed when TL closed that thread's comments and sent us here.)

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 06:48:11 PM EST
    "As to those in the World Trade Center . . . Well, really. Let's get a grip here, shall we? True enough, they were civilians of a sort. But innocent? Gimme a break. They formed a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire – the "mighty engine of profit" to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved – and they did so both willingly and knowingly." "If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it." In short, they deserved what they got. And I gathered that from reading the above quote. Didn't need anyone to feed it to me. By his own definition, Churchill himself is "a little Eichmann". I imagine "both willingly and knowingly" he pays his taxes, and being an educated man I am sure he knows some of those tax dollars go to the US military who imposes America's will around the world. "They formed a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire – the "mighty engine of profit" to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved – and they did so both willingly and knowingly." What do you think that means? You're the smart guy. To me it sounds like they knew what they were getting into, almost like they were in the mafia and should expect to get wacked. Like I said earlier, I go to work for one reason, to support my family, and I am pretty sure the same goes for 90% of the working population(including those who worked at WTC). I ask again, do you think you are oppressing and killing people around the world by going to work? According to Churchill, if you work in a profit center, and you get killed at work by islamic terrorists, you had it coming. That is utter incompetence, and the state should not be paying someone to teach that to a captive audience. What if a white seperatist got tenure at CU and wrote an essay on the destruction of society because of the whites mingling with mongrel races. Is it OK with you that your tax dollars (if you're a CO resident) pay him to teach your child?

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 07:12:41 PM EST
    Ward Churchill has also already written that his previous analysis re: complicity of Americans in what "our" government does "in our name" applies to both himself personally and to his own family (even if he, they, and we protest it and vote against it). (It's in his Jan. 31, 2005 "press release" linked in earlier threads.) For perspectives of the students at the University of Colorado, see their own "campus press" online here and here. I'm interested in hearing what he says by way of further contextualization and clarification of his much-distributed short essay during his talk tonight at CU and in further response. (Being in New York, however, I'm not able to be in Boulder to hear it. Hope the text is published somewhere if it's not televised.)

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 07:22:25 PM EST
    It is pretty simple. Does a US citizen deserve to die for trying to earn a living? Or, is that so obsurd that it is incompetent?

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#9)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 07:26:26 PM EST
    As far as I can tell, people calling for Churchill's head want him fired because he expressed an objectionable opinion. Before we fire him, what other opinions are off limits? After all, wouldn't it be more convenient to oust all the heretics at once instead of one by one?

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 07:42:16 PM EST
    Is it incompetence? Or is this character skilled in garnering money and attention to himself? Look at us here, providing him with his 16th minute of fame.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 07:43:52 PM EST
    Maybe "The Free Speech Network: What Democracy Looks Like" would be an appropriate venue to broadcast Churchill's CU Boulder lecture? (Unfortunately, it broadcasts only as part of the DISH network, so it's not fully accessible; hope some publicly-accessible broadcast or cable network will air it.) Speaking of "what democracy looks like," amidst all this talk from the Bush administration and its Republican supporters on behalf of "democracy" and "freedoms" (inc., one presumes, "freedom of speech") in Iraq and elsewhere in the world, it is extraordinarily hypocritical for the same people to speak out of the other side of their mouths against Ward Churchill's First-Amendment rights. It's not "popular opinions" that that amendment most protects; it's unpopular ones. Speaking of hyperboles--"sedition?!!"

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 07:45:38 PM EST
    He can say whatever he wants. But he is being paid by the state and as an educator he has to be held accountable for what he says, by the state. Would you want tax dollars going to someone who espouses the the virtues of the Ku Klux Klan to a captive audience(maybe even your child)? Neither his nore the Klan arguments are competent or can be defended. Again, he can say whatever he wants, but whoever is paying him must hold him accountable. Last year the Dixie Chicks made some comments about the president. They were held accountable by the people that pay them(people who buy their CDs and concert goers). They spoke their mind and their fans spoke their minds. I bet if the people of Colorado were polled, most would say to fire him, just like the governor.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 07:49:59 PM EST
    For the historically-challenged, I refer you to Lawrence Lessig (pre-Ward Churchill controversy) on The Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798" .

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 07:52:16 PM EST
    The Ku Klux Klan can say whatever they want (as long as they don't incite violence), but should tax dollars subsidize their speech?

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimcee on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 07:56:10 PM EST
    I would like to see it. Maybe CSPAN could get a feed for reruns. Let the man speak for himself, after all if everyone gives him enough rope..... Or he may make a case for himself, either way it is a rather public drama and frankly I sort of feel sorry for the guy but not a fuzzy-warm kind of sorry. Either way, "Its showtime" for Professor Churchill.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#16)
    by Richard Aubrey on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:05:51 PM EST
    Quaker: What other opinions? Those expressed in college conservative publications which are frequently stolen. See, as I keep saying to the selectively deaf, Hoppe at UNLV. BTW, some time back I made the observation that you folks made up crap like affirmative action, and speech codes and so forth with the presumption you would always be the ones in charge, telling the train where to go. But once the mechanism is in place, what if somebody else gets hold of the levers? What's your beef then? In aid of which I mention a veteran who objected to the antiwar posters on his prof's door. Climate of hostility and all that stuff. It got investigated and the admin figured that the posters being antiwar didn't count. If they'd been antiveteran, implication goes, that might have been actionable. Missed this time. Maybe next time. Your grip on the levers is slipping, but the machine keeps running. Enjoy.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:13:19 PM EST
    He isn't going to be put in jail, he is going to lose his job. People HAVE to be held accountable for what they say. He works for the state of Colorado and represents CU. The citizens of Colorado will hold him accountable for what he said. Everyone is accountable for what they say, if you are a nut on the street shouting we deserved what we got on 9/11, he will be shouted down and ridiculed. You want that nut who the public believes to be incompetent to be teaching a captive audience? I believe he also wrote that the Jews exaggerate the holocaust in order to cover up their "genocide" of the Palestinians. I heard him on the radio with the father of a WTC victim. He told the father(it was his son's first job out of college) that his son was a little Eichmann. His incompetence is repeated over and over. Should tax dollars pay this man?

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:22:18 PM EST
    It is pretty simple. Does a US citizen deserve to die for trying to earn a living? It is pretty simple. Does an Iraqi or Afghan citizen deserve to die for trying to earn a living, or is it only Americans who are allowed to complain when they are collateral damage from bombs and missiles?

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:28:01 PM EST
    J4564: If the citizens of Colorado didn't hold CU accountable after the rape scandals, the med school faculty melt-down, and Bill McCartney using CU as a pulpit and TV vehicle for Christian extremism, I doubt they are going to do anything about Ward Churchill.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:29:15 PM EST
    Our citizens were TARGETED. I am pretty sure, especially after the elections in both countrys, that those citizens are better off now than they were before, under the Taliban and Saddam. We don't target innocent civilians. That is one of the reasons we are the good guys, we don't intentionally kill their innocent civilians, they intentionally kill our citizens. It is a shame I have to explain that.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:33:08 PM EST
    I am pretty sure Churchill is going to be fired. It will be due the outrage of Colorado citizens AND outrage of CU donors.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 08:35:16 PM EST
    I guess we'll have to wait and see. Goodnight.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#23)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 09:05:52 PM EST
    I am pretty sure Churchill is going to be fired. Only if the university is prepared to make a handsome cash settlement. The terms of his tenure don't give the university the right to fire him for holding unpopular ideas. To can him, they'll have to be able to demonstrate that he's not competent at his job. Insider whispers? He teaches no-fail, softball courses for the university's athletes. CU has had enough scandals with its athletic programs. They don't need him telling tales about how the university gives its athletes a free ride academically.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#24)
    by Richard Aubrey on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 09:30:27 PM EST
    Quaker. I can't imagine any prof being shown to be a poor teacher. How would anybody know? How would you define it? I had a prof who gave everybody blanket As with no tests, no quizzes, no requirement they show up as long as they went out to radicalize. This was in 1968. It would have been different if he'd shown up for the non-radicals, but he didn't. This being an intro course, the non-radicals were seriously shortchanged in their education. He didn't get fired. Not showing up would be serious in some other endeavor. Not college. Still, his cv is bogus. That might amount to something.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#25)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 10:14:47 PM EST
    I can't imagine any prof being shown to be a poor teacher. How would anybody know? How would you define it? I really don't know. Nonetheless, those are the terms of his tenure. His personal or political opinions in no way reflect his competence as an instructor. Are you sure you want to go down this path? After all, with the storied dominance of liberals on university campuses, this would give us the precedent we need to purge the few remaining conservatives, wouldn't it?

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#26)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Tue Feb 08, 2005 at 10:59:00 PM EST
    And Aubrey? As far as Professor Hoppe goes, nobody is calling for him to be fired, especially not the governor of the Nevada or any members of the legislature I'm aware of. Because a student complained about his remarks regarding homosexuals, he has been disciplined within the guidelines of the university, reprimanded, and docked a week's pay. Personally, I think his remarks are questionable, but the university is entirely wrong in how they've chosen to handle the complaint. By the way, the ACLU is representing him on academic freedom grounds.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#27)
    by Richard Aubrey on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 05:29:14 AM EST
    Yes, Quaker, a conservative prof said that he (I call it the sane) and his conservative buddies hoped Churchill wouldn't be fired because it would put them at risk. The sane live at the sufferance of the psychopaths. There is no reason Hoppe should have been disciplined. What he said was either empirically verifiable or it was not. Hell, saying stuff not empirically verifiable is hardly an academic offense. I'm glad a closet cell of the ACLU came out. Hope national doesn't hear of this. Now, since you think freedom means any left-wing moron has a claim on everybody eles's resources, would you want to restrict, say, alumni who wish to make donations elsewhere? BTW, the Prof has a quote from Nelson Ascher with your name on it. Actually, pretty much the names of all TLers.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#28)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 09:10:07 AM EST
    Now, since you think freedom means any left-wing moron has a claim on everybody eles's resources, would you want to restrict, say, alumni who wish to make donations elsewhere? Whuh?

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Feb 09, 2005 at 05:05:21 PM EST
    Michael D - Well, at least they had a better team and fewer scandals, that is, unless you count McCartney praying in public.

    Re: Churchill Speech Tonight Back On at CU (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 10, 2005 at 09:26:12 AM EST
    I would like to be able to acquire the presentation of Ward so that I may play it for my students. The words that he stated have been crying out in my heart for so long. Keep going Ward! Midnight Sun