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Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony

By Jeralyn, Section Foreign Affairs
Posted on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 06:27:57 PM EST
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I didn't think Dick Cheney was a good choice to represent the U.S. at the commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auchwitz, but I didn't expect this. Can anyone find another time he appeared at an official event so dressed down? I bet not. It's not like he flew commercial and they lost his baggage. So why the nonchalance (at best) and disrespect?

Vice President Dick Cheney raised eyebrows on Friday for wearing an olive-drab parka, hiking boots and knit ski cap to represent the United States at a solemn ceremony remembering the liberation of Auschwitz.

Other leaders at the event in Poland on Thursday marking the 60th anniversary of the death camp's liberation, such as French President Jacques Chirac and Russian President Vladimir Putin, wore dark, formal overcoats and dress shoes or boots.

"The vice president, however, was dressed in the kind of attire one typically wears to operate a snow blower," Robin Givhan, The Washington Post's fashion writer, wrote in the newspaper's Friday editions.

[p. photo via Atrios.]

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    Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony | 63 comments (63 topical)
    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#1)
    by wishful on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 06:43:45 PM EST
    Whatever else Cheney is, he is a smart man. He understands exactly what he was doing, knows protocol as well or better than anyone, and intends to send the message that was received. The only ones who don't understand this are American apologists too ignorant to know better, which is no excuse at all.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:53:46 PM EST
    he is a pig - what do you expect?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimcee on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:59:09 PM EST
    Hey he looks like he is dressed warm. Could be worse he could have not shown up at all, you know like all the Muslim heads of state. I have a hard time believeing that the ghosts of Auchwicz care how Cheney is dressed. What surprizes me is that there are those that are so desperate that they would be so snarky about a tribute to those who died in the concentration camps as to do a fashion critique of those who did attend. There are reasons I left the Left and this is but one. The 60's Liberalism is dead. Classical Liberals rule as they always have in a free society.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:09:17 PM EST
    It didn't occur to you that a man with heart disease ought to stay warm? Or was that just way, way to complicated for you?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:40:31 PM EST
    James, then why didn't he dress that way at the Inauguration? It was probably colder there. Like I said, name another time he dressed that way at an offical event where he was representing the United States?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#6)
    by wishful on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:46:11 PM EST
    James, you don't really expect anyone to believe that the only warm clothes available are ones that are inappropriate for this occasion? Cheney is waaaayyy too smart to believe that, as are the readers here.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:53:47 PM EST
    Polish people I know were very offended. Crap like this is why we're losing whatever war we're fighting these days.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:58:35 PM EST
    The ghosts of Auschwitz recognize Cheney all too well. As you haven't noticed, Dick Cheney had NO problem dressing appropriately for the cold "inauguration." He owns the right clothes. But let's not forget Bush's famous ZIPPER DOWN performance in South America. (Since scrubbed from the Internet, or I would link it.) He, at least, wasn't afraid of the 'cold.' It's never too cold to insult the world's peoples. And when Bush was at Auschwitz, his comment to the curator after the tour was "I bet a lot of people dispute what you present here." Real sensitive. And who can forget those famous words from Bush's Goree Island speech: "Small men took on the powers and airs of tyrants and masters. Years of unpunished brutality and bullying and rape produced a dullness and hardness of conscience. Christian men and women became blind to the clearest commands of their faith and added hypocrisy to injustice. A republic founded on equality for all became a prison for millions." Gee, I wonder what he was really saying? Help Put Rumsfeld, Tenet, and Sanchez on Trial for Warcrimes at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 10:06:05 PM EST
    This is a typical example of what people surrounding Bush are able to do. They follow their own way, ignoring the international savoir-vivre the same way they ignore Geneva convention. Disgusting!

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 10:28:46 PM EST
    Man you liberals complain about everthing. Who cares about the way he's dressed. IT'S COLD. Anyways, a word from scripture. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. John 13:34 See ya

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 10:34:44 PM EST
    ...or maybe it was casual day.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 01:11:42 AM EST
    "Man you liberals complain about everthing." The man shows up at Auschwitz death camp with a cap that says: STAFF Don't think we and the world don't get what that is supposed to mean. The flashiness of the parka, and the boots, is to suggest the WARDEN, who can wear what he pleases. The idea that Dick Cheney, who has conspired to kill more than 100,000 innocent (= Not Proven Guilty of Anything Other than being Arab) people, one of the authors of the Rape of Fallujah, is the man to put a wreath on Auschwitz is like last year, when Bush decided to evacuate the MLK Jr. eternal flame, disrupting the celebration, having city cops push the (mostly black) celebrants behind a row of city buses on the other side of the highway, AND getting the US taxpayers to pay his way to a Concerned Citizens Council (KKK) fundraiser. He took that video to the KKK (oh, CCC) meeting, and the next morning put Pickering on the DC court. That'll fix that n*r MLK Jr. Lots of donations, lots of laughs. Cheney takes HIS footage from Auschwitz, and does the exact same thing with right-wing (Nazi) billionaires in the former states. And the same laughing is heard. Kaching!! We're real sure which side we're on, and Dick Cheney has proven which side he's on, along with the rest of the neo-Nazi right wing. The right to Kill All Arabs was not bestowed on Dick Cheney by 911, as he clearly claims at Auschwitz, just as the right to Kill All Poles was not bestowed on Adolph Hitler by his false claim that Poles were castrating Germans.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 02:18:06 AM EST
    The guy to the left is Israeli president Moshe Katsav. He is in his 70s (older than Cheney), but it seems he was able to find some warm clothes more appropriate for the occasion. Come to think of it, why would the vice president of the United States care anyway. After all, the *Soviet Union* liberated Auschwitz, not the US.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 03:07:28 AM EST
    Jimcee: When you last went to a funeral, (for someone whom you respected) what did you wear? Did you give a minute's thought to what the clothes said about your attitude to the person(s) memory, or did you just think, "hey I can wear anything I like as long as I'm warm"? Could be worse he could have not shown up at all, you know like all the Muslim heads of state. Or maybe Tony Blair? He wasn't there either. And your point is? I have a hard time believeing that the ghosts of Auchwicz care how Cheney is dressed. I have a hard time believing that the ghosts heard anything. However, back here in the land of the living, those who still have eyes can see that what Cheney is doing is sending a message - a big loud "I'm Dick Cheney. I run America, I run the godamn world, so I'll do as I damn well please. You don't like it? F**K YOU and welcome to Guantanamo". What surprizes me is that there are those that are so desperate that they would be so snarky about a tribute to those who died in the concentration camps as to do a fashion critique of those who did attend. It's not really a fashion critique. Nobody's saying that he didn't look fashionable - I hear that olive green parkas are in right now. No, it's more of an analysis of why the (arguably) second most powerful man in the world decides to show up in such inappropriate clothing for such a sombre event. Don't think that politicians don't understand the messages they send in everything they do. And here's where we get a little off topic - sorry... There are reasons I left the Left and this is but one. Yeah, whatever. You're a traitor and a sell out, and all you're doing is trying to make yourself feel better. People like you were never really committed in the first place. What probably happened is that back when you were young and you had no cash, and you wanted to be part of the cool crowd and probably weren't getting laid a lot, you jumped on the bandwagon, grew your hair, maybe even inhaled (just a little), got a little freaky with some cute hippy chicks. (Or perhaps not). But truth is, you probably knew in your heart even then that all your proclaimed concern for other people in the world was really just so much hot air designed to help you fit in with the in-crowd. Of course, once it became unfashionable, once people started getting arrested and beaten up, once the chicks started sleeping with disco DJs not hippies, but most of all, once YOU started making some proper cash of your own, you realised that actually, all you really cared about was pursuing your own self interests and making sure that all your cash went straight into your own pocket. Basically, you decided: "Screw the rest of the world, I wanna get PAID." It happens a lot and people like you always try to pretend that it's "the Left" that changed, not you, and not your willingness to actually redistribute YOUR income rather than just that of your parents. The 60's Liberalism is dead. Well if it is, it was killed off by fair-weather sellouts like you who aren't willing to stand by their beliefs when faced with a big tempting wedge of cash. It's no more than political prostitution, my traitorous friend, and you seem to be a willing whore for the corporate pimp.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 03:20:38 AM EST
    JR: But Psalm 68 says God will shatter the heads of His enemies, the hairy crown of those who walk in their guilty ways...so that you may bathe your feet in blood, so that the tongues of your dogs may have their share from the foe. Yeah the Bible says lots of crap you can spout nonsensically out of context. It ain't all peace, love, and universal brotherhood. Trample under foot those who lust after tribute; scatter the peoples who delight in war, blah blah blah. You can pick and choose phrases out of just about any 2,000 page book and try to make a point with it. Bring me the Yellow Pages and I'll find something you can quote that sounds profound rather than tackling the issues at hand. There's nothing like the Good Book for deflecting criticism. If you can't find the apropos phrase, you can always just use the sheer mass of the thing and thwack your opponents over the head with it.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#18)
    by john horse on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 04:51:10 AM EST
    Hey, lets give Cheney credit, at least he showed up. By my last count, Bush has missed 1,427 funerals for the servicemen killed in Iraq (ok, I know he couldn't go to all of them, but couldn't he attend at least one?).

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 06:00:57 AM EST
    et al - Not one word about the Americans who died to destroy the evil that created this camp. Not one word about the victims slaughtered in this camp. Not one word about the Moslem leaders who did not come. Instead you titter and chatter about the color of a politicial opponent's coat. There is nothing that needs to be added. That says it all.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 06:01:39 AM EST
    You just know the state of the world can't be too bad when arguing about Dick Cheney's choice of attire at Auschwitz is important enough to make the news.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#21)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 07:51:07 AM EST
    Maybe the deficit is hitting home more than we thought. That coat has got to be on sale at Mall Wart for $99.95.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#22)
    by DonS on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 08:53:35 AM EST
    The wingers try rhetorical upsmanship and shaming that "we" should be concerned about something as superficial as dress. "We" point to something concrete and physical, that cannot be denied and spells disrespect without much imagination. Who ya gonna believe, the wingers or your own two eyes? Just because shrub "won" the election does not mean the laws of common sense and logic have been suspended.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 09:02:07 AM EST
    Instead you titter and chatter about the color of a politicial opponent's coat. At least he didn't have a cheesehead on? That he shows such monummental disrepect for the sacrifice Americans made to liberate the camps and end the tyranny of Nazi Germany is despicable. That is the real message he sent. American sacrifice is valueless. Oil profits are sacred.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 09:12:31 AM EST
    I want everyone here to reread the posts of those critical of Cheney. And when you are finished look forward to 2008. And when either a Republican or a very conservative Democratic ('southern') win the election remember your childlike whining. I had two aunts and two grandparents killed there. While I am slightly confused by his choice of attire I can in no way engage in this benign blather. I didn't wear a tie to my mother's funeral and I heard someone thought it was disrespectful. I simply forgot to put one on. In other words, get a life.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#25)
    by DonS on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 09:33:34 AM EST
    Boca, I too lost the vast majority of my mother's family to the Nazis. So please, no preaching that your opinion is the right one. There's sopmething wrong here, and if its NOT disrespect, it is a good imitation. And please, too, don't tell me I'm whining. Don't tell me I have to play nice with MY opinion of what I clearly feel so I won't offend some rascist or bigot.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#26)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 09:42:42 AM EST
    Clearly Dick hates Jews and approved of the Holocaust; what other reasonable explanation is there? Morons.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 10:11:54 AM EST
    "Posted by Poker Player: Not one word about the Americans who died to destroy the evil that created this camp." Oh yeah? I posted the link to the German Federal Prosecutor...didn't you see it? WE, with our fathers' blood, wrote the German warcrimes law. TO DESTROY THE EVIL THAT CREATED THIS CAMP, and Guantanamo, and Abu Ghraib. Maybe you missed it. My family lost five uncles in the war to put Hitler and his camps down. And we're willing to lose a couple more if necessary to put Dick Cheney down. 100,000+ innocent, untried VICTIMS of Cheney's money-lust. An entire city (or three) DESTROYED. The National Museum looted, with US permission, by Ahmed Chalabi's gang of expats. The Koran/Torah Repository, burned to the ground. The National Library, burned to the ground (but the books, no thanks to US thugs, mostly saved by those ornery mullahs). Women and children splattered against their kitchen walls. Innocent people swept up and tortured. Blitzkrieg against a DISARMED country. And the SAME racists applaud. And if there's any question who is the warden, who is the jailor: STAFF tells it all. That will be the label on the front of his Nuremburg box at the trial, Jimbo. You can go visit the trial and tell all the victim's families that they had to die because George, Dick, and Donald had an itch in their arse that told them they have the right to kill the innocent en masse, to the horror of the entire world once again.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#29)
    by Peaches on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 10:17:29 AM EST
    Jimcee, Classical Liberals rule as they always have in a free society. I know what you are talking about and in a strange sense we probably agree, but...Cheney is a classic liberal?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#30)
    by Peaches on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 10:19:08 AM EST
    Cheney is a classical liberal?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 10:21:26 AM EST
    "Posted by pigwiggle: Clearly Dick hates Jews and approved of the Holocaust; what other reasonable explanation is there? Morons" Yeah, reasonable 'explanations,' which includes telling lies to the US population to drive them into war. WHAT a bunch of morons believed those felons, eh? What kind of idiot would believe a single WORD that came out of george or dick's mouth? "Eternal War" Dick Cheney is a war criminal. You can say a lot of nasty things about Bill Clinton, but there isn't any good evidence that he was a war criminal. These thugs? We have the evidence; all we need is even a fraction of the INVESTIGATION thrown at Clinton like he was Stalin with a Saxophone. And you blokes know it. WHAT A BUNCH OF ERRANT LIARS AND RACISTS, 'pigwiggle.' If Cheney is the STAFF, what part of the Camp are you? Ash-shoveler.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#32)
    by Peaches on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 10:47:04 AM EST
    Clearly Dick hates Jews and approved of the Holocaust; what other reasonable explanation is there? Morons. I apologize for Piggle. Clearly, I put him in a sour mood. Piggles, What is your reasonable explanation? Dick may hate Jews, he might not. I would not be surprised. He probably does not approve of the holocaust, but he may question some of the historical accounts. It would not be outside his character. We know he hates liberals. Give us your explanation. Was it just the cold? Does he lack an advisor on what to wear? I agree, it is petty. I would show up looking much worse. But I am not representing the US. I am not a statesman. I think TL asks a legitimate question? What message was DC trying to send?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#33)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 10:50:24 AM EST
    “And you blokes know it. WHAT A BUNCH OF ERRANT LIARS AND RACISTS, 'pigwiggle.' If Cheney is the STAFF, what part of the Camp are you?” No joking; I am consistently amazed at the nonsensical garbage you vomit out here. It is like a tourettic spasm of delusional, conspiratorial whim-wham. Truly, truly bizarre. I get the impression you are one traumatic event away from a substantial stay in a psychiatric hospital. Good luck with that.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#34)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 11:03:06 AM EST
    “What is your reasonable explanation?” Dick Cheney is a clod. It could only work to his advantage to strike the appearance of a thoughtful, compassionate statesman; and he blew it. “I think TL asks a legitimate question? What message was DC trying to send?: Most likely none; but if you really want me to indulge in this conspiratorial free-for-all, I’d say he is trying to lure the left into an endless debate about the appropriate attire for a Holocaust memorial (quite successfully I might add) while he quietly invades Iran. As a side note; this business reminds me of Reagan’s public viewing. I was surprised to see the endless stream of lookyloos in their Planet Hollywood t-shirts and Bermudas shorts. It was disturbing; quite different that just forgetting a tie at a funeral.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 12:22:31 PM EST
    cheney doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone but himself.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#36)
    by Andreas on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 01:07:11 PM EST
    Cheney’s entire political and business career strongly suggests that if, by a twist of fate, he had grown to maturity in pre-war Germany rather than in the post-war United States, he would have found his way either into the Nazi regime or among the corporate criminals who financed the Nazis and profited off of the slave labor of concentration camp inmates. The Bush administration is not the Third Reich and Cheney is not a Nazi, but the parallels between the course upon which German imperialism embarked in the 1930s and the one taken today by the government in Washington are real and have profound objective roots. With his invocation to “fight tyranny and spread the freedom that leads to peace,” Cheney used the Auschwitz commemoration to echo the threat of global US military aggression advanced by Bush in his inauguration address a week earlier.
    Cheney at Auschwitz: an insult to the memory of Nazism’s victims By Bill Van Auken, 28 January 2005

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#37)
    by ras on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 01:09:17 PM EST
    A lot of you guys don't appear to understand cold weather that well, or at least what it can do to anyone with a less-than-perfect heart. I looked up the temps. It was 8-10 degress (Farenheit) colder at Auschwitz than it had been at the inaugural. It was also windier, which is just as significant. See here for more info.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 01:24:04 PM EST
    Bah! I really doubt the veep meant any deliberate offense. The conspiratorial bile spewed here seems childish at best. Morons equating Abu Ghraib to Aushwitz have neither any sense of hostory nor any sense of proportion.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 01:24:37 PM EST
    hostory=history. typo happened.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 01:52:02 PM EST
    Let's call a spade a spade, shall we? I'm proud to be a liberal, but I really think this deal with Cheney's attire is simply overblown. Yes, I think he could have gotten himself something more appropriate to wear for the Auschwitz ceremonies. But in the final analysis, does it really matter? It's not like he went over there and verbally insulted anyone. Heck, I didn't even make the trip, and I've got a good heart. I'm willing to give Cheney a pass on this one. Even though I don't like him, I do respect the fact that he went, olive drab and all. So let's focus our attention on more important things, shall we?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#41)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 01:54:10 PM EST
    Cheney simply doesn't care. If this were a single incindent out of the last 4 years then you would write it off as a faux pas and let it go. But to me its a perfect symbol/example of how they just dont' care. Can't be bothered and think they are above all conventions.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#42)
    by john horse on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 02:02:32 PM EST
    What Cheney wore was disrespectful. I can understand him trying to keep warm but what some of you are suggesting is that a person either has to dress warmly or formally, but can't do both. If you believe that, take a look at how the people dressed next to Cheney.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#43)
    by john horse on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 02:05:48 PM EST
    ras, You say that you looked at the temps at the inaugural and at the Auschwitz memorial and the memorial was 8-10 degrees colder. Out of curiousity, what were the posted temperatures at both events? Please provide the link or links.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 02:57:27 PM EST
    Well, it's not the first time that a prominent republican has shown contempt for victims of the Holocaust.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 03:13:15 PM EST
    I kind of like that attire. I used to dress that way whenever it was cold. In Upstate New York (near lake Placid) or Wyoming, warm is crucial. Where are the Muslim heads of State?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 03:22:00 PM EST
    Paul In LA - Could you provide a link showing that Bush made the - "...dispute what you present here" comment? I found nothing in Google. You wouldn't be fibbing would you?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#47)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 03:23:14 PM EST
    It's worth noting that the WaPo article about Cheney's attire appeared in the fashion section! OK, Dick is guilty of a fashion faux pas. Let it go at that.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 03:25:49 PM EST
    "Morons equating Abu Ghraib to Aushwitz have neither any sense of hostory nor any sense of proportion." Actually, you're entirely wrong about that. The warcrimes laws, and the genocide convention, and the Geneva conventions, all quite specific about this kind of behavior, and SIZE does not matter. I get my sense of proportion from the Constitutional requirement that the government NOT LIE THE COUNTRY INTO UNAUTHORIZED WARS. You apparently get your sense of proportion from Rush Limbaugh, a proven drug addict and proven liar. As in intentionally tells lies. Just like Dick, and George. It's not mental hospitals, but courtrooms that are the future of these discussions. George, Dick, Donald, and the others think that they can change the law as they please, which is what all criminals think. I believe the United States of America is a nation of laws. But if for a moment, as a result of five years of electronically-stolen elections, we aren't -- Germany still is. Dick should get used to how it feels to face his crimes, staring out the cold bars at the snow blowing around like the ashes of his victims. Worse than Watergate?? Worse than Charlie Manson.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#49)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 03:27:44 PM EST
    PPJ, I remember the news stories from Bush's visit to Auschwitz. I think Paul's recall is pretty accurate, but I seem to remember Bush's remark being reported as a question, not a statement.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimcee on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 04:29:56 PM EST
    Ian, Actually it is people like you who drove me away from the Left. Your arrogance, immaturity, irrational jugementalism and infantile world-view pretty much says it all. You know nothing about my past but you would like to think that you do and that is just pathetic, childish nonsense. For your information the last funeral I attended I was dressed casually because I just got off a plane from Europe and had no time to go home and break out my suit. The family was kind to me and told me that it was OK because they were pleased to have me there to give my last respects. I have never changed my politics to get "laid" and really, really hated disco. Sixties Liberalism is on life support because of its excesses not because some left. Money has nothing to do with it, freedom from the foolish ideologies that inform your opinions. In other words, you're an idiot. Peaches, No I'm not implying that Cheney is a Classical Liberal just that the modern Left has no trace of Classical Liberalism in it. The Left has become very reactionary and that is not a Liberal trait in the least.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#51)
    by soccerdad on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 04:34:10 PM EST
    My recall is also that it was a question not a statement.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 04:47:31 PM EST
    Quaker - Thanks. Paul In LA - Do you disagree? Do you have an actual source?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 04:50:23 PM EST
    jimcee - Whay don't you tell us how you really feel? ;-)

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 05:37:11 PM EST
    its just another diversion from the real issues at hand, they have us all talking about Cheneys attire, (who really couldn't care less about the holocaust) while they dismantle SS

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#55)
    by john horse on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 05:44:46 PM EST
    ras, There is no excuse for plagiarism. You should be ashamed of yourself. You made the following comment: " I looked up the temps. It was 8-10 degress (Farenheit) colder at Auschwitz than it had been at the inaugural. It was also windier, which is just as significant." This is almost word for word the same as the website you linked to: "It was almost ten degrees colder at Auschwitz than it had been at the inaugural (I looked that up too). And windier, which means everything in that kinda weather. He made the right decision." I asked you what the temperature was, since you claimed to look it up and provide the links. You haven't responded which I can only believe is because you never did what you claimed. You are a dishonest person.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 06:17:38 PM EST
    Dearest No Name - But how do they know exactly where to dispatch the storm troopers? You know, the ones with guns at the heads... "Go on. Write something trivial, pilgrim."

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#57)
    by Peaches on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 11:42:33 PM EST
    No I'm not implying that Cheney is a Classical Liberal just that the modern Left has no trace of Classical Liberalism in it. The Left has become very reactionary and that is not a Liberal trait in the least. Jimcee, I can buy that. I know where you are coming form. But, tell me where can we find classical liberalism if it is not in the modern left. I happen to consider myself a libertarian, who espouses libertarian values, but when I looked at the 2004 elections I saw Kerry as much closer to the views, (althoug far form the classical liberal views I would endorse) than Bush. Where do we see things different? How do you see the war in Iraq and the American preemptive strike as following in the classical liberal viewpoint? How could we end so far apart, coming from the same libertatian stand?

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#58)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 05:27:29 AM EST
    You're right. In fact, take a look at the last three paragraphs of this piece--it will send shivers down your spine. How our children and grandchildren will remember this administration and this era in American history...

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 05:39:11 AM EST
    Cody P - Looking at this blog and a lot of others, all I can say is there is a whole lot of dissenting going on. Guess no one told the Feds they are supposed to be suppressing it.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#60)
    by pigwiggle on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 05:56:44 AM EST
    “But, tell me where can we find classical liberalism if it is not in the modern left.” Obviously the libertarian party; wasn’t Michael Badnarik on your ballot? “How do you see the war in Iraq and the American preemptive strike as following in the classical liberal viewpoint?” GWB didn’t have the authority to take us to war in Iraq. Senator Kerry did, and after reviewing the same intelligence as the president, promptly handed him the discretion; only to complain later when it was used. I’m not sure which is worse; a misguided preemptive war bases on bad intelligence, or the relinquishing of the war powers, likely one of the single greatest check that exists between the executives and the legislators. “How could we end so far apart, coming from the same libertatian stand?” The differences between your libertarian sensibilities and the posture of the two major parties are too large. You would be better able to argue over two different spans of the Grand Canyon, measuring it in handwidths.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#61)
    by john horse on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:17:42 AM EST
    Pig, First of all, we are getting off topic, but be that as it may, this is not John Kerry's war, its not the UN's war, its George Bush's war. The resolution may have given Bush the authorization to use force, but the decision to invade was his and his alone. If it wasn't for Bush and the Republicans, we would never have invaded Iraq. There was some "bad intelligence" but not all of Bush's intelligence was bad. For example, take the now discredited claim that Saddam attempted to purchase uranium from Africa. It was going to be used in Bush's October 7, 2002 Cincinatti speech but was removed after Deputy National Security Advisor Steven Hadley received a telephone call from CIA Director Tenet and 2 memos questioning the claim. According to the second memo (a copy of which was sent to Condoleeza Rice) there was "some weakness in the evidence" and that the "Africa story was one of two issues where we (the CIA) differed with the British intellegence . . ." Despite this, by December, 2002 the claim was once being asserted by the Bush administration. According to the Department of State fact sheet presented to the UN, Iraq failed to declare its "efforts to procure uranium from Niger." Of course, the claim was in Bush's State of the Union speech on January 28, 2003. However, it was not in Colin Powell's presentation to the UN because there was not "enough substantiation of it that would meet the tests that we were applying." If you take the combined vote in the Senate and House, 263 Republican legislators voted "yes" to only 7 Republican legislators voting "no". The combined vote for Democrats was 110 "yes" votes and 147 "no" votes (and yes, more Democratic Senators voted yes than no). My point is that if the decision was only left to the Democrats, Bush would not have received authorization. Regarding the vote, as William Saletan has pointed out "Many of them, if not most, voted for the war resolution on the theory that by appearing to be prepared for war, they might avoid it." However, I am not an apologist for those Democrats that voted for it. They made a terrible mistake. Neither should you be for Bush. The Democratic and Republican legislators may have helped open the door, but the decision to walk through was made by Bush alone.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#62)
    by jimcee on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:17:13 AM EST
    As a Classical Liberal myself don't find much of it on either the Left or Right but more on the right of center. The Left has created and implemented speech codes, hate crime laws (thought crimes), affirative action (racism by another name), communism, and many other ideas that seem like good ideas on the drawing board but in actuality they are terrible in practice. Mostly though I have found that the Left has become too radicalized and negative. It has also cherry picked historical events to support their views and ignored the timeline and circumstances of the events of history that do not support thier causes. Me, I want my taxes low, my government small and my freedoms numerous and right now that is more of a Right thing than a Left thing. As far as parties go I am a registered independent(small "I") and will vote for the candidates that I think are the best for the job. Locally I have voted for Dems as often as Reps. On the Nat'l level the Dems have not been able to field a candidate that I could vote for, especially Sen. Kerry and Sen. Edwards. I probably would have voted for Sen. Lieberman if given the choice but the far Left of the Dems wouldn't have any part of him. Whether it was antisemitism or his support for the WOT I don't know but they have become a marginal party because of its embrace of people such as M. Moore, Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. Perhaps someday it will come to its senses but for now it is a shadow of what it once was.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#63)
    by pigwiggle on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:59:50 AM EST
    “but the decision to invade was his and his alone.” No, congress holds the keys to war. Would you have me hold the Justice Department responsible if the Supreme Court were to let the DOJ write their decisions? Congress is to blame. The Yellow Cake story is superfluous; senator Kerry sat on the intelligence committee and was privy to the same information the president was. But this isn’t the issue; the issue is international intervention. The Democrats and Republicans only differ (slightly) in what form this should take, not if we should be engaged in it at all. Full-scale wars, or wars of economic and military attrition; I won’t cast my vote for either.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#64)
    by jondee on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 01:50:48 PM EST
    Aushwitz - just the setting for a man whose career is nothing if not a fervant testimony to the belief in the efficacy and ultimate utility of seeking out the cheapest, most expendable labor;("people"to some bleeding-heart types). One or two stray ducats("other priority" shrapnal),account for the permanant scowl.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#65)
    by john horse on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 01:55:43 PM EST
    Pig, re: "senator Kerry sat on the intelligence committee and was privy to the same information the president was." Once again your arguement is not supported by the evidence. Almost all the prewar intelligence presented to the Senate Intelligence Committee was flawed. My point about the Yellowcake was that it wasn't flawed intelligence (though there was flawed intelligence) but in some cases the intelligence was right on target. The only conclusion that you can reach for why this was used is that Bush knowingly misrepresented the evidence.

    Re: Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony (none / 0) (#66)
    by pigwiggle on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 03:10:32 PM EST
    “Once again your arguement is not supported by the evidence. Almost all the prewar intelligence presented to the Senate Intelligence Committee was flawed.” Of course it was flawed, as you may have noticed Iraq didn’t have WMDs. That wasn’t my argument. If you have some evidence that the CIA’s mishandling and intelligence failures were the result of the executive branch then you might have something. But that’s just not the case. The report blames, among others, ‘group-think’ and a reluctance to insert spies into Iraq. None of this indicts the president, as you would like. Congress authorized war, and congress shares responsibility. If you have some as to now undisclosed evidence that the President conspired to present false intelligence to the congressional intelligence committee cough it up. Otherwise your attempt to absolve the Congress of their duty to check the executives in war is flat. Further, the story you linked to states “No one at the CIA told the National Security Council of concerns about the credibility of the Niger intelligence as President Bush's 2003 State of the Union speech was drafted, contrary to officials' previous assertions, the report said.” This is in line with the executives excuse for including the spurious claim in the state of the union. Again, if you have evidence that the executives knew this was false and conspired to hide it from the senate intelligence committee, cough it up. I’m sure I dislike GWB as much as you; but I’m not going to give those complicit in the invasion a pass because of it. You make heavy accusations. If there is reasonable evidence to show the executives lied about intelligence or conspired to provide false intelligence to congress they could easily be indicted.

    Cheney Dresses Down for Auchwitz Ceremony | 63 comments (63 topical)