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Friday Open Thread

Donald Trump has all the delegates he needs. Bernie Sanders does not. But Bernie's trying to stay relevant by debating Donald Trump. Yes, some polls have Hillary and Bernie in a dead heat in California. Others have Hillary with a wide lead. Others say there's a backlash against Bernie brewing.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Hillary, Donald and Bernie Open Thread
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    Audiobook Recommendation (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by ruffian on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:53:41 PM EST
    I'm currently listening to "Life After Death", by Damien Echols, one of the exonerated West Memphis 3, read by the author. We've talked before about the various documentaries about the case. You probably recall Echols was the oldest of the 3, and sentenced to death, and also seemed to me anyway, very intelligent and articulate on screen.

    As it turns out he is also a very good writer and reader of his work. His voice and accent remind me of the readers of the various John Grisham books I have listened to on tape.

     The book is a combination memoir and excerpts from his prison journals. He writes about his extremely impoverished childhood in a very matter of fact yet moving way. Such stories....in particular, one of his only escapes as a child was to read horror stories, so even as a pre-teen he was devouring Stephen King and Dean Koontz books that he could get from the little library, reading them multiple times. The thought that this only pleasure of a child living in extreme poverty was later used against him to put him in prison for a crime he did not commit is just heartbreaking.

    I'm only to about his 7th grade or so years and he has already been moved more times than I can count, each living situation more horrible than the last.

    If you want to know what it is really like to grow up in such conditions, not to mention spend 17 years in prison for a crime you did not commit...you should take a listen.

    I'll have to check that out (none / 0) (#23)
    by McBain on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:12:40 PM EST
    I wonder how many other Damien Echols there are still in prison, or worse, been executed for crimes they didn't commit?

    Parent
    Apparently (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:23:14 PM EST
    people have been looking for that innocent person put to death for a long time and I have wondered the same thing myself. Has it a case ever been found?

    Parent
    They have not been looking very hard (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:49:19 PM EST
    10 people presumed invent after execution

    Pretty sure you coukd find lots more without looking very hard.   That too a 30 sec Google

    Parent

    There's this (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:52:18 PM EST

    Since 1976, we have executed over 1,397 individuals in this country. As of January 2015, 150 individuals have been exonerated--that is, found to be innocent and set free. In other words, for every 10 people who have been executed since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976, one person has been set free.


    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:00:20 PM EST
    this

    8 innocent people who were executed

    Parent

    I'd offer Ethel Rosenberg. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 27, 2016 at 05:19:11 PM EST
    Per the recently released grand jury transcipts, it's more than obvious that her brother David Greenglass perjured himself significantly when seeking to implicate her in the atomic espionage scheme undertaken by him and Ethel's husband Julius.

    Further, it looks quite likely that the federal prosecutors suborned that perjury or at the very least countenanced it, and that Greenglass's wife Ruth was actually guilty of the crime for which Ethel was ultimately framed and convicted. And a ton of brickbats should be hurled the way of Federal Judge Irving Kaufman, who likely knew that perjury was being committed by Greenglass at trial yet let it stand, and then sentenced Ethel to death based in large part upon her brother's perjured testimony.

    And while he was not formally executed, Leo Frank was more than likely innocent of the crime for which he was ultimately lynched by a mob led by many of Marrieta, GA's leading citizens in August 1915.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Do check it out if you have (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:09:01 AM EST
    not heard about his case. If it could happen to him without a shred of real proof, I have no doubt there are many many more. Police and prosecutors  in communities whipped up  to a frenzy over a heinous crime have enormous  temptation to bend ethics to clear a case, and juries will convict easily.

    Parent
    World's Loneliest Elephant dies in Japan (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Mr Natural on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:51:28 PM EST
    After decades confined alone in the Zoo Industry equivalent of an ADX Florence cell, Hanako the elephant died at Tokyo's Inokashira Park Zoo at the age of 69.


    So, so sad. (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by sallywally on Sat May 28, 2016 at 09:13:26 AM EST
    The lawsuit (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:11:08 PM EST
    he filed in California is so completely stupid and it reeks of desperation. From the behavior of his campaign I'm guessing the polls showing a wide lead by Hillary are likely more of what he's seeing in his own polls.

    re California (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by ruffian on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:37:28 PM EST
    I've always had doubts about Bernie's potential for success there. Yes, it is  a liberal state, but it has been liberal for so long that it is a very establishment liberal state. In many ways he does better in the conservative states that have pockets of liberals.

    A few weeks ago I said there was no way he would win CA - in recent dyas it seems more up for grabs, but the polls are all over the place so it is hard to tell.

    Picking a fight with Barbara Boxer does not seem very smart to me.

    Parent

    The demographics (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 02:13:49 PM EST
    are not favorable to Bernie and he's been unable to change that since the beginning. I miss BTD doing his demographic analysis for sure.

    Bernie's campaign acts like the entire state is Berkeley. Oddly enough so does the GOP.

    Parent

    Boxer (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:46:55 PM EST
    Had one of the best debate reactions.

    Meh
    It would be fun to watch.

    Exactly.

    Someone said it would be the Super Bowl of crazy.  Yeah.  Probably.

    I'm still trying to figure out how, as every talking head has been telling me,  that two crazy guys screaming at each other in a stadium full of screaming morons is "bad" for Hillary.

    Natural-
    1" is the new "5"

    I did wonder if maybe the order was being misunderstood.

    Parent

    That said (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:52:58 PM EST
    I do think there is a backlash brewing against Sanders.  This ridiculous lawsuit is just the latest installment.

    From that link in the other thread the last line was "Sanders has not issued a statement on the matter"
    No kidding.

    Parent

    Captain, (none / 0) (#12)
    by KeysDan on Fri May 27, 2016 at 01:10:30 PM EST
    you intuit well on these matters, requiring me to re-think this debate.  Firstly, from the Republican line-ups  we saw that Trump has no policies, let alone, details, to debate. He used bluster and oafish behaviors as detractors--his polls, his greatness, including his anatomy, how everyone loves him despite his hatred for them, often expressed.   As the one-eyed man in the land of the blind, he was king.

    Sanders has policies, but they are sketchy and detail-free.  It would be the battle of the platitudes at a high decibel level.  If Sanders uses real attacks on Trump, including his own words, Trump will lie and deny that he said what he said.  This will stymie Sanders to the point of being a reddened-faced stroke candidate.  And, the focus will go there.

    Everyone knows that government is not Trump's field, so they expect nothing and he is prepared to deliver same.  Sanders has a few ideas, that some think are new, easy for Trump to crank out old Commie pinko nostalgia from the wingnuts.

    Of course, no matter what, Trump will be declared the winner by the media.  A good show, but who needs it,  most have Netflix for that.

    But, if it really hurts both of them, I am in favor.

    Parent

    I'm not so sure about the (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 01:28:17 PM EST
    Media declaring Trump the winner.  They do love them some Bernie.  I expect they would be very torn.   Just yesterday Tweety was explaining how it would be Bernie who was all but certainly declared the winner.  I can't really remember why and who cares anyway.  I think you are right.  If there was a winner it would be Hillary for not being there.

    Natural- (trying to consolidate comments here)
    I was very intrigued by Trump-ulation so I googled and found and explanation of why Trump won the primary on a site appropriately called "now the end begins"

    GOD IS PREPARING TO SHAKE THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD, AND I BELIEVE HE IS GOING TO USE DONALD TRUMP TO DO IT.

    For those of you who think I'm crazy, consider the following:

    God raised up the unGodly King Nebuchadnezzar to shake and enslave Israel for 70 years, and He used the unGodly King Cyrus to allow construction of a new Jewish Temple. He allowed the unGodly Pharaoh to enslave His people the Hebrews for over 400 years, and He allowed the Roman emperor Titus to burn Israel to the ground in 70 AD. Furthermore, God allowed the demonic Adolf Hitler to create the Holocaust in order that Israel might be regathered in 1948 according to prophecy in the last days.

    So to those of you who say that "God would never use a man like Donald Trump" say that in violation of how God has already revealed Himself to be with the rulers of nations. Over the past 6 months, Donald Trump has beat every single opponent presented to him, and by whopping margins. Some of those he beat are consummate, powerful politicians who know how the game is played. Yet, one by one, they all fell before Trump.

    As savvy as he is, you would be in grave error to credit Trump with the victory. It is God who sets up the kings of this world, not man. The global shaking is coming...

    LINK

    Parent

    Good grief (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 27, 2016 at 05:13:02 PM EST
    Do you actually surf the 'net and read such? Now I have a much better of understanding you.

    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 02:16:14 PM EST
    there really is a silent majority and a debate like that might prove it :).

    Also might prove one of my theories that this election is going fall along the fault lines of crazy/not crazy.

    Parent

    CNN (none / 0) (#26)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:24:05 PM EST
    reporting that Trump calls off debate.

    Parent
    Sanders (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:39:15 PM EST
    got played and so did the media. Trump never was going to debate Bernie. He's talking about how DWS has "denied" Bernie the nomination and then says he's not going to debate the "second place finisher". I have no idea whoever in Bernie's campaign thought tangling with Trump was a good idea but it was a poor decision. Bernie got dirty and the pig liked it.

    Parent
    I dont know what all that means (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:45:05 PM EST
    But if Trump did call it off it was because he was afraid.   I was right and Maddow was wrong.  Trump had everything to lose and Bernie (and the democrats) had nothing to lose.  

    Bernie did not get "played".   Donald stepped in it.  Now he looks like a sniveling coward for being afraid to debate an octogenarian socialist.

    Parent

    This is awsum (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:56:05 PM EST
    POLITICS  MAY 27 2016, 4:18 PM ET
    Trump Now Says Debate With Sanders Would Be 'Inappropriate'

    Pfft
    And if there's one thing we know about Donald he is never inappropriate.

    Parent

    Live Bernie (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:58:13 PM EST
    "I hope he changes his mind.  Again.   He changes his mind a lot.  Trump is a big tough guy, well Mr Trump, waddya afraid of?"

    Awsum

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:01:26 PM EST
    if you read Trump's statement it's about how he doesn't see the need to debate the "second place finisher" so it doesn't come off as being scared of Bernie at all. It comes off as why bother debating with a "LOSER". However he said he would debate Hillary. We'll see if he actually does debate her or not.

    Parent
    And you believe this (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:03:47 PM EST
    Why?

    No one else does

    Parent

    DailyNews (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:13:29 PM EST
    Donald Trump backs down on Bernie Sanders debate challenge after saying he'd `love to debate' Hillary Clinton's Democratic primary opponent

    LINK

    (Sanders fries chicken Donald 10m debate flip flop)

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:23:43 PM EST
    you've got the Hill is simply saying Trump won't debate Bernie. NBC says Trump says it's "inappropriate". Does anyone actually believe he's afraid to debate Bernie? I mean he actually did those stupid GOP primary debates. It's not like Bernie is going to get specific on anything like Trump.

    Parent
    Unbelievable (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:26:10 PM EST
    So
    Why do you think he said over and over that he would LOVE to debate Bernie?

    Parent
    Time (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:28:44 PM EST
    says it was a win win for both of them because it's all the news talked about for a few days. Okay. I would agree with that.

    Parent
    This (none / 0) (#50)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 27, 2016 at 05:14:02 PM EST
    will be forgotten in a week or two, although I expect Bernie to play the "Trump is afraid of me card" possibly until the end.

    I don't really know how serious Trump was but I doubt he is afraid of Bernie. IMO he has nothing to gain from a debate and I think his handlers and his party supporters also see that and were  able to talk him down.

    That being said, I think Trump will not stand for being labeled a coward and the  game will be on. Bernie of course has nothing to lose and might go full Warren on him ala Donald is a "small, insecure money-grubber."

    Parent

    We will agree to disagree (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 05:21:39 PM EST
    Just reading around about this.  C&L has a gushing post about Maddows screed last night.   Shorter Maddow, she didn't like the idea.  At all.  At the very end of this C&L post there is this gem-

    Maddow later compared the idea to President Obama debating Newt Gingrich in 2012, and admonished Sanders for ignoring his real opponent in the Democratic primary.

    Indeed.  God forbid Bernie should take his "eye off the ball" and take a day off from bashing Hillary to bash Trump.

    Parent

    And yes (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 05:24:37 PM EST
    About the full Warren part.  This episode makes me feel better about unification

    Parent
    Fwiw (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:29:15 PM EST
    The MSNBC crew is in complete agreement it was a total chicken sh!t moment.  It so obvious it's laughable.  And I'm amazed that you are do blinded by your hate for Bernie that you can't admit it.

    Parent
    Howdy, FWIW, (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by NYShooter on Fri May 27, 2016 at 05:28:39 PM EST
    on this topic, you've got my respect.(not that you want, or need it)

    I'm just glad you've gotten a taste of what it's like "debating" someone who rejects reality, even when it's standing up in broad daylight, and punching you in the face.

    Now, maybe you can understand why I don't participate any more. You can be an advocate for someone without believing anyone who has a different point of view is being an idiot.

    Parent

    Ha (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 05:31:34 PM EST
    Actually I remember 2008 very well.

    And of course I want it.

    Parent

    Of course (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:11:37 PM EST
    MSNBC would say that if it's Trump vs. Bernie. If it were Trump vs. Hillary it would probably be a different story.

    I don't hate Bernie. I'm just tired of him but I do very much dislike the bros.

    Parent

    The Bernie Bros (none / 0) (#45)
    by KeysDan on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:34:15 PM EST
    will be outraged. Trump insulting Bernie, and all.  May make them mad at Trump, and finding out, to their dismay, that Trump lies like a rug (pun intended). Trump is a fraidy cat.

     May distract the Bros from their earlier rage that Mrs. Clinton declined another debate with Bernie and her being distrustful because of the way she emailed. And, did not,at least, copy and file her government business emails in a timely manner, rather than giving up, essentially,  the lot of them when she did.

    Parent

    Yes! (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:36:39 PM EST
    This is only good for the Sanders supporters flirting with a Trump vote

    Parent
    Oh, and how is (none / 0) (#47)
    by KeysDan on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:42:11 PM EST
    Trump going to deal with Putin?

    Parent
    lol. Flabbo - a - Mano (none / 0) (#61)
    by Mr Natural on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:10:49 PM EST
    You know you could've squeezed in (none / 0) (#139)
    by jondee on Sat May 28, 2016 at 11:58:52 AM EST
    a couple more "Bros" into that post with a little more effort, Dan.

    Parent
    Nah, no extra effort needed, (none / 0) (#144)
    by KeysDan on Sat May 28, 2016 at 12:55:24 PM EST
    it would have been effortless.  But, take license to edit,if you think "Bros" should be supplanted with "supporters."  I prefer to indicate the fringe, but, it may be that it has become all one.

    Parent
    Well, to paraphrase Rumi (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by jondee on Sat May 28, 2016 at 01:01:48 PM EST
    there's a mirroring-aspect to a lot people's analysis: if an ape looks in, no man looks out. Bro.

    Parent
    Ignore the noise (none / 0) (#9)
    by CoralGables on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:54:20 PM EST
    RCP average has Clinton +8
    538 weighted average has Clinton +14

    But it will be over before the polls close in California so a double digit Clinton win (or a double digit Sanders win) won't make a difference.

    Parent

    Nate Silver at 538.com says that .... (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 27, 2016 at 05:56:40 PM EST
    ... Mrs. Clinton has a 97% of winning California. Further, he states the obvious, which unfortunately needs to be repeated again and again, that the system isn't rigged against Bernie Sanders but rather, he's losing because more Democrats want Hillary Clinton to be our party's nominee:

    "  

    Parent

    Just minutes ago (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:56:56 PM EST
    Sanders campaign manager said they are going to the convention to make as much trouble as possible no matter what.  

    Parent
    He's hoping to avoid the unemployment line (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by CoralGables on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    for a couple more months

    Parent
    And Jane (none / 0) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 02:18:00 PM EST
    the other day announced that Bernie was going back to the senate on June 8th and then quickly turned around and realized what she had said and started talking about the voting that still has to go forward.

    2 months from now Weaver is going to start to look like those Japanese soldiers that never realized WW2 was over.

    Parent

    lol. It ain't over - for Weaver - (none / 0) (#64)
    by Mr Natural on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:13:35 PM EST
    until the last check is cashed.  

    What did Robot Porter say the campaign manager's cut was? 5 or 10% off the top.

    Parent

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:25:56 PM EST
    probably right. Where is Robot these days I wonder?

    Parent
    The funny thing is (none / 0) (#2)
    by jbindc on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:25:39 PM EST
    The judge has set the hearing date for August - after the primary and after the convention.  Shows you what he thinks of the merits.

    Parent
    Won't matter (none / 0) (#4)
    by CoralGables on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:35:38 PM EST
    If Sanders wins California 100% to 0% he will still lose the nomination.

    Parent
    Yes, Sanders would lose the nomination, (none / 0) (#15)
    by caseyOR on Fri May 27, 2016 at 01:34:19 PM EST
    but a win in California would be a much better lead-in to the convention for Clinton than a loss in California.

    A Clinton win, and the bigger the better, in California would also take whatever wind there is remaining out of Sanders' sails. And, perhaps, diminish any leverage he might take to the convention.

    Parent

    There is no wind in the Sanders' sails (none / 0) (#16)
    by CoralGables on Fri May 27, 2016 at 01:50:01 PM EST
    that ship has floundered

    Parent
    Is that "floundered" or (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Peter G on Fri May 27, 2016 at 02:25:59 PM EST
    "foundered"? I'm always getting confused on that one.

    Parent
    I meant floundered (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by CoralGables on Fri May 27, 2016 at 02:49:43 PM EST
    but you could be right and that ship may have foundered.

    Parent
    To flounder is to struggle haplessly with ... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 27, 2016 at 02:54:15 PM EST
    ... a strong likelihood of failure, whereas to founder is to 1. sink below the surface of the water; 2. to collapse and fail absolutely; or 3. if used in reference to a horse, to stumble badly and come up lame.

    Parent
    Lame (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:16:31 PM EST
    Definitely lame

    Parent
    Some (none / 0) (#100)
    by Nemi on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:22:52 AM EST
    of the e-mail correspondence [PDF] leading up to that decision.

    Parent
    Our party's state convention ... (none / 0) (#3)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 27, 2016 at 12:34:05 PM EST
    ... opens this afternoon in Honolulu at the Sheraton Waikiki hotel. We're flying over there at noon. Should be interesting.

    Finally, they're calling our flight. (none / 0) (#59)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:00:34 PM EST
    I fly Hawaiian Airlines an average of five times a month, and it's the leading carrier in one-time departure and arrivals. Today is the first flight I've been on this year that's late.

    Parent
    Next up (none / 0) (#14)
    by jbindc on Fri May 27, 2016 at 01:32:49 PM EST
    Big sky country. (none / 0) (#27)
    by fishcamp on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:29:50 PM EST
    Montana (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri May 27, 2016 at 03:57:04 PM EST
    The Libertarian nominating convention (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:18:29 PM EST
    Is happening this weekend.  Gary Johnson is on right now pushing Weld as a VP.

    (As a republican) (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 04:24:34 PM EST
    Are you comfortable being spoiler?

    Absolutely.

    Parent

    Reported from this event (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 05:40:48 PM EST
    The Koch brothers may be in play to support a libertarian candidate.

    Parent
    Omg (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 05:42:06 PM EST
    I really like hating the Kochs.   What if they actually do something good?

    Parent
    The David H. Koch Charitable Foundation ... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:12:54 PM EST
    ... is a big underwriter of the PBS series NOVA, and provides a lot of funding for medical research at Memorial Sloan Kettering and MD Anderson. It's also a big supporter of the arts.

    I don't care for the man's politics, but his record of philanthropy is actually quite admirable, and there appears to be a firewall between his charitable interests and his political orientation.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Really? (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:20:06 PM EST
    I ain't never seen no PBS

    Parent
    Has anyone else noticed (none / 0) (#132)
    by jondee on Sat May 28, 2016 at 10:40:30 AM EST
    the surprising lack of programs about Global Warming on PBS?

    Parent
    No, I haven't. (none / 0) (#135)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat May 28, 2016 at 11:33:12 AM EST
    But being that I'm a regular PBS viewer (and donor) myself, I've just now noticed that for your part, you and others who've lately been saying that simply haven't been watching PBS or paying attention. NOVA and Frontline have done numerous shows on the subject over the years, addressing matters from changing weather patterns to the alarming meltdown of Greenland's massive ice sheet and the growing longterm implications of megastorms such as Hurricane Sandy. Further, there are numerous articles about global warming on the PBS website.

    Parent
    Over the years.. (none / 0) (#138)
    by jondee on Sat May 28, 2016 at 11:51:23 AM EST
    How many programs spread out over how long a period of time?

    And kudos for being a PBS watcher and supporter, though I don't know how you squeeze it in while spending so much time down in the trenches on the very front lines of the battle to make the U.S safe for liberal democracy

    Parent

    Do you have any idea the amount of work that takes? Of course not, because it's just so much easier for you to continue demagoguing the issue, rather than consider such matters and perhaps admit that you might possibly be wrong.

    Why don't you get off your butt, put your money where your big mouth is, and actually go out there and work for those liberal candidates about whom you claim to care so much, rather than spew here like a sick dog's a$$ at everyone who says something that doesn't agree with you? As it stands at present, you're all meringue and no filling.

    Those that can, do. Those who won't, bi+ch.

    Parent

    Did you (none / 0) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:07:09 PM EST
    know that one of the Koch's ran on the Libertarian ticket against Ronald Reagan in 1980?

    Parent
    I actually did know that (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:37:25 PM EST
    I think Donald has a very big problem that has nothing to do with women or Hispanics or changing demographics or hair care products.

    I believe Donalds biggest problem is the silent conservative republican establishment.  Who lucky for them have most of the money in the world.  

    Like the Kochs for example.  They and many others may never say do in an interview but they will, I think, do almost - and spend almost - anything to keep him from the levers of power.

    There will be vast sums of money available to the libertarians (and the greens and the rentistodamnhighs and whoever else).  Even Hillary Clinton in the unlikely event she needs it.   Thanks to our ridiculous campaign finance laws no one will ever know.

    Digby via atrios-

    It should be obvious by this time that Trump has absolutely no idea what he's doing and is making it up as he goes along. Paul Manafort is experienced at dealing with this sort of character, and seems quite comfortable doing it. But the campaign is a mess and that's because the candidate is a vainglorious buffoon who has no clue what he's doing and thinks he's a genius. I wouldn't bet on Manafort lasting through the duration.

    I repeat, cause it's worth repeating and bolding: "But the campaign is a mess and that's because the candidate is a vainglorious buffoon who has no clue what he's doing and thinks he's a genius.

    We are not the only ones who know this.

    Parent

    well (none / 0) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 07:00:13 PM EST
    the Kochs for one have already announced that they will not be supporting Donald. And yes, there are probably more and more that are going to decline to donate although Sheldon Addleson said he would front 100 million.

    And I have seen that same story line floating around in a couple of places about how you cannot tell Donald what he is doing wrong in a campaign mostly because pretty much nobody has ever told him what to do. He's always been the boss and did what he wanted anyway.

    Parent

    The Kocks may not be supporting Trump... (none / 0) (#87)
    by desertswine on Fri May 27, 2016 at 11:33:58 PM EST
    but Pharma-Bro is!  It's just one more important endorsement for the Donald.

    Parent
    PharmaBro (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:14:54 AM EST
    Phyllis Schafley
    Hulk Hogan
    Steven Baldwin
    Joe Arpaio
    Loretta (I caint evun pernounce Dukakis) Lynn
    Wayne Newton
    Mike Tyson
    Willie Robertson

    What a brain trust.  Get them all in one room and it would smell like burning batteries.

    Parent

    Loretta Lynn's strangest song title: (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Mr Natural on Sat May 28, 2016 at 12:13:33 PM EST
    Speaking of endorsements tho (none / 0) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:32:59 AM EST
    How about that Paul Ryan?  Dudes the Speaker of the House.  What if he doesn't endorse Donald?

    He may show himself, once again, to be the smartest republican around.  (The healthiest leper,  the sanest bi-polar schizophrenic, etc.). But seriously.  I thought he would definitely be on board by now.  IMO if he hold out its because the "conservative republican establishment" I was talking about upthread is even more active that I thought.  And he is talking to them.

    But I expect he will endorse.  ( but what if he doesn't!)

    Parent

    I (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by FlJoe on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:11:44 AM EST
    think Ryan is being cagey, if and when Trump loses Ryan should be the undisputed leader of the Republican party. The further away he is from a possible Trump trainwreck in fall, the better positioned he will be to rebuild the GOP in his image.

    Parent
    And if (none / 0) (#114)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:17:14 AM EST
    Trump wins,

    Push what you can of his agenda.

    Eventually, almost all Republicans will line up behind Trump

    Only way to have some influence, in the cabinet, VP slot.

    Better than to be out in the cold

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:21:07 AM EST
    I expect Ryan's calculation if he doesn't endorse is that Donald won't win.

    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#122)
    by FlJoe on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:40:57 AM EST
    if Ryan perceives the race to be close he will have to endorse rather than risk being blamed for a close loss, if he perceives a blowout he will demur.

    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:53:24 AM EST
    He won't be able to wait that long.   No one is going to know what you say for months.

    Parent
    Anyway (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:56:14 AM EST
    As I said, I have always expected him to endorse.  My question was, what if he doesn't.

    It would be a very big deal.

    Parent

    You say cagey (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:18:59 AM EST
    I would say smart.  And honestly pretty courageous.  A speaker of the house refusing to endorse the party's nominee would be pretty freakin stunning.   Can you site the last time?

    Parent
    Oh (none / 0) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:30:33 AM EST
    And Chairman of the nominating convention.  Refusing to endorse the nominee.

    Parent
    Read this a coulee of days ago (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:09:04 AM EST

    (Yuval Levin) has been called an "intellectual prodigy" and is one of the most influential thinkers and writers in conservative Republican politics and is a advisor to Paul Ryan.

    --

     Do you think that at some point -- as you have watched him sort of do this dance with Donald Trump -- do you think at some point he is going to have to embrace Donald Trump completely and endorse him? How do you see that playing out?

    Well, it doesn't seem like he is inclined to embrace him completely and endorse him. I think he may have to vote for him, looking at the options he has and the alternatives he has and the obligations he has as the leader of the party in Congress, maybe the leader of the party in general. Ryan is resisting that because he is a conservative and Donald Trump in a lot of ways is really making a mockery of what conservatives throughout Paul Ryan's lifetime and mine have been trying to work for. It's not hard to see why it's hard for him. But he also faces intense pressures that someone like me who just writes his opinion for a living just cannot possibly fathom.

    You said he will have to vote for him probably. Does that mean an endorsement?

    I don't know how it ends up being worded. But when you say you are going to vote for someone, that is probably an endorsement. It's hard to say. Look, Ryan has certainly resisted that, and I think that is to his great credit, and so far he has managed to do it. But, obviously, he is going to be under intense pressure. He is speaker of the House; he is going to be the chairman of the Republican convention most likely. He is in a tough spot if he doesn't want to support the party's nominee.



    Parent
    As I've wondered before, is Bernie (none / 0) (#65)
    by Green26 on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:15:34 PM EST
    staying in race because he wants to be still in the race if Hillary has to exit, or falters big-time, due to the emails or something similar?

    See this NY Times article entitled: "Die-Hard Bernie Sanders Backers See F.B.I. as Answer to Their Prayers"

    Article.

    More Clinton email stuff (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Green26 on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:32:26 PM EST
    "Since her use of a private email server was made public last year, ... Clinton has insisted she turned over all work-related emails to the State Department to be released to the public."

    "But after 14 months of public scrutiny and the release of tens of thousands of emails, an agency watchdog's discovery of at least three previously undisclosed emails has renewed concerns that Clinton was not completely forthcoming when she turned over ... emails."

    "The three messages include Clinton's own explanation of why she wanted her emails kept private: In a November 2010 email, Clinton worried that her personal messages could become accessible to outsiders. The messages appear to have been found among electronic files of four former top Clinton State Department aides."

    "Two other messages a year later divulged possible security weaknesses in the home email system she used while secretary of state."

    ABC/AP article.

    Parent

    At this point (none / 0) (#67)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:23:49 PM EST
    Even if the event that shall not be named occurs,

    I see Biden parachuting in.

    It would not make for a pretty convention

    The media would eat it up

    But I always thought that was a big impetuous for The Bern to stay in

    If he was declared out, it would easier for Establishment Dem's to parachute someone in

    Parent

    anyone watched Season 2 of Bloodline yet? (none / 0) (#71)
    by ruffian on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:51:24 PM EST
    getting ready to dive in...will report back!

    No (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 06:56:33 PM EST
    But I am so completely OVER Paige and her whining.  OMG.  

    You killed him

    But he was going to rape and murder you.

    But....you killed himmmmm....

    Parent

    Yeah, it is time for Gabriel to stage an (none / 0) (#88)
    by ruffian on Sat May 28, 2016 at 12:48:36 AM EST
    intervention. She is becoming a good little spy though, picking up info from Matthew. Instead of whining at her mom, she should be asking for some self defense tips.

    I hadn't realized the new episodes of Bloodline were just released today. Watched the first 3 - getting confused with all the drug dealing characters. Not liking it as much as the first season. They aren't doing the flash-forward thing this time. I thought that made it more interesting.There are flashbacks though so Danny is still in the show. The young actor that pays his son is pretty good - he studied his Ben Mendelsohn tapes. Very believable as his son.

    Parent

    I looked for it (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 07:01:01 PM EST
    the other day and I guess it had not been released yet or rather the new season.

    Parent
    Did not know it was out (none / 0) (#92)
    by Suisser1 on Sat May 28, 2016 at 06:13:55 AM EST
    Thanks for to tip. Currently watching "Signal" with my kid.  it's a Korean cop show with some time warping twists. My last summer before my kid heads off to college so any show she wants. That said, it's jam packed and pretty fun.

    Parent
    But I've Vacationed at The Moorings (none / 0) (#157)
    by Michael Masinter on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:03:56 PM EST
    Before it became too expensive for my blood, The Moorings had the best place to vacation in the Keys. We stayed there several times over the years, but all before Bloodlines started.

    Parent
    And the Trump supporter (none / 0) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 07:52:57 PM EST
    Imitating the look of Hulk Hogan goes down in San Diego, 5 police officers snuck up from behind and took him down as he made moves to storm the line of riot gear cops. I'm impressed, nobody was hurt, police officers displaying good training.

    I did just recently find out that Donald Trump is a member of the WWF and has wrestled in the WWF ring ;). But of course

    Well, it happened (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 08:17:06 PM EST
    That Sanders campaign has officially gone around the bend.  Maddow is giving it rather brutal coverage right now.  Stuff supposed to be up on her blog soon.

    They have sent a letter demanding Barney Frank and others be removed from their positions at the convention or they wil blow it up.   Grind it to a halt.  Prevent them from nominating anyone.  

    Maddow is saying they got this letter exclusively.  I can't find a link.  

    She doesn't stop there.  Discussing threats and harassment of officials I'm Wyoming.  Slashed tires.  Home addresses posted on Facebook.

    They have lost it.   And it's going to blow up in their face.


    It's up (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 08:19:04 PM EST
    Wow - just read that (none / 0) (#89)
    by ruffian on Sat May 28, 2016 at 01:04:17 AM EST
    Now he's going after Barney Frank? Does he really expect to win people over with that? If Barney Frank had chosen to run no one would have been talking about Bernie Sanders for the last year.

    Parent
    Next up (none / 0) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 06:49:57 AM EST
    Demanding Paul Krugman be fired.  

    Or they will all hold their breath till they turn blue.

    Parent

    Yes, it seems like a breaking point (none / 0) (#78)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 08:21:48 PM EST
    Has been reached all over. I have been unable to read or watch much the past few days but see and read tonight it's done. Patience for the Bernie approach exhausted all over.

    Parent
    You really have to read the letter (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 08:24:29 PM EST
    Then there is the stupid SanFran lawsuit.  

    Parent
    I just finished it (none / 0) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 08:30:13 PM EST
    This is not how Democrats go to convention.

    I wonder if Kos saw this letter earlier than the masses. His site is riled to the hilt because of some of his Sanders remarks today.

    I had hoped it was possible that Sanders wouldn't set himself on fire, but he doesn't care what I hoped for.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 08:37:18 PM EST
    I was scanning the recommended earlier.   Seems a bit.....tense.

    Why I'm leaving KOS

    KOS doesn't speak for me

    Etc

    Parent

    It was that same way (none / 0) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 08:50:10 PM EST
    a few days ago after he was posting something about why Bernie lost or something and then after he went after Bernie's behavior after NV that ticked a lot of them off. It's kind of like for a long time though that they thought the could blog Bernie into winning the nomination.

    Parent
    I saw Kos really do his best (none / 0) (#85)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 09:53:15 PM EST
    To give Sanders supporters at the very least a space. He hasn't banned them from their campaigning as he originally planned, and actually, I was impressed with his patience.

    But the conversation has evolved, and as for Kos personally, stick a fork in him he is done. The site has made it so obvious that it isn't an extension of Kos. But when he disagrees with a group they still write diaries to him like he's an abusive parent.

    The fun and games with those Berning is over though. I think it's going to be nothing but ugly for them at Orange. Time to evolve or move along.

    Parent

    Maybe they will get together (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:01:30 AM EST
    With the former TLs and make themselves a nice echo chamber.    The human pretzels created by defending his recent actions and behavior should be interesting.

    Parent
    Just curious (none / 0) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:10:42 AM EST
    but where did they go? Reddit?

    Parent
    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#106)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:47:22 AM EST
    Echo chamber????

    Parent
    I suppose you are inferring "something" (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:53:18 AM EST
    So then

    Why are you here?

    Parent

    Echo Chambers (none / 0) (#112)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:13:25 AM EST
    Are boring, and certainly creates no opportunity for intellectual growth

    Diversity of thought is more important , to me,

    Than any other physical diversities so often clamored for.

    Which makes today's college campus's so odd,

    There is no toleration for diversity of thought

    Parent

    Uh-huh (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:16:19 AM EST
    So why are you HERE?  Exchanging laughable email comments with green or ppj?

    Parent
    I am not (none / 0) (#117)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:25:13 AM EST
    In my intellectual echo chamber.

    You left out McBain, I agree with some of his posts regarding crime, Title IX.

    And others. I have no expectations of agreeing with everything one person posts, but there are some, probably 10 or so, maybe less, that I can find some accord with in diverse topics.

    I find that more interesting than sitting in a echo chamber of 100, with all shouting out the same refrain

    Parent

    So then what was your point here (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:28:40 AM EST
    Exactly

    106)
    Hmmmm

    by TrevorBolder on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:47:22 AM EST
    Echo chamber????

    Parent | Reply to This |  1  2  3  4  5



    Parent
    Just found it ironic (none / 0) (#120)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:30:39 AM EST
    Chase away the Bernie supporters ,

    Hoping they will be happy in their echo chamber

    Creates the very same universe for the Hillary supporters

    Parent

    You find it ironic (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:33:29 AM EST
    Others find it laughable.   You just made my point.  

    You're welcome.

    Parent

    Once upon a time we had (none / 0) (#141)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 28, 2016 at 12:16:28 PM EST
    quite a diverse group and discussed a variety of things.

    Now, as TB mentions about college campuses, intellectual differences of any type are attacked by at least one of several. You are definitely in that group.

    That makes an Echo Chamber and flies in the face of what liberalism is supposed to be about.

    You make the conservative's point.

    Parent

    That's some mighty thin gruel (none / 0) (#143)
    by jondee on Sat May 28, 2016 at 12:29:40 PM EST
    coming from an admitted fan of the "diverse" world of discourse of conservative talk radio and Fox News..

    Once upon a time..I remember a few of the most thoughtful well-informed posters here saying, in reference to a certain long-winded right wing gadfly, "either he goes, or I go" and then, a short time later, departing the scene never to be heard from again.

    Parent

    Seriously (none / 0) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 12:58:19 PM EST
    The irony meter just cracked.  The troll that that everyone despises and has hoped and prayed for years would be banned whining about this being an echo chamber.

    Doesn't get better

    Parent

    Thanks for proving my point (none / 0) (#148)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 28, 2016 at 02:55:06 PM EST
    You couldn't have done it better.

    Parent
    Well said Jim (none / 0) (#149)
    by McBain on Sat May 28, 2016 at 03:09:09 PM EST
    This is one of the reasons I've become more conservative over the years.  I forgot who it was but several months ago someone in here told me I should leave TL because TL is for liberal opinions only.  How exactly is that being liberal?

    Parent
    You know (none / 0) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:14:59 AM EST
    what's really irritating? Compare his behavior 8 years ago to now. There was no be nice or don't spike the football and frankly things were a lot worse with 40% of Hillary voters saying they were not going to vote for Obama. It was like a pack of hyenas. Though I have to say once Bernie kicked off his campaign it was the full on return of the bros before hos. My guess is Bernie hired the ex-Obama people and hey, those same memes worked before so let's do it again.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:27:12 AM EST
    I think most of the Obama people are working for Hillary.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:32:56 AM EST
    some of them are but the Revolution Messaging people are working for Bernie.

    Parent
    I agree that things seemed worse 8 yrs ago (none / 0) (#127)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 09:46:57 AM EST
    And Markos was less evolved. There has been a learning curve for everyone and the internet. I think he didn't want to incite a big splintering like 2008. But I agree with Howdy, and most of the Obama crew is working for Hillary.

    Parent
    It frankly (none / 0) (#128)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 28, 2016 at 09:59:21 AM EST
    seems to be a revelation to him what the thinking of some of his own posters have been thinking and/or saying.

    Parent
    I wonder (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 27, 2016 at 08:52:52 PM EST
    if anybody has informed Bernie that he can't sue his way to being the nominee. That apparently seems to be the newest "strategy".

    I'm just beyond over this nonsense.

    Parent

    I know (none / 0) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 27, 2016 at 09:55:39 PM EST
    I googled Sanders lawsuits. Who knew?

    Parent
    Funny (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:21:57 AM EST
    At the beginning of the season everyone said Trump would be the lawsuit candidate.

    Parent
    He might (none / 0) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:25:13 AM EST
    yet be when it comes to the general election. So far as the GOP goes it seems threats seem to be effective enough.

    Parent
    Apparently (none / 0) (#84)
    by jbindc on Fri May 27, 2016 at 09:05:25 PM EST
    Bernie is on Maher right now and Maher is propping him up and bashing Hillary.

    Yes, they were deeply troubled by the email (none / 0) (#90)
    by ruffian on Sat May 28, 2016 at 01:06:15 AM EST
    And Bill Clinton is just like Bill Cosby - or close enough that Maher feels people will get confused. What?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#91)
    by jbindc on Sat May 28, 2016 at 05:29:54 AM EST
    Maher is an offensive blowhard anyway.  The fact that he's good buddies with Ann "Trump has Mandarins voting for him" Coulter should be enough for any thinking person not to take him seriously.

    Parent
    Take him seriously? (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 06:54:25 AM EST
    He's a comedian.  I don't take him or Charles Pierce or lots of others I find entertaining "seriously"

    I record the show and usually watch the openning monologue and New Rules.  Sometimes the little picture comedy segment in the middle.  But I usually can't take the rest of the show.  Well, not do much I can't take it as I have better things to do.

    But I love Bill Maher.

    Parent

    Yes, I, too, am (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by KeysDan on Sat May 28, 2016 at 09:01:30 AM EST
    a fan of Bill Maher. However, his sho, last night, was among his worst.  Bernie Sanders was the best part,which gives an indication of the whole,  but the panel was just awful.

      A Trump surrogate, complete with the uniform of blue suit and red tie, was thug-like, just talked over everyone and keep it loud. Melissa Harris Perry had a makeover look, and seemed to be auditioning while in Hollywood for a role in a possible remake of "Scream."

     She tended to agree more with the Trump guy, and spouted inane remarks continuously.  The third guy from the Daily Beast might have had something to say, but he never got a word in edge-wise.   Maher lost control of his panel, but did get to hammer now and again on his mostly wrong analysis of the email report.  When Maher asked Bernie how he would deal with Trump, who lies, denies, makes everything up, and calls names, Bernie admitted he did not know.  Boy, that would have been quite a debate, if it went forward.

    Parent

    I can't watch him with his bromance (none / 0) (#131)
    by sallywally on Sat May 28, 2016 at 10:39:51 AM EST
    with Bernie.

    Parent
    Bill Maher's audiences (none / 0) (#137)
    by KeysDan on Sat May 28, 2016 at 11:45:26 AM EST
    are, in large measure, young.  And, the audience last night, if any indication, was loudly in Bernie's corner, and, even more so, not in Hillary's corner.  On previous shows of late, Bill recognized that Mrs. Clinton would be the nominee and started to call for everyone to unite around Hillary, so as to defeat Trump.  

    It was a little surprising, therefore, to observe that Bill was carrying on about Bernie as if Bernie was about to clinch the nomination.

     Maher's interview with Sanders was the softest of soft balls. "I've been trying to get this answer out of everybody who comes on the show, Maher asked Bernie. What is the right strategy to use against Trump?  Obviously, Hillary doesn't have it(to cheers from the audience).

     What would be your strategy? "That is a good question, and I would not be honest if I told you I've figured it out, replied Bernie."  An oops moment, with dead air from the audience.  Of course, Maher does not know that Hillary "does not have it," Thanks to Bernie, she is still fighting in the primary, against Bernie.  

    Another, interchange.  Bill Maher, said, once again, I want to know what you, Bernie, mean by Democratic Socialist. Of course, a lingering question in need of Bernie's answer. While ears perked up, Bill then proceeded to given his understanding...blend capitalism and socialism, Europe, etc.  Bernie, nodded in agreement, without expansion or alteration.

    Parent

    That is a good summary (none / 0) (#152)
    by ruffian on Sat May 28, 2016 at 04:27:18 PM EST
    After some of the more recent shows I thought Maher had turned a corner, but I think the excitement of the campaign moving to California and the email report made him think again that Bernie has a real shot.  I am still sure though that beating Trump is his main priority and after the CA primary he will be focused on that.  He is a comedian, so I would not expect him to not make jokes about Clinton. But, as with Colbert, at least he may stop asking every liberal guest if they are 'feeling the Bern'.

    Parent
    It about the audience (none / 0) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 04:34:53 PM EST
    They are entertainers if they don't have one they are not.

    Parent
    Oh the humanity (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Sat May 28, 2016 at 10:57:31 AM EST
    I kind of reminds me of back when a regular poster here was propping up Romney and relentlessly bashing Obama.

    Parent
    Is this the kind of journalism, (none / 0) (#105)
    by Nemi on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:43:49 AM EST
    well researched, thorough ... long, The fall of Salon.com, we will see ever less examples of in the future? Because it really doesn't seem like neither mainstream nor social media prioritizes this kind of reporting.

    As Joan Wals adds as an afterthought to this:

    The Hyde revelation [alleging that former Republican Rep. Henry Hyde leading the effort to impeach Bill Clinton, had himself a years-long extramarital affair] also served as a success story for Salon's publishing model. The concept of an online magazine had been somewhat of a novelty in 1995, but the impact of the Hyde story was so deafening it changed how people thought about the possibilities of publishing on the web.

    "It taught us that ... the web rewarded quickness, the web rewarded saying something that other people were not saying," Walsh said. "The web also rewarded speed."

    After a beat, she added: "At that time, the web rewarded reporting as well. I used to make the case that it's still like that, but I'm not sure I feel that way anymore."

    Or as former Salon-writer Andrew Leonard says:

    "The low point arrived when my editor G-chatted me with the observation that our traffic figures were lagging that day and ordered me to `publish something within the hour,'" Andrew Leonard, who left Salon in 2014, recalled in a post. "Which, translated into my new reality, meant `Go troll Twitter for something to get mad about -- Uber, or Mark Zuckerberg, or Tea Party Republicans -- and then produce a rant about it.' ... I performed my duty, but not without thinking, `Is this what 25 years as a dedicated reporter have led to?' That's when it dawned on me: I was no longer inventing the future. I was a victim of it. So I quit my job to keep my sanity."

    The rumour of Salon's death has for years been greatly exaggerated ... but maybe not for long anymore?

    In 2005, on Salon's 10th anniversary, Talbot described the mass of media predictions about Salon's impending demise as a "gleeful death watch." Lauerman remembers going-out-of-business stories predicting Salon's closure "going back to 2001."

    So in some ways, Salon has beaten the odds simply by surviving this long. But to others, the true Salon was lost once it stopped publishing the types of stories that once made it so well-regarded.

    And whether Salon survives or not, this is really a shame:

    Some of the high-impact reports, essays and reviews from the site's glory years are lost behind a tangled mess of broken links and deteriorating web pages. Older stories can be nearly impossible to find.


    Anybody (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:57:33 AM EST
    who read Salon back in the 90's can definitely see the decline in their quality of journalism.

    Parent
    Salon began to lose its moorings ... (none / 0) (#136)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat May 28, 2016 at 11:41:33 AM EST
    ... when founder David Talbot stepped aside as editor-in-chief. Nowadays, it's often just a mishmash of left-ish opinions with no coherent theme or center.

    Parent
    Mr. McGuire: "I just want to say one word (none / 0) (#142)
    by Mr Natural on Sat May 28, 2016 at 12:19:11 PM EST
    to you, just one word."

    Benjamin: "Yes, sir."

    Mr. McGuire: "Are you listening?"

    Benjamin: "Yes, I am."

    Mr. McGuire: "Content."

    Parent

    That was arcane (none / 0) (#147)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 01:12:56 PM EST
    But I got it.

    That business about being shocked shocked that he should troll Twitter for something to rant about seemed odd to me.  Thats all Salon has ever seemed to me.  It seemed I remember it nit sucking for maybe a year but then .......

    IMO it's been unreadable for a long long time.

    Parent

    America's 2nd-most self-centered human, (none / 0) (#129)
    by Mr Natural on Sat May 28, 2016 at 10:16:55 AM EST
    I found (none / 0) (#130)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat May 28, 2016 at 10:24:22 AM EST
    This addition to the Trump bandwagon interesting

    A libertarian, Mr. Thiel is a pledged delegate for Donald J. Trump for the 2016 Republican National Convention.

    http://tinyurl.com/jgvtoyb

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    Love to hear Trump's (none / 0) (#133)
    by sallywally on Sat May 28, 2016 at 10:42:12 AM EST
    comments about him.

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    not sure why i bother (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 03:55:38 PM EST
    but for the right wing morons complaining about this being a echo chamber i would like to simply supply the generally under stood definition

    Echo chamber (media)
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    In media, an echo chamber is a situation in which information, ideas, or beliefs are amplified or reinforced by transmission and repetition inside an "enclosed" system, where different or competing views are censored, disallowed, or otherwise underrepresented.

    get that nimrods?  do i need to use smaller words?  maybe?
    where different or competing views are censored, disallowed, or otherwise underrepresented.

     do you get it?

    it if was an echo chamber you would not be whining, in groups fer god sake, because your dumbass views are NOT censored disallowed or god freakin knows underrepresented.

    OK.

    so shut the f&ck up with the pathetic whining and continue your trolling.   because god help us there is nothing to stop you

    As one of the original (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 04:23:04 PM EST
    Spotters of the Trump trend, here at least, I would like to report something new I've been noticing that may cheer you up.  I have seen a real rethinking of the while Trump thing.  Several of the people I first identified as surprising Trump supporters and others who were not surprising are beginning to voice real concern.  

    It's like the shine wore off and the idea of Trump and the nuclear trigger has begun to sink in.  Several family members are rethinking.  And I recently talked to a couple of "liberal" supporters who seem to be beginning to squirm.

    One nephew said something like this today "you know, I thought he would start acting more serious.  And he's just not doing it"

    Ps
    I got a lot of contact with the locals today because my nephew was released from the hospital.  In a big ugly back brace and seriously drugged but whole.  Lot of the extended family around for the homecoming.   Politics was discussed.

    The most surprising (none / 0) (#155)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 28, 2016 at 06:11:18 PM EST
    thing is the liberal supporters I would say squirming now. I guess nothing about Trump made them squirm before.

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    Why ask why (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 28, 2016 at 06:25:29 PM EST
    The art of the deal, (none / 0) (#154)
    by KeysDan on Sat May 28, 2016 at 05:56:14 PM EST
    on Social Security may not wash with the old timers, either.   At the infamous May 12 meeting with Paul Ryan, Trump reportedly said he supports cutting social security, but will lie publicly that he will keep it as is.  Too much of an electoral problem, but he does agree with Ryan's penchant for slashing social security on a moral basis.  Perhaps, that is the real news, Trump works from a moral basis.

    on a "moral" basis? (none / 0) (#160)
    by linea on Sat May 28, 2016 at 09:17:02 PM EST
    don't they mean on a sophmoric basis to usher in the long-awaited Libertarian Utopia? because somehow anarchy doesnt devolve into a mirror of somolia or the congo if everyone carries a paperback copy of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead in the back pocket of their blue jeans?

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    Tramp Tower in Toronto - Debt Default (none / 0) (#158)
    by Menanna on Sat May 28, 2016 at 07:40:43 PM EST
    If you hire the Donald to run your property, look out for trouble! What a great business man!!!
    http://tinyurl.com/hbslvcb

    - from the HuffPost Canada report... (none / 0) (#159)
    by Mr Natural on Sat May 28, 2016 at 08:39:57 PM EST
    Donald Trump himself doesn't own the Toronto tower -- it belongs to Talon Developments, which licensed the Trump brand for the skyscraper, and hired a Trump-owned company to run the property.

    Talon's clients are "no longer interested in the Trump brand" because Trump himself has damaged it, company lawyer Symon Zucker said.

    "It's more important for him to be president than run a successful business," Zucker told the Toronto Star last month.



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