Sunday Open Thread

Comcast is simply impossible to deal with. I've had no internet from Thursday when I moved to late yesterday. Every excuse in the book for not being able to transfer service, hours wasted on the phone, techs who never call back despite promises to do so. A special raspberry to Shawn and Elisha (Alicia or Alisha?) in Seattle and Vince in the Philippines. Worthless, all. I ended up going to the Comcast store late yesterday afternoon and Brandi C. spent an hour doing various things and setting up a fourth account for me and said all I had to do was go home and activate it. She was very close to fixing it, only it wouldn't activate, and I spent another hour or two on the phone with two to three more people, and the last one did something that finally allowed me to activate it. Unfortunately, I didn't write her name down.

Here's a new open thread, all topics welcome.

PS Now that Comcast is back on, it works great. The internet is really fast and the X1 service is an improvement. I have phone service but it's not my phone number -- they haven't figured out to restore my number yet.

Tonight on TV: Homeland, the Good Wife and El Nino Santo. Am I missing anything?

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    Welcome back (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by fishcamp on Sun Oct 11, 2015 at 06:29:47 PM EST
    Sorry to hear about the problems.  We will all be splendid bloggers while you're working.  Don't burn out.  Come on down for a boat drink at a tiki bar. (-:   And the bonefish are back since the water cooled.

    Ben Carson: Pompeii Victims Could Have Outrun Lava (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Oct 11, 2015 at 07:50:04 PM EST
    "Archeologists estimate that the population of Pompeii was about eleven thousand," he said. "You can't tell me that if eleven thousand people put their minds to it they couldn't beat one volcano."


    Carson delivers stupidity (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 04:56:47 AM EST
    ...in measured, even, reassuring tones.  

    It could almost lull you to sleep, if you didn't actually listen to what he is saying.  The words, they have meaning.  Carson will say anything, even though he apparently doesn't KNOW anything.

    He has no sense of how people react to his insensitivity to ordinary behavior.  He is not going to get much mileage out of his hypothetical bravery and leadership if he were ever in such a situation, contrasted by his anecdotal tales of chicken-shack douchebaggery, don't shoot me, shoot HIM.

    Carson, JEB! and Kevin McCarthy make me long for the days of George W. Bush's gift for stirring oratory.

    Carson's amazing ignorance is not limited to how the world works, he also seems to know nothing about the government he wants to take charge of.  The Constitution is a mystery to Carson.  He's like someone who doesn't know the rules of baseball, never played in a game, never even went to a game, but wants to play center field in the World Series.


    Ben Carson (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by KeysDan on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:23:00 AM EST
    is both a good surgeon(just OK, according to Trump) and a fool.   It is not uncommon.

    Yesterday, at a megachurch in Gainesville, GA, the seventh day adventist, Ben Carson, told the Church-goers that he would place God at the Center of politics and culture.

     We are, after all, a Christian nation
    since the founders put "In God We Trust" in the Pledge of Allegiance, on coins and paper money, and in Court Houses.

     His history is a little off, unless you consider President Eisenhower a founding father.  The Pledge was written by the socialist, Edward Bellamy, in 1892, adopted by Congress in 1945, and "In God We Trust" added in 1954.

     Other historical facts (of, course who cares about those) belie his historical accuracy. But, the coins and paper money, perhaps, show that God wants us to buy his book, "A More Perfect Union," which he was pushing at the megachurch.


    "In God We Trust" is not in the Pledge (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:41:19 PM EST
    at all. Maybe Carson doesn't know the Pledge. What was added in 1954, in an anti-communist pander by Congress, was "under God."  And we are not, and never have been, a "Christian nation." Article VI, Clause 3, of the Constitution belies it, among many other authoritative sources. That is one of the biggest historical lies of the Right.

    I may have, (none / 0) (#59)
    by KeysDan on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 02:02:36 PM EST
     "misunderestimated", to use a phrase of George W. Bush, Ben Carson.  He did get the "under God"  for the Pledge; the "In God We Trust" he saved for the other parts of his misinformation. My regrets, but not to Carson.  

    Gramov greets the Jews! (1.67 / 3) (#8)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:47:25 AM EST
    Go away. We do not need to read (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:21:11 AM EST
    Hollywood scripts, so stop posting links to them.  

    to the rescue (1.00 / 3) (#11)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:21:17 AM EST
    to the rescue . . .

    the clip here (1.00 / 3) (#12)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:21:55 AM EST
    Yes well . . . (none / 0) (#7)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:31:48 AM EST
    Treblinka or uprising . . .

    Ben Carson's crackpot ideas are going to (4.80 / 5) (#9)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:17:51 AM EST
    end up getting people killed.  There are people who've been listening to Carson's illogical and magical flights of fancy who are going to act on his irresponsible advice to charge at someone with a gun, and it's not going to save anyone's life - it's just going to add to the body count.

    And it won't be an act of selfless heroism, it will be an act of colossal stupidity.

    Which reminds me, Daniel Craig and Hollywood notwithstanding, Carson's efforts to blame gun control for the Holocaust, and Jews for their own failure to rise up against Hitler is both disturbing and abhorrent.  Not to mention historically inaccurate.

    This is a dangerous man who should be kept as far from elective office as possible.


    anne, you fit this perfectly (1.50 / 2) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:49:11 AM EST
    "Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accept the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay-and claims a halo for his dishonesty." - Robert Heinlein

    A shifty doctrine.. (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by jondee on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:08:25 AM EST
    like one embraced by chickenhawks who've avoided the front lines all their lives.

    One embraced, as well, by (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:23:25 AM EST
    commenters who frequently fall back on quotes from Robert Heinlein.

    So, now you've decided I'm a pacifist? (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:37:31 AM EST
    Why?  Because I said it was irresponsible for Ben Carson to be saying that in confrontations with armed individuals, we should rush at them?  

    Or because I said Carson's grasp of history, specifically the Holocaust, is not accurate?

    Was it because I objected to Carson putting the blame for the millions who died in the Holocaust on gun control, and Jews not willing to take up arms against the Nazis?

    I think you may be one of the last people who should be lecturing anyone on any subject involving honesty.

    But I have no doubt you will be joining Carson in his magical thinking, not least because Carson's making it possible for people like you to openly express your bigotry.


    I guess (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:44:34 AM EST
    Carson and his ilk have never heard about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

    They are so entirely stupid. They want the military to have all the tools and ammo and machinery to their heart's limit but somehow think guns would win against the military. The stupid burns.


    Just Think... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:53:26 AM EST
    ...Iraq might have been the cake walk the right promised us, had they not had so damn many guns.  



    Carson and his ilk (none / 0) (#64)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:44:51 PM EST
    Carson maybe and some of his ilk at times watch TV . . .

    and because they or "we" watch TV, they or we saw the movie about the Warsaw ghetto uprising that was shown on TV several years ago . . .

    and although they or we know there are fictions and truth in movies, they or we realize that the movie was based on actual events . . . at least in part.

    Did Carson goof by saying that the Holocaust would have been greatly diminished if more of the Jews had had guns or there had not been gun control in certain areas?   I don't know . . .  I assume he was exaggerating . . .  We could presume that we will exclude Germany and Austria, and consider Jews in France, Belgium, Holland and the USSR and other areas.

    I don't know how things would have gone if more of them had been armed . . . but it seems that one reason Hitler did not invade/attack Switzerland was that the whole population is supposed to be armed and trained at least somewhat . . .  Or, at least, I believe I have read or heard that . . .

    The other question is, If nearly every Frenchman or nearly every Pole had been armed before 1939, and if the gov of their countries had surrendered as they did in 39 and 40, would the arms in the hands of the general populace of Poland or France made a positive difference in discouraging the Nazis?

    I somewhat think that on June 6, 1944, that a whole lot of guns in the hands of the people of France would have contributed to saving some American lives for the next few weeks and killing some Nazis that month.  Maybe it would have saved us a few days on our trip to Berlin.

    If we and the Russians got to Berlin quicker than in April of 45, then, that might have saved persons in the gas chambers of Aushwitz, where 2000 could be killed in a moment in the gas chambers . . .


    What if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly? (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 05:04:41 PM EST
    You are engaging in a counterfactual argument based on magical thinking and fantasy, I guess because you find it entertaining, but that is not why Carson is making that argument.

    Aside from playing fast and loose with history, these arguments also end up blaming the Jewish people for their own demise.

    Can you just stop now?  This wasn't a "goof" by Carson - he's written about it and talked about it enough that it's clear he actually believes this stuff.

    You want to sign onto that?  Knock yourself out; I don't think it's coming as any surprise to anyone that you are intrigued by Carson and his crackpot ideas.


    O.M.G.! Really? (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 06:35:27 PM EST
    zaitz: "I somewhat think that on June 6, 1944, that a whole lot of guns in the hands of the people of France would have contributed to saving some American lives for the next few weeks and killing some Nazis that month.  Maybe it would have saved us a few days on our trip to Berlin."

    What an incredibly ignorant and stupid thing to opine! Here's a sample of the fate which awaited the loved ones of those in France who resisted the German occupation:

    "Werner C. was part of the 3rd Company of the 1st Battalion of the 'Der Fuehrer' regiment of the fanatical SS's 'Das Reich' division. Four days after the June 6, 1944, D-Day landings in Normandy the company attacked Oradour-sur-Glane in reprisal for the French Resistance's kidnapping of a German soldier. The troops herded the civilians into barns and into the church, blocked the doors and then set fire to the entire town. Those not killed in the blazes were shot as they tried to flee, though a handful managed to escape."

    All told, 642 civilians in Oradour-sur-Glane were slaughtered in reprisal for the kidnapping of one single German soldier by French resistance fighters.

    Also, you absolutely fail to consider the fact that not everyone in France during the period of 1940-44 was necessarily opposed to the German cause. In fact, the very first shots fired by U.S. troops and sailors in the Nov. 8, 1942 invasion of North Africa were not against Germans, but rather at those French troops who were loyal to the Marshal Henri Petain's fascist puppet regime in Vichy.

    In the Battle of Casablanca, four U.S. troop transports and over 150 landing craft sunk were sunk by heavy French naval and artillery gunfire during the landings, which were nevertheless completed successfully, albeit at a cost of 479 American and 1,344 French lives. Further, another 163 U.S. sailors were killed in the corresponding naval battle off the Moroccan capital, as were 462 French sailors.

    French resistance to the Allied invasion ended only when Adolf Hitler ordered German forces to occupy Vichy France militarily on Nov. 15-16, 1942. Convinced that the Vichy regime had been effectively removed from power and that Petain was a German prisoner, the French military commander in North Africa, Admiral François Darlan, declared himself the effective head of state and then switched sides, ordering all French forces to lay down their arms and cooperate with Allied forces.

    (Less than six weeks later on Dec. 24, 1942, Adm. Darlan was himself assassinated at his HQ in Algiers by a delusional 20-year-old French royalist who believed that the admiral's removal would hasten an eventual restoration of the former Bourbon monarchy in Paris. The assassin was immediately arrested; tried and convicted of Darlan's murder by military tribunal the very next day and sentenced to death, and then shot by firing squad on the morning of Dec. 26.)

    So, what Anne said. Can you please just stop now, before you embarrass yourself any further with such mindless and unsubstantiated contentions?



    As best we have been able to determine (none / 0) (#80)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:53:40 PM EST
    at least as many of my wife's French Catholic ancestors/relatives in Alsace died in German camps for their resistance as did my Hungarian Jewish ancestors/relatives.

    Thank you, Peter. (none / 0) (#84)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:36:57 PM EST
    The nonchalance in which Ben Carson, et al., have been talking about this issue demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding and casual dismissal of history's lessons, not to mention that it's a rather appalling display of insensitivity on their parts.

    My paternal grandmother's youngest brother was an American soldier with the U.S. First Army, who was killed in Europe in early 1945. Further, I had a great aunt by marriage, a German of Jewish descent, who was one of the lucky ones. As a teenager, she and her family managed to bribe their way out of Nazi Germany, escaping first to Antwerp and then to England in Jan. 1939, only two months after Kristallnacht.

    They settled in Cambridge northeast of London, where her father taught school. In 1944 she met my great uncle, who was then stationed with the U.S. 8th Air Force in East Anglia. She emigrated to Southern California after the war to marry him and eventually, the rest of her family was able to join them. While they remained faithful to Judaism, she chose to convert to her husband's Catholic faith.

    The crackpotted notion that Jews and other victims of Nazi atrocities are themselves somehow responsible for the fate which had befallen them is both reprehensible and sickening.



    the French resistance (none / 0) (#90)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 04:00:55 AM EST
    I could be wrong, but it seems that you are suggesting that prior to the American liberation of France, that the French resistance should not have killed or captured any German soldiers, because there would be German reprisals against other innocent French persons and there would be more deaths in comparison to the one German taken or lost.

    Forgive me for being slow and struggling and not understanding everything . . .  You know by the way that Hitler also bombed and killed English civilians . . . and that part of Hitler's war on Britain was bombing and killing English civilians . . .

    Basically, you seem to be suggesting that the French resistance should not have killed or captured or kidnapped Germans, because innocent French would be killed in reprisals, but that English forces should have resisted and fought, though English civilians would be killed in terror bombing reprisals . . .

    What General Weygand has called The Battle of France is over. The battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilisation. Upon it depends our own British life and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of a perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour".[21][22]


    No. We are "suggesting" that (none / 0) (#93)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:43:04 AM EST
    Carson's efforts to build an argument against any form of gun control by claiming that gun control was responsible for the Holocaust and Jews were complicit in their own demise is a counterfactual one that depends heavily on magical thinking and illogical fantasy.

    No one is saying resistance efforts should not have been undertaken - but it's clear that resistance does not come without risks.

    What people are saying - what I am saying - is that it is irresponsible and just plain stupid to suggest that in a situation with an active shooter, who may or may not have all his or her mental faculties, those in the cross-hairs should put themselves and others at further risk by confronting the shooter and taking some kind of action.  

    But here's the real problem: you don't seem to function in a world where reality plays much of a role, and it affects your thinking and your logic and even your common sense.  You don't seem to realize that your predilections, provided courtesy of your websites and of which you are clearly quite proud, have, in addition to completely creeping people out, branded you as someone whose thought process and the opinions generated by it cannot be trusted.

    That you apparently share some of Carson's thinking tells me I'm right to be completely creeped out by Carson, too; it's one thing to be the Green Lake Creeper, and quite another to want to be president and be in a position to impose crackpot policies on an entire nation.


    You Are Replying... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:49:25 AM EST
    ...to a man who quotes science fiction writers as some brilliance that applies to world politics.

    Never mind that Heinlein was a liberal, because no one cares what a science fiction writer, who died nearly 30 years ago, would think about Syria/Iraq.

    It's the rights shame game, you don't like war, then you are a pacifist, you don't love your country, you are a radical, you hate the military, and 1001 really dumb things they say when the can't make the case based on merit, so they try and shame.


    But, Scott - he has a friend in (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:10:26 AM EST
    Uncle Chip; that has to count for something, right?



    the politics of heinlein (none / 0) (#62)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:25:41 PM EST
    the politics of heinlein were fluid and changed somewhat over the course of his life . . . variously liberal, conservative, hippy counter-culture, etc

    different of his books reflect different possible political views . . .

    Some people think of Heinlein as mostly libertarian with various possible additional elements.

    Calling him a liberal is misleading oversimplication.


    et al (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:26:07 PM EST
    anne, Carson's point is really quite simple.

    We are our brother's keeper and evil should be opposed. We should never stand mutely by and just allow ourselves to be killed.

    Is that bigotry? Only in your mind.

    GA, when you don't have the facts, make wild claims.

    Scott, yes you are. And you are wrong about Heinlein.

    Isaac Asimov believed that Heinlein made a swing to the right politically at the same time he married Ginny.
    The Heinleins formed the small "Patrick Henry League" in 1958, and they worked in the 1964 Barry Goldwater Presidential campaign.[16]
    When Robert A. Heinlein opened his Colorado Springs newspaper on April 5, 1958, he read a full-page ad demanding that the Eisenhower Administration stop testing nuclear weapons. The science-fiction author was flabbergasted. He called for the formation of the Patrick Henry League and spent the next several weeks writing and publishing his own polemic that lambasted "Communist-line goals concealed in idealistic-sounding nonsense" and urged Americans not to become "soft-headed."[27]


    Donald, as usual you make things up.

    warmongering and stupidity with the concept of patriotism.

    That has nothing to do with the concept of self defense.

    Heinlein also wrote:

    What are the marks of a sick culture? It is a bad sign when the people of a country stop identifying themselves with the country and start identifying with a group. A racial group. Or a religion. Or a language. Anything, as long as it isn't the whole population.

    Zorba I did my share. Jondee, you did not.

    et al - There was a time in which being a Democrat did not mean you were, a best, a pacifist. Of course Truman and Roosevelt are dead.


    JimakaPPJ: "[A]s usual you make things up."

    Well, since we're busted, I guess I'll just have to spill the beans. For years now, Anne and I have convened a nightly conference call of our fellow delusional TL libtards, and we all come up with various ways by which we can irritate you and get your goat. But alas, we should have known that you're simply too smart for the sorry likes of us.

    Christ in Heaven, but you are a pill! And once again, I'm left to wonder how you ever made it past the ninth grade.



    "Zorba, I did my share." (none / 0) (#82)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:32:17 PM EST
    Whatever the he[[ that means.

    Carson's point was really quite simple (none / 0) (#87)
    by jondee on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:15:26 AM EST
    to in a staggeringly stupid and heavy-handed way exploit one of history's greatest tragedies in the service of the far-rights neanderthalic approach to violence in America.

    What makes the repeated use of that (none / 0) (#88)
    by jondee on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:24:59 AM EST
    quotation so dumb is that it refuses to acknowledge the obvious fact that pacifistic teachers, doctors, nurses, parents, scientists etc can still make tremendous contributions to any society.

    The poet Lorca talked about fascistic "patent leather souls" who only admire a man in uniform carrying a gun..

    Jim and Robert Heinlein are obviously two of those.


    re Carson and the holocaust (none / 0) (#65)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:53:46 PM EST
    Wikipedia says that there were about 100 armed uprisings of Jews against the Nazis during WWII, but wiki also says of the Warsaw ghetto uprising that they, the Jews, were poorly armed . . .

    Unless someone has been recently reading wiki or studying the time, they might not know the numbers of armed uprisings of Jews . . . or the amount or quality of the arms . . .

    I assume that Carson does not spend his time reading wiki to check each statement for complete accuracy . . .

    but he seems to be doing as well or perhaps better than HRC in HRC's running explanations and commentary on her private servers--explanations that change from month to month to reflect new information.

    I am not sure if anyone running is really very accurate or honest . . . maybe Sanders or O'malley but I haven't even tried to pay attention to their accuracy or not . . .


    to be more precise . . . (none / 0) (#89)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:45:29 AM EST
    as I recall, what carson said was that we should rush those who are shooting us or shooting at us or perceived as likely to be shooting at us or others, and not merely certain armed robbers . . .

    you would agree that Meis at SPU in Seattle and the Americans in France on the train did exactly that, and that they are regarded as heroes for it?


    As these fit you much better, Jim. (none / 0) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:58:21 PM EST
    "Ignorance is the night of the mind, but a night without moon and star."
    - Confucius (551 B.C.-479 B.C.)

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago."
    - Bernard Berenson (1865-1959)

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
    - The Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929 - 1968), Strength to Love (1963)

    Because only willful ignorance would cause someone such as yourself to conflate both warmongering and stupidity with the concept of patriotism.

    "You have to understand the way I am, Mein Herr. A tiger is a tiger, not a lamb, Mein Herr. You'll never turn the vinegar to jam, Mein Herr. So I do what I do. When I'm through, then I'm through. And I'm through. Toodle-oo! Bye-bye, Mein Lieber Herr."
    - Sally Bowles (Liza Minnelli), Cabaret (1972)



    there is at Greenlake . . . (1.00 / 3) (#13)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:41:45 AM EST
    There is at Greenlake a man who also at times walks and who is considered by some people the mayor of Greenlake--or perhaps he is considered by himself to be mayor of Greenlake.

    He is Jewish and a former school teacher.  For a while he and I were somewhat friendly though we have not talked much this year.

    He owns one or more guns, and when we were discussing that topic, he said it was for the next time that the government comes for the Jews.

    April 19, 1775 . . .


    Throughout history (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by jondee on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:17:22 AM EST
    going back to the Middle Ages and before it wasn't "governments" coming for the Jews so much as it was Christians.

    Good God... (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:39:36 AM EST
    ...now we are getting advise about guns from a man who likes exposing himself in public because of what one one person, who fancies himself as a mayor of a lake, may have said to him.

    Don't you have some unsuspecting young females to horrify ?


    LOL! He probably does, Scott. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:08:55 PM EST
    But the Woodland Park Zoo probably has a standing TRO against him, so he comes here instead.

    (FYI, Green Lake is a residential district in north Seattle, and home to an assortment of odd and colorful characters.)



    Jon Meis saved lives . . . (none / 0) (#17)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:21:43 AM EST
    the first step in SPU attack . . . (none / 0) (#23)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:47:39 AM EST
    Once at the campus, Ybarra said he re-assembled the shotgun, loaded it and walked toward Otto Miller Hall.

    When he attempted to take the students hostage by brandishing the weapon, Ybarra said a male student laughed at him, thinking the gun was fake.

    "I was really mad at him for doing that," Ybarra told detectives. "That was the first guy I shot. When he turned his back."

    Ybarra did not start with shooting; Ybarra started with brandishing and demands  . . .  He shot when he was ignored and laughed at.  Ybarra shot 3 persons; he killed one of them and wounded 2 others.  

    So . . . we suppose instead first guy jumps at him and is shot while doing so . . .  We have to guess as to whether or not Ybarra kills  him in the heat of the moment . . . or if something goes wrong . . .  Does Ybarra miss or only wound him?  We don't know.

    Please note that most mass shooters, in contrast to Ybarra, have not spent time practicing at the local shooting range . . .


    why the problem with Carson's comments? (2.20 / 5) (#5)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:02:23 AM EST
    back on 9/11, there was a group of unarmed passengers who attacked the hijackers and we celebrate them as heroes because they saved lives.

    a few months ago, there were several americans on a train in France and they attacked a gunman and took him down and we celebrate them as heroes.

    In Seattle, a year ago, there was a shooter at SPU and he had to reload and while attempting to reload, he was attacked by a person or persons who stopped him, who are now considered heroes or a hero.

    During WWII, there were in fact some Jews who took up  arms in the Ukraine and wandered about, providing for themselves and killing Germans and there is a movie about it called Defiance.  You know, the movie with Daniel Craig the D-list actor no one has heard of . . .

    Also during WWII, the Jews in the ghetto of Warsaw rebelled and fought the Germans . . . and, in case you did not know it, that was also made into a movie with other d-list actors such as leelee sobieski and it went straight to late-night cable--being of such poor quality . . .

    Though, the Warsaw uprising was put down . . .

    In 1968, the 25th anniversary of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, Zuckerman was asked what military lessons could be learned from the uprising. He replied:

    "I don't think there's any real need to analyze the Uprising in military terms. This was a war of less than a thousand people against a mighty army and no one doubted how it was likely to turn out. This isn't a subject for study in military school. (...) If there's a school to study the human spirit, there it should be a major subject. The important things were inherent in the force shown by Jewish youth after years of degradation, to rise up against their destroyers, and determine what death they would choose: Treblinka or Uprising."[62]

    A typical Eastern European shtetl. LOCAL POLICE help German Einsatzgruppen, mobile killing squads, round up Jews.

    PEASANTS beat them with sticks as they are herded into lines.
    One man tries to run and is beaten.
    Others look on, or look away with indifference as they are loaded onto waiting trucks.

    Oh . . . well . . . I can't imagine what two Jews with a gun could do . . .  I can't imagine it at all . . .


    And death situations. If people can communicate privately and create a plan that changes things exponentially too, like in the back aisles of a full airplane.

    But a real idiocy in Carson's philosophy is that as far as I know he doesn't believe in a new world order. If this storm the guys with guns thing were to be adopted on a large scale look out 1%, look out law enforcement, look out crowd control.  If Ben Carson really wants people to ignore the deadlines of guns and enmass storm those who threaten us with such weapons he might want to tease that philosophy all the way out :)


    Weird population dynamics with Maine Lobsters (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:26:45 AM EST
    The enigma behind America's freak, 20-year lobster boom

    Last year, Maine fishermen hauled ashore 124 million pounds of lobsters, six times more than what they'd caught in 1984.

    Even more remarkable than sheer volume, though, is that this sudden sixfold surge has no clear explanation. A rise in sea temperatures, which has sped up lobster growth and opened up new coastal habitats for baby lobsters, is one likely reason. Another is that by plundering cod and other big fish in the Gulf of Maine, we've thinned out the predators that long kept lobster numbers in check.

    Even as biologists puzzle over Maine's strange serendipity, a more ominous mystery is emerging. A scientist who tracks baby lobsters reports that in the last few years their numbers have abruptly plummeted, up and down Maine's coast.

    Not sure about Yankee lobsters (none / 0) (#91)
    by ragebot on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:19:01 AM EST
    But I do know something about lobsters in the Florida.  Since the 1950s when my Dad returned to his home state I have been catching and eating Florida Lobsters.  Some years lobster are hard to find and some years they literally walk over each other's backs and crawl out of the water on land in what is called a lobster walk.

    Some say storms are the cause, but the thing is not all storms cause one and sometimes they walk without storms.  But I have never seen anyone who could predict correctly when the lobster would walk.


    Movies! Movies! Movies! (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:10:31 AM EST
    Saw two movies this weekend, and I recommend them both. Both Sicario and The Martian provide suspense, interesting characters and an emotional response, albeit a different emotional response for each movie.

    Sicario is another movie about our never-ending drug wars. It stars Emily Blunt as an FBI agent who specializes in kidnap rescues. While not starry-eyed, she does still believe in doing things by the book. She is assigned to be the liaison to an undefined drug war task force lead by Josh Brolin, a task force that somehow includes a former Columbian prosecutor played by Benicio del Toro.

    It is a harsh movie, but the actors, especially Blunt and del Toro, are excellent. Be warned- this is in no way a nice or fun or easy-going movie, and violence probably should have been billed as a co-star.

    The Martian, which stars Matt Damon with a multitude of other actors doing excellent work (Jeff Daniels, Jessica Chastain, Chiwetel Elejiofor, Michael Pena and others) is based on the book of the same name. Damon plays an astronaut, part of a Mars exploration team, who is left on the red planet by his crew because they think he has been killed in a storm.

    The movie runs on two tracks- Damon trying to survive on Mars and NASA down on earth trying, once they learn to their great shock and surprise that Damon's character is alive, trying to figure out a way to bring him back home to earth.

    I laughed and I cried. Seriously. Damon, who is one of my favorite actors, is so good in this movie. And, given that he plays an astronaut stranded on Mars, totally believable.

    The Martian is offered in both 2D and 3D. I saw it at the Giant Screen Theater here in 2D because I trouble watching 3D. Spectacular.

    We have entered that time of year when I seem to be going to a movie at least once, if not more, a week because suddenly the theaters are filled with movies I actually want to see enough to pay the ticket prices. I do take full advantage of the fact that I am now old enough for the senior discount.

    replied in the other thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by CST on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:12:58 AM EST
    But I'll stop by again to say YAAAY MARTIAN.

    Yes (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 04:24:24 PM EST
    It was very good.   And I'm not a fan of the star particularly.

    "Sicario" was wonderful but ... (none / 0) (#66)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 04:05:34 PM EST
    ... but pretty hair-raising, as movie experiences go. I'll also echo your cautious recommendation of this movie, because some of its moments are definitely not for the squeamish or overly sensitive. I'll just say that given both the plot and what's depicted onscreen, you'll eventually come to see both how and why they went there.

    Ever since his Oscar-nominated supporting turn as S.F. Supervisor Dan White in Gus Van Sant's acclaimed film "Milk," I've come to really appreciate Josh Brolin's understated approach to drama. In this particular role in "Sicario," he offers just a vague and tantalizing hint of potential menace, without ever once devolving into outright caricature. A lesser actor wouldn't have been able to resist the temptation to chew the scenery and channel Sterling Hayden's Gen. Jack D. Ripper from "Dr. Strangelove."

    A funny thing about senior discounts: when my hair grew back after chemo, it came in very grey. So much so that when I occasionally go to see a film on my own, unless I specifically say "One adult, please," more often than not the box office clerk will look at me and automatically give me the senior discount, even though I won't actually turn 60 for another 5-1/2 years. I guess I aged more than I realized from that health issue.



    Amy Schumer... (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:24:11 AM EST
    ...on SNL did a damn funny skit spoofing gun lovers.

    The problem, it's a spoof of reality.

    A comment above reminded me, we don't allow guns on planes, even for personal security, because the idea that more guns would equal less violence is absurd, whether it's up in the air, down on the ground, in a hospital, or at the playground.  Less guns equals less gun violence, no matter what gun manufactures claim.

    1,000th US Mass Shooting Since Sandy Hook (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:28:34 PM EST
    Just before sundown on Thursday 1 October, an old man charged across the main street of the little town of Inglis, Florida. He was expecting trouble. Someone had recklessly fired a pistol in public, and Buzz Terhune intended to have words about it.

    The horror that unfolded in the next few minutes has become so mundane, so everyday, that it no longer makes national news. Terhune was marching headlong into the 1,000th mass shooting in the United States since the Sandy Hook elementary school massacre almost three years ago.

    Just a few hours earlier, a gunman in Oregon had killed nine people and injured nine others at a community college. It shocked the American conscience. But what happened to Terhune and three other people, and has happened to thousands of others across the country, went unnoticed. Shootings that injure or kill four or more people - mass shootings - have become commonplace in American culture.


    Guns & Football (none / 0) (#48)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:06:53 PM EST
    This time after the Dallas game where a crowd cheered for the person with the gun to shoot the guy who is now in critical condition. LINK

    The good news, the shooter hurt himself trying to get away and will be in jail as soon as the hospital releases him.


    Innoncent man sentenced to death (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by McBain on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:35:06 AM EST

    Typical situation.  Poor defendant couldn't afford a good lawyer.  The prosecutors wanted to win at all costs.  Only unusual thing.... after 30 years the prosecutor admits he was wrong.

    Columbus Day (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:18:05 PM EST
    For generations, school children learned to recite, "In fourteen hundred and ninety-two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue". They then learned the story of the brave explorer who navigated into uncharted territory with sailors who were frightened of falling off the edge of a flat earth. That tale, much of it created by Washington Irving (the man who gave us The Legend of Sleepy Hollow), is bunk. Mariners knew full well the earth was round, including Columbus and his crew. Columbus just thought the circumference of the earth was thousands of miles smaller, and thus that the islands of the Caribbean were the East Indies. Our holiday celebrates a man who was lost.

    Lost or not, he immediately captured some of the natives he met, writing of the "seven [natives] which I have ordered to be taken and carried to Spain," and further musing that "I could conquer the whole of them with 50 men, and govern them as I pleased". In December, his ships reached Hispaniola - the island that now hosts Haiti and the Dominican Republic - where he forced the natives to provide him gold; those who didn't had their hands lopped off. It was the beginning of a rapid decline of the island's population; historian Laurence Bergreen estimates that there were 300,000 natives on Hispaniola when Columbus arrived; by 1550, there were just 500. Many had been killed by disease or Spanish soldiers; others had been enslaved and sent back to Spain. A huge number simply took their own lives rather than live under Spanish rule. Is this really worthy of a celebration and a three-day sale at the local department store?


    For the record, Columbus never set foot on the soil that would later be called the United States of America.

    Not as lost as you seem to think (none / 0) (#92)
    by ragebot on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:37:53 AM EST
    As some of you may remember I have applied for an educational permit to visit Cuba to mimic what may have been Columbus's first voyage to the New World.  While there is no agreement on just where Columbus first landed everyone seems to agree the 5th or 6th place he landed was the North Coast of Cuba.

    While this book is disputed by some it does offer an interesting theory about where Columbus did land.  The reason I buy into this theory is because at Columbus's third landing he sent his tenders through a reef to get what he described as casks of fresh water.  The only place in the Bahamas where fresh water meets the sea is Andros and the only way his third landfall could be Andros is if the route proposed in the book is correct.  But I am open to other theories.

    Arne Molander who wrote the book spent lots of time sailing in the Bahamas with a transcribed version of Columbus's log (unfortunately the original was lost) and describes the instruments Columbus carried along with Johan Mueller's ephemeris which would allow fairly accurate navigation including how to determine latitude with readings of lunar planetary conjunctions.  The transcribed log indicates unexplained stops at places that offered unobstructed views of these lunar planetary conjunctions.  It is interesting to note Columbus also used the ephemeris's prediction of a total solar eclipse to shock the natives on the DR.

    To a great extent Columbus was a product of his times in dealing with the natives and I am not trying to defend that.  But it is important to note that Columbus was viewed as the greatest navigator of his age.  He spent lots of time studying previous explorers and there is circumstantial evidence he was aware (and some claim was on) a voyage to the New World sponsored by the King of Sweden.

    What separated Columbus for other explores was not that he sailed to the New World, but that he was able to get the lat/long of some of the places he landed and was then able to get back home.


    Missing you all.... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:27:49 PM EST
    Are we ready to rumble?   Another election thought I would see how everyone is doing.  

    Hey, good to see ya! (none / 0) (#60)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:18:32 PM EST
    Oh yeah, we do some rumbling already.

    A breath of fresh air! (none / 0) (#81)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:19:35 PM EST
    Same trouble with AT&T for past 7 months (none / 0) (#3)
    by suzieg on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 02:31:13 AM EST
    To make an extremely long story short, the bottom line is that I've been asked to pay $1,220.00 for their mistake. Moved from Austin to Houston and asked to have the same promotions for long distance calls as I had in Austin which basically cost $5.99 for unlimited calls to Canada and US + $0.10 to UK. along with a regular landline because my husband had just been told by MD Anderson that he had ran out of options and to start researching hospice care. I wanted the reliability of a land line but got Uverse phone service instead. After 3 months of begging for a regular landline, I was finally able to have someone come over and install it but the representative had forgotten to add voice mail. After calling to have it installed, the order was somehow changed for unlimited calls to US only therefore ended up with a $1,220.00 bill. By this time, my husband was not able to come home for hospice care because of lack of phone service and died in the hospital. The calls were to family and friends in Canada and the US where my husband's family and my kids are living. I"ve been telling AT&T to listen to all my recorded calls where i repeatedly asked them if I have the $5.99 plan which they all assured me I did.. I'm always told that it was definitely their fault and that I will have my bill credited but the bill keeps growing because of the penalties for not paying on time. They even cut my service altogether.. I've been  assured it should all be resolved by Friday. I'll never forgive them for all the stress they caused us during this most difficult and sad time!

    suzie - I am so sorry for your loss; (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:41:39 AM EST
    and then to have been sent down a bureaucratic rabbit hole while trying to deal with your husband's last days, and his eventual death, is just too much.

    I swear I just don't know what's wrong with people; why should something like this have ever gotten to the point that it did?

    I hope you get some resolution to this, finally.


    Suzie, I am so very sorry (none / 0) (#40)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:19:54 PM EST
    This was absolutely horrible.  And totally unacceptable on the part of AT&T.
    You have all my sympathy.  My thoughts are with you.

    My sympathies. (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:23:52 PM EST
    When my daughter was in Taipai for a semester almost 10 years ago, my ATT bill for a couple phone calls to her was exorbitant. The company forgave those charges and signed me up for special rates to Taiwan. But a few more calls pre-plan showed up on the next month's bill. No forgiveness for those.

    Oh Suzie, I am so sorry (none / 0) (#42)
    by sj on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:29:33 PM EST
    It is unforgiveable that you had to deal with this when your focus truly needed to be elsewhere.

    Peace to you and your family.


    I've been watching "Indian Summers." (none / 0) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 02:54:05 AM EST
    It's on the same time as "The Good Wife," and I've decided to catch that show on the rebound.

    I've been watching it too. (none / 0) (#85)
    by desertswine on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:38:13 PM EST
    Even tho I can't understand the dialogue about a third of the time.  I don't know if its the accents or if I'm losing my hearing.

    Pistorious Killing Scene becomes Party House (none / 0) (#25)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:52:45 AM EST
    Two business partners have taken out a lease on Pistorius' former home, and they plan on turning it into a "party house," according to a news report from South Africa's News24.

    Footage obtained by Netwerk24 shows the two partners standing both outside and inside Pistorius' former home, toting beers and speaking of their plans to turn the house into a party pad.

    "We're going to decorate the house in honor of what happened here. And then we'll invite people over."

    Anything new in Arkansas drinking water? (none / 0) (#33)
    by christinep on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:24:44 AM EST
    Or is Arkansas Repub Senator Tom Cotton just naturally over the edge?  

    It seems the Senator thinks that the House could use stability and order, and has proposed the one with the ability to bring that coalescence: Enter the one, the only Dick Cheney!

    Dr. Paul Krugman, (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by KeysDan on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:02:11 PM EST
    in his NYT article (Oct 12) has other ideas of what is going on: In brief, he says, "crazies have taken over the Republican Party, but the media don't want to recognize this reality.  The combination of these two facts has created an opportunity, indeed, a need, for political con men. And, Mr. (Paul) Ryan has risen to the challenge."

    Ryan, everyone says (except Cotton) is the only one who can save the day (and their bacon). But, Krugman notes that the Republican party is a post-policy enterprise, which does not do real solutions to real problems, and pundits and the media, really do not want to face up to that reality.

     The media is still worshiping at the church of "balance."  Ryan, Krugman holds, is a con man.  He is to fiscal policy what Fiorina was to corporate management: brillant at self-promotion, hopeless at actually doing the job. But his act has been good enough for media work. He even uses power point!

     Ryan is wise to ask around if the the Speaker's job is right for him.  As Romney's running mate his halo was fraying, and, Krugman predicts that a few months as speaker would probably complete the process.


    Never got around to replying (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:12:00 PM EST
    I'm happy to say, although I have never beaten Ryan's falsified marathon time, I smoked his real time at nearly triple the age he was when he ran Grandma's Marathon. Ryan is a putz of a runner.

    Eliminate (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:40:43 PM EST
    the last three words of your final sentence, and you have exactly characterized Ryan in every way.   ;-)

    Exactly ... on both the man & the media (none / 0) (#46)
    by christinep on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:57:10 PM EST
    Media & pundits: Looking a bit at the Sunday a.m. panel group-talk, the storyline really hasn't changed too much for them in the way of "Trump or not Trump, and how far does he go, and who is this week's flavor" (Reps) countered by "Hillary 'still' ahead in polls, but will Biden jump in & Bernie can draw a crowd" (Dems.) While the Repub Congressional dilemma now draws some concentrated segments, the depth of the matter is not plumbed in any way ... because the cw approach to balance has to be inserted. A kind of somnambulism or trance would characterize this stage.

    Paul Ryan: How do you say pretentious, pompous, & downright phony in a stronger way! Raul defines the "he has a lean & hungry look" character.  Unfortunately--from what I know of Paul Ryan's budget plan to save the county, etc., we better have a back-up plan to survive when he takes his hatchet to all government programs that shore up society.  With him, we would soon find that old W's privatization of Social Security and dissing of related programs like Medicare seemed genuinely helpful & positive compared to Paul Ryan's Ayn Rand model of government. (So, I have mixed feelings about him in the Speaker's role: OTOH, since his draconian views could be exposed earlier in the Speaker's role--thereby ending a potential national office run--I'd want to see him plunge headlong into the House mess.  Yet, the lesser effect on the nation now would be if he squirreled himself away with his pretend accountant's eyeshades.)


    I expect Utley to be playing tonight (none / 0) (#37)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:05:01 PM EST
    Also expect him to win his appeal should they ever actually have the hearing. This play has happened more that a dozen times in the past without a suspension.

    Have you seen any video from (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:19:32 PM EST
    when Utley leaves first base to when he takes out Tejada?  (Yes, I've googled.).

    PS. A Japanese pro catcher friend relates he slif into second cleats up and took out the shortstop, whose injuries ended his pro career.  Then another player did the same to the catcher, who explained, that's how the game is played. No complaining.


    Imagine baseball played "open carry" (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:32:03 PM EST

    Yes indeed. Tejeda (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:34:46 PM EST

    But as someone who loves the game of baseball, which should not be played as a full-contact sport, I believe that that Utley's suspension is upheld. It was an ugly and dirty play, and while I'm sure that he never intended to break Tejada's leg with that slide, nevertheless there needs to be consequences for such incidents.

    Yes, this sort of thing has happened in the past -- the last time being only a few short weeks ago in Pittsburgh, as a matter of fact, on a slide by the Cubs' Chris Coghlan that was even worse than Utley's -- but Major League Baseball has to finally draw the line here.



    The bum is coming off the bench... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 06:28:51 PM EST
    And should be mindful of chin music should Mattingly  call his number. Payback's a b#tch.

    The tackle was one thing, technically illegal but everybody does it...what killed me was the review. Utley never touched second, he gave himself up...shoulda been an out.

    No sense cryin' over spilled milk...it's Harvey time. Let's Go Mets! Beat them sons of b#tches.


    Well... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 07:39:10 PM EST
    Utley never touched second, he gave himself up...shoulda been an out.

    My thought also, but the ruling was that since Utley was declared out on the field before the video reversal, he did not have to touch the bag.  The "safe" call that put him back on second was based on the reversal of the out call on the field.  The rationale was that it was an umpire's mistake to call him out, as Tejada did not touch the bag, and Utley should not have to suffer for another's mistake

    Utley should sit out until Tejada plays again, and both players should have been called out because of runner's interferance.  The four runs scored after that play were the difference in the game.


    It should've been a double play, ... (none / 0) (#74)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 07:12:11 PM EST
    ... based on runner interference. I hope the Dodgers consider getting rid of Utley during the off-season. That was just a dirty play.

    More importantly, though, MLB should just amend the damned rules to require that henceforth, a baserunner must slide at the base and not at the nearest infielder, with violators subject to an automatic two-week suspension. There's absolutely no reason for such violent collisions between players of opposing teams to be occurring on purpose. The only legally hard contact in baseball should be bat to ball.

    While I'm obviously rooting for the Dodgers, here's a toast in hope that the remaining games of this series can be played without any further controversy.



    7th inning: Mets 10, Dodgers 4. (none / 0) (#86)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:45:16 PM EST
    Maybe that's karma, deciding to bite my Dodgers in the a$$.

    BTD and I will likely now mourn (none / 0) (#51)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:19:39 PM EST
    the remainder of the Gator season (unless our defense pulls off half a dozen shutouts)

    Why? (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:32:40 PM EST
    Just enjoy the rest of the season, and be thankful that Florida didn't hire Steve Sarkisian. They're apparently not waiting until December in Los Angeles.

    Sarkisian (none / 0) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:43:34 PM EST
    was never on the Gators radar. We're very happy with McElwain.

    Gator game has been pulled off the board in about half of Vegas.


    Losing recruits at USC (none / 0) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:45:16 PM EST
    will move the needle quickly in Los Angeles.

    ... in L.A. since I first commented on the state of USC football last Saturday, I really can't see how Sarkisian will ever be allowed to return to the sidelines as the Trojans' head coach.

    Let me further update that. He won't be returning, because USC has just announced that he's been fired.

    I also believe that at this point, AD Pat Haden's job security is likely problematic as well, unless he's got some serious friends in high places who are willing to shield him from the Schittstorm that's now enveloping the USC athletic department.

    When Sarkisian's hiring was first announced in Dec. 2013, and I remember thinking how odd it was that my alma mater Washington appeared overly eager to hustle him onto the plane to SoCal. Granted, the Huskies likely had Chris Peterson already waiting in their lobby at that particular moment, but per today's story in the Los Angeles Times, I can now see why UW administrators weren't sorry to see him leave.

    I find it very hard to believe that Haden wouldn't have known about any of this baggage prior to making such a decision, particularly since the hard-partying Sarkisian was also a former offensive coordinator during Pete Carroll's tenure as Trojan head coach. He certainly didn't take up binge drinking in response to the long, dark and wet Seattle winters.

    Didn't anybody say anything to Haden about Sarkisian before he made his choice? If nobody did, then why not? Because of the high-profile nature of Trojan football in the greater USC community, the cascading events of these past four days have proved Sarkisian's hiring to be a monumental personnel blunder of the first order.

    Ed Orgeron has got to be laughing at these latest developments.


    And here to play Sarkisian offstage... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 06:40:31 PM EST
    Cheers! (none / 0) (#75)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 07:14:14 PM EST
    There's no truth to the current rumor that Coach Sark's nickname is "Cutty."

    ... of Sarkisian's problems with alcohol: LINK. Living in Provo, UT would certainly drive me to drink.

    Oh, now I see why you're in mourning. (none / 0) (#79)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:29:58 PM EST
    That's a shame. I have to feel for the kid, because he was having such a good year, too. Maybe Treon Harris will rise to the occasion.

    FSU fanboy here (none / 0) (#94)
    by ragebot on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:48:43 AM EST
    I am finding something funny about this story which I posted a link to in BTD's football thread.  The Jax paper is reporting the UF program listed Grier's weight as 201 and last year he was listed as 200.  At the preseason presser Grier said he gained 15 pounds in the off season.  The Atlanta paper has claimed Grier has gone from 175 to 225 at UF.  I have no idea which is right and am wondering if some of the UF fanboys can point me in the right direction.

    My understanding is roids help build muscle mass resulting in weight gains so knowing just how much weight Grier has gained is kinda important in determining if this was a simple mistake by the kid or a deliberate act.  I know Jamis gained weight at FSU but if you look at before and after pix Jamis' weight gain seems to be from eating too many crab legs and is concentrated in his gut and butt.

    In any case I am withholding my judgement till I know just how much weight Grier gained and what part of the body gained the weight.  UF has appealed and it is possible Grier could return earlier than expected.  On the other hand he could also face more problems if the Atlanta paper's claim is true.


    Sunday TV...anyone watching Project Greenlight (none / 0) (#61)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:22:55 PM EST
    on HBO? It's the Ben Affleck/Matt Damon produced reality show about the director they selected directing a low budget independent film that will be shown on HBO.

    I love this kind of stuff, so I am hooked. they director they chose may be a good director - that remains to be seen, but he does not get the concept of low budget, so bumps heads with the line producer often. It is her job to be the one that says no to his 'dreams'.

    I don't particularly like the movie they are making. Supposed to be a comedy of manners but does not look that funny to me. Maybe the finished product will be ok.

    An announcement just came down (none / 0) (#77)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:20:53 PM EST
    that will make all Gator fans reminisce.

    Saint Steve has announced his retirement. The ol' ball coach is hanging em up.

    Fargo- wow, gonna be good! (none / 0) (#83)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:28:52 PM EST