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Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Future

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Wed Jan 12, 2005 at 07:24:34 PM EST
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Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-MA) today called for Democrats to go progressive. He said Democrats didn't talk enough about values in the election.

"We were remiss in not talking more directly about them - about the fundamental ideals that guide our progressive policies," he said. He added that Kerry's loss also showed that Democrats must communicate better with voters on issues of deep conscience, including abortion, without yielding the party's support for a woman's right to choose.

Kennedy has a progressive agenda ready for the taking:

He said Medicare should be gradually expanded to cover all citizens, and the cost would be funded through payroll taxes and general revenues and offset by savings through advances in technology. Kennedy also called for greater federal support for college costs, saying every student who is admitted to college should be guaranteed the cost of earning a degree.

Kennedy said:

"We cannot move our party or our nation forward under pale colors and timid voices," said Kennedy, who has served 42 years in the Senate. "We cannot become Republican clones. If we do, we will lose again, and deserve to lose."

He did not endorse anyone for DNC Chair.

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    Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Future | 61 comments (61 topical)
    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 12, 2005 at 07:43:45 PM EST
    "...Kerry's loss also showed that Democrats must communicate better with voters on issues of deep conscience..." Spoken like a true loser. Everyone knows the Dems can talk a good story. The majority vote against them because of what they do, not what they say: no parental rights regarding abortion, toadying to unions against parents rights, etc., etc., etc...and of course, in Ted's case...well, you get the idea.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 12, 2005 at 08:05:27 PM EST
    Was that Kennedy talking? I must have missed it, what with the water in my ears and all. -C PS - Yes, that was a MARY JO KOPECHNE reference. Duh.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 12, 2005 at 08:17:09 PM EST
    Its tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber Bush is ahead by 99,999 bodies

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#4)
    by Darryl Pearce on Wed Jan 12, 2005 at 09:21:56 PM EST
    ...there's gotta be some internet law concern the "transporter affect" between any mention of Ted Kennedy and his youthful misadventure. Oh, and George W Bush was a freakin' drunk until he was forty and he still won't admit it. ...and of course, Bush has made a mistake!

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 12, 2005 at 10:02:29 PM EST
    Look its the old show once more, Sen.Kennedy is not speaking out on any real Ideals or any real Fundamental Issue's that do have some real meaning to what is still called the Vast majority of people asking some real questions about where our we going in this nation? Kennedy is the show and we all love the old guy because of RFK And JFK, But understand its all just a show and he is really meaningless to our new world order. Let us stop and think for just a little time and look with real eyes at this non nation for what it will be like for your kids in 50 years. The third world is not a loving place and it is your kids Future if you don't stop and think.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#6)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Wed Jan 12, 2005 at 11:15:29 PM EST
    The majority vote against them because of what they do, not what they say Actually, they were the majority party until they started morphing into Republicans by doing things like pushing NAFTA through.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:13:16 AM EST
    Looks like our own legislature is taking the opposite view on being progressive. They are about to create a whole new class of criminal defendants to keep Jeralyn busy.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 05:15:44 AM EST
    "[We] must communicate better with voters on issues of deep conscience, including abortion," I think Kennedy must communicate better with the voters on issues of deep conscience, including the murder of Mary Jo Kopeckni. Until then the hypocritical windbag can shove it up his ass.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 05:59:41 AM EST
    Daaryl P writes - "...there's gotta be some internet law concern the "transporter affect" between any mention of Ted Kennedy and his youthful misadventure." Calling the death of a young woman a misadventure is, at best, in incredibly poor taste. I thought better of you than that. You should also remember that we have only Kennedy's account of what happened and it was about 12 hours between the time the car left the road and he surrendered to the police. Plus, there is the fact that he left a party in which there was heavy drinking, and some have said he was under the influence. At best his misdaventure was leaving the scene of an accident. At worst it was vehicular homicide. Had he not been a Kennedy it is likely he would have served some jail time.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 06:21:23 AM EST
    Every time the Democrats lose an election, they claim it was due to a failure on their part to get their message across to the voters. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars on advertising and outreach, yet they somehow manage to fail to connect year after year after year. Maybe it's time for Teddy to rethink this. The only time the Democrats have won the presidency since Jimmy Carter was when they ran a candidate with a new message. Could it be that the problem isn't that they are not getting their message across? Could it instead be that a significant portion of the voters have in fact gotten the message and just don't like what they are hearing? I know this is heresy to the liberals who believe in their hearts that everyone in America agrees with them, but election results indicate otherwise. Bill Clinton did not win running as a liberal Democrat. George Bush did win running as a conservative Republican (albeit one too willing to spend money). The evidence suggests that the majority of the voters (albeit a small majority) is more comfortable with a conservative Republican than with a liberal Democrat but might in fact prefer a moderate (or "New") Democrat over a conservative Republican. Teddy is leading the party down the same primrose path he and his kind have been preaching since the 1960s. It is the same dead-end alley it has always been. If it goes on for much longer, the party will die of atrophy as more and more people look elsewhere. One might also note that if anyone took this claim seriously and really believed that the problem was a failure to connect with the voters, they'd stop hiring the same people to help them get their message out every election cycle. How many times does a Donna Brazile have to fail before she is no longer considered a desirable campaign consultant?

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 06:54:24 AM EST
    I know this is heresy to the liberals who believe in their hearts that everyone in America agrees with them... Americans vote for Conservatives & Neoconservatives and they have no idea what it is they are voting for. I could give specific examples, but (1) i've done that many times here before and (2) its time consuming. I very rarely meet a Conservative who truly understands their ideology (to a lesser extent, I have the same experience with Democrats). We live in a Monoculture of Egotism. Thoughts of human beings as people rather than objects do not easily penetrate the modern American psyche. Thus terms like "Collateral Damage" can become everyday regurgitations, casually overheard in beauty parlors and lunch counters. Garbage in, Garbage out. What else can we expect from a votership with exponentially increasing access to bad/false information.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 07:04:24 AM EST
    The Democrats problem is they cater to the elite, just like the Republicans, only they do it more deceptively. The Republicans piss on the working class in plain view, the Dems do it behind closed doors. A true progressive party is a party of the people. The Dems simply don't qualify. Maybe Dean can shake things up, but I'm not holding my breath. True progressives should be supporting a guy like Ralph Nader instead of blaming him, and focus their ire on the inept, corrupt, good for nothing Dems. We needed them the last 5 yrs., and they looked after their own and their political careers. To hell with them.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 07:06:58 AM EST
    Thank god. Really. I think Teddy Kennedy is all we have left sometimes.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 07:09:04 AM EST
    Good morning y'all. Thought I'd find you conservatives drawn like moths to a flame to anything Ted Kennedy said. As it's early, please don't hurl personal insults but I'm going to try to throw my two cents in defending what he said, not the man. First, I'm not going to defend TK from any judgments you make about his actions and personal morals. Being from Mass I could probably curl a few hairs with tales I've heard, not to mention his dad's moral ambiguity. I'm also not going to get off track and compare your judgment of him with your lack of judgment of people you support, plenty of whom have dismal records of personal behavior rivaling Ted's. That said, I don't believe any of you care about Mary Jo - the impression your comments give is that you are gleefully using her name to prove that you know the details of Chappaquiddik and that the left has no claim to moral superiority. That might not be true, but that's how this torrent of facts spewed across the comment page about something he said and the ultimate point of even the comments that started out with a quote, etc. HOWEVER, Ted's Senate career has been extremely beneficial to those who are struggling to live decent lives and to the State of Mass itself, so I have voted for him to retain his senate seat. His political thinking also reflects the progressive ideal that I support and I agree with everything he says in this comment. I feel that the democrats went wrong when Regan got elected and we panicked, choosing a platform aimed at bringing back the "Reagan democrats." Social progress has always been resisted by the Status Quo, which includes current governments who have a stake in retaining power as it stands. However looking back on social progress made since the founding of this country it seems that those who resisted were on the wrong side. They include: Those on the conservative side of the American Revolution Those on the conservative side of allowing non-landowners, non-whites and women to vote. Those on the conservative side of segregation and civil rights I could go on - but you get my point. I've reached my opinions not by birthright or influence but from extensive reading, education and interest in historical and current events both in the states and throughout the world. I therefore don't feel brainwashed as I can logically support all of the conclusions I come to. I wish I could say the same of most conservative thinking which I think is regressive, not "going back to the good old days" because there really weren't any. I realize that I have an idealistic vision (John Lennon's "Imagine" playing softly in the background)for my country, the basis of which is founded on the reality of government protecting workers and citizens in general from the punative excesses of capitalism and ensuring they are justly rewarded for their labor by being made a partner in the wealth of this country. While economic policies should allow corporations to operate profitably and encourage small business growth, government should regulate rampant profiteering and stop trying to butt into my life with laws justified by "taxpayer morality" AND ESPECIALLY MY BODY inside of which any thing I create grows. Whew! So, God bless Mary Jo and God help Ted, whoever and whatever God is. If there's a judgment in the afterlife, good luck to Teddy (And G.W., and Rumsfeld, and Osama and Saddam). They're going to need it.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 07:16:45 AM EST
    Check out Benjamin Wittes' piece in the Jan/Feb Atlantic Monthly, arguing the Dem party should let Roe die. Wittes argues that because the vast majority of Americans support some form of abortion, Dems have the upper hand politically, and so they should take the fight out of the courts and put it back into the hands of the People. As I understand it, he's implying that by letting Roe and the "constitutional right" to abortion die, wingers, no longer constrained by Roe, would be in the position of having to either abandon the pro-life constituency altogether, or appease it by proposing restrictive abortion laws which the majority oppose. Wittes contends that Dems spend exhorbitant energy, mostly on fillibusters of W's nominees and likely SCOTUS nominees in the near future, championing a "constutitional right" that in reality is a creation of a weak opinion resting on dubious analysis. Instead, he argues, since Dems have the general backing of the majority on the issue, they should let Roe die and thereby force the uber-right, free of Roe, to demand strict anti-abortion laws. Their reps would no longer be able to simply point their fingers at Roe as the problem. They'd either have to abandon the anti-abortion crowd, or risk backlash from the majority at the polls. Anyway, I agree with Wittes to the extent he's saying Dems waste time, money and political capital defending abortion, an issue that does not belong on the top of the agenda, IMHO. So, I disagree with Kennedy's proposal the left keep the constitutional right to abortion on the front burner as much as I would disagree with the contention "parental rights" are mentioned in the constitution.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#16)
    by desertswine on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 07:47:26 AM EST
    Hmmm... Kennedy - regretably responsible for the death of a young woman following a drinking party. Bush - gleefully responsible for the deaths of 100,000+ Iraqis and 1500 Americans in the pursuit of corporate profit.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 07:53:14 AM EST
    "Americans vote for Conservatives & Neoconservatives and they have no idea what it is they are voting for." Ah yes, the "the voters are just too stupid to know what they are voting for" argument. No doubt a real winner in college campus coffee houses, but as of yet unproven to turn a single vote on election day. Not everyone agrees that the liberal elite or the "progressives" have the answer, and calling them stupid for disagreeing is about the best the self-anointed "enlightened" can come up with. Bravo. This mindset is part of the problem, not part of the solution. As for the argument that too many of these people can't explain the position of the party or policy they votedin favor of: I live in suburban Maryland and the very same thing can be said about the overwhelmingly liberal Democrat voters here. Reading the Letters to the Editor in the local papers is like reading Kennedy's assinine statements that launched this thread: "I don't get it, every one agrees with us, but we just keep losing elections." "Our polices are better, but I can't say why." Blah blah blah. Maybe Teddy should throw his hat into the ring for DNC chair. Then he would have to put up or shut up.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#19)
    by glanton on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 08:18:09 AM EST
    mfox: that's probably the best post I've seen on here in weeks. of course, don't expect a substantive response from the usual suspects on this site, but one can always dream....

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 08:20:03 AM EST
    In May 2000, a two-page police report pertaining to a fatal accident that had taken place near Midland, Texas, in 1963 was made public. It contained the information that 17-year-old Laura Welch had run a stop sign, causing the death of the sole occupant of the vehicle hers had struck. According to that report, the future First Lady had been driving her Chevrolet sedan on a clear night shortly after 8 p.m. on 6 November 1963 when she entered an intersection without heeding the stop sign and there collided with the Corvair sedan driven by 17-year-old Michael Douglas. Also in the car with Laura Welch was a passenger, 17-year-old Judy DykeslinK If Kennedy is always fair game, why isn't this always dragged up.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#21)
    by chris on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 08:43:33 AM EST
    For the more conservative responders to this post: as always, you argue that we are calling voters stupid by pointing out that a majority vote against their interests. Nobody said they were stupid; it was said that they are misinformed. And as polls have shown, they are. When polls show that a majority of Bush voters believe that Saddam Hussein was directly involved with 9/11, that he had a direct connection to bin Laden, that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US, and that they are seriously misinformed about just about every major issue of the War we are in and are bombarded with misinformation about every social program that this country provides, yes, the voting public is misinformed. You trying to reframe the statement only go on to try to misinform the rest of us. It's a tactic the true believers on the right have perfected to a "T".

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 08:48:41 AM EST
    Thanks, Glanton. I felt good about it but know that a lot of folks call it crazy talk. I thought to compare Kennedy to Laura Bush, but the truth is that TK was (and still is, I hate to admit) a lecherous drunk which facts contributed considerably to Mary Jo's death. (The fact that she was drunk and horny too is irrelevant, as she didn't happen to be driving). Laura Bush was just a bad driver. Amusingly (in the most ironic way), a "regular" person in Mass and Texas convicted for these respective offenses could conceivably end up doing the same amount of time. However, they, like the rest of us, get what they (or their families) pay for in terms of justice. Which leads to an interesting visual which I apologize in advance for sharing... of Ted and Laura on the Cell Block with Charles Grainer standing guard...

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#23)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 08:59:34 AM EST
    Well, of course the other fact to remember was that MJK was in an ACCIDENT, while the tens of thousands of people in Iraq that have died for the big lie were MURDERED. Also, to the wingnuts, lets get a Fear Factor going to reproduce the condition of the Kennedy crash and see who, after a night of partying, can flip a car off a bridge, upside down, in water and rescue a 120 pound manikin from the car without panicking. In less than 4 minutes. If you don't succeed, you do 5-10 for manslaughter. You're so f***ing smart.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#24)
    by Darryl Pearce on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 09:02:54 AM EST
    My apologies, PPJ & Cliff. It's hard to stay on topic when so many people have so many grudges (for example, we only have the administration's version of what happened (concerning the run-up to invasion/occupation of Iraq), and they will keep secrets from us. In fact, Bush lied to reporters and his own family to make his Thanksgiving Day visit to the Baghdad airport.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#25)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 10:41:25 AM EST
    First, I'm not going to defend TK from any judgments you make about his actions and personal morals [snip] HOWEVER, Ted's Senate career has been extremely beneficial to those who are struggling to live decent lives and to the State of Mass itself, so I have voted for him to retain his senate seat. Witness the standard response from Mass residents: "I know he's a degenerate, but he's good to me and mine." D'ja ever think maybe you could vote for someone else who maybe isn't a degenerate and yet would also be good to you?

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 10:51:38 AM EST
    D'ja ever think maybe you could vote for someone else who maybe isn't a degenerate and yet would also be good to you?
    This is the question I have posed to Bush supporters.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#27)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 10:57:08 AM EST
    TK is the subject here but that's a fair question, kdog.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#28)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:08:28 AM EST
    "The majority vote against them because of what they do, not what they say" Right. And I suppose it's some fluke that the Democrats had the support of 90% of the country while they passed their signature achievements. Because, after all, people hate everything Democrats do. Could Doctor Ace be any dumber?

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#29)
    by glanton on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:17:41 AM EST
    he isn't dumb. just a partisan tool.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:24:01 AM EST
    Che' I liked the 'fear factor' analogy... But of course at the end, the contestants would be required to go home for about 12 hours & think up some good excuses just in case...

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:39:37 AM EST
    Cliff - Original. Save some for the carp and the bullheads. That must be some check you send.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:49:47 AM EST
    The old question of if and how personal morality and behavior affect one's ability to enact legislation. On the surface it doesn't seem to, as if we scratch n' sniff the surface lightly of many of our nations past and present leaders we get a nasty stench. I personally think that alcoholics (you're always one, even if you don't drink, right?) shouldn't be elected to high public office and that a blowjob in the oval office isn't as bad as dealing drugs to fund an illegal war. I won't even touch Marion Barry! As long as I'm not a waitress at the Harvard Faculty Club and Ted enacts excellent legislation and shares my vision of the future (although I'm sure his vision includes a lot more single malt) I don't care what he does. Similarly, I don't care if John Ashcroft goes to church 18 times a day and never touched drink or drug. He's an incompetent schmuck in my book and wouldn't get my vote for public office even if he squeaked when he walked.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 11:50:20 AM EST
    PPJ when a politician you support is a hypocrite the rationalization begins. Even more frustrating is a statement like the one you made: Had he not been a Kennedy it is likely he would have served some jail time. Well if Dubya wasn't a Bush he may have done some time for his drunken driving episodes or his cocaine possessions, the rich and powerful hardly ever suffer the full consequences of breaking the law. If Dubya wasn't a Bush he probably wouldn't be president, it's not like he made his own way in the political world. Oh and before you accuse me of wanting to give Ted K. a pass on his youthful irresponsibilities (like Dubya got), I don't, let a prosecutor reopen the case. You know that Ted Kennedy is not a national force in the political world and still you can't resist an opportunity to sling mud. Make an argument on the merits or lack there of regarding his statements. It's like those who can't let go of the Clinton scandal now that he's out of office, who cares except for you that can't except he won the presidency twice. (even I have accepted that it's Dubya for the next four years) I saw a good bumber sticker that says something relevant to Clinton's sexual discretions "Clinton may have lied but at least no one died". I don't think this can be said for the current resident of the White House.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 12:30:37 PM EST
    mww writes - "Well if Dubya wasn't a Bush he may have done some time for his drunken driving episodes or his cocaine possessions,..." First, you have absolutely no evidence that he ever possessed or used cocaine. But, if I am wrong, I would appreciate a link to a reliable news source. They would be anyone beyond tabloids, blogs, books that the publisher withdrew from circulation and CBS News. Bush has been arrested one time for DWI. It is extremely unikely that he would have served anytime, even if his name was Jones, first offense, no injuries, etc. He has admitted that he drank, and sometimes heavily. He has quit. I don't know your definition of "national force," but everything Kennedy says gets repeated/carried by the MSM ad nauseam. You also write, "Clinton may have lied but at least no one died"." I would remind you that 20 plus children and adults died at Waco because of his loss of control of his AG, plus we have Somalia. You might also want to count the dead in the asprin factory he hit with cruise missiles on the eve of the Senate's impeachment hearings. Che - Death when DWI is a factor is called vehicular homicde. Real people go to real jails. mfox writes - "I'm also not going to get off track and compare your judgment of him (Kennedy) with your lack of judgment of people you support..." Huh? It is laughable for you to try and link Laura Bush's accident and Kennedy's. First, she didn't even know Bush. The accident was investigated immediately, not 12 plus later as in Kennedy's, and there was no booze involved. BTW - The old "I'm not goona do it" ploy doesn't work. You keep on taking these "high moral positions," but the truth shines through.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#36)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 12:53:52 PM EST
    It is laughable for you to try and link Laura Bush's accident and Kennedy's. First, she didn't even know Bush. huh? The accident was investigated immediately, not 12 plus later as in Kennedy's, and there was no booze involved. Both accidents resulted in people dead, neither Kennedy nor Laura Bush were even punished, as far as I know.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:34:15 PM EST
    I honestly do not know why Edward Kennedy inspires such fiery invective from people. Kennedy has served over 40 years in the Senate at the behest of the people of Massachusetts. Perhaps the People of Massachusetts are constitutionally permitted to elect whomever they desire for public office. So are the American people. Between George Bush and Dick Cheney there are three DUI convictions. What does it say? Who the hell knows? Someone once said the people get the public officials they deserve. Regardless, Kennedy is right. Unless we are willing to cede all the triumphs of the Progressive Era and conclude it was all just wishful thinking, as the 8-hour day, workers rights, voter's rights, and our civil liberties fade into oblivion, then a progressive agenda is still something to fight for. As the Democratic party dusts itself off and moves on, not bringing up such a thing would be downright sinful for the most liberal Senator in Congress. Right?

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 01:42:20 PM EST
    "...Kerry's loss also showed that Democrats must.... Yada yada yada They still just dont get it! It’s the candidate stupid!

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 02:11:33 PM EST
    PPJ writes:
    mfox writes - "I'm also not going to get off track and compare your judgment of him (Kennedy) with your lack of judgment of people you support..." Huh? It is laughable for you to try and link Laura Bush's accident and Kennedy's. First, she didn't even know Bush. The accident was investigated immediately, not 12 plus later as in Kennedy's, and there was no booze involved.
    Re: your first quoted paragraph. Let the politician who is without sin cast the first stone. I was thinking of the cries of "no fair"! when Bush's Viet Nam era service came up, when cries of "it happened 30 years ago - leave him alone" reverberated throughout the threads of TL. Were you addressing the second quote to me? I don't remember making that link, except for the general idea that rich people get away with stuff. I also want to say, PPJ, that I am disappointed that in the whole statement I made about my ideals and visions of this country's future, you zoned in on the aside that started with "not to get off track". I feel that many of the conservative arguments made on TL are constructed in the same knee-jerk, reactionary way. I'd like to know what your ideal country is and what you think about mine.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#40)
    by glanton on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 02:15:39 PM EST
    mfox: I told you not to expect too much in the way of a response.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#41)
    by desertswine on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 02:20:48 PM EST
    Obelus is correct, a progessive agenda is indeed something worth fighting for unless you care to turn back time a hundred years or so. I find it profound that Kennedy has lost three brothers in the service of America.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 02:25:15 PM EST
    "They still just dont get it! It’s the candidate stupid!" HILARIOUS. It's the vote fraud. The largest act of vote fraud in US history, in fact. We CAUGHT Triad (felony) changing the vote totals in the Ohio tabulators. We CAUGHT Sproul & Associates registering Dem voters nationwide, and then (felony) tearing them up. We have on record the twelve hour waits in line to vote (22 hours in at least one precinct). The affidavits go on and on. Stolen elections will NOT cover up the blood. Kerry beat Bush by landslide. A sizeable portion of the American public no longer accept this gov't at legal. You might as well get used to it, wingers. "Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice: won't get fooled again." Persons wanting to send emails supporting WAR CRIMES TRIALS for Rumsfeld, Sanchez, Tenet, and others should go to Center for Constitutional Rights, fill in the few blanks, and click send (the email is in English and German). There are many ways to punish TREASON. --

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 02:56:31 PM EST
    LoL, Glanton. They've got to come up with better arguments - otherwise we're all the more cupable for losing elections! Sometimes I feel like I'm in the ring throwing punches at some fool dancing around me sticking her tongue out, feeling like "If I could just land one..."

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 02:59:00 PM EST
    LoL - Culpable! (We were cupable already).

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 03:12:50 PM EST
    Could I be dumber, Scar? Sure, but I don't vote Democrat. Glanton calls me a "partisan tool", but I remember the pasting Glanton got from a poster named "Sarcastic..." Glanton, maybe you could put a paper bag over your head, like that little cat in the Warner Bros. cartoons. "...I'm so ashamed..." Har!

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 03:14:34 PM EST
    Paul, you oughta be careful whom you accuse of treason.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 04:44:18 PM EST
    While economic policies should allow corporations to operate profitably and encourage small business growth, government should regulate rampant profiteering and stop trying to butt into my life with laws justified by "taxpayer morality"... So you want the government to decide how much money a company should be able to make? Who would define "rampant profiteering?" Sounds like you want the gov to butt out of your life, yet you want it to butt into the pocketbook of my small business.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 05:51:31 PM EST
    mfox - My ideal country is the USA, although I would state that we are not perfect. And unlike you, I would defend the country. Period. Right or wrong. Why? Because I figure we can fix our problems. You see, I trust our system, and the american people. You don't. You reserve the right to .... complain... not serve??? That's hubris. And you confused me with your: "First, I'm not going to defend TK from any judgments...." followed by "..."HOWEVER, Ted's Senate career has been extremely beneficial to those"......"His political thinking also reflects the progressive ideal that I support and I agree with everything he says in this comment.." If that isn't a "defense" I have never read one. And actually, the Demos were the ones who opened up the Vietnam issue with their TANG comments. That was stupid, becase it was a definite vulnerable area for Kerry, because of his actions after he was back in the US. I mean, you can forget about the Swift Boats, etc., it was this issue that Kerry was demonstratably guilty on, and it cost him. As far as rich people getting away with things, Laura Bush was not rich. Remember, she was 17 when the accident occurred. I'm guessing you knew that, so your attempt to bring her into the discussion was just a diversionary move. Didn't work. And BTW - I find your arguments shallow. You appear to have very little experience in the real world, and I find a lot of claims and few links. Other than that, hugs and hugs.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 05:53:24 PM EST
    glanton - Welcome back. I see you are still demoing your lack of historical information and knowledge. BTW - How was vacation?

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 05:53:57 PM EST
    Above by me.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimcee on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 06:23:33 PM EST
    Chris, Did you really say... "...Righties aren't stupid just ignorant"? Perhaps you could "redeem" them with your wit. Tough sell there fella. That's not going to play well in working-class America, replace one insult with another, sounds to me like a bad plan. Where's the positive winning zeitgeist in that scheme? The Left needs to be POSITIVE not negative. They need to fall back, regroup and replan their new strategy for the future. They really need to jetison the Ted Kennedy types and move towards more modern candidates. Obama is a good start. As long as Mr. Kennedy can breath he will be a Senator but he has turned into the crazy uncle who lives in the attic and this hurts the Democracts more than anything the GOP can do to them. Time to modernize for the Dems.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 06:27:11 PM EST
    Amazing. Hello, Laura Bush is not an elected official and Teddy is. I would never have held Kitty Dukakis against Mike because WE WERENT ELECTING HER. Strangly enough I did give Clinton credit for Hillary, but perhaps that is b/c I married a h*lluva woman too. -C

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#53)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 06:43:34 PM EST
    Amazing. Hello, Laura Bush is not an elected official and Teddy is.
    Thanks for the glimpse into the obvious. Now are you implying that they should be held to differnt standards, That its ok for LB not to get punished but tk should be. Or did you just miss the point completely.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#54)
    by glanton on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 07:02:32 PM EST
    Jim, Thanks for asking, vacation was great, saw people I haven't seen in a long time. Back to the grindstone... My only point on this thread so far has been to praise mfox's evenhanded, fair, intelligent post, and to caution him/her (?) not to expect anyone sympathetic to GOP cause to address anything really contained in that post. And so far I've been proven right, I might add.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 08:20:40 PM EST
    The Democrats HAVE a future? Yeah, when cars float.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#56)
    by k ols on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 12:42:04 AM EST
    I pretty much agree with mfox & Chris. The only thing I would add is I thing the Dems are a bit too far left of main stream America on some moral/social issues. They tend to turn what should be side issues into a broiling mainstream issue that causes them to lose elections. The need to stay focused on the main issues and not let the Repugs side track them into lesser side issues where they can be demonized. Save those side issue battles for in between the presidential elections. The problem with most of the Repugs is they just aren't paying attention and believe what the SCLM stations like Fox tell them. They truly have uninquisitive minds. They wouldn't recognize the truth if it bit them. They are too busy making excuses for their (not my) president. I will never accept Bush as my president. He did not win & they won't admit it. The courts & the media are in the hands of the Repugs. Kerry was right, this administration is a bunch of corrupt liars. Remember him saying something to that affect early on and then retracting it because it was too honest?

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 02:27:20 AM EST
    Posted by Doctor Ace at January 13, 2005 04:14 PM "Paul, you oughta be careful whom you accuse of treason." More of your sort's threats. Careful this, p*ndejo. --

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#58)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:38:13 AM EST
    You have to have,as the saying goes,"brains to be dangerous",and, be dangerous to be treasonous,ipso facto;Ace is not treasonous.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 01:32:30 PM EST
    Kerry said LOTS of things - most of them eminently forgetable. However the one thing he most definitely did NOT say is the one thing ALL liberals wanted most to hear: that this administration is a snake's nest of LIARS. Sorry, but Kerry never had the balls to call Bush, or anyone else for that matter, a liar. And he is now merely a historical footnote accordingly.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 02:37:45 PM EST
    For those of you whom responded to me: I am not under the illusion that Conservative Americans would instantly recant their heavily invested belief sets if they were to suddenly have access to unbiased information. Thus my comments about Ego.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#61)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 03:23:01 PM EST
    I say take one step to the right and you’ll all be back where you started; scrapping with the republicans over that middle 5%.

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 03:28:49 PM EST
    Ted Kennedy never sold arms to rightwing deathsquads, like Bush sr., never sold equipment to Hussein like Cheney did, never made profitable peace with terrorist/American murderer Kadafi like Bush did, never bombed millions of innocent people like Kissinger, never abetted deathsquads like Negroponte, never lied to the UN and the world like Powell did (or tried to cover up My Lai). The $R Sociopath Party has a lot to answer for. Ted Kennedy is going to be all right, by comparison alone. --

    Re: Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Futur (none / 0) (#63)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 03:38:10 PM EST
    Lavocat, The Dems will be back. Looky here!

    Edward Kennedy Speaks Out on Democrats' Future | 61 comments (61 topical)