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Jail Food : A Major Deterrent

The LA Times has a long article on jail food. If the thought of doing time doesn't seem like a big deal to you, it might after you read this. County jails, where people go for more minor crimes, may be the worst, although maximum security is no picnic either.

One problem is the budget. California's county jails allot $2.25 per day per inmate. The state prison is $2.45 and the feds fork over $2.78).

Think about eating something that is made in batches for 17,000, as do the inmates in LA county jails.

[the] inmate crew stirred 100-gallon kettles of carrots and beans with paddles big enough to row a boat. Although it was late morning, the vegetables were for dinner, the jail's only hot meal.

....In the kitchen, inmate laborers washed the remains of instant mashed potatoes from bathtub-size kettles. Pans of the potatoes were stocked in walk-in "quick chill" refrigerators. Quick chilling allows the prison to start meals two days in advance. The food is cooked, then "blast cooled" in the refrigerators to within a few degrees of freezing. On serving day, it is reheated.

This reaction from an inmate doing life is probably typical:

"If I don't eat, I don't survive, but it's not like I look forward to it," he said. "After so many years you get immune to it. You just swallow."

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    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#1)
    by bad Jim on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 11:28:07 PM EST
    Bland food has been an issue in Orange County jails, too. What's the point of feeding instant mashed potatoes to a Californian population whose default cuisine is Mexican? Feed 'em beans & salsa! (The prisoners quoted in the article were unanimously appreciative of the burritos.) Seriously, Mexican food is healthy, nutritious, tasty and cheap. There shouldn't be a problem here for anyone whose intentions aren't primarily punitive.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 01:33:30 AM EST
    I don't think Bad Jim Gets it? The fact is most people in the jail system are not Mexican, about 1/3 are young white guy's mostly for drugs, age 18-25, some people think you must do "some bad crime to go to jail" most people that make up 1/5 are in jail for DUI And DMV Violation and all kinds of non crime transgression against political public Order. Food is used as a weapon. But it is traditional to make people work off fines by working 24-7 in the jail system, many people get what is called money on your book, that allows people to buy food.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#3)
    by bad Jim on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 02:07:35 AM EST
    The proportion of Latinos in Southern California getting locked up is probably better than 33% these days. Apart from that, though, a great many of us Anglos down here would prefer frijoles to potatoes and salsa to ketchup.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 04:25:51 AM EST
    WHO CARES what they eat??? As long as it is nutritional. They've commited a crime! They will eat what the jail serves.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#5)
    by anon55 on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 06:29:57 AM EST
    Ah, spoken like a true compassionate conservative. As the California law states, jail is punishment. It's not a place you go to be punished, being there is the punishment. (If you don't think that's vindictive enough, try serving a year in a county lock-up, even with tasty food.) God save us from those who want to turn every jail cell into a mini Abu Ghraib.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 07:05:19 AM EST
    Todd, many of those in county jails are awaiting trial --they haven't made bond, that's why they are there. So no, they haven't committed a crime, they are merely charged with one. And, they are presumed innocent.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#9)
    by Aaron on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 07:40:00 AM EST
    Mr. Harangue - that was quite the non-sequitur. You are stating that the mere fact that a private individual raises the issue of the treatment of prisoners, some of whom have yet to be convicted of a crime, is "why the Democrats are dead as a national party"? How does that "logic" work, pray tell?

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 08:24:16 AM EST
    deleted, troll commenter banned.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 08:25:29 AM EST
    That this topic is even deemed worthy of a discussion is why the Democrats are dead as a national party. [remainder deleted, troll trying to redirect the thread to another topic, he's been banned, don't bother responding. Off topic comments will be deleted.]

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 09:21:36 AM EST
    Thanks for banning the trolls quickly. It gets a little tiring and stressful having to deal with people who never had a left or progressive impulse in their life. Probably not as bad as jail food, but nonetheless damaging to quality of life. Won't be seeing you, Mr. Harang. If the phone's not ringing, that's me not calling.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#11)
    by wishful on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 09:34:10 AM EST
    Actually, we don't need the trolls actual comments. They are so predictable that we could accurately guess their load of crap spewing.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 09:35:09 AM EST
    Well, I used to be a cop and I have been a deputy as well. The food isn't intolerable. Most of my views are extreme left, however; I do have a few that are conservative views - I guess this is one of them! We spend way too much money on 'rehabilitation' to start with in my humble opinion... So they're not staying at the Hilton, why should they expect the food to be as such? Besides, you try cooking for 17,000 people!

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#13)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 09:38:48 AM EST
    Todd, Could you give examples of some of your left leaning views? I get the feeling that law enforcement folks are generally conservative.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 10:00:27 AM EST
    Healthcare & education should both be socialized. I am against abortion but it's the woman's choice - she's the one that has to deal with the reality of what she's done. Marjuanna should be legalized. I don't support the gay marriage initive - for one reason: we are trying to accomplish something that goes against the core of the majority of peoples' religion. Don't misunderstand me - I am gay - I think we should have a federal law for civil unions but I could really care less about the word "marriage" being in any law! I just want the benefits that are associated with it but the gay community is basically trying to go against peoples' faith and it won't work. You can't fight that. Just look at what it has done so far - it basically re-elected the shrub! I think there should be a very clear line between church and state too. Just a few topics. I know this was off-topic but I was asked!

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 10:06:48 AM EST
    Please, keep the thread on topic. Off-comment topics will be deleted.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 10:49:37 AM EST
    Appreciate your comments and explanation of your views, Todd. A couple of observations: first, I don't think reasonably palatable and nutritional food is rehabilitative in nature. Unless you are talking about training inmates to cook, but stirring buckets of carrots with boat oars is not likely to translate into haute causine jobs or even fast food work, so I have my doubts about the whole premise. Second, I think there is evidence that rehabilitation done well and right is very cost effective. Aside from all the moral and value considerations, why not just agree to agree on keeping our long term incarceration costs down. I have some private sector contract ideas about rehabilitation that I haven't seen anywhere. Hope I am paying attention on the day when a rehab thread opens. I get the feeling that talk left wants us to stay on topic.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#17)
    by clio on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 11:02:26 AM EST
    On of the really sad things about institutional food is that it doesn't have to be as bad as it is. Usually the raw ingredients, even if inexpensive, are good to excellent (unless corruption is involved) because big institutions order in such large quantities that not only do they get bulk pricing, but several times weekly to daily deliveries. To see all those expensive ingredients ruined would make any cook weep. And it doesn't have to be that way! Prep doesn't have to involve knives and sharp edges so fresh produce isn't a no-no, and it's often cheaper than frozen/canned. Baking is not only good for the soul, it's an employment skill, and the ingredients for that are dirt cheap. Takes time, too, which inmates need to have filled. Etc., etc. Most prison systems do not use the knowledge and skills of institutional dietitians, let alone food industry and university food science program experts. Solutions, yea, verily, even savings, are out there. It's just that nobody is looking for them.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 11:49:38 AM EST
    How about something about MS-13? How many Are in any jails in this state, in fact food is sent to the terrorists, and if the gangs need something inside prison, well can we say more. Love TalkLeft.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 03:25:47 PM EST
    Inexpensive food does not have to be torture to eat.They can learn how to prepare it properly. Imagine living in these places for years. And thanks to the person who said many in jails have only been charged with a crime..they are innocent until proven guilty. If they food is part of "punishment" then they are being punished before they are convicted of a crime. Many countries use starvation as punishment and torture in their prisons. The neo-Nazi,law and order types here would love to do the same thing. Just don't be accused or falsely convicted.....

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#20)
    by cp on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 04:26:24 PM EST
    clearly, these people have never dined in a military mess hall. sorry, as long as the diet is nutritious and the amount sufficient to meet daily requirements, this is way down the priority list for penal reform. not to be too harsh, but i suspect that for a fair number of prisoners, this may well be the first time in their lives that they've eaten consistently, and not junk food. yes, i am aware that many are there awaiting trial, not having been convicted. however, that is the end result of multiple issues, that has nothing to do with either the penal system or the food. fix the schools, alleviate poverty and ignorance, and the ripple effect will probably eliminate prison food as an issue.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 04:44:07 PM EST
    clearly, these people have never dined in a military mess hall.
    Personally I always liked eating in the mess hall. The breakfast were usually enough food fit for a king. But being 18 years old and broke, any food probably would of tasted great.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 10:28:07 PM EST
    Only democrats will think that eating carrots, potatoes and peas is torture. I am sure your energy is well served in worrying about whether food eaten by inmates are of 2 stars or 3 stars quality. Real people worry about the CRIMES that these people have committed and how to keep society safe from them. Or worry about places (like places hit by the Tsunami) where people may *not* have the luxury about how BORING it is to have carrots and potatoes for every meal.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#23)
    by clio on Mon Jan 10, 2005 at 08:12:04 AM EST
    ...Only democrats will think that eating carrots, potatoes and peas is torture... You would be appalled, no matter what your political affiliation, to see the quality food which is delivered to institutions, and what it becomes by the time it is put on the table. No vegetable can survive being boiled too long, and then placed on a steam table to lose the last vestiges of color, nutrients, and flavor. No meat survives when it has been high heat roasted, sliced thin, and left to dry so the proteins harden to a substance that may be bulletproof. (I haven't tried it) As for the cereal grains...well, there is no excuse. This is not a matter of hunger, crime, punishment or even nutrition. It's about waste. Many institutions, prisons and the odd VA among them, buy good food. They pay top dollar for it. Then they turn it into garbage. If you're going to serve swill* it's cheaper to start with it, not make it from premium ingredients. *Swill, BTW, can be both safe and nutritious. It can also be fairly palatable, although that requires more processing. But it's made from offal so it's cheaper.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 10, 2005 at 10:06:00 AM EST
    I am more than happy to see the democrats can *own* the prisoner food issue and try to ride that to the white house and retake both chambers in 08. Republicans will be delighted too. Wow, a new platform for the democrats: "We think that the prison food preparers, abate giving good ingredients, just do not have the culinary skills to bring out most in the food. So we propose to spend millions of dollars and hire the Iron Chefs to train a corp of top chefs to cook for murders, rapists and the like everyday. The culinary arts will certainly move the souls of these criminals and reform them in no time!!"

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 10, 2005 at 01:24:07 PM EST
    for murders, rapists
    I wish murderers and rapists were the only ones in jail. I have a friend doing 2 years, never hurt a fly. Wake up, anonymous poster.

    Re: Jail Food : A Major Deterrent (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 18, 2005 at 06:11:18 PM EST
    You forget regardless they are still human and guess what we all have our God in some form or another to give in account to. Guilty or not he without sin cast the first stone.